Someone asked, so here are my thoughts on occupy wall street.

[someonewhodied]

Now first off i think social classes should be divided like this:

The top 1% who got lucky and are now set for 3 generations without doing shit.

The Next 19% that tried really hard in school and got into a good college and are now making enough money to support their lives for a bit.

The Middle class: 40% are people that have gotten pretty much what we in oak park and thousand oaks to be average. We have a lot of what we want but cant have everything.

The low 20%: These are like the people living in smaller houses or apartments. They have an OK life but still struggle.

The bottem 20%. THe people with the crappy lives.

The bottem 20% are the real problem in this society. These are the assholes at occupy wall street. They didn't give a fuck in high school about thier grades, They didn't care about college until it was too late. They didn't prepare for their futures. They are butthurt that people who actually tried in high school have better lives than them, though they had their fun when they were in school and now need to work to survive. I think that its perfectly justified that the top 1% makes all that money, but my only quirk with them is that they should be doing whats best for the country with their companies, not doing what makes the most profit. I mean, those should be hand in hand though. The best should make the most money.

Those are my thoughts anyways.

[Anouleth]

The bottem 20% are the real problem in this society. These are the assholes at occupy wall street. They didn't give a fuck in high school about thier grades, They didn't care about college until it was too late.

Uh, I'm pretty sure that most of the bottom 20% aren't the ones at the OWS protests.

Moreover, you seem to engage in a complete misunderstanding of how an economy works. Not everyone can go to High School, not everyone can go to College and get a degree. The US cannot consist entirely of investment brokers, lawyers, and doctors, and it's naive to believe that could happen. It's also disgusting to suggest that somehow, their poverty is their own fault. The implication is that the reason that they are losing their jobs is because they're simply lazy or stupid.

[Othin]

You're assuming equal opportunity, which is completely false. If someone is born into poverty, they'll typically wind up having to start working while still in school to help support their family, and depending on the work, that can be enough to impact their grades or force them to drop out. And then the cycle just continues.

There are ways out, but they invariably require luck of some sort or another. People cannot be expected to drag themselves out of such a situation, and that is why they and others are complaining.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Othin

[someonewhodied]

You're assuming equal opportunity, which is completely false. If someone is born into poverty, they'll typically wind up having to start working while still in school to help support their family, and depending on the work, that can be enough to impact their grades or force them to drop out. And then the cycle just continues.

There are ways out, but they invariably require luck of some sort or another. People cannot be expected to drag themselves out of such a situation, and that is why they and others are complaining.

My choir teacher had that kind of life and all he did is work hard and now he is leading a pretty good life. The US gives you equal oppertunity. Your luck does not.

[Esau of Isaac]

My choir teacher had that kind of life and all he did is work hard and now he is leading a pretty good life. The US gives you equal oppertunity. Your luck does not.

Your choir teacher isn't indicative of impoverished America.

I could waste my energy actually engaging in conversation, but it's a waste of my time: You plainly know fucking nothing about what you are discussing, and you should be ashamed that you're taking the same stance so many other utterly ignorant retards assume because it's the status quo.

[Othin]

My choir teacher had that kind of life and all he did is work hard and now he is leading a pretty good life. The US gives you equal oppertunity. Your luck does not.

You honestly believe that someone whose family is so impoverished that they have to drop out of school in order to survive has the same opportunity as someone born into even a middle-class family?

If your choir teacher completed high school, he's an insufficient example. If not, give me some more details and I'm sure I can find some instances of considerable luck quite easily.

[uguu]

You honestly believe that someone whose family is so impoverished that they have to drop out of school in order to survive has the same opportunity as someone born into even a middle-class family?

If your choir teacher completed high school, he's an insufficient example. If not, give me some more details and I'm sure I can find some instances of considerable luck quite easily.

Another good question is what age his choir teacher is.

[Original Alear]

I think that its perfectly justified that the top 1% makes all that money, but my only quirk with them is that they should be doing whats best for the country with their companies, not doing what makes the most profit.

What is best for the country? Surely the companies and the people who make the profits are part of the country, and what is best for them is in part what's best for the country?

Capitolism suffers from endemic unemployment, and that unemployment has expanded in recent years. When there are substantially more job seekers than jobs, you get problems. This is not the fault of the job seekers. It probably rests on the system which emphasizes profit as a way of finding secure existence, a system which I admit might not be worth revising in the sense of trying to guarantee additional employment, meaning that less employment goes on than there could be.

I could waste my energy actually engaging in conversation, but it's a waste of my time: You plainly know fucking nothing about what you are discussing, and you should be ashamed that you're taking the same stance so many other utterly ignorant retards assume because it's the status quo.

That, or he wants to hold the status quo because he's in a good situation regarding it, and he does know what we're saying but doesn't give a shit.

[someonewhodied]

have you seen those "I am the 99%" signs?

