[FE7] Socialite Serra's Super-Sadistic SOYO of S-ness

[zahlman]

Listen up, folks. This is not your mother's draft.

It's Serra's. Which means a whole new level of annoyance. Fortunately, Serra is merciful (thank Elimine!) and there will be many opportunities to accumulate turn bonuses. Some of them are automatic if you don't completely derp, but OTOH you're going to be playing HHM, paying for Marcus' assistance, and dealing with some other unique constraints. I really have no idea how the turn counts are going to work out, but a lot of thought has been put into the rules (both to fit the theme and to make them playable... the exact numbers have been given a fair amount of consideration).

I'll hand the mic over to Serra now.

(EDITED WITH FIXES. I even fixed Serra's introduction because I care so much. In case I messed up the flavour-text somehow, the table summary is authoritative.)

Helllll-ooooo~~~~! [Ed.: Emphasis on "hell", IMO] All these would-be drafters are here to see ME? How wonderful! *nod* Let's get started then, shall we?

This draft is for five brave adventurers, who will escort me through Lyn Hard mode and Hector Hard mode. It is a SOYO draft which will be conducted in the usual way... 1 picks for 2, 2->3, 3->4, 4->5, 5->1, 5->4, 4->3, 3->2, 2->1, 1->5. There are a total of 30 draftable units once everything else is sorted out, so we'll be doing that back-and-forth thingy three times. What? No, that totally was not innuendo! I'm innocent I tell you

We're using zahlman's usual procedure for what undrafted units can and can't do. Units on the field have no restrictions once they get there, whether it's because they're forced, recruited in that chapter, common, or a fielded draft. Undrafted units can't be fielded at all, unless otherwise noted.

Everyone gets to use me, of course. [Ed.: She just can't avoid innuendo...] Also Merlinus and Athos, because that only makes sense. We'll toss in Hector and Lyn, as well, because they're the lords (even though I know I'm the REAL star of this story). Besides, they're awesome! Lyn is such a strong woman and Hector is just dreamy. Hmm, who else... well, I couldn't leave out my beloved Erky-poo, of course, and we'll need that charming rogue Matthew, too. Hmm? 'rogue' is an FE8 promoted class? Oh, never mind. Anyway, he's in, too. You're going to neeeeed a thief for this one. Trust me~~~

How about Marcus? Hmm... well... I didn't really want to give any breaks, but I'll cut you guys a deal. You can field Marcus for the special low price of 3 turns per chapter where he's used. This is the only time I'll let you field an undrafted unit! And only because you're really going to need the help~~~ [Ed. I tried Ch 14 with everyone but Marcus, under the given conditions, and it's slow and hellish to recruit Erk and save the south village.] But I still want to reward people who can do without, you know? Tee-hee!

Hrm, what else do we need to deal with... some of these guys have special recruitment requirements, so let's take care of that. We'll take out Bartre, Priscilla and Nils from the draft list, and add them automatically to the teams that need them. So if you got Karla you also get Bartre; if you got Ninian then you also get Nils (okay, that's not a requirement, but they're really the same unit anyway - SHHHH! ); if you got Lucius or Raven (or both), you also get Priscilla. Not that she'll do you any good~~~ [Ed. The team with Lucius does not need or get Raven, because he's usable in that chapter anyway once Priscilla recruits him. Similarly, Nino and Jaffar are separate.] We'll get rid of Geitz and Wallace because they always cause problems, and hrm... one more... okay, Fiora. Those three may not be recruited! Hmph! [Ed. The reason for excluding Fiora is that we'd have to give Florina to that team in order for her to be recruitable, and that would be an unfair bonus. Or else that team would automatically eat a non-recruitment penalty and lose a draft slot, which is also horribly unfair.]

Okay... that leaves 30, exactly! I'm glad I was paying attention in numbers class, unlike Hector On to the special requirements

First off, since I'm the star of the show, you have to field me in every chapter I'm available and you can't let me die, even in Final. Also, I will claim the last point in Chapter 6, and at least one point in Chapter 25. [Ed. If you've never had her claim the last point in Chapter 6 before... I hope you enjoy the quote.] Oh, and there's this little matter of Afa's Drops... you'll be giving those to me, right? Riii-ight~~~? I mean, who else would you rather see on your combat results screen than adorable, perfect MOI?

