Finally making my own, personal, rating topic/tier list.

[Life]

Four times. There's a Raven in chapter 12 which drops another one. So that's enough for once for 10 through 14, he could just go about recruiting Stefan in 15 before he gets access to the band I guess.

Which is a great argument... until you realize that Reyson joins in Chapter 18 and uses those stones better than Mordecai can due to also starting with 0 gauge.

[Snowy_One]

I agree. Reyson is a better use for the stones. That said, Mordi is not a bad use of them either. Just because you are not the best does not mean you are the worst or a poor choice.

[CrashGordon94]

Plus it might be worthwhile in situations where you have Mordy but not Reyson, like a draft.

It might not be what you're wanting to rank but still, it seems that you're trying to account for many different situations.

[Integrity]

Oh, I wasn't trying to argue that Mordecai should have any claim on any charges of the Laguz Stone. I was merely pointing out that the review says he cannot transform before turn 5 before Chapter 16, and that this isn't true.

[Snowy_One]

Alright... I KNOW Life is going to throw a fit at me... so might as well get this over with.

Stefan.

Stefan is a Swordsmaster who is recruited in chapter 15 by sending either Lethe or Mordi to the upper-right second of the map and standing on one specific square. When they stand on that square, he will appear and join your team as a pre-promoted swordsmaster. Titania and Pedodan aside, he will likely be your first 'promoted' unit as well. He... is a pretty okay unit overall. When Stefan joins, his stats are already pretty high. His SPD alone is at endgame levels and faster than some units who are ranked high at 20/20. His SKL is only two points away from capping out at 29, and he comes with the sizable STR of 19 (Titania doesn't get this until level 16 and Boyd until he promotes, though both can take +ATT supports to help this out). In fact, he's a pretty solid unit all around... except for two flaws.

The first, and by far the lesser, flaw is that he comes with Astra. Astra is, aside from Parity quite possibly the only skill in the game which is actually worse than having no skill to actually have. While being able to dump in a load of attacks in one turn sounds nice, since they are at half-damage, it is simply better to go with the double unless the enemy is REALLY that tough, at which point you would probably want to go with the critical instead (and not Astra).

The second flaw, however, is far greater. Stefan has **** for luck. Luck is the scrappy stat of this game. It affects too little to really matter... except that it also protects you from critical hits. Normally units get enough luck to negate this problem entirely, but Stefan does not. At most he has 10 luck, which means that, not only can normal enemies score critcal hits on him, but enemies with critical bonuses also get much larger bonuses. For example, Lucia has 6 more luck than Stefan. Against a enemy wielding a killer, that's the difference between 20% chance and 14% chance, which is NOT a small amount. Stefan at least needs one luck icon to help him become uncrittable, but even with both, he struggles with the issue of the fact that he's running a much greater risk of pain every time he fights a enemy with a critical boost than any other unit.

What about his good things though? Well, Stefan joins as a very powerful unit. With 19 STR, even though he is sword-locked, he is easily a strong fighter until the later chapters in the game. With his high SPD, he is guarenteed to double. His only real 'weak-point' is his somewhat low DEF (standard for SM) and that once mounted units start promoting he will have trouble keeping up. He is the only person who can wield the VK and the Silver Blade early in the game, until Ike/other SM promote at least as well (hey, wouldn't one of them make a good scroll-use? Using a scroll to wield the strongest non-forged/unique sword in the game?). Additionally... Swordsmasters are FREAKING AMAZING at customization!

Take any swordsmaster. Zihark, Mia, Stefan, or Lucia. All get a unique boost to their critical hit rating of +15 on promotion and all have naturally high SKL. This means that, every attack they make has a higher-than-normal chance of either critting or activating a skill. Vantage, adept, wrath, counter, guard, and even gamble are far more useful in the hands of a SM than any other class. Near 30/15% activation rates and the ability to be far more likely to score critical hits off their attacks than any other class. Vantage alone on a swordmaster is a terror as they will end up with a ~20% chance to kill a enemy before they even attack, and Stefan is no exception to this rule. In fact, Stefan is one of two people who can even use gamble. Natural skill of 29 (58 hit) + 10 from luck + 75 from a KE + 25 from a A/B support = 168, which, when divided, equals 84% hit chance with gamble active which means a 84% chance of a critical hit (He likely has 20 innate and a KE offers 30 which doubles to 100)!

Speed: 3.5: Stefan is powerful when he joins... half-way through the game. Despite that he remains powerful until units start promoting and never becomes actually 'weak' just 'outclassed' by paladins. A problem shared by the majority of the characters.

Flexibility: 3.5: His main problem is that, while he is powerful, he can't really do much until chapter 16 (his joining location makes him too difficult to use in 15... and Astra). That aside, he is not a weak unit and can be highly useful, especially with all the skills at his disposal. Blame the paladins for not making this a 4.5 though.

