Mechanics that you want

[Refa]

Hand Axes and Javelins were awful in FE4 because they weighed waaaaaay too much and had terrible might relative to any other weapon you had available and were relatively balanced in FE12 because they had like 3-4 might.

I liked when they were awful, but FE12 probably balanced it better.

Ranged weapons were also limited in FE4, and I don't think anyone wants FE4's Wt system to return.

That system was used in every FE game until FE5, it's not some failing on FE4's part. And it did return, in FE11.

[Othin]

That system was used in every FE game until FE5, it's not some failing on FE4's part. And it did return, in FE11.

I was not calling it a failing exclusive to FE4. I am aware that it was used in FE1/2/3, but that's not at all relevant. Certainly, the Wt changes were far more dramatic in FE4 than in the earlier games... but looking back, in FE3, Javelins (but not Hand Axes, oddly enough) had a Wt of 20, serving that precise purpose. Interesting.

And no, it did not return in FE11.

[Thor Odinson]

11 was the same str-based deduction like in Tellius. 12 is weightless.

[Lord Glenn]

I'm sure it's been suggested at least once already (given the thread's length), but the thing that makes the most sense to me, both from a physical world standpoint and from a gameplay standpoint, would be to make Hand Axes/Javelins/etc. slightly weaker than their Iron counterparts (they're made for *throwing*, not for close-quarters combat), keep their weights physically reasonable, and hard code a property that forces them to only have one attack like what they did for Eclipse when they're thrown.

This way, they're not weighing a unit down to oblivion just for the sake of lowering the chance of doubling with the weapon (which doesn't physically make loads of sense - I mean, they're tough to throw, yes, but if we're taking weight solely as how heavy a weapon is, why should something that needs to be thrown and is trying to hit a target from a distance weigh more than a standard lance?), they're not a be-all and end-all weapon for any situation since they don't deal wonderful damage and are thus situational only, and they mirror the fact that they're a thrown weapon and it's kinda hard to throw a weapon more than once without picking it back up. Granted, if you're defending with the Javelin or attacking at close range, you're not going to be throwing it, so doubling still makes sense. But, given the weapon's nature as primarily ranged, on top of low durability, a hit and/or damage penalty when attacking at Range 1 also seems like a fair addition to balance that back out.

This way, Javelins/Hand Axes/etc. can fulfill their main objective - attacking a unit from a distance without fear of reprisal - without throwing weapon balance all over the place.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Lord Glenn

[Othin]

Actually, there's another way. If the weapon is designed to only be suitable as a thrown weapon, rather than in melee, it would justify making the weapons range 2 only instead of range 1-2, which would balance them out quite well.

You've already guessed which game I'm borrowing this idea from, I'm sure.

[arvilino]

I'm sure it's been suggested at least once already (given the thread's length), but the thing that makes the most sense to me, both from a physical world standpoint and from a gameplay standpoint, would be to make Hand Axes/Javelins/etc. slightly weaker than their Iron counterparts (they're made for *throwing*, not for close-quarters combat), keep their weights physically reasonable, and hard code a property that forces them to only have one attack like what they did for Eclipse when they're thrown.

Apart from the one attack thing, FE12 does that to Handaxes/Javelins (they both have about half the might iron weapons do) and it does work out quite well. Archers/Snipers/Hunter/Horsement are very valuable units due to great 2 range compared to other classes.

[dondon151]

I don't like the idea of a 2-range lock because it deprives 1-2 range weapons of one of their most valuable purposes: to counter everything for some damage so that they're easier to finish off on the subsequent player phase. For that same reason, I also dislike lowered accuracy because it just really sucks when you miss.

[Paperblade]

Archers actually aren't that good because their bases are bad relative to Hunters (why the fuck is their stat advantage having more Def/Res?), have 1 less move for no reason, and their growths aren't enough better to compensate (oh boy like 5% Speed). The other 3 are good though.

Ranged weapons were also limited in FE4, and I don't think anyone wants FE4's Wt system to return.

That has nothing to do with them being terrible. No one wanted to actually use a Javelin or Hand Axe because it gimped their offense by like 6-8 attack (compared to just Steel which isn't even good considering the abundance of crazy shit in FE4 due to repair, so it's more like anywhere from to 10-20) and shot their chance of doubling non-axe users. Iron Swords were also rare, but their rarity isn't why no one used them.

[Dark Sage]

The best type of Jeigan I think is a Sniper Jeigan. He can have decent base stats and utility due to effectiveness against fliers and can be really helpful in harder modes but this way, his impact is more limited since he lacks a horse and is locked to 2-range. He can still have utility later on for chipping.

Of course since it's been revealed through screens that the Jeigan is a Paladin/Great Knight, it doesn't really matter, but it would be nice if future games did this.