Healing people, and using non-combat magic, is my job, as your representative of St. Elimine. Therefore, only I will use staves. Sorry, Prissy. You can still meatshield and stuff after you're done with your recruitment. OH WAIT tee-hee And yes, of course I can use Warp and Rescue, why wouldn't I be able to? Healing items will also have to be severely restricted, of course. I'm not going to allow you to purchase any, so you'll have to make do with what you can, er, beg, borrow or steal. I understand, I can't be everywhere at once, so you'll need them sometimes. With careful planning that should be enough. IT BETTER BE Ahem.

I also want to see you guys make only the most effective uses of rescuing, so I'm assessing a 1-turn penalty for each use of the following commands: Rescue, Take, Drop, Give. Unless of course, I'm the one being moved around. After all, I'm the star of the show, why shouldn't I be able to travel in comfort and luxury? (Even if it is with that creep Sain...)

Finally, I can't let you guys slack off, so it will cost 15 turns for failure to recruit each member of your team. That includes Erk! Don't you dare leave my Erky-poo alone by himself with all those dangerous Knights and Cavaliers D:

Okay, okay, that's enough mean talk. Time to offer some rewards!

Remember that bit about Matthew earlier? I'm looking for gems. Pretty, shiny gems for my jewellery collection. Oh, and those rings Ninian uses are pretty, too. Let me have those, please. I'll pay you 20 turns for a White Gem, 5 turns for a Blue Gem and 2 turns for a Red Gem. For the rings, I'll give you 1 turn per remaining use, so up to 15 per ring. Obviously, those gems don't count if you sell them.

You can have 5 turns per use of Elixir as well (so 15 for a full one), because collecting those and not using them shows me that you're really dedicated to the cause. Thank you~~~ It also gives Matthew a little more to do. Silly boy [Ed. I'm pretty sure Matthew is actually older than Serra.]

I should also get lots of support from my, er, "special" friends. I'll give you 10 turns per support conversation with me, no matter who it's with. NO THAT DOES NOT MAKE ME A WHORE IT MAKES ME A SOCIALITE!

Hmm, what am I forgetting~~~ Oh, right, there are some formalities about turn counting and so forth...

We're going to count turns for chapters as the game counts them. So if you get rid of that pesky Eubans on the last turn, that'll actually be worth something Also, every gaiden is optional. Even 31x! Instead of a turn allowance for each one, I'm going to give a 5 turn credit for each completed gaiden (so 31x basically costs you a turn).

Did you get all that? Heavens, I do tend to ramble, don't I? Sorry about that. Fortunately, zahlman was taking notes while I was speaking, and prepared a summary.

Drafting:

1. This is a SOYO draft for 5 people. The game will be played as LHM + HHM.

2. Hector, Lyn, Serra, Erk, Matthew, Athos and Merlinus are common.

3. Fiora, Geitz and Wallace are banned and may not be recruited.

4. Marcus is not available for drafting; he may be fielded for a special 3 turn cost.

5. Priscilla is added to the teams with Raven and Lucius; Bartre is added to the team with Karla; Nils is added to the team with Ninian.

Thus, available characters for drafting, in alphabetical order, are:

Canas	Dart	Dorcas	Eliwood	Farina
Florina	Guy	Harken	Hawkeye	Heath
Isadora	Jaffar	Karel	Karla	Kent
Legault	Lucius	Louise	Lowen	Ninian
Nino	Oswin	Pent	Rath	Raven
Rebecca	Renault	Sain	Vaida	Wil

Procedure:

1. Chapters are counted as the game counts them. Ch 4 is 8 turns, etc.

2. Undrafted units other than Marcus may not be fielded. Once on the map, a unit may do anything (subject to the common restrictions), no matter whether the unit was forced, common, fielded as a drafted unit, or recruited during the chapter.

3. You pick your path through the game and every gaiden is optional. There is no turn allowance, but instead a turn credit.