When they say they failed to complete high school, thats a sign of failure on their part. They didnt get good grades. Very few say they have had to drop out to suppor themselves or their family. Its not my fault most of the protesters look uneducated or apathetic.

And yeah im not in a _Good_ position. Just, average.

[Ryrumeli]

The bottem 20% are the real problem in this society. These are the assholes at occupy wall street.

Indeed. Of course, those that are there because they can't afford college tuition, or those millionaires which are helping their groups behind the scenes(Or do you think poor people can afford to have a free journal like they do?), or those brilliant people with college and masters degrees going to the square just to preach to those hundreds of young people are all part of the "problem 20%"?

Your theory of the "1% which leads 99% of mankind" is the theory of dependency of leadership, and proves a stance of a person that doesn't want to decide, and thus hopes for a 1% to help deciding. People that belong to this 1% had a father or a grandfather which decided to decide, instead of just believing this was a natural order of some sort. A person that just wants "Someone that is better than him/her calling the shots, so you don't have to worry about your own future." That is but the impression I get with these words.

They didn't give a fuck in high school about thier grades, They didn't care about college until it was too late. They didn't prepare for their futures. They are butthurt that people who actually tried in high school have better lives than them, though they had their fun when they were in school and now need to work to survive.[/Quote]

Do you honestly believe that is the totality of people there? Do you honestly believe they are complaining about that and not that the fact that because of a 1% that cared more about their own riches than the majority now the fine balance of the worldly economy is a bit damaged to say the least?

I think that its perfectly justified that the top 1% makes all that money, but my only quirk with them is that they should be doing whats best for the country with their companies, not doing what makes the most profit.[/Quote]

And pray tell, what is the motivation these people should have to do what is "Best for their country and not for themselves"? If a person was born into rich, should he still decide for something other than his own good? All things that people do are things originated from motivation. Acts are but consequences of motivation.

I mean, those should be hand in hand though. The best should make the most money.[/Quote]

"The best". So the best, based on what? Because grades aren't it, since there are people that even without high school teaching managed to amass fortunes so big that today they could buy thrid world contries. Luck? Because many businessmen that created companies listed in the stock market say that luck is just a detail in the equation. Intelligence? Because a study with many businessmen proved they have in average a much lower IQ than the people they hire for the best jobs. And still they make more money than them.

The way you talk you say the fittest should guide the nation, and mankind. What defines someone as fittest, though, having money? Being born into a rich family? Having good grades in high school?

And finally, why don't you work to become a "fittest"? To join the best and lead the nation?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Ryrumeli

[Soviet Gregor]

Most of the protesters are that "40% middle class" you're talking about. They have the luxury of coming to New York to protest.

They had it "made". They finished school, college and probably even had a job.

Edit: Troll much? Because it sounds like you're talking out your ass.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Pahn

[Original Alear]

Most of the protesters are that "40% middle class" you're talking about. They have the luxury of coming to New York to protest.

They had it "made". They finished school, college and probably even had a job.

Edit: Troll much? Because it sounds like you're talking out your ass.

I don't think that SWD would troll in general, that's just me though. Also, considering the especially high unemployment rate of people ages 18-24, I doubt that most of the protesters had a job, do you have anything to back that up?

[Soviet Gregor]

I don't think that SWD would troll in general, that's just me though. Also, considering the especially high unemployment rate of people ages 18-24, I doubt that most of the protesters had a job, do you have anything to back that up?

A piece of paper in front of me, don't know the source though. Also, I know from personal experience with OWS.

Mind you, very shitty jobs. Things you don't need college for.

It's unfortunate that this had to start on a the middle class's accord.

Edit: Derp herp, it's a Fordham University Study. Not public yet. Will post link in about 3 days.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Pahn

[Zanarkin]

have you seen those "I am the 99%" signs?

When they say they failed to complete high school, thats a sign of failure on their part. They didnt get good grades. Very few say they have had to drop out to suppor themselves or their family. Its not my fault most of the protesters look uneducated or apathetic.

And yeah im not in a _Good_ position. Just, average.

I have read of some that have a masters degree and such but no job, just a massive debt from college/university. There is a mix of people making the 99%. What you are saying is that everyone that is protesting is a loser that has no education and is the cause of their own demise. You are completely overlooking the possibilities that led to them not being able to continue their education. Sure some are bound to be high school dropouts by their own choice, but not all of them.

[Raven]

I cannot comprehend the derp that is being herped in this topic. How are people able to assume that the protestors there are all people who didn't give a fuck in school - dropouts and the like? I don't understand. Who is feeding you this stuff which you are believing? They need a good fucking kick in the head. Maybe then they'll realise that most people's lives are a mess not through their own fault, but through events which prevented them from achieving what they wanted.

This ignorance needs to be corrected.

