Mechanics that you want

[Othin]

No fractions please, I like to keep FE mechanics simple.

Halves have been a part of FE calculations since FE1.

Fifths, however, are stretching it, at least for major statistics. I don't think any of us object to the weird math that goes into defining things like Exp.

[arvilino]

I think a good solution would be fixed Constitution affecting the AS, along with nerfing Mercenary/Hero, Cavalier/Paladin and Dracoknight speed growths and/or bases. Since those classes generally combine mid-high constitution with such a good Speed and Offense that it generally makes them far better than most other units.

[paladin21]

Halves have been a part of FE calculations since FE1.

Fifths, however, are stretching it, at least for major statistics. I don't think any of us object to the weird math that goes into defining things like Exp.

I thought about using half strength, but the result would be similar to that of using ful strength: at the end it'd be all about speed caps. I came upon this by looking at the caps for different classes (mainly for the GBA games), and average final stats for the characters in those classes. It would have been like a minimum +3 bonus to CON (since most characters would reach 15 strength or magic). It would make a Falcoknight be able to use silver swords and killer lances without penalty, but keeping their low CON to be able to rescue and be rescued.

This. I mean, Con basically shits on female characters, since they have lower con and most have lower str (I mean, 4 con female Druid, what is this BS, Niime deserves a 7), so if they can only double with crappy weapons, what's the point? I mean, if a person got good str, they should be able to use the heavier weapons better than a person with less str than them who's of the same size. Or hell, at least reasonable con distribution that doesn't shit on chicks so much. Like, -1 from the guys is reasonable. -3 is not (I'm looking at you, Myrmidon).

When you think that girls usually have higher speed (both growths and caps, at least in GBA, not in DS), being weighted down by the weapon makes things even. That was the reason of adding CON to the FE5, trying to fix FE4's imbalance with weight, while adding two new mechanics to the game: capture and rescue. The problem they faced in FE5 was that rescuing would be neary impossible late game (unless with mounted units), since everyone would've capped CON.

That or the con with a WEXP-like growth on it where there's a gauge and if a character uses a weapon heavier than their con, it adds to their gauge and there's a cap to how much you can gain (not counting statboosters), like C rank gives 0 con, B gives 1, A rank gives 2, and S rank gives 3 with 3 being the max you can gain from this system. That way, if you don't want a certain unit to grow con (Paladins, for example, since they'll need the rescue stat as well) just let them use weapons weighing equal or lower than their con and have them use something heavier once in a while, but if you want, say, a soldier to get more con to use the heavier lances without AS loss, then let them use heavier weapons more and they'll gain the con.

(Credit to Josh and Yeti for the idea)

I don't understand this...

This won't happen, but the visual that came to my head is a GBA swordmaster shaking his head in disapproval, then quickly thrusting the sword into the enemy (instead of the usual uppercut-like strike). Like Eirika's, but more badass.

I'd be just a matter of visuals. I don't think they'll add it either, but it would be cool.

I want Con and weight so I can rescue and capture. Otherwise I think Con and weight are useless, and literally unfair to the sexes, as Luminescent Kitty pointed out. If I could capture, though, I'd be willing to...overlook the unfairness of it...

I don't think it's unfair since girls usually get better speed, so you'd have to choose either high speed with light weapons or a lower speed with better but heavier weapons.

[Thor Odinson]

It sounds fair on paper, but rarely fair in practice. As I've said, it's fair if the con difference is small, like 1, since it biologically does make sense. That's not the case with certain classes like Myrmidon (-3), Archer(-2), Cavalier(-2), and some other ones that I forgot.

That and female units in GBA usually don't have the str to compensate for it (read, usually. most chicks are not named Miledy) and it affects Archers and Pegasi worst, since Pegasi are weighed down terribly by lances, and usually don't have good base strength to do good damage with slim lance (added on to that early chapters are usually an axe fest, they suffer constant WTD) and are a pain to train up, though at least they can ferry, their combat tends to have a pretty long period of suck. Archers...well archers are kinda fucked as a class in general, what with those terrible bases (what the fuck is IS thinking when they made those) AND terrible con. I mean, a chick archer ain't doubling shit in any HM with 4 str/5spd/5 con. Except maybe steel lance armourknights and they'd think those.

