Finally making my own, personal, rating topic/tier list.

[Snowy_One]

Several times now I've been told that, if I disagree with the current, existing tier lists, I should go out and make my own. I chose not to feeling that I would be treated as a joke. However, I realized, I'm a joke anyways! What do I have to lose? So I finally decided to make my own, personalized, list. This list isn't so much a 'tier' as it is a ranking of characters based on several (three to be precise) facets. Those are speed, flexibility, and customization. Each is *technically* independent of the others resulting in three different lists and ways to rank the characters. Speed ranks how well a character helps you move through the game as fast as possible, flexibility ranks how adaptable a character is to multiple situations and playstyles, customization deals with things like how potent a character can be and such or how costly they are to deploy effectively and such. These three categories are rated 0-5 and then the scores combined for their total ranking. You disagree with how a character was ranked, feel free to voice your concern and opinions.

Note: While decimals will be included, I'd rather get to writing the actual reviews.

15:

14:

13:

12.5:Makalov (4.5/4.5/3.5)

12:

11: Stefan (3.5 / 3.5 / 4)

10.5: Nephenee (3/4/3.5)

10:

9:

8.5: Mordi (3.5 / 3 / 2)

8: Muarim (3.5/2.5/2), Ilyana (2.5 / 3 / 2.5)

7: Lethe (4/1.5/1.5) Calill (3/1.5/2.5)

6:

5.5: Devdan ( 2 / 1.5 / 2 )

5:

4.5: Haar (1.5 / 1.5 / 1.5)

4: Volke (1.5 / 2 / 0.5) Elincia (2 / 1 / 1 ), Rolf ( 0 / 2 / 2)

3.5: Lucia: (1 / .5 / 2)

3: Janaff (1 / 1 / 1)

2:

1.5: Nasir (1/0.5/0), Bastion (0.5 / 0.5 / 0.5)

1:

0.5: Ena (0/0.5/0)

0:

Edited February 2, 2012 by Snowy_One

[Snowy_One]

Nephenee: I have chosen to rank Nephenee first as she is, what I consider to be, the closest thing this game has to a 'middle of the line' character. With lances, foot soldier movement, solid stats, but no major weaknesses or strengths (at least as pronounced as other units), she's probably as close as this game will get to a unit who neither excels or fails in any category. This doesn't mean she will be the 'middle' unit or something similar (like all units being measured against her) or that she's even the 'perfectly average unit', just the unit with the least pronounced up and downsides. The irony here is that, she DOES have pronounced up and downsides, but let's handle one thing at a time here.

Nephenee has great speed. At 20/10 she will have almost capped out, and with the Knight Ward, she can hit her speed cap a LOT sooner! Additionally, the ward grants her already solid defend a boost, which is very important and useful in multiple situations. Though her Strength is a tad lacking, her innate ability to wrath allows her a strong chance to critical, especially when combined with the vantage skill. This skill can be combined with others (such as adept) for some overall amazing customization options. Her one real shortcoming in this area is her lack of viable supports. Nephenee only has three supports, Devdan, Brom, and Joan Rivers Calill. Nephenee's element of wind makes supporting with the first two pointless (it takes a B for an attack boost and the AVO she returns is... not very useful, especially since Brom likely won't avoid and Devdan... is Devdan). Calill is her only real support option as her dark affinity gives Nephenee avoid and some attack (and likewise for Calill obviously. Hit is useless overall). This is Nephenee's biggest faultering on the customization end.

Additionally, Nephenee's overall solid stats allow her to be useful across multiple styles of play. Once again, her only real weakpoint is in her STR, and even that is not unworkable (while low, it's far from un-usable). Additionally, with a relatively non-existent cost (her stats are solid without the ward and Wrath is good on its own), the capability of being a viable defender-type, early jointime and such, she is a well-rounded unit who can fit well into various playstyles. However, her lack of weapon flexibility (not just axes, but being lance-locked) and mounted movement put a limitation on what she can and cannot do.

Nephenee's overall solidness makes her good for speedruns as well. Coming early in the game with solid stats, she becomes very usable right out of the box. Her high innate speed means she can double reliably, and though her STR is lacking, that can be fixed with a forge. Though she won't be as useful as, say, a flier, she will remain helpful and a unit who can help clear maps fast, especially if booted to help her keep up with mounted units.