4. Only Serra may use any staff, or any Vulnerary, Elixir, Pure Water or Antitoxin (the items with staff-like effects). This means Priscilla is effectively useless beyond recruiting Raven.

5. Serra must claim the last point in Ch 6, and at least one point in Ch 25. She must be fielded at every opportunity, and not die, even in Final.

6. Vulneraries, Elixirs, Pure Waters and Antitoxins (the items with staff-like effects) may not be purchased.

(I guess technically I should have excluded door keys, but really who cares)

Summary of bonuses and penalties: (negative numbers are bonuses... signed arithmetic for the win)

-20 White Gem
-** Dancer ring: 1 per remaining use, so up to 15 each
-** Elixir: 5 per remaining use, so up to 15 each
-10 Support with Serra (each conversation, regardless of level or character)
 -5 Blue Gem
 -5 Completed Gaiden
 -2 Red Gem
  1 Rescue/Drop/Take/Give (Except Serra). You're responsible for counting these up as you go.
  3 Marcus fielded
 15 Failure to recruit (includes Erk!)
GTFO Other undrafted unit fielded
GTFO Purchase of Vulnerary, Elixir, Pure Water or Antitoxin
GTFO Unit other than Serra uses a staff
GTFO Serra doesn't claim a point in Ch 25, or the last point in Ch 6
GTFO Serra is not fielded in a chapter, or dies in Final. 'Ooh! Why me? This is SO annoying!'
GTFO Afa's Drops not given to Serra

Of course, you can just restart if you mess up; I won't care if you mention you had to restart several times to keep Serra alive or whatever.

To qualify, gems and dancer rings must be in your possession at the end of the game (either in Supply or in some character's inventory).

Some notes:

13x costs you 3 turns. Whether that's worthwhile for early gold in HHM is up to you, but I doubt it personally.

Jerme's map has a White gem; Kenneth's map has a Blue Gem. But Jerme's map obviously takes a fair bit longer, depending on your team, and is annoying. Choose wisely.

You might not be able to avoid taking the hit for Marcus in 28. Oh well. You have the option.

28x has a dancer ring and a Blue Gem, so you can get up to 25 turns of credit for that gaiden.

Warpskipping 32x might allow a net gain in turns.

23 has a White Gem (Jasmine) and a dancer ring (sand); you really don't want to miss those. Of course, this being the HHM desert... good luck

Lyn can get a White Gem if you are frugal in LHM. You may have to make tough choices.

Florina obviously still saves a bunch of turns in LHM, but not as many as normal.

Healing items have moved to a prohibition on purchase plus a turn bonus for Elixirs, so try to conserve them, but don't worry about the few maps where you don't have Serra (not that they're really a problem...)

I hope everyone noticed that last one I snuck in!

Participants, now in actual drafting order:

General Horace: Karel, Jaffar, Oswin, Eliwood, Ninian, Kent(, Nils)

Whitefang: Renault, Farina, Legault, Vaida, Harken, Raven(, Priscilla)

Naglfar: Louise, Wil, Dart, Guy, Heath, Sain

Zahlman: Nino, Rebecca, Rath, Dorcas, Isadora, Lowen

Silver Harpoon: Karla, Canas, Lucius, Hawkeye, Pent, Florina(, Priscilla, Bartre)

Edited April 3, 2012 by zahlman

[Elieson]

Mind = blown

[MacLovin]

WTF

I'm in.

(Mind=Raped and BloWN)

Edited December 6, 2011 by Silver Harpoon

[13th]

This... is... madness.

Not in due to HHM.

EDIT: Also...

Why ban people from using vulneraries. That makes it more of madness.

Staves I can see, Elixers I can see, but VULNERARIES? THEY'RE WEAKER THAN STAVES!

Edited December 6, 2011 by 13thshadow

[zahlman]

Well, Serra has 2 MAG and E staves to start, and I figure she's kinda irked (pun intended) that a common preparation available at almost every Shop is 5/6 as effective as she is. Really, though, I did want to make something where it will be challenging just to get through. There are a lot of rewards (literally hundreds of turns available to each team) for a reason. It's also very much the sort of challenge I used to try for myself a while back. I can confirm that LHM can be done pretty effectively without Vulneraries or Serra, BTW.