Then you look at the difference between, say, female/male swordmaster caps. -2 str for 2 points of res they'll never hit. same speed. a massive 3 con difference. There is no question who's better. People probably only use female swordmasters in GBA for their pretty legs.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Luminescent Kitty

[BwdYeti]

I don't understand this...

Each unit would have a base Con as GBA FE. Then there would be a gauge that you could fill up to gain a point of Con. You fill the gauge by using weapons that are heavier than your Con score, and it fills by the differenence (so 5 Con Myrm chick using 10 Wgt Steel sword gets 5 points per attack). Each level would cost some amount more than the next, and you'd get a max of 3 points (so 5 Con Myrm would be able to get up to 8 Con).

It gives a way to increase Con and have control over the process, but you can only get so many points; no FE5 style everyone capping Build. It also helps low Con units since their gauges will fill faster, while high Con guys are already getting the benefit of having high Con. Also if you don't want a unit to gain Con (they're mounted and would lose Aid, or you don't want them to become too difficult to rescue) you can just use weapons that are the same or less Wgt than the unit's Con.

[Tables]

Thing is, saying 'you can just not use steel weapons with character X' is a pretty hefty penalty. But I don't think it matters. The cost of raising CON isn't going to affect that much compared to the psuedo-extra speed they're gaining.

[Thor Odinson]

The gauge is something pretty high anyway, It wouldn't be some small number like 30/40 but rather something in the 100s, so even if you use something not significantly heavier, it won't add up that much. Like, Steel lance is 13 in FE7. MPaladin default is 11. Say gauge takes 128 points to go up one level, you'd have the Paladin using the Steel Lance 64 times before going up to 12 con. It's more designed to help, say, a default-sized mercenary (aka not Gerik sized but like, Raven +1) to not be weighed down horribly with axes in the long run, and with smaller foot units, there's no actual penalty in gaining con since most mounts can take up to 14 con or so.

Speaking of which, I want mounted rescue based on mount rather than gender. It doesn't make sense a chick HAS to be riding a smaller wyvern than a dude.

Like, Wyverns and Horses are 25-rider's con, and Pegasi are 20-rider's con.

Or hell, universal formula would be nice.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Luminescent Kitty

[Anouleth]

I highly doubt that anyone, ever, is going to use a Steel weapon 64 times.

In any case, for GBA Mercenaries CON is rarely an issue. Raven is only weighed down by 2 by a Steel Sword and is so fast it never bothers him. Dieck and Gerik have ridiculous CON, they don't need help. Moreover, towards the end of the game where these bonuses come into play, you are showered with Silvers, Reavers, and Killers that render CON useless. Why would anyone anchor themselves down with a suboptimal weapon for an enormous 64 rounds of combat, only for the CON bonus to be obsoleted?

[Othin]

I thought about using half strength, but the result would be similar to that of using ful strength: at the end it'd be all about speed caps. I came upon this by looking at the caps for different classes (mainly for the GBA games), and average final stats for the characters in those classes. It would have been like a minimum +3 bonus to CON (since most characters would reach 15 strength or magic). It would make a Falcoknight be able to use silver swords and killer lances without penalty, but keeping their low CON to be able to rescue and be rescued.

When you think that girls usually have higher speed (both growths and caps, at least in GBA, not in DS), being weighted down by the weapon makes things even. That was the reason of adding CON to the FE5, trying to fix FE4's imbalance with weight, while adding two new mechanics to the game: capture and rescue. The problem they faced in FE5 was that rescuing would be neary impossible late game (unless with mounted units), since everyone would've capped CON.

I don't understand this...

I'd be just a matter of visuals. I don't think they'll add it either, but it would be cool.

I don't think it's unfair since girls usually get better speed, so you'd have to choose either high speed with light weapons or a lower speed with better but heavier weapons.

Half strength worked out fine in Berwick Saga; you know this as well as I do. What really matters for any given system is that the weapon Wt is calibrated to get results that work well with the abilities of the characters to negate that weight.

Females' higher Speed is supposed to be the advantage for males typically having higher Strength. It doesn't make sense to put the females entirely at a disadvantage.

I highly doubt that anyone, ever, is going to use a Steel weapon 64 times.