On the subject of javelins/handaxes, I always found it odd how you could double with them since they're gone when you throw them. FE9/10 had the Javelin phase back in the unit's hand and the handaxe function like a boomerang, but this was extremely laughable really.

At this point, it's tempting to say screw realism and just go with FE12's handaxes/javelins.

[Anouleth]

The best type of Jeigan I think is a Sniper Jeigan. He can have decent base stats and utility due to effectiveness against fliers and can be really helpful in harder modes but this way, his impact is more limited since he lacks a horse and is locked to 2-range. He can still have utility later on for chipping.

Or General.

[dondon151]

I think a Horseman/NT unit in the Jagen archetype would also be good. A little more powerful than Sniper, but still much more fitting to a support role in many aspects (it would probably help if he couldn't use swords).

[Refa]

I want a Dragon Knight Jeigan, but that would be so overpowered.

[General Banzai]

General would be the best since it nerfs the Jeigan but does not bastardize the storyline archetype of the Jeigan as a veteran knight in an official army. Sniper and especially Horseman contradict this.

[Momo]

I wouldn't really say so, Hardin was a mere cavalier but he was still seen as a great warrior.

[Dark Sage]

General would be the best since it nerfs the Jeigan but does not bastardize the storyline archetype of the Jeigan as a veteran knight in an official army. Sniper and especially Horseman contradict this.

How so? Snipers could be seen as knights of sorts, or at least powerful older commanders. It's the same with Horsemen and in fact, Sedgar and Wolf could easily be considered knights in the story. One doesn't necessarily need to be a Paladin or General to count as a Jeigan, just an older authority figure in a position of leadership or seniority in an army.

[bottlegnomes]

Adding on to those, Rath was the commander of what's-his-face's troops and he was a nomad. The only classes that would be a problem in terms of story are classes that are associated with criminals, like bandit, berserker, and thief.

Like other people have brought up, general would probably be best because it would still allow all of the abilities early on, good rescuing, combat, etc, but the low move would make them not particularly useful for LTCs.

[Rothene]

Then Bishop Jeigan's the best...old RELIGIOUS authority figure...he not only guides the wisdom of the Lord, but also his very immortal soul...

[Snowy_One]

I really like the general idea. I also wish that there were simply more maps that one single unit couldn't win. Just making a defend chapter with two defend squares side by side would likely remove any potential solo-attempts from the table for example.

[Anouleth]

We've had Swordmaster and Rogue Jeigans before, so I don't see why a Sniper Jeigan wouldn't work...

[Thor Odinson]

I really like the general idea. I also wish that there were simply more maps that one single unit couldn't win. Just making a defend chapter with two defend squares side by side would likely remove any potential solo-attempts from the table for example.

But soloruns are fun ; n;

Those un-soloable chapters exist in a few games already anyway.

Chapter 20 Ilia, for example. Pissed me off so much. Actually, Echidna herself was doing fine with her 19 res after pure water. Roy is a dumbass and likes to himself killed in two seconds.

...yeah I was attempting a FE6 Ilia Echidna solo.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[Original Alear]

This topic is long, so I'm just gonna make my suggestion. It's not exactly a mechanic, but...pausable enemy phases! It would be more useful on a console where there's no shut system for suspension option, though...

[dondon151]

General would be the best since it nerfs the Jeigan but does not bastardize the storyline archetype of the Jeigan as a veteran knight in an official army. Sniper and especially Horseman contradict this.

Horsemen are no less "veteran knights" than paladins are.

[Anouleth]

This topic is long, so I'm just gonna make my suggestion. It's not exactly a mechanic, but...pausable enemy phases! It would be more useful on a console where there's no shut system for suspension option, though...

Well, in FE11 and FE12 you could skip the entire enemy phase by hitting start, so if you really really needed to suspend right now, you could skip the enemy phase and suspend the game. But it's little options like that which can make the game a lot more fun to play!

Horsemen are no less "veteran knights" than paladins are.

Yes, we've had veteran knights in the class of Horseman multiple times, with Wolf, Sedgar, and Robert. Hayden from FE8 being a veteran knight isn't out of the question either, although we don't really know anything about his past, so we can only guess.

Edited November 25, 2011 by Anouleth

[CrashGordon94]

Even better is that some games let you speed up unit movement by holding the A button, and FE11 and 12 combined this with the phase skips. I agree, it'd be cool to see these both return but what I want to see is the ability to skip animations and level ups with the start button like FE11.

[Refa]

This topic is long, so I'm just gonna make my suggestion. It's not exactly a mechanic, but...pausable enemy phases! It would be more useful on a console where there's no shut system for suspension option, though...

I have never played an FE game and thought "Damn, this enemy phase is taking so long and I would really like to stop playing RIGHT THIS MOMENT". But I haven't played FE10.

I don't see why anyone who's not doing a 0% run would want to skip the level up animation.