[Soviet Gregor]

I cannot comprehend the derp that is being herped in this topic. How are people able to assume that the protestors there are all people who didn't give a fuck in school - dropouts and the like? I don't understand. Who is feeding you this stuff which you are believing? They need a good fucking kick in the head. Maybe then they'll realise that most people's lives are a mess not through their own fault, but through events which prevented them from achieving what they wanted.

This ignorance needs to be corrected.

I love you Raven, but now now, be easy. The system has made him believe so. It's not his fault. Dismantle the system!

[uguu]

I cannot comprehend the derp that is being herped in this topic. How are people able to assume that the protestors there are all people who didn't give a fuck in school - dropouts and the like? I don't understand. Who is feeding you this stuff which you are believing? They need a good fucking kick in the head. Maybe then they'll realise that most people's lives are a mess not through their own fault, but through events which prevented them from achieving what they wanted.

This ignorance needs to be corrected.

It's called The Republican Party, a group of rich people and poor people who love getting ass fucked by rich people (both literally and figuratively). I envy your lack of having to deal with them as much.

[Raven]

I love you Raven, but now now, be easy. The system has made him believe so. It's not his fault. Dismantle the system!

I guess it was a harsh post. However the people who are being accused of not getting themselves an education simply because they didn't give a fuck are being accused of this by people who need to get an education - those being the people controlling the system, as you say. It's almost ironic.

[Celice]

Most of the arguments for/against this fad have one thing in common: they cry about the symptoms, not the possibility.

[Soviet Gregor]

Most of the arguments for/against this fad have one thing in common: they cry about the symptoms, not the possibility.

Fair enough.

What do you think will come out of OWS?

Edit: Or rather, "Occupy" movements in general.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Pahn

[Othin]

The one thing that bugs me about OWS is something I read about a poll done there: a significant percentage of people (over 30%, I think) want it to have the same effect on the Democrat party as the Tea Party has had on the Republican party. That's just adding more fuel to the fire and won't accomplish anything.

[uguu]

The one thing that bugs me about OWS is something I read about a poll done there: a significant percentage of people (over 30%, I think) want it to have the same effect on the Democrat party as the Tea Party has had on the Republican party. That's just adding more fuel to the fire and won't accomplish anything.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was mostly just republicans hoping that it'll split up the democrats. Or is that what you were implying?

[Celice]

Fair enough.

What do you think will come out of OWS?

Edit: Or rather, "Occupy" movements in general.

Depends. At the moment, they're laughable.

It doens't help that it's rife with people striking out for reasons not aligned with what the "movement" is about. People take advantage of the ambigiouty (and size) of some of the protests and use it to set piles aflame, antagonize cops, riot like an idiot, and terrorize "the man." A couple weeks ago, man from several cities away came to my old town (which was the county seat of its county) just to bust out windows of numerous county vehicles. When he was caught, he defended himself as part of this "movement."

But at the moment, the entire situation--both what people are doing and the "system" they act against--are equally absurd. It's more akin to people playing within a toybox, and throwing fits when the rules they place of themselves seem unfair. But it never crosses their minds that the rules are self-imposed and the toybox an artificial fancy. Instead they woo and sway within the rules of the toybox, and complain. Never act--only complain. Rather than evaluate why there's an issue at all, all one wants is to make the rules change.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Celice

[Othin]

I wouldn't be surprised if that was mostly just republicans hoping that it'll split up the democrats. Or is that what you were implying?

The poll was of people protesting. So I don't think so.

[Esau of Isaac]

have you seen those "I am the 99%" signs?

When they say they failed to complete high school, thats a sign of failure on their part. They didnt get good grades. Very few say they have had to drop out to suppor themselves or their family. Its not my fault most of the protesters look uneducated or apathetic.

And yeah im not in a _Good_ position. Just, average.

God you are so dumb. I hate you. I hate you so much. I wish I could hate you to death.

Depends. At the moment, they're laughable.

It doens't help that it's rife with people striking out for reasons not aligned with what the "movement" is about. People take advantage of the ambigiouty (and size) of some of the protests and use it to set piles aflame, antagonize cops, riot like an idiot, and terrorize "the man." A couple weeks ago, man from several cities away came to my old town (which was the county seat of its county) just to bust out windows of numerous county vehicles. When he was caught, he defended himself as part of this "movement."

But at the moment, the entire situation--both what people are doing and the "system" they act against--are equally absurd. It's more akin to people playing within a toybox, and throwing fits when the rules they place of themselves seem unfair. But it never crosses their minds that the rules are self-imposed and the toybox an artificial fancy. Instead they woo and sway within the rules of the toybox, and complain. Never act--only complain. Rather than evaluate why there's an issue at all, all one wants is to make the rules change.

Okay, yes, the protests are by and large diffuse, but you have to remember that years ago so was the Tea Party (arguably still is), however they are a powerful enough voting bloc that they've further radicalized the Republican Party.

It might be optimism on my part, but I just don't think that many thousands of people can just protest the inequalities of their environment without at some point consolidating.

Edited November 6, 2011 by Esau of Isaac