In any case, for GBA Mercenaries CON is rarely an issue. Raven is only weighed down by 2 by a Steel Sword and is so fast it never bothers him. Dieck and Gerik have ridiculous CON, they don't need help. Moreover, towards the end of the game where these bonuses come into play, you are showered with Silvers, Reavers, and Killers that render CON useless. Why would anyone anchor themselves down with a suboptimal weapon for an enormous 64 rounds of combat, only for the CON bonus to be obsoleted?

...Sigh.

Repeat after me: The vast majority of FE players do not play for particularly low turncounts.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Othin

[Thor Odinson]

Then there's Female Myrmidon using Steel Sword is an entire 5 points of AS loss, and they might actually need to use that when lacking a Killing Edge since their attack power tend to suck. 5 points/hit per gain, on the other hand, is pretty good.

Also because axes are better than swords unless FE somehow becomes axeland instead of lanceland. Which is probably not gonna happen, and axes are heavy.

Moreover, it's designed in such a way that it's an optional mechanic should you want to take advantage of it, but it's not necessary to if you don't want to. If you want to get a character to have a higher con, you don't have to wait for bodyrings to appear.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Luminescent Kitty

[dondon151]

I would really like dismounting to make a return.

Repeat after me: The vast majority of FE players do not play for particularly low turncounts.

What Anouleth said didn't even imply low turncounts. Using a Steel Lance 64 times is essentially breaking 2 Steel Lances. Even with some amount of abuse, it's actually really hard to use a Steel Lance 64 times. Assuming that said unit doesn't double with a Steel Lance, 64 rounds of combat is something that, for example, Pent would get over the entire game in a low turncount playthrough. Then consider that the unit who is receiving the favoritism is probably not as good as Pent and would face a lower combat : turns ratio.

Yeah, sure, there is inevitably going to be the guy who abuses +3 con on all of his units, but that's not really relevant. The guy who plays casually is not going to use a Steel Lance 64 times and give up better damage output most of the time just so that he can lose 1 less AS later on when better weapons are available.

But anyway, it's quite amusing how your thought process is so reactionary that you'd take every post to assume low turncounts even when they don't.

Edited September 25, 2011 by dondon151

[Whitefang]

I'd rather you just be able to do some kind of "training", where if your unit is suffering stats-wise you can invest stats in them. Say if you spend 3 preparations investing in Con, your unit gets +1 Con (or whatever stat you wanted except Move). Of course, you can only train so many units each chapter (and once per chapter as well). Perhaps this could only be applicable if the stat in question is at or below the unit's expected value for his/her level.

As for other mechanics that I want to see:

Rescue (with movement reduction)

Capture

Supports

I'd also like to see something new in equippable items. I'd like each character to be able to take into battle one or two weapons. The other slots would be accessories and potions to augment their abilities. You could have different arrows for archers (flaming arrows, anyone?) Shields for knights, Slings for thieves, and so on. It could be quite a creative way to outfit your team. This is complete fantasy, but I think it would be cool.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Whitefang

[uguu]

I'd rather you just be able to do some kind of "training", where if your unit is suffering stats-wise you can invest stats in them. Say if you spend 3 preparations investing in Con, your unit gets +1 Con (or whatever stat you wanted except Move). Of course, you can only train so many units each chapter (and once per chapter as well). Perhaps this could only be applicable if the stat in question is at or below the unit's expected value for his/her level.

As for other mechanics that I want to see:

Rescue (with movement reduction)

Capture

Supports

It would be actually really awesome if they gave you shit for money throughout the game and put in capture and something like the Z2 thing imhotep.

[Anouleth]

I would like to see Advance Wars-style COPs. Special powers, one use per chapter, that use up the unit's turn and give a boost to all other units.

And with awesome music.

[paladin21]

It sounds fair on paper, but rarely fair in practice. As I've said, it's fair if the con difference is small, like 1, since it biologically does make sense. That's not the case with certain classes like Myrmidon (-3), Archer(-2), Cavalier(-2), and some other ones that I forgot.

That and female units in GBA usually don't have the str to compensate for it (read, usually. most chicks are not named Miledy) and it affects Archers and Pegasi worst, since Pegasi are weighed down terribly by lances, and usually don't have good base strength to do good damage with slim lance (added on to that early chapters are usually an axe fest, they suffer constant WTD) and are a pain to train up, though at least they can ferry, their combat tends to have a pretty long period of suck. Archers...well archers are kinda fucked as a class in general, what with those terrible bases (what the fuck is IS thinking when they made those) AND terrible con. I mean, a chick archer ain't doubling shit in any HM with 4 str/5spd/5 con. Except maybe steel lance armourknights and they'd think those.