Customization: 4: HELLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOO CRITBONUS!

[aku chi]

The first, and by far the lesser, flaw is that he comes with Astra. Astra is, aside from Parity quite possibly the only skill in the game which is actually worse than having no skill to actually have. While being able to dump in a load of attacks in one turn sounds nice, since they are at half-damage, it is simply better to go with the double unless the enemy is REALLY that tough, at which point you would probably want to go with the critical instead (and not Astra).

Astra is actually a decent skill and by no means worse than nothing. While a single crit (x3) deals more damage than 5 regular Astra attacks (x2.5), that is not a relevant comparison, because Astra and criticals do not compete for activation. One can crit after Astra is activated (and considering one gets 5 attacks, the likelihood of a crit is much greater). Astra simply increases the likelihood that Stefan will ORKO when he fails to 2HKO (an increasingly common scenario in later chapters) at the cost of the occasional weapon use or two.

On the the topic of skills that may be worse than nothing, Tempest, Blossom (especially in fixed mode), Corrosion, and Provoke (Shinon post-C18) should be mentioned along with Parity.

[Life]

The first, and by far the lesser, flaw is that he comes with Astra. Astra is, aside from Parity quite possibly the only skill in the game which is actually worse than having no skill to actually have. While being able to dump in a load of attacks in one turn sounds nice, since they are at half-damage, it is simply better to go with the double unless the enemy is REALLY that tough, at which point you would probably want to go with the critical instead (and not Astra).

flaw1    [flaw] Show IPA

noun

1. a feature that mars the perfection of something; defect; fault: beauty without flaw; the flaws in our plan.

2. a defect impairing legal soundness or validity.

3. a crack, break, breach, or rent.

Since when is Astra locked to Stefan? If I take it off of him, flaw doesn't exist anymore. That was the silliest argument I've ever heard.

The second flaw, however, is far greater. Stefan has **** for luck. Luck is the scrappy stat of this game. It affects too little to really matter... except that it also protects you from critical hits. Normally units get enough luck to negate this problem entirely, but Stefan does not. At most he has 10 luck, which means that, not only can normal enemies score critcal hits on him, but enemies with critical bonuses also get much larger bonuses. For example, Lucia has 6 more luck than Stefan. Against a enemy wielding a killer, that's the difference between 20% chance and 14% chance, which is NOT a small amount. Stefan at least needs one luck icon to help him become uncrittable, but even with both, he struggles with the issue of the fact that he's running a much greater risk of pain every time he fights a enemy with a critical boost than any other unit.

I take that back. THIS is the silliest argument I've ever heard.

Let's say that Boyd gets 3HKO'd by enemies. 3 enemies attack him and Boyd has about a ~8% chance of getting hit by all three. Does this mean he's terrible? For the record, this means that he's facing about 45 Hit rates.

The chance of Boyd getting 3HKO'd by three enemies and dying due to shitty RNG is the exact same as Stefan being critical'd by one. You're attempting to use luck as a negative against Stefan. I didn't see you mention this for Nephenee. Try being consistent with your arguments for once.

What about his good things though? Well, Stefan joins as a very powerful unit. With 19 STR, even though he is sword-locked, he is easily a strong fighter until the later chapters in the game.

Until? Are you trying to imply that 19+50% Str and hilarious Crit with Killing Edges has him slowing down at the end of the game? That should read "for the rest of the game".

With his high SPD, he is guarenteed to double. His only real 'weak-point' is his somewhat low DEF (standard for SM) and that once mounted units start promoting he will have trouble keeping up.

Which I proved is pointless since his base Def lets him be deployed at base level 9 chapters after joining and still not having durability problems. Check the debate thread. And the Vague Katti gives off +3 Def and he uses it better than Mia/Zihark/Ike thanks to actual reliable Hit with Gamble.

Take any swordsmaster. Zihark, Mia, Stefan, or Lucia. All get a unique boost to their critical hit rating of +15 on promotion and all have naturally high SKL. This means that, every attack they make has a higher-than-normal chance of either critting or activating a skill. Vantage, adept, wrath, counter, guard, and even gamble are far more useful in the hands of a SM than any other class. Near 30/15% activation rates and the ability to be far more likely to score critical hits off their attacks than any other class. Vantage alone on a swordmaster is a terror as they will end up with a ~20% chance to kill a enemy before they even attack, and Stefan is no exception to this rule. In fact, Stefan is one of two people who can even use gamble. Natural skill of 29 (58 hit) + 10 from luck + 75 from a KE + 25 from a A/B support = 168, which, when divided, equals 84% hit chance with gamble active which means a 84% chance of a critical hit (He likely has 20 innate and a KE offers 30 which doubles to 100)!

Gamble should be going to Stefan without a doubt. He uses it better than anyone and can ORKO pretty much any existing boss in conjunction with just a Killing Edge or specialized weaponry. For example, Gromell is a ORKO with the Killing Edge and that motherfucker's parameters are 47 HP and 23 Def. Stefan still doubles the man when he's in Resolve range.

