...did I just fight a guy?

[Erk]

Gorilla Presses tend to work quite well I find.

yeah, but that doesn't have the devastating/deceiving quality of a palm thrust to the nose. It looks so weak, but it's something like 5x more likely to break bone than a punch. And you do not have to worry about messing up your knuckles. And that has nothing to do with Gorilla Presses. Gorilla Presses are gay. lawllawl.

[MacLovin]

Or you could just jam your finger through his eyes...........

[Thor Odinson]

Okay. We don't wanna cause blinding. Plus that gets blood all over the place and gets pretty messy. I'd say that's even more of a last resort than nadshots.

...of course, there's no telling what I'd do in a fit of rage, because I'd get pretty pissed if some dude decides that his hands don't know its place.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[MacLovin]

Of course, if the girl is wearing a skimpy outfit, then that would tempt many guys.

[Erk]

Of course, if the girl is wearing a skimpy outfit, then that would tempt many guys.

^That's where self control SHOULD come in^

[Thor Odinson]

The guy should still know not to touch girls who hasn't given them permission to. It's never okay under any circumstance. Self-control is something good to have. And we don't know how Kai's friend is dressed like, but it wouldn't matter. People should just keep their hands to themselves.

They'd be fucking desperate to feel me up, though. I dress like the mafia.

Though, I don't understand the girls who wear really skimpy outfits in the winter THEN complain it's cold. Instead of complaining about it, put some fucking clothes on.

[Junkhead]

You waited for the 9th fucking time for the girl to give you the puppy stare? You should be ashamed of yourself, you mother f*cker!

[ReformBlade]

Of course, if the girl is wearing a skimpy outfit, then that would tempt many guys.

Clearly they were asking for it, am I right?

Also, after reading the whole topic, I've come to one conclusion...

[Junkhead]

Anyway, Kai, that was a job well done. I like how you got to overwhelm a guy physically larger than you like that, despite being a little small yourself.

Being a White Knight rocks.

[MacLovin]

Clearly they were asking for it, am I right?

Also, after reading the whole topic, I've come to one conclusion...

I hope that assailant dies from this

[Inactive Account]

Of course, if the girl is wearing a skimpy outfit, then that would tempt many guys.

^That's where self control SHOULD come in^

thank you, Erk.

Using revealing clothing to shift blame for harassment or worse onto the victim is utterly disgusting, and covering up does not stop rape. There's no bizarre magical force attached to revealing clothing that makes people start disregarding consent. Rape and harassment happen because some people, who may or may not be even paying attention to the victim's clothing, have decided that they are entitled to use someone else's body without consent, for whatever asinine justification they can come up with (sometimes by deciding that something, such as clothing, constitutes consent when it doesn't, or that the victim deserves it for whatever reason). Revealing clothing is not and never has been consent or "asking for" someone to touch without asking, or to go further than that.

[peener weener]

*Shrugs* Breeding stock, there's plenty of it, why cry over one damaged specimen.

Now now, you don't need to look at everything objectively.

[Nightmare]

Oh yeah, good job Kai. Respect and fist bumps and all.

[Raven]

You can't say a girl was "asking for it" (rape, sexual assault, etc.) just because of the clothing she wears. Girls who wear such clothing are simply showing off their assets, and I approve of this because I am a pervert. Sadly some guys who don't know their right from left take this as an invitation for a "hands-on" approach to get this girl.

I see it every time I go to a club or something - however the most of the girls there, particularly those dancing on the dancefloor, don't mind getting felt up and kissing random guys, from what I've seen.

Maybe that's just the UK for you. Who knows.

[Thor Odinson]

Well, if they're okay with it, then it isn't an issue. I guess some girls go to clubs to get felt up by random guys? IDK. Whatever rolls with them.

[Mikethfc]

Well, if they're okay with it, then it isn't an issue. I guess some girls go to clubs to get felt up by random guys? IDK. Whatever rolls with them.

They're not, just too drunk to do much about it, about a month ago there was a late 40 something looking guy trying to get with a girl who was about my age. Quite a bit of wtf ensued when he buggered off for whatever reason.

[Rei Rei]

I won't bother reading the other pages, but I can say that the OP did the right thing.

It's not like he beat the guy to a bloody pulp. And the guy threw the first punch.

[Tangerine]

You can't say a girl was "asking for it" (rape, sexual assault, etc.) just because of the clothing she wears. Girls who wear such clothing are simply showing off their assets, and I approve of this because I am a pervert. Sadly some guys who don't know their right from left take this as an invitation for a "hands-on" approach to get this girl.

I see it every time I go to a club or something - however the most of the girls there, particularly those dancing on the dancefloor, don't mind getting felt up and kissing random guys, from what I've seen.

Maybe that's just the UK for you. Who knows.