Then you look at the difference between, say, female/male swordmaster caps. -2 str for 2 points of res they'll never hit. same speed. a massive 3 con difference. There is no question who's better. People probably only use female swordmasters in GBA for their pretty legs.

Well, that could be fixed if males get strength/5 bonus and femmes strength/4, allowing female chars to use heavier weapons faster.

Each unit would have a base Con as GBA FE. Then there would be a gauge that you could fill up to gain a point of Con. You fill the gauge by using weapons that are heavier than your Con score, and it fills by the differenence (so 5 Con Myrm chick using 10 Wgt Steel sword gets 5 points per attack). Each level would cost some amount more than the next, and you'd get a max of 3 points (so 5 Con Myrm would be able to get up to 8 Con).

It gives a way to increase Con and have control over the process, but you can only get so many points; no FE5 style everyone capping Build. It also helps low Con units since their gauges will fill faster, while high Con guys are already getting the benefit of having high Con. Also if you don't want a unit to gain Con (they're mounted and would lose Aid, or you don't want them to become too difficult to rescue) you can just use weapons that are the same or less Wgt than the unit's Con.

The problem with this is that certain unmounted units should also have low CON to be rescued. In FE8 there are certain units that cannot be rescued once all of them are promoted.

[Othin]

I would really like dismounting to make a return.

What Anouleth said didn't even imply low turncounts. Using a Steel Lance 64 times is essentially breaking 2 Steel Lances. Even with some amount of abuse, it's actually really hard to use a Steel Lance 64 times. Assuming that said unit doesn't double with a Steel Lance, 64 rounds of combat is something that, for example, Pent would get over the entire game in a low turncount playthrough. Then consider that the unit who is receiving the favoritism is probably not as good as Pent and would face a lower combat : turns ratio.

Yeah, sure, there is inevitably going to be the guy who abuses +3 con on all of his units, but that's not really relevant. The guy who plays casually is not going to use a Steel Lance 64 times and give up better damage output most of the time just so that he can lose 1 less AS later on when better weapons are available.

But anyway, it's quite amusing how your thought process is so reactionary that you'd take every post to assume low turncounts even when they don't.

Pent is available for a third of the main story, is often quite busy with healing, and isn't a frontline unit anyway. Personally, I don't think I've ever completed an FE game without at least one character having 100+ rounds of combat. Let's compare to Raven, who's available for more than two thirds of the game. He would need to attack three times per chapter to reach that goal, presumably not even needing to hit. And then there's double attacks, which are quite possible for him even with the Speed drop, meaning that he doesn't even need 64 rounds of combat, but may need closer to 32. Spending a few turns on the frontline every few chapters would be more than enough to get 64 attacks with a Steel Sword, even without using the Steel Sword all the time - although as a cheap and effective weapon, it tends to be used quite frequently.

Perhaps I should clarify: I'm not arguing that the idea is a good one, and I'm sure as hell not arguing that the random number suggested as an example for the requirement is right, especially in one specific game, because I just don't care. What I care about is the notion that a character would never use a Steel weapon 64 times, when even in a normal playthrough of this one, specific game, that is very much reasonable. Considering all of the games in the series, all of the different ways people play those games, for any reason, the notion that it would never happen is just insane. Even the simplest of these games, which you insist on focusing on for whatever reason, are not so simple as to remove the countless possibilities of how people might play them for whatever reason, and anyone expecting that they can account for those possibilities is sheer arrogance.

Specifically, not you, as you don't seem to hold that view. When considering better characters and the reasonable variety of ways a casual player might play even without the mechanic, it is very plausible that they might have at least one character use a Steel weapon 64+ times in one playthrough, no matter when they reach that point, and without assuming they have the knowledge to play at all optimally. Do you disagree with this? If not, this doesn't concern you.

Well, that could be fixed if males get strength/5 bonus and femmes strength/4, allowing female chars to use heavier weapons faster.

The problem with this is that certain unmounted units should also have low CON to be rescued. In FE8 there are certain units that cannot be rescued once all of them are promoted.