Speed: 3.5: Stefan is powerful when he joins... half-way through the game. Despite that he remains powerful until units start promoting and never becomes actually 'weak' just 'outclassed' by paladins. A problem shared by the majority of the characters.

Flexibility: 3.5: His main problem is that, while he is powerful, he can't really do much until chapter 16 (his joining location makes him too difficult to use in 15... and Astra). That aside, he is not a weak unit and can be highly useful, especially with all the skills at his disposal. Blame the paladins for not making this a 4.5 though.

Customization: 4: HELLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOO CRITBONUS!

Rating is fair but your reasoning for it is incorrect. It's like the retard who got the answer to a really hard physics question but when asked to show how he got it, he drew a fish on the board. Lucky guess.

[Snowy_One]

Since when is Astra locked to Stefan? If I take it off of him, flaw doesn't exist anymore. That was the silliest argument I've ever heard.

I said this mainly because I don't want to hear 'Astra is awesome, give him more points' arguments. Especially since it REALLY sucks!

Let's say that Boyd gets 3HKO'd by enemies. 3 enemies attack him and Boyd has about a ~8% chance of getting hit by all three. Does this mean he's terrible? For the record, this means that he's facing about 45 Hit rates.

The chance of Boyd getting 3HKO'd by three enemies and dying due to shitty RNG is the exact same as Stefan being critical'd by one. You're attempting to use luck as a negative against Stefan. I didn't see you mention this for Nephenee. Try being consistent with your arguments for once.

If every other unit in the game was facing ~0% hit rates while Boyd faced those 8% hit rates, then yes I would count it as a mark against him. After all, that's a 8% chance of death compared to every other units 0% chance of death. Stefan is the only unit in the game whom normal enemies not using crit-boosted weapons can get critical hit-rates on. Nephenee, by comparison, gets Stefan's endgame luck by 20/3. That's a lot earlier than Stefan. That's why I didn't count it as a mark against her. Her luck is bad, yes, but it's at least high enough for her to juuuuust scrape by without facing regular critical chances.

And before you say it, remember, 'Anything that can go wrong, will'.

Until? Are you trying to imply that 19+50% Str and hilarious Crit with Killing Edges has him slowing down at the end of the game? That should read "for the rest of the game".

Stefan is sword-locked and caps out at 24 STR and can only get up to 25 ATT before weapon MT max. That is a slowdown (and yes, you will see it get mentioned with Mia and the other swordsmasters).

Which I proved is pointless since his base Def lets him be deployed at base level 9 chapters after joining and still not having durability problems. Check the debate thread. And the Vague Katti gives off +3 Def and he uses it better than Mia/Zihark/Ike thanks to actual reliable Hit with Gamble.

I was unaware that 'somewhat low' meant 'awful'. Not to mention Stefan's DEF IS lower than most other melee-units (not to mention the WTD)

Gamble should be going to Stefan without a doubt. He uses it better than anyone and can ORKO pretty much any existing boss in conjunction with just a Killing Edge or specialized weaponry. For example, Gromell is a ORKO with the Killing Edge and that motherfucker's parameters are 47 HP and 23 Def. Stefan still doubles the man when he's in Resolve range.

Maybe, but this isn't some version of FE where not being the best means you don't get something. All the SM can use Gamble well and all will be awarded for how well they can use gamble, Stefan just has the highest hit rate.

On the the topic of skills that may be worse than nothing, Tempest, Blossom (especially in fixed mode), Corrosion, and Provoke (Shinon post-C18) should be mentioned along with Parity.

Tempest and Blossom are Bio-rythem focused skills which makes them kinda... useless. Blossom is on a thief who isn't being used for his stats and can't promote, Corrosion doesn't actually make a unit worse (it's worthless, but being worthless isn't the same as actually hurting), Provoke is pointless on Shinon since any unit that can hit him will likely do so anyways regardless of if he has the skill on or not.

[Life]

If every other unit in the game was facing ~0% hit rates while Boyd faced those 8% hit rates, then yes I would count it as a mark against him. After all, that's a 8% chance of death compared to every other units 0% chance of death. Stefan is the only unit in the game whom normal enemies not using crit-boosted weapons can get critical hit-rates on. Nephenee, by comparison, gets Stefan's endgame luck by 20/3. That's a lot earlier than Stefan. That's why I didn't count it as a mark against her. Her luck is bad, yes, but it's at least high enough for her to juuuuust scrape by without facing regular critical chances.

And before you say it, remember, 'Anything that can go wrong, will'.

You still don't get it. You're trying to dock a mark for the fact that bad luck may or may not happen. This is complete bullshit in a game where bad luck can happen in more ways than one.