If you go out to a club or something dressed promiscuously, you are asking for something to happen. A dude actually cannot get charged just for touching you in situations like that (well, depending on the establishment), and you have no right to react with violence. That is of course barring "excessive touching". Anything not allowed under the club's rules basically.

What you wear sends different messages to people - the amount of skin you show especially. You go out showing a bunch of skin, you have no right to be angry when you get comments or the odd guy getting close to you. It's ridiculous how many women think they can do this and still act like that random guy committed the worst crime in the world. I become more of a man-apologist every time I see stuff like this happening. You'd see it all the time at (off-campus of course) parties in the University I went to.

Nobody would care if Kai made a thread saying some girl started feeling him up on the train, in fact he'd have been cheered on. (of course, because I depicted this response in a negative light I will get a lot of people saying "oh I would never have said that")

Edited November 18, 2011 by Tangerine

[Lux Aeterna]

lol, probably your head would roll. Try calling for help or something.

mkay

[Mikethfc]

yeah, but that doesn't have the devastating/deceiving quality of a palm thrust to the nose. It looks so weak, but it's something like 5x more likely to break bone than a punch. And you do not have to worry about messing up your knuckles. And that has nothing to do with Gorilla Presses. Gorilla Presses are gay. lawllawl.

What's so gay about grown men wrestling in their underwear?

[Ansem]

Oh yeah she wasnt wearing anything revealing, just thought I'd put that out :U

[Inactive Account]

If you go out to a club or something dressed promiscuously, you are asking for something to happen. A dude actually cannot get charged just for touching you in situations like that (well, depending on the establishment), and you have no right to react with violence. That is of course barring "excessive touching". Anything not allowed under the club's rules basically.

What you wear sends different messages to people - the amount of skin you show especially. You go out showing a bunch of skin, you have no right to be angry when you get comments or the odd guy getting close to you. It's ridiculous how many women think they can do this and still act like that random guy committed the worst crime in the world. I become more of a man-apologist every time I see stuff like this happening. You'd see it all the time at (off-campus of course) parties in the University I went to.

Nobody would care if Kai made a thread saying some girl started feeling him up on the train, in fact he'd have been cheered on. (of course, because I depicted this response in a negative light I will get a lot of people saying "oh I would never have said that")

Oh God, where do I even start.

If you go out to a club or something dressed promiscuously, you are asking for something to happen. A dude actually cannot get charged just for touching you in situations like that (well, depending on the establishment), and you have no right to react with violence. That is of course barring "excessive touching". Anything not allowed under the club's rules basically.

Legality does not equal it being okay, and it does not equal consent.

The fact that being harassed is made more likely by being dressed in a revealing manner DOES NOT MEAN that dressing in a revealing manner is ASKING for harassment. No article of clothing is capable of voiding someone's rights to decide in what ways and by whom their body is allowed to be touched. Cleavage is NOT the same as saying "I am okay with being touched by random strangers." Just because it is LIKELY that harassment will occur does NOT mean that the fault lies with the victim; it still lies with the harasser, who has decided that they are entitled to touch without asking. Or to simplify, just because harassment is a likely outcome in current society does not mean that it is not a problem.

In such a situation, someone would be completely within their rights in telling someone to stop touching them, or in moving their hands away, etc. They would also be within their rights to take further methods (preferably contacting staff of the establishment they're in) if the harasser refuses to stop, or gets worse. I also don't see the part where someone in this thread said that violence was a justified immediate response to being groped in such a setting, why do you keep responding as though someone has advocated violence as the first solution?

Also, even though it may be legal (and I find it hard to believe that any unwanted touching is actually legal, though it is unlikely to be prosecuted certainly) and it may be the status quo, that does not mean we have no right to want better of society, and to work towards change by raising awareness of the problem. Just because the constant threat of harassment is considered normal at the moment doesn't mean that it should be allowed to stay that way.

What you wear sends different messages to people - the amount of skin you show especially. You go out showing a bunch of skin, you have no right to be angry when you get comments or the odd guy getting close to you. It's ridiculous how many women think they can do this and still act like that random guy committed the worst crime in the world. I become more of a man-apologist every time I see stuff like this happening. You'd see it all the time at (off-campus of course) parties in the University I went to.

I doubt that most women who dress to show some skin are trying to send the message of "Harass me! Grope me! Follow me home!" A message of "Look at me, I feel attractive" is more likely-- attention is frequently a motivator, specifically positive attention. Not threatening attention. Once again, REVEALING CLOTHING DOES NOT GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO START TOUCHING WITHOUT ASKING.

"Comments" is a very vague term, it could mean either compliments or harassment given context. Harassment is never a right.

Hell, I get catcalled on a semi-regular basis, for an entirely different reason (dressing in a distinctly masculine manner while possessing some clearly female features attracts unwanted attention). It does not come as some big surprise to me, but that doesn't mean it's okay, and it doesn't negate my right to tell people who call out to me to piss off. And I don't see it changing anytime soon, but that doesn't make it okay either, and that doesn't mean I'm wrong for working towards a society that doesn't consider that element of harassment to be normal.