Differences exist; they don't have to always be negated for perfect equality, especially with differences so small. If a male character has 20 Str and a female character has 16 Str, where's the problem if the female character gets slowed down by another point by weapons? Characters are supposed to have differences, not all be exactly the same.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Othin

[Anouleth]

Pent is available for a third of the main story, is often quite busy with healing, and isn't a frontline unit anyway. Personally, I don't think I've ever completed an FE game without at least one character having 100+ rounds of combat. Let's compare to Raven, who's available for more than two thirds of the game. He would need to attack three times per chapter to reach that goal, presumably not even needing to hit. And then there's double attacks, which are quite possible for him even with the Speed drop, meaning that he doesn't even need 64 rounds of combat, but may need closer to 32. Spending a few turns on the frontline every few chapters would be more than enough to get 64 attacks with a Steel Sword, even without using the Steel Sword all the time - although as a cheap and effective weapon, it tends to be used quite frequently.

So he gets his 32 rounds of combat with a Steel Sword, and then you realise that Raven is one of the fastest characters in the game and Killer and Reaver weapons become available and you realise it was a waste of time. After all, if Raven can double with a Steel Sword in the first place, then it's questionable if he even needs any more CON.

Perhaps I should clarify: I'm not arguing that the idea is a good one, and I'm sure as hell not arguing that the random number suggested as an example for the requirement is right, especially in one specific game, because I just don't care. What I care about is the notion that a character would never use a Steel weapon 64 times, when even in a normal playthrough of this one, specific game, that is very much reasonable. Considering all of the games in the series, all of the different ways people play those games, for any reason, the notion that it would never happen is just insane. Even the simplest of these games, which you insist on focusing on for whatever reason, are not so simple as to remove the countless possibilities of how people might play them for whatever reason, and anyone expecting that they can account for those possibilities is sheer arrogance.

Well, maybe I shouldn't have indulged in hyperbole. But in any case, I would imagine that the majority players will not shoot themselves in the foot 64 times so that shooting themselves in the foot later will be less painful. 64 rounds of combat, after all, is about 13 levels,.so by the time you get the boost you will be quite far in the game. Far enough to buy good weapons, far enough to promote and have less problems with doubling, far enough, in other words, that an extra point of CON is less important.

[Thor Odinson]

Well, that could be fixed if males get strength/5 bonus and femmes strength/4, allowing female chars to use heavier weapons faster.

The problem with this is that certain unmounted units should also have low CON to be rescued. In FE8 there are certain units that cannot be rescued once all of them are promoted.

See Othin's post.

Though, it doesn't make sense for a woman with 25 str to lose more speed than a guy with 16 str, either. It does make sense for con to be a part of the equation, but unless it has a way to get better for those low-con, high str (or even low str) units, it's basically sandbagging units. The only case where that makes sense is it the weapon is like, actually bigger than the user (as in unit is 5"6" with 28 inch waist, sword looks like Clouds PLUS being 6' long), but most functional weapons are not that big at all.

Well, that's not really a problem. If mr. huge berserker guy doesn't fit on a horse, then he won't fit on the horse no matter how much you stuff him on that Paladin's horse. He'll have to stick to walking over those mountains instead.

Anou, I think you didn't get my point with the 64 hits of steel lance. I meant it as in a counterexample to how Paladins won't be gaining con that often so their rescue won't drop. The system's meant to benefit low-con units who are seriously shafted by their con and loses AS with just about everything ever that's not Iron (or hell, EVEN Iron), not units with already sufficient con to use most weapons meant for his/her class.

[Anouleth]

See Othin's post.

Though, it doesn't make sense for a woman with 25 str to lose more speed than a guy with 16 str, either. It does make sense for con to be a part of the equation, but unless it has a way to get better for those low-con, high str (or even low str) units, it's basically sandbagging units. The only case where that makes sense is it the weapon is like, actually bigger than the user (as in unit is 5"6" with 28 inch waist, sword looks like Clouds PLUS being 6' long), but most functional weapons are not that big at all.

Well, that's not really a problem. If mr. huge berserker guy doesn't fit on a horse, then he won't fit on the horse no matter how much you stuff him on that Paladin's horse. He'll have to stick to walking over those mountains instead.