Stefan is sword-locked and caps out at 24 STR and can only get up to 25 ATT before weapon MT max. That is a slowdown (and yes, you will see it get mentioned with Mia and the other swordsmasters).

Excuse me for a second. Let's take a look at what Stefan ORKOs with a Forged Silver Sword. That's 42 Attack.

Endgame Paladins have ~40 HP and 20 Def. ORKO.

One of the Cats have about 46 HP and 18 Def. ORKO.

Halberdiers have about ~45 HP and 17 Def. ORKO.

Sniper has 36 HP and 15 Def. ORKO.

Warrior has 55 HP and 15 Def. ORKO.

Swordmasters have ~40 HP and ~13 Def. ORKO. He'll miss ORKOing the level 17 one due to it having 26 AS.

Sage/Bishop are almost a OHKO.

Where is Stefan slowing down offensively? By needing a crit to ORKO Tigers, Generals and Wyvern Lords? Not even Jill or Marcia can ORKO those guys. Your standards are all over the place.

For the record, Mia's base is 22 Str and she struggles to hit that. Zihark also has a 24 Str base but he has a 10 Str base working against him. On average he only just maxes Str at 20/20. It's safer to say that he'll be screwed more than he'll be blessed. And both of them have pretty shitty supports at this point in the game. What, we're toting Rhys' ass to the finish line just to have Mia equal what Stefan does without blinking? Or Brom's, for that matter? I'll pass.

I was unaware that 'somewhat low' meant 'awful'. Not to mention Stefan's DEF IS lower than most other melee-units (not to mention the WTD)

You tried to play it up as bad. It's not. It's workable. It's not beast like Haar's or Jill's but it's not a problem given his natural high Avo.

[Anouleth]

I don't think Stefan should be above Nephenee.

[Snowy_One]

You still don't get it. You're trying to dock a mark for the fact that bad luck may or may not happen. This is complete bullshit in a game where bad luck can happen in more ways than one.

Anything that can go wrong, will. The fact remains that he is the only unit in the game whom normal enemies can score critical hits on.

For the record, Mia's base is 22 Str and she struggles to hit that. Zihark also has a 24 Str base but he has a 10 Str base working against him. On average he only just maxes Str at 20/20. It's safer to say that he'll be screwed more than he'll be blessed. And both of them have pretty shitty supports at this point in the game.

And the point of this is... what again? I already said I wasn't going to give the swordmasters a free pass for not being Stefan and they would be subject to the same things he is. Besides, look at his non-SM competition. Ike is a brute and gets a 1-2 range sword and every other unit ends up with greater movement, better concrete durability, and a better weapon-type. I would certainly consider that 'slow down' if anything.

What, we're toting Rhys' ass to the finish line just to have Mia equal what Stefan does without blinking? Or Brom's, for that matter? I'll pass.

Yes. Why the hell not? I mean, you can't go out on a limb and assume that players won't go through the effort to keep supports effective just because you don't care so much about them.

You tried to play it up as bad. It's not. It's workable. It's not beast like Haar's or Jill's but it's not a problem given his natural high Avo.

So, in your own words, Stefan's own defense, while not awful, is workable, but just isn't as good as other units? Isn't that, you know, pretty much exactly what I said?

I don't think Stefan should be above Nephenee.

I agree. I think his SPD score should drop a little bit to be exact due to late joining and maybe a sliver off his flexibility as well.

[Life]

Anything that can go wrong, will. The fact remains that he is the only unit in the game whom normal enemies can score critical hits on.

And the fact remains that any given unit on any given day can get hit by three sub-50 hits and die. The chance of it happening is the exact same (if not higher) as Stefan looking at ~3% Crit. Either be consistent or blatantly state that you're going to sandbag someone because you don't like the direction that his hair spikes in or something silly like that.

And the point of this is... what again? I already said I wasn't going to give the swordmasters a free pass for not being Stefan and they would be subject to the same things he is. Besides, look at his non-SM competition. Ike is a brute and gets a 1-2 range sword and every other unit ends up with greater movement, better concrete durability, and a better weapon-type. I would certainly consider that 'slow down' if anything.

It's nice if you don't pull shit out of context and then attack that.

The point was to show that Stefan does not come close to slowing down his offensive roll from the time that he joins until the end of the game. I just brought out Mia and Zihark as proof that nobody can keep up with him.

Yes. Why the hell not? I mean, you can't go out on a limb and assume that players won't go through the effort to keep supports effective just because you don't care so much about them.

Then your rankings are flawed. I've told you this a million times.

Mia's offense even with a Rhys support cannot match Stefan's. He hits his cap of 24 easily, she struggles to break 20 Str. And these maps are huge with Rhys being out of Mia's range by turn 4. Same idea for Brom/Zihark. If we're turtling our way through the maps, then your rankings are fine. But since you claimed we weren't, then you're arbitrarily docking points for absolutely no reason (ooh, Stefan tends to have bad luck against him! Let's dock him for it!). For the ten millionth time, stay consistent.