Ratings: Speed: 3

Flex: 4

Cust: 3.5

Overall: 10/5

Edit: There has been concern voiced over Nephenee's early game and how she handles after just joining. Namely, that her STR is low to reliably 2HKO and her SPD is lacking. I have lowered her customization score by .5 due to the increased resources needed to make her viable.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Snowy_One

[Original Alear]

Snowy, you're not a joke to me.

customization deals with things like how potent a character can be and such

Explain what you mean by "how potent."

However, her lack of weapon flexibility (not just axes, but being lance-locked) and mounted movement put a limitation on what she can and cannot do.

Beyond limiting her potential to KO more effectively with axes, what limits does weapon flexibility really put on her? How often would we really have her use swords or bows if she got them on promotion, assuming (rather logically, I think) she started at a low rank? And I think you mean lack of mounted movement.

[Snowy_One]

Explain what you mean by "how potent."

Basically, how powerful and useful a character can become, not just statistically (hard stats at any given level), but through the application of skills and supports and the like. For example, Nephenee only has one solid support option (Calill) which hurt her score while Ike has many support options of which most are very good, which will likely end up helping his score when he gets ranked.

Beyond limiting her potential to KO more effectively with axes, what limits does weapon flexibility really put on her? How often would we really have her use swords or bows if she got them on promotion, assuming (rather logically, I think) she started at a low rank? And I think you mean lack of mounted movement.

Having access to more weapon types means better control over the weapon triangle and the capability to use that weapon in certain situations. While I will grant that being locked into lances isn't the worst thing ever, lacking triangle control is a downside.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

this seems like a fun idea to do actully...but i do only have one issue with the nephy post.

"she becomes very usable right out of the box"

i assume this is without being given any Items or BEXP...if thats the case then she's seems to have an pretty bad early game.

6-8 rounding physical units, not doubling most of them if any, killed in three hits at best and two hits at worse...

to me this doesn't seem very...usable right from her prison cell...which is also a box.(its a joke, i'm talking about how he does in chapters 11-13)

also this is on hardmode(A.K.A. the only mode that can give anyone trouble) right? an Normal mode tier list would look like this.

top tier

Everyone

other tier

noone

Edited November 19, 2011 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Snowy_One]

this seems like a fun idea to do actully...but i do only have one issue with the nephy post.

"she becomes very usable right out of the box"

i assume this is without being given any Items or BEXP...if thats the case then she's seems to have an pretty bad early game.

Ah. True. I usually give her a forged weapon off the bat and didn't think to let it be written in (been a while). I'm willing to drop her customize score by .5 if that helps.

also this is on hardmode(A.K.A. the only mode that can give anyone trouble) right? an Normal mode tier list would look like this.

top tier

Everyone

other tier

noone

Hard mode is implied, but not stated. Ergo, while it should be generally assumed I am referring to things on hard mode, it is not a requirement and I WILL be mentioning how the unit handles in other modes (like with the Laguz kings who I DO plan to rank... though not highly).

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Snowy dropping her score by .5 seems fair enough, as i admit she still can be a good unit, but her early game ofcourse, she needs help

[Snowy_One]

In a small twist, I have decided to not review the characters in a sequential or defined order. I have decided to link a awful character next.

Nasir: Nasir is awful. There is no two ways about it. Just recruiting him alone can be a challenge as it requires Ike to win his fight against the Black Knight. Failure to do so, either through RNG screwage or choosing to just flee for any reason (turncount or otherwise) will result in you not getting Nasir. To make it worse, he comes for only two chapters! To make it even WORSE on top of that, he's not even that powerful! Unbanded, he has a MT of 40 at base level, 35 if banded. Boyd can match this MT without even wielding a weapon and even a silver blade makes up almost half this MT after being adjusted for WTD (14 MT vs. 35 total). His movement speed is atrocious as well. 5 base movement, 6 while transformed, and his breath isn't even ranged. Only generals and magic-users have movement equally this low and both the generals and sages are capable of wielding 1-2 range weapons, can hit for equal/better amounts (depending on how you want to count it) and don't need to worry about untransforming or using the demiband to do so (not to mention the sages ability to use staves). To make it worse, HP aside, his growth rates are awful. Only two (SKL and DEF) are above 50% and with his already high level, he does not have much room to grow. So even if you level him up to -/20, his stats will only increase (on average) by 1 in each place (HP aside again). With no supports and a hideous join-time, Nasir is unlikely to get any skills aside from maybe Resolve (any other skills would likely have been taken up unless they were worthless) and even that is highly subjective (Ike can use Resolve to fight Ashnard). If the player is looking for a fast complete it gets even worse for Nasir as there is a good chance that the one thing he can do that is unique (hurt Ashnard) won't even happen as the player will just finish the chapter beforehand.