Nobody would care if Kai made a thread saying some girl started feeling him up on the train, in fact he'd have been cheered on. (of course, because I depicted this response in a negative light I will get a lot of people saying "oh I would never have said that")

Modern society is pretty abysmal when it comes to admitting that men can be and are harassed. That doesn't mean that it's okay for men to be harassed, either-- it is a problem, as is the fallacy that "men can't be harassed". This is, however, a separate issue. We can certainly discuss it-- this thread is hardly limited-- but recognize that "what about the dudes" is not going to further the discussion that is currently taking place.

TL;DR Just because harassment is currently considered a normal part of society doesn't mean that it should be, and doesn't mean that it shouldn't be protested.

[Thor Odinson]

They're not, just too drunk to do much about it, about a month ago there was a late 40 something looking guy trying to get with a girl who was about my age. Quite a bit of wtf ensued when he buggered off for whatever reason.

Hence I said some. Maybe their intentions was that? Not saying most do, of course. Most are just there to have fun, persumably.

I thought some chicks go there to pick up dudes like dudes go to pick up chicks.

IDK. Either way, I don't particularly plan on going clubbing since it's not my idea of fun.

those chicks who are too drunk but don't want creepy dudes touching them should learn drunken fist

Edited November 18, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[Rei Rei]

awww que lindo

Just saw this. Hilarious

[Tangerine]

Legality does not equal it being okay, and it does not equal consent.

If they aren't doing something that will get them in trouble then you get in trouble if you respond with force. That is the message I am trying to get through to people who are discussing it. Even then you can still get in trouble for responding with force - more trouble than they would get in for harassment.

The fact that being harassed is made more likely by being dressed in a revealing manner DOES NOT MEAN that dressing in a revealing manner is ASKING for harassment. No article of clothing is capable of voiding someone's rights to decide in what ways and by whom their body is allowed to be touched. Cleavage is NOT the same as saying "I am okay with being touched by random strangers." Just because it is LIKELY that harassment will occur does NOT mean that the fault lies with the victim; it still lies with the harasser, who has decided that they are entitled to touch without asking. Or to simplify, just because harassment is a likely outcome in current society does not mean that it is not a problem.

Perhaps "asking" was the wrong word, but if you dress that way and understand the repercussions then that's on your back.

In such a situation, someone would be completely within their rights in telling someone to stop touching them, or in moving their hands away, etc. They would also be within their rights to take further methods (preferably contacting staff of the establishment they're in) if the harasser refuses to stop, or gets worse. I also don't see the part where someone in this thread said that violence was a justified immediate response to being groped in such a setting, why do you keep responding as though someone has advocated violence as the first solution?

Sure, I don't see where I ever said you can't tell anyone to stop. They would not be within their rights to respond to that with violence unless the other person escalates the situation themselves.

Also, even though it may be legal (and I find it hard to believe that any unwanted touching is actually legal, though it is unlikely to be prosecuted certainly) and it may be the status quo, that does not mean we have no right to want better of society, and to work towards change by raising awareness of the problem. Just because the constant threat of harassment is considered normal at the moment doesn't mean that it should be allowed to stay that way.

It is commonplace and will have no action taken against it currently, outside of more serious cases. Women need to take steps to prevent these situations themselves for as long as it is. Maybe it is not their fault for being harassed, but it is utter stupidity if you honestly do not expect harassment if you wear revealing clothing. The risk is there, women who are aware of it and wear revealing clothing regardless are just as at fault as the guys who make rude comments or believe they may be looking for a good time. They are certainly not at fault for the guys who physically harass them, but it is a risk they took knowing what could result.

I doubt that most women who dress to show some skin are trying to send the message of "Harass me! Grope me! Follow me home!" A message of "Look at me, I feel attractive" is more likely-- attention is frequently a motivator, specifically positive attention. Not threatening attention. Once again, REVEALING CLOTHING DOES NOT GIVE PEOPLE THE RIGHT TO START TOUCHING WITHOUT ASKING.

Uh, you don't party much do you? There are TONS of women who dress skimpy for the sake of attracting a sex partner. TONS. Nobody dresses to attract a creepy stalker, which is all your example encompasses. "Follow me home"? Come on, get real.

It is exactly like Lumi said.

TL;DR Just because harassment is currently considered a normal part of society doesn't mean that it should be, and doesn't mean that it shouldn't be protested.

I don't care. It exists, is commonplace and can largely be prevented by dressing differently. There are always going to be bad guys like the one described in this thread's OP. But if you're on the club scene dressed a certain way, expect to see guys getting the wrong idea. Which is what my post that you just responded to was in reference to. The club scene.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Tangerine