So, in your own words, Stefan's own defense, while not awful, is workable, but just isn't as good as other units? Isn't that, you know, pretty much exactly what I said?

Go back and look at what I highlighted. Somewhat-Low =/= Average. You might want to go back to grade school if you seem to confuse the two.

[aku chi]

Corrosion doesn't actually make a unit worse (it's worthless, but being worthless isn't the same as actually hurting)

Some enemies carry valuable weapons which they drop upon death. Corrosion has a chance to reduce the number of uses of these weapons before they are dropped. Hence, Corrosion is generally worse than nothing. Unlike Astra.

[Anouleth]

I thought that Corrosion was glitched and didn't actually have any effect.

In addition, Stefan is not the only one with luck issues. there's also Gatrie, who frequently faces critical chances from thunder mages.

[Snowy_One]

And the fact remains that any given unit on any given day can get hit by three sub-50 hits and die. The chance of it happening is the exact same (if not higher) as Stefan looking at ~3% Crit. Either be consistent or blatantly state that you're going to sandbag someone because you don't like the direction that his hair spikes in or something silly like that.

Would you play Russian roulette with one bullet in a 100 barrel gun, or none?

Besides, let's look at some hard facts. Stefan has 30 SPD tops. That's 60 AVO. 10 more from luck, 70. 5/7.5 from a Soren B/A as well. Meaning at best he has 77.5 AVO. Against lance users, they get a hit bonus because WTA.

In chapter 16 alone almost all non-warrior enemies get a ~20-30% hit chance on him. If that sort of ratio (most enemies getting a 1/3 hit chance and 1/3 of enemies getting a critical rate of 1) holds, then the odds that Stefan will get critted once throughout the course of a playthrough are high enough to be considered.

And Life... I don't hate Stefan. If I did, don't you think I could have easily sandbagged his joining time or lack of supports? I hate all the love you seem to shower on him though, as I am sure you feel I do for Mia as well.

The point was to show that Stefan does not come close to slowing down his offensive roll from the time that he joins until the end of the game. I just brought out Mia and Zihark as proof that nobody can keep up with him.

You also took a very narrow viewpoint of the situation and ignored several other factors that will end up helping Mia and Zihark (better skill loadouts for example) in the endgame and ignored that other units gain the advantage of superior weapon typing and movement on him to make that claim. I do not see any credible evidence that Stefan does not slow down endgame compared to other units beyond your comparison to Mia/Zihark, who are also both swordsmasters and both (in my experience) frequently knocked for being weak endgame.

Then your rankings are flawed. I've told you this a million times.

Different =/= flawed.

Disagreeing with you =/= flawed.

You are assuming that all players are playing from a tier perspective and rushing ahead with the goal and intent of fast chapter completion and/or are so uncaring about supports as to be incapable of keeping two units with similar movement near each other as your basis. Your own words betray this (Mia struggling to break 20 STR is a problem that doesn't always exist and has multiple cures, from strength bands to leveling her above 20/15 and can be at least addressed with forged weapons). You do not like supports. You like Stefan. I get it. I also do not think that this argument is relevant to the ranking of this character beyond the notion that he has a easier time getting more strength than Mia.

Mia's offense even with a Rhys support cannot match Stefan's. He hits his cap of 24 easily, she struggles to break 20 Str. And these maps are huge with Rhys being out of Mia's range by turn 4. Same idea for Brom/Zihark. If we're turtling our way through the maps, then your rankings are fine. But since you claimed we weren't, then you're arbitrarily docking points for absolutely no reason (ooh, Stefan tends to have bad luck against him! Let's dock him for it!). For the ten millionth time, stay consistent.

Where did I claim I was disregarding turteling? I am considering turtling, as well as speed plays, power plays, low level runs, high level runs, solos, and generally trying to consider and keep track of every possible playstyle that could be used. Also 'tends'? He DOES have bad luck! He's constantly facing critical hits! No other unit I have reviewed has this problem! If, say, Nephenee's luck was lower, I might have, but it isn't.

Go back and look at what I highlighted. Somewhat-Low =/= Average. You might want to go back to grade school if you seem to confuse the two.

Would still be a whole school-level above you.

The word 'average' has only come up three times on this entire page (well, four times now). Your first bit talking about this was telling me to go check the debate thread, how he can be deployed in 24 without durability problems, and how he can use a unique sword that isn't restricted to him to boost his defense up. The reply to this was me pointing out that 'Somewhat low =/= awful' and that his defense is, factually, lower on average than most melee units (and he gets a WTD). Your response to that was saying that I was still trying to play it up as bad even though it was workable still, to which I replied that, while Stefan's defense is not awful, is workable and simply just isn't as good as that of other units... you know... below average? And your GREAT RESPONSE THAT SHOULD SEND ME BACK TO GRADE SCHOOL IS... that 'somewhat low =/= average'...