In terms of speed play he is bad. Late joining time, low movement, lack of any real utility, and may not even see action on the final chapter (half of his play time). He has poor flexibility (requiring the player to defeat the BK in 27 and being around for only two chapters even then). With no supports, cruddy item selection (he's only likely going to get the band. Even that is subjective and with it he's still awful), and just... no way to even make him feasibly good... he's easily one of the worst characters in the game. His one glimmer of hope is that his stats are... not terrible... if the player has a average party level around 20/10 or so. Even then, his low movement serves as a huge downside accented all the more by his lack of utility/1-2 range weapons and need for either the band or fear of untransforming. Oh. Yea. He only starts with a gauge of 5, meaning he needs 4 turns before shifting to top it off (making him almost completely useless for any person desiring speed).

Oh yea. He also has 'boon' which restores the condition of any adjacent unit at the start of the turn... yay... He can unberserk any sages at least!

Overall: 1/0/0

Late joining, no real chance for customization or other things, stats that are less than stunning, low movement, no supports... The only reason he's even getting a point is because, if you have a team that is badly underleveled (will likely only happen in hard mode), he *might* have a use for the two chapters he's in... assuming the player goes the long way in 28 and doesn't quick-kill Ashnard in the final.

[Dark Sage]

Berserk doesn't exist in FE9.

[Snowy_One]

Berserk doesn't exist in FE9.

I care about if berserk is actually in the game or not about as much as I care about how useful Boon is. Which is to say 'I don't care one bit'.

[MacLovin]

I look forward to reading the reviews of Jill, Marcia, and the core Greil Mercs.

[dondon151]

I care about if berserk is actually in the game or not about as much as I care about how useful Boon is. Which is to say 'I don't care one bit'.

I doubt that this would change anything since your credibility has long been irreparably damaged, but including blatantly incorrect information because you "don't give a fuck" in an article with a semblance of officiousness is not helping. You obviously care if you're writing it in the first place.

[Dark Sage]

I care about if berserk is actually in the game or not about as much as I care about how useful Boon is. Which is to say 'I don't care one bit'.

If you're not even going to bother correcting any misinformation because you don't care, why should I (or anyone else for that matter) give a shit about your ratings?

Oh and also:

For example, Nephenee only has one solid support option (Calill) which hurt her score while Ike has many support options of which most are very good, which will likely end up helping his score when he gets ranked.

Having played FE9 on HM, I have to say that most units don't particularly care about supports. They're nice I guess, but it should barely make a difference (if it makes a difference at all) in a unit's final ranking.

And finally while I'm at it:

! Unbanded, he has a MT of 40 at base level, 35 if banded. Boyd can match this MT without even wielding a weapon and even a silver blade makes up almost half this MT after being adjusted for WTD (14 MT vs. 35 total). His movement speed is atrocious as well.

1. It is impossible for a weaponless Boyd to match Banded Nasir's might

2. Boyd can't use Silver Blades.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Dark Sage

[Life]

Snowy, I hate to do this but you're asking for it with analyses of the characters. But I'm only going to attack one point which I feel describes why a lot of people tend to say "Snowy is being stupid".

Nephenee has great speed. At 20/10 she will have almost capped out, and with the Knight Ward, she can hit her speed cap a LOT sooner!

Ok. Nephenee has great Spd. Assuming that she holds the KW for all of her levels (I'm not even going to attack the absurdity of that point), Nephenee has an 85% Spd growth.

WOW.

In addition, Nephenee now caps her Spd at 18/0 before promotion, gains 2+ Spd at promotion and caps at 26 at about... 20/5.

THAT'S INCREDIBLE!

But... there's one question we all need to ask ourselves. I'll even put it in spoilers in case you want to guess for yourself.

Why doesn't everyone care?

The reason, of course, is because nobody gives a flying fuck about Nephenee's Spd past her first few chapters (ironically, the KW doesn't exist then). I know, shocking.

Nephenee has 11 AS holding an Iron Lance at base level. In chapter 11, of course. Never mind her Atk (which is pretty atrocious at a paltry 15), let's just look at what she doubles and if it's significant or not. Well, the Fighters have 0 AS so just about everyone and their mothers double them. All 3 Myrmidons decided it would be a good idea to weigh themselves down to 2-3 AS so that's a non-issue. Of course, those are the level 1s. The level 9 guys also weigh themselves down, this time with Steel weapons. 6 AS. Soldiers have 3 AS maximum, Knights barely beat that with 4 maximum; all we're really left with are the Cavs (which sport quite a lot of AS), Mages (there's only 2 of them in different locations of the map) and Thieves (a non-factor with their paltry 7 Atk maximum).