Anou, I think you didn't get my point with the 64 hits of steel lance. I meant it as in a counterexample to how Paladins won't be gaining con that often so their rescue won't drop. The system's meant to benefit low-con units who are seriously shafted by their con and loses AS with just about everything ever that's not Iron (or hell, EVEN Iron), not units with already sufficient con to use most weapons meant for his/her class.

I would think that units who are seriously shafted by their CON would not want to use heavy weapons in the first place. It would be nice for Pegasi, I guess, but they have enough issues picking up some of the heftier units.

In addition, I don't really get the impression that low-CON units like Pegasus Knights or female Sword users or Guy are underpowered. Obviously, some of them are (Karla and Marisa for instance), but I think that's for reasons beyond their constitution. So I don't think this is a problem that needs fixing.

[paladin21]

Half strength worked out fine in Berwick Saga; you know this as well as I do. What really matters for any given system is that the weapon Wt is calibrated to get results that work well with the abilities of the characters to negate that weight.

Females' higher Speed is supposed to be the advantage for males typically having higher Strength. It doesn't make sense to put the females entirely at a disadvantage.

In Berwick Saga there was no rescue and capture is way different from FE5, so adding CON was of no use. The main reason it's a weight system somewhat balanced is that you cannot get a character stats overblessed or overscrewed because of the stat correction factor, so you always know which characters will be faster and which will be stronger. Also, the fighting style is different, with units not normally answering to the attack unless it misses or it has the appropiate skill. Since the game mechanics are way different, you cannot compare just a part of it.

Differences exist; they don't have to always be negated for perfect equality, especially with differences so small. If a male character has 20 Str and a female character has 16 Str, where's the problem if the female character gets slowed down by another point by weapons? Characters are supposed to have differences, not all be exactly the same.

Everybody says that the idea I came up with was unfair to women, and when I try to make it more girl-friendly, everybody says it was better before.

See Othin's post.

Though, it doesn't make sense for a woman with 25 str to lose more speed than a guy with 16 str, either. It does make sense for con to be a part of the equation, but unless it has a way to get better for those low-con, high str (or even low str) units, it's basically sandbagging units. The only case where that makes sense is it the weapon is like, actually bigger than the user (as in unit is 5"6" with 28 inch waist, sword looks like Clouds PLUS being 6' long), but most functional weapons are not that big at all.

Ok, you finally got to the point I was thinking. Constitution is more about body size. I can't imagine a big character like Dozla or Gilliam being rescued by Amelia (as a supertrainee), just because she was training with bigger weapons. Or even if you put certain limitations to the ammount of CON points you may get, I'd still think that growing CON isn't the answer. I'd rather give a bonus to the CON via the weapon rank over rank E (this means max weight without penalty would be: E-rank=CON, S-rank=CON+5) for each weapon.

I would think that units who are seriously shafted by their CON would not want to use heavy weapons in the first place. It would be nice for Pegasi, I guess, but they have enough issues picking up some of the heftier units.

In addition, I don't really get the impression that low-CON units like Pegasus Knights or female Sword users or Guy are underpowered. Obviously, some of them are (Karla and Marisa for instance), but I think that's for reasons beyond their constitution. So I don't think this is a problem that needs fixing.

Then, if everybody is happy with the CON-Weight system, why are we giving ideas on how to fix it

[Othin]

In Berwick Saga there was no rescue and capture is way different from FE5, so adding CON was of no use. The main reason it's a weight system somewhat balanced is that you cannot get a character stats overblessed or overscrewed because of the stat correction factor, so you always know which characters will be faster and which will be stronger. Also, the fighting style is different, with units not normally answering to the attack unless it misses or it has the appropiate skill. Since the game mechanics are way different, you cannot compare just a part of it.

FE9 and FE10 have Bld still used for rescuing while Str is used for weight instead.

I'm not saying to just transplant the system; in fact, I'm saying the opposite. My point is that whatever system the game uses for weight, it simply needs to set up the numbers so that they work out. You can't just assume that stats, caps, and weapon weight will stay the way it is in existing games, so existing stats can't prove a point about how a new mechanic would have to work.

[BwdYeti]

In addition, I don't really get the impression that low-CON units like Pegasus Knights or female Sword users or Guy are underpowered. Obviously, some of them are (Karla and Marisa for instance), but I think that's for reasons beyond their constitution. So I don't think this is a problem that needs fixing.