...

...

*Facepalm*

This is probably the only time I will ever link a photo in this topic and probably the only time I will ever link a facepalm, must less a Picard facepalm and much less one with both Picard and Ricker in it. Treasure it.

Now, back to business... What? Seriously. What? How is this even relevant? I can't even see what your argument here is. You would have had MUCH better luck inflating his score if you had simply acknowledged he ends up with low defense and instead focused on his ability to be deployed nine chapters later and still be durable. At least I would have considered that a plus for flexibility. As is, do you even HAVE a argument?

Some enemies carry valuable weapons which they drop upon death. Corrosion has a chance to reduce the number of uses of these weapons before they are dropped. Hence, Corrosion is generally worse than nothing. Unlike Astra.

I'll take your word for it. Most of the stuff seems either highly situational or very general, but sure. Okay. Corrosion is worse than no skill at all.

In addition, Stefan is not the only one with luck issues. there's also Gatrie, who frequently faces critical chances from thunder mages.

Well, first off, Gatrie ends up with 12 luck, which is just enough to scrape by most common enemies. He gets 10 at 20/10 as well. I'll grant that he has trouble reaching that without serious aid, but how much aid he needs to reach 20/10 or 20/20 is independent of if he has enough luck to get critted by norms or not. Secondly, thunder mages get +5 critical on their weapons. They're the one enemy without a innate critical boost skill that I'm not shocked to see scoring criticals. Thirdly, even if Gatrie DOES get critted, he's got 58 HP and 30 DEF to fall back on as well as possibly the KW and maybe a Ilyana/Shinon support as well to boost him up meaning he can get up to 38 DEF (While I agree that Shinon is a bad choice to play, the support itself isn't THAT bad). That's quite a bit more concrete durability than Stefan's 46 HP and 16 (possibly 17) DEF.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Sirius

[Anouleth]

Wel, I was thinking more after he immediately joins ather than towards the end of the game.

[Snowy_One]

Hmmm... Even if he leveled up twice with his time in the GM's, the most he will possibly have is 7... Okay, it is a fair concern and I see that now.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i was under the impression Stefan wasn't as good because he didn't have as good of dodge rate due to his Support choices and low luck.

not to say he's terrible, he's quite handy in afew siturations.

[arvilino]

His low luck is something but scrolling through the HM enemy stats thread, 7 luck is enough to come up against 0 crit rates from the vast majority of enemies even on hard mode(and then 8,9,10 for the last few enemies that don't have crit bonus or crit bonus weapons). Chapter 16 isn't an issue because there's an Ashera Icon very early in the chapter, or there's the one earlier in the game if you didn't sell it for gold.

I think his luck deficiency is a bit overblown when it comes to Snipers/Swordsmen or Killer weapon enemies.

At most he has 10 luck, which means that, not only can normal enemies score critcal hits on him, but enemies with critical bonuses also get much larger bonuses. For example, Lucia has 6 more luck than Stefan. Against a enemy wielding a killer, that's the difference between 20% chance and 14% chance, which is NOT a small amount

At that sort of crit rate Lucia's luck isn't as effective. She's still more than half as likely as Stefan to take a critical hit(even if Stefan still had 5 luck thats 14% against 25% which is still less than twice as likely). At which point HP and Defense are the thing that matters as there's still a significant chance both will take a critical. It's only really more effective towards the lower crit rates unless a character has extremely high luck.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

this reminds me of an joke i read on gamefaqs today.

Why couldn't Stefan find the white gem right outside his house/joining space?

He has bad LUCK.

[Lord Raven]

I don't get how it was a joke.

[Snowy_One]

I apologize for the delay in this new review. I drew Tanith originally and was trying to write up a summery for her, but I kept ping-ponging between 'she sucks because she joins late and ends up sort of meh' and 'she's awesome because of her bases and flexibility' which caused her to go from a score of 6 to 12 simply depending on how I wanted to look at it. Out of sheer frustration, I decided to redraw.

New Character!: Calill!

Calill is, in my opinion, a near perfect example of a character who should really suck, but due to how the game is played, ends up scoring high. On the current tier list, she ranks in the upper-mid above the swordmasters and Ilyana, which is something I REALLY disagree with. However... I do see their point. Though she is a late-joiner, she comes with fairly solid bases, enough strength to wield siege tomes, and her lack of using staves doesn't count for as much as sages are not expected to be big healers or anything of the sort. So from a LTC perspective, though she doesn't improve too much, other sages are brought lower. That being said, I am not a LTC player, nor is this list focused only on LTC.