So here is a chapter where that 11 AS actually makes a difference. Nephenee can't double half of the Cavs on the map but this is base level. Everyone else is at least 5 or 6 levels ahead of her. Of course, this is assuming we haven't done anything logical... like shove a little bit of BExp down her throat.

Fast forward to Chapter 13. By now, a little BExp and some combat should have her at like... let's go with level 12. If we're going to use her full time, let's at least get her up to par. Nephenee's now got about 14 AS, -1 with a Javelin and we'll have her toting a forged Iron Lance. No AS loss there.

Now what does Nephenee double? Everything minus Ravens, non-weighed down Myrmidons and promoted units. The Ravens don't fight anyone, Myrmidons are always fast and Norris and the Halbs should rightfully be out of the way. But Nephenee doubles everything else. And this is a trend that will continue for the rest of the game.

Nephenee's Spd is good enough to double 80% of the enemies. Fine. We get that. But here's the problem.

If Nephenee doubles everything from this point out, why should we care about when she caps her Spd? She caps it at 20/10, earlier with the KW. So? It's not like she's having doubling problems in the first place.

And this is why you are treated as a joke. You see high numbers and you orgasm. I see high numbers and I ask about the significance of them.

[Snowy_One]

If you're not even going to bother correcting any misinformation because you don't care, why should I (or anyone else for that matter) give a shit about your ratings?

Oh and also:

Because it's BOON! There are only two enemies who can even inflict status ailments in the entire time Nasir is available, both in chapter 28, and odds are so largely against the possibility that Nasir will be beside whichever unit they target at the start of the turn that they manage to score a hit (assuming that they do) that it might as well be a berserk staff because it's never going to happen in the first place!

Having played FE9 on HM, I have to say that most units don't particularly care about supports. They're nice I guess, but it should barely make a difference (if it makes a difference at all) in a unit's final ranking.

That's nice sage.

1. It is impossible for a weaponless Boyd to match Banded Nasir's might

2. Boyd can't use Silver Blades.

1) Boyd can achieve a base STR of 30 and can get +5 MT from a A/B support with any of his water supports (Mist, Brom, and Ulki). What is 30 + 5? Heck, Boyd will also likely have a WTA since he uses axes, so why not just assume he's getting the WTA bonus as well and make it 36 (or... once again... 35 if you REALLY wanna complain about him getting a Brom/Ulki support and feel him more likely to get a Titania one instead).

2) I know that sage. You missed the point by several miles. You seem to specialize in doing that. Finding pointless flaws and harping on them to the point of absurdity while missing the blatant point.

Now, you are not beholden to this list in any way, shape or form. This is not an official tier list and is a personal one (says so right in the title for crying out loud). If you don't feel something is worth pointing out, there is no obligation for you to do so. I won't hold you here.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Snowy_One

[Life]

1) Boyd can achieve a base STR of 30 and can get +5 MT from a A/B support with any of his water supports (Mist, Brom, and Ulki). What is 30 + 5? Heck, Boyd will also likely have a WTA since he uses axes, so why not just assume he's getting the WTA bonus as well and make it 36 (or... once again... 35 if you REALLY wanna complain about him getting a Brom/Ulki support and feel him more likely to get a Titania one instead).

Oh dear.

Uh... Snowy, you do realize that Brom and Boyd have a 2 Move difference and Boyd loses that support by the time that he, you know, reaches anything to kill.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Kefka

[I.M. Gei]

Snowy, why did you post your tier list for the world to see if you can't even handle the critics?

[Life]

Snowy, why did you post your tier list for the world to see if you can't even handle the critics?

Because he's Smash's twin brother.

SURPRISE!

[Dark Sage]

Because it's BOON! There are only two enemies who can even inflict status ailments in the entire time Nasir is available, both in chapter 28, and odds are so largely against the possibility that Nasir will be beside whichever unit they target at the start of the turn that they manage to score a hit (assuming that they do) that it might as well be a berserk staff because it's never going to happen in the first place!

Maybe you should've just said "Boon is useless" instead of mentioning Berserk then rite?

That's nice sage.

Translation: Cool story bro.

In retrospect, I should've known you'd respond to such a post with a vacuous and tasteless statement.