Guy wouldn't want enough Con to use Silver (or even Killer) without AS loss?

And the +2/64 turns was an example, Steel Sword Guy would take 26 attacks, not even a full Steel Sword. And you could just only use Steel when you would double anyway so it only affects your avoid. Or you could use an Armorslayer 21 times on armors, whatever. And the 128 could be adjusted to whatever the most fitting value is.

Ok, you finally got to the point I was thinking. Constitution is more about body size. I can't imagine a big character like Dozla or Gilliam being rescued by Amelia (as a supertrainee), just because she was training with bigger weapons. Or even if you put certain limitations to the ammount of CON points you may get, I'd still think that growing CON isn't the answer. I'd rather give a bonus to the CON via the weapon rank over rank E (this means max weight without penalty would be: E-rank=CON, S-rank=CON+5) for each weapon.

That's why I wanted the system to be a bit difficult to gain points and have a limit on how many, since a tiny unit getting huge doesn't make sense. And the points gained are based on AS penalty so it requires some investment to gain (even if it's just a little avoid) and isn't automatic if you're fine with the Con a unit has.

It's a compromise between FE5's everyone can have free con and GBA FE's completely static Con.

[CrashGordon94]

To be honest, the problem doesn't seem that bad in FE5, people who aren't Marty have exceedingly low Build growths and the only time you'd see some tiny person maxing their Build there would be via incredible luck, abuse or both. Having a growth for it would probably be fine.

[paladin21]

That's why I wanted the system to be a bit difficult to gain points and have a limit on how many, since a tiny unit getting huge doesn't make sense. And the points gained are based on AS penalty so it requires some investment to gain (even if it's just a little avoid) and isn't automatic if you're fine with the Con a unit has.

It's a compromise between FE5's everyone can have free con and GBA FE's completely static Con.

I usually see Con as the unit size, meaning with that height and weight. Being bigger would mean that you'd have less trouble when using certain weapons (heavier or bigger), strength matters, but usually bigger people can use heftier weapons without problems. From my point of view, Con would be more static than dinamic, and getting some Con upon promotion is OK, like enough training made that character get some extra weight, and at the end (excluding those from trainee classes in FE8), characters would be about the same, just physically fitter, if that matters. If they can grow Con, they could be like growing from 5 to 10 (counting promo bonus), and to my little mind, it's like they're using steroids. If you look at the character background from the GBA games, they ones with higher Con are usually more experienced characters (independently from their class), or the ones that already use heavy weapons, because they suit them better. You can't get a life's experience in just the time one of this stories would tell (maybe FE4 would).

On the other hand, I don't see strength like "how much weight you can lift", but "how much damage you can deal when you hit". It's like that you can strike harder, but not necesarily lift much more weight. It's like if you train different muscle sets, you'll always want to get stronger, but you can train to hit faster and with that speed hit harder (with doesn't mean you'll hit more often, just that when you attemp to strike, the blow will go faster), or you can get able to lift heavier things, which will make you an awesome contender for the olympic gold in weightlifting, or you can throw big rock to crush your enemy like a human catapult (if you somehow manage to hit them).

Speed would be the reaction factor, like how fast can you get your gard on after attempting a strike instead of how fast you strike.

The system I designed was based on this premises, characters would get a Con based on their past, story and such, but then they'd get benefits from their strength, like being able to increase the weight in the gym to do the same exercise without being much bigger yourself. Of course not everyone would be able to use all the weapons without speed lose, but having low Con, wouldn't make them lose so much speed.

Again, this is just my point of view on the stats and the way they would affect a real combat, and I made up a system that followed that pattern.

[dondon151]

To be honest, the problem doesn't seem that bad in FE5, people who aren't Marty have exceedingly low Build growths and the only time you'd see some tiny person maxing their Build there would be via incredible luck, abuse or both. Having a growth for it would probably be fine.

YayMarsha once encountered a problem in his FE5 SSS playthrough because in chapter 12x, Leaf had 7 con but Saphy had 4, so Leaf had to take a movement penalty when rescuing Saphy.

Units with high con growing more con also creates the issue of mounted units being unable to rescue those units without a movement penalty (although FE5's movement reduction is a big deal). Still, in that game, mounted units could rescue almost everyone, whereas the formula is substantially more limited in the GBA FEs.