I don't like Calill. In my eye, her irritating personality, lack of staff flexibility, late joining time, and weak support list make her a character utterly dislikable and in the 'below average tier' (before you say it, no I don't factor in personality into how a character gets ranked. I still dislike Calill's). Coming at chapter 20, the game is already 2/3rds over before she can even do anything. By the time she comes, I've had access to three different sages for longer, two from the early game, and the last one having Celerity. All of these sages have access to staves, likely for some time now, and what does Calill come with? KNIVES! How worthless. Her joining skill is almost completely worthless (are there even any non-boss enemies who use skills?). Soren and Tormod have Adept and Celerity and, while we aren't clear if Shade even does anything, if it even does one tiny thing and makes one enemy not attack her when they should have throughout the entire game it is probably worth more than Nihil. So what is Calill's advantage?

She has high weapon ranks in every element meaning she can use all the siege tomes and enough strength to potentially double with them. That's it. While she isn't as slow as Ilyana, her overall stats are not better than the three mages in any notable way (weapon ranks aside), her skill is worthless, and her supports... are not bad (Nephenee, Tormod, and Geoffry), but not terribly notable. Sure, Nephenee doesn't really have any better options in the likely event that either Brom or Devdan aren't played, Tormod can't rely on Sothe and if Devdan isn't played, he only has Calill for a non-Reyson support, but even so... Nephenee grants 1 attack and some AVO, which is nice, sure, but... ehhhh... simply due to the lateness (won't be done until 23/25) I'm not overwhelmed. Likewise, Tormod would really like the attack, but due to late joining...

Well... Time to rank.

Speed: 3: I'm going to be generous here and trust that there is a reason she made upper-mid in the tier-lists. I simply do not see it though. She's not around until the final third of the game, and her only advantage is siege tomes which are both frail and... we likely can use bolting already, so it's only Meteor and Blizzard that matter. Other sages have advantages I simply feel are worth more to more styles of play than her.

Flexibility: 1.5: Calill joins late, lacks a valuable asset that other mages have, and only makes up for it via some decent supports and siege tomes. If Calill didn't have those two things, she would probably get a 1 here. Low movement, no support abilities, and such... would be really bad for team support and flexibility. It's only through her capabilities with those items that she has any degree of flexibility in the team.

Customization: 2.5: Calill sucks in terms of customization. There really isn't all that much that you can do with her, or any mage, really. There are few skills mages really make good use of that she can use. This isn't a matter of 'well her joining skill isn't too useful' so much as 'what can I give a made that could even matter?' Pretty much the only thing I can really see myself doing with Calill is maybe giving her the dusts, but that's hardly something unique to her. She doesn't require much, but doesn't give much in return either.

Overall. 7/15: I really don't see what is so special about Calill, especially when looking at the game from a non-LTC perspective. She joins late and doesn't really do anything unique and lacks something that the mages have which they can at least use constructively. I don't know what I can really say beyond 'she simply doesn't impress me'.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Snowy_One

[aku chi]

Her joining skill is almost completely worthless (are there even any non-boss enemies who use skills?).

Yes. There are quite a number of generic enemies with skills in the Endgame chapter. Not that Calill's Nihil is particularly noteworthy.

So what is Calill's advantage?

She doesn't need to be babied or fed Bexp to contribute.

Speed: 3: I'm going to be generous here and trust that there is a reason she made upper-mid in the tier-lists. I simply do not see it though. She's not around until the final third of the game, and her only advantage is siege tomes which are both frail and... we likely can use bolting already, so it's only Meteor and Blizzard that matter.

1) Siege tomes are the most powerful tomes in the game (excepting Rexbolt); the exact opposite of frail. If they weren't so darn rare, I'd use them exclusively.

2) There is a Bolting in C22. Not that there's much reason to use the C16 Bolting before C20 anyway.

Flexibility: 2: Calill joins late, lacks a valuable asset that other mages have, and only makes up for it via some decent supports and siege tomes. If Calill didn't have those two things, she would probably get a 1 here.

You should probably mention starting with B ranks in Wind, Fire, and Thunder here. It's pretty much impossible for any of the mages to be able to wield all three siege tomes without an Arms Scroll or two, so Calill can always fill in the missing gaps and make use of those excellent siege tomes. Calill also has room to work towards wielding Thoron or Bolganone, so she doesn't need a forge to 2HKO (less important). If that isn't flexibility, I don't know what is.

[Snowy_One]

She doesn't need to be babied or fed Bexp to contribute.

I might see that as more of an advantage if she didn't come so late in the game. Simply by opting to use Soren/Ilyana, I basically gain an additional 2/1 third of the game on her. I can see that mattering much more across multiple playstyles than simply not needing BEXP will.

1) Siege tomes are the most powerful tomes in the game (excepting Rexbolt); the exact opposite of frail. If they weren't so darn rare, I'd use them exclusively.

They have only 5 uses before breaking. They are frail. They don't even have really impressive MT (bolting deals 4 more damage than a forged thunder) and, unless I am mistaken, Meteor requires stealing to get (and will likely have 1-2 uses taken off via enemy). I'm not terribly impressed.