1) Boyd can achieve a base STR of 30 and can get +5 MT from a A/B support with any of his water supports (Mist, Brom, and Ulki). What is 30 + 5? Heck, Boyd will also likely have a WTA since he uses axes, so why not just assume he's getting the WTA bonus as well and make it 36 (or... once again... 35 if you REALLY wanna complain about him getting a Brom/Ulki support and feel him more likely to get a Titania one instead).

2) I know that sage. You missed the point by several miles. You seem to specialize in doing that. Finding pointless flaws and harping on them to the point of absurdity while missing the blatant point.

Oh this is rich coming from you. I'm trying to help you save face here by correcting your blatantly incorrect statements. I actually know what you meant but you shouldn't go spewing around bullshit. You would probably be seen as less of a joke that way.

Now, you are not beholden to this list in any way, shape or form. This is not an official tier list and is a personal one (says so right in the title for crying out loud). If you don't feel something is worth pointing out, there is no obligation for you to do so. I won't hold you here.

I'm pointing things out because it's fun and I enjoy arguing with people who I know who are wrong. Not only that, I also enjoy arguing with people who make rating topics or the like when butthurt enters their motivations.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Dark Sage

[Snowy_One]

Oh dear.

Uh... Snowy, you do realize that Brom and Boyd have a 2 Move difference and Boyd loses that support by the time that he, you know, reaches anything to kill.

That is irrelevant to the point that was being made. Namely that, without even wielding a weapon, Boyd can match Nasir's banded MT.

Snowy, why did you post your tier list for the world to see if you can't even handle the critics?

There is a difference between being a critic and being stupid. You are being a critic when you can complain about things that have a degree of validity and relevance. You are being stupid when you ignore the point that was being made (that Nasir's Boon is effectively useless) to harp on something that is pointless (that berserk isn't in the game without hacking). You could replace berserk with Silence or Sleep and it would still mean just as much. Namely, that the odds of Nasir being next to a unit with a status ailment at the start of a turn are very low at best, making it an essentially worthless skill.

[I.M. Gei]

Um... Snowy... Hello? Boyd can't even attack when he's not wielding a weapon...

Edited November 20, 2011 by Black★Rock Shooter

[Life]

That is irrelevant to the point that was being made. Namely that, without even wielding a weapon, Boyd can match Nasir's banded MT.

This is wrong on two different occasions.

1) Brom and Boyd don't even have a 2 move difference and you didn't even catch that (my bad for mixing Boyd up with Tormod but shame on you for not realizing that).

2) Boyd without a weapon has 0 MT. Not 35. Nice try.

[Dark Sage]

You could replace berserk with Silence or Sleep and it would still mean just as much.

I dunno man. Personally, I prefer having my units be able to do stuff/use magic and staves over not being able to.

[Snowy_One]

1) Brom and Boyd don't even have a 2 move difference and you didn't even catch that (my bad for mixing Boyd up with Tormod but shame on you for not realizing that).

No. I saw it. It didn't matter though. Brom could have had 0 movement and Boyd 999999 movement and it wouldn't have mattered. The statement was about how much MT it was possible for a specific unit (Boyd in this case) to have without even wielding a weapon and that it matched the amount of damage Nasir could output with his breath while banded.

If it helps, imagine Boyd is wielding a special axe that has been hacked into the game that has 0 MT.

2) Boyd without a weapon has 0 MT. Not 35. Nice try.

You are right... Technically. STR, MT, and Damage are different things. Still if someone says 'The Steel sword has more damage on it than the iron sword' you know what he means even though 'Damage' is the term applied to the final result after all numbers have been crunched.

Edit:

I dunno man. Personally, I prefer having my units be able to do stuff/use magic and staves over not being able to.

Sage. There are only two units capable of inflicting status ailments. One of which is Silence which is useless when not targeting a magical unit. They have only three uses each. Even if every one of them hit (unlikely seeing as their hitrate is pretty low and affected by RES and distance), you have three units sleeping and three silenced over a period of three turns. This is ignoring you likely killing them before they can use all those uses. Even then, it only matters if Nasir is right beside them at the start of the turn meaning you need to end the turn with him right next to the unit for it to even work. Sure, it *might* restore a sleeping unit, but the odds of that happening are slim at best. The most that you can get out of this is me raising Nasir's flexability score by .5 as well.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Snowy_One

[Life]

It didn't matter though.

It DOES matter. The point is to nail people on mistakes. Like when I nailed you on the fact that Nephenee's high Spd capping out early means absolutely zilch. It's like KOT trying to prove that Nino is better than Pent because she doubles more endgame bosses (and I'm talking last chapter bosses). He forgot the fact that 1x2 hits is still only 2 damage. Same thing with you.