2) There is a Bolting in C22. Not that there's much reason to use the C16 Bolting before C20 anyway.

Why not? Thunder is the best weapon type for mages on average due to higher MT and the crit bonus. I have three mages who I could have been using, and two who will likely have have a B-rank in thunder by the time Calill joins assuming active combat usage. The only one who might not is Tormod.

You should probably mention starting with B ranks in Wind, Fire, and Thunder here. It's pretty much impossible for any of the mages to be able to wield all three siege tomes without an Arms Scroll or two, so Calill can always fill in the missing gaps and make use of those excellent siege tomes. Calill also has room to work towards wielding Thoron or Bolganone, so she doesn't need a forge to 2HKO (less important). If that isn't flexibility, I don't know what is.

Hmmm... It takes 180 attacks to go from E to B rank. Soren needs 510 WEXP to reach that which means he needs to attack an average of 31 times a chapter assuming base-level weapons (and not using the El-tomes outside of thunder). I... don't see it as impossible for someone to get all the way up to a triple B, just that doing so will require them to intentionally slow down and miss out on better things (like a higher staff rank to possibly use Physic or forged thunder) in order to do so... I guess that's an advantage... but not a terribly compelling one. As I said, the siege tomes are fairly frail (and the other mages will likely be able to use at least Bolting) and I don't see what is so compelling about killing 10-15 or so guys with sieges aside from in LTC runs (where they can be use to clear the way) as to make it increase her score.

Let me ask you this. If Calill couldn't use siege tomes for whatever reason (like, say, the game was bugged or something and she couldn't equip them), where would you rank her?

[aku chi]

They have only 5 uses before breaking. They are frail. They don't even have really impressive MT (bolting deals 4 more damage than a forged thunder) and, unless I am mistaken, Meteor requires stealing to get (and will likely have 1-2 uses taken off via enemy). I'm not terribly impressed.

You are mistaken: Calill joins with Meteor. Without Hammerne use or stealing (both of which are possibilities), there are up to 20 (but probably 18 or 19) anima siege tome uses available. That is quite a lot. And their Mt is impressive. Even the weakest Sage can 2HKO almost all non-boss enemies with the siege tomes. The most powerful (or over-trained) can 2HKO bosses and occasionally OHKO enemies!

Why not? Thunder is the best weapon type for mages on average due to higher MT and the crit bonus. I have three mages who I could have been using, and two who will likely have have a B-rank in thunder by the time Calill joins assuming active combat usage. The only one who might not is Tormod.

There just isn't much in chapters 17, 18, and 19 that you would want to use a siege tome on. And if you're playing with any kind of haste (even meeting the Bexp turn limits), Soren will be lucky to reach C Thunder by 17-3. But say you are training a Mage, and have them use Bolting 5 times in chapters 17, 18, or 19. There are still at least 15 anima siege tome uses left when Calill joins before C20. And unless you babied/Bexp'd your Mage, Calill will perform better with them from that point forward. But unlike the Mages, who can only use one or maybe two siege tome types if they are babied/trained, Calill can always use them all when she joins, every time.

Hmmm... It takes 180 attacks to go from E to B rank. Soren needs 510 WEXP to reach that which means he needs to attack an average of 31 times a chapter assuming base-level weapons (and not using the El-tomes outside of thunder). I... don't see it as impossible for someone to get all the way up to a triple B, just that doing so will require them to intentionally slow down and miss out on better things (like a higher staff rank to possibly use Physic or forged thunder) in order to do so...

As I said, the siege tomes are fairly frail (and the other mages will likely be able to use at least Bolting) and I don't see what is so compelling about killing 10-15 or so guys with sieges aside from in LTC runs (where they can be use to clear the way) as to make it increase her score.

I never suggested that you increase her score. You seemed confused about what makes Calill valuable. I'm trying to inform you.

Let me ask you this. If Calill couldn't use siege tomes for whatever reason (like, say, the game was bugged or something and she couldn't equip them), where would you rank her?

Below Danved, at least. Probably in company with Largo, Ranulf, and Tauroneo. Yes, siege tomes are a big deal - at least in efficient play. There are no small number of bosses that are generally too tough to ORKO. Adding a siege tome attack on top of a regular attack allows us to ORKO bosses with greater ease. C22's boss, Schaeffer, in particular, can be killed quite easily with siege tomes alone (2 attacks with a very well-trained Sage, 3 attacks from base Calill). Ballistae operators can also be ORKO'd (occasionally OHKO'd) with siege tomes from afar, enabling our fliers/Reyson to safely advance. There are tough chokepoint Generals in C27 that also make great siege tome targets. Finally, siege tomes are just helpful in general in the C25 rout, allowing your Sage to pick off enemies from afar that your other units can't handle themselves. The Mages can do some of this (and other things) with a lot of training, but Calill can always do it - and do it well.