Story time: the first time I ever played through HHM, I was completely broad-sided by Cog of Destiny. Didn't have any Pure Water and I hadn't really sought to obtain Barrier or Restore, either. I also didn't know anything about how the reinforcements work for the chapter, and I had been taking things one chapter at a time without really thinking about building an effective team. I was also still in the "lol use your growth units so they can be pwnsome at the end and bench Marcus" stage (it used to be hard to avoid that kind of advice, or get advice to the contrary). I eventually figured out a way through, though. So I'm pretty confident that this sort of thing can be done.

I can change it to a turn penalty for Vulnerary specifically if everyone agrees, though. Say 2 turns per use?

P.S. I think the idea of skilled players struggling to avoid turn penalties on defend chapters is hilarious. I did say this would be sadistic. And yes, I will be torturing myself with this draft. It's only fair.

Edited December 6, 2011 by zahlman

[Refa]

Two turns/vulnerary use? In a mode where your characters take about as much damage from a single attack? I'd say one turn per vulnerary.

[zahlman]

Thought about it some more. How about this:

- Only Serra uses staffs

- Anyone can use Vulnerary, Pure Water and Antitoxin, but they may not be purchased; you have to rely on what you can steal and the ones that come with characters.

- Either: No Elixir, period. (It's not like Serra will generally need them with her typical HP totals) OR: a significant turn bonus for each Elixir use available at the end (so you have incentive to steal them or find them in chests); you can still use them but still can't buy them.

[13th]

^That SHOULD work. I like the elixer rule, though.

I still think VULERARIES should be free to buy. They're not that crazy to use. Besides. With free Serra Lord, you won't NEED to use them much.

[General Horace]

Call me insane, but I am in.

[zahlman]

^That SHOULD work. I like the elixer rule, though.

I still think VULERARIES should be free to buy. They're not that crazy to use. Besides. With free Serra Lord, you won't NEED to use them much.

The point is to force people to eliminate or at least minimize their use. Leave units at low HP and keep them out of combat until they can be healed, where possible. Take some chances. Put that "ohshitohshithowdoImakethiswork" feeling back into FE, the kind you got on your first FE6 HM run.

Besides, theming.

I'd really prefer to alter this as little as possible - and keep the discussion to people who have joined. Unless you're indicating that your desire to join is contingent on this. Which it isn't, because you already said you don't want to draft HHM (unless I greatly misunderstood).

Horace: All of us already knew you were insane. I'm insane, too, just not quite as good at being insane. :D

[Baldrick]

I have an addiction for wooing pretty girls and my partner is a stern red-haired knight, so I guess I'm sane.

I'm tempted, but I've already joined so many drafts, I don't think I should be taking on any more until I finish a few. I will, however, be watching this thread with great interest.

[General Horace]

So, if I'm reading this right, all units are free from chapter 11-14, right, since they are forced?

Also, you are taking part too, right Zahl?

[zahlman]

So, if I'm reading this right, all units are free from chapter 11-14, right, since they are forced?

Also, you are taking part too, right Zahl?

Yes (11 through 13x inclusive; there's a loadout screen for 14. Also 1-6 inclusive, so Lyn mode performance/availability is highly discounted when evaluating units) and yes.

Clarification, since it only occurred to me now: Everyone can use Wallace in Ch 9 since he's forced ("banned" doesn't override that, it just means he can't be recruited in HHM). Everyone can not use Wallace in Ch 10. The idea (at least partially) is that "omg I have to avoid meatshielding" is not supposed to be part of the challenge. Of course, I rather doubt that Wallace saves turns in Ch 9 all by himself, especially with a cost for rescue/drop, so... :)

Thoughts on the Vulnerary issue?

Baldrick: That joke was bad and you should feel bad. I know I feel bad for actually laughing. XD

Edited December 6, 2011 by zahlman

[Baldrick]

Payback for Cecilia's sandy start. :)

[General Horace]

Maybe make vulneraries free where Serra doesn't exist, (Prologue - Chapter 4, Chapter 11) Chapter 11 especially is luck based on how many vulnerary charges you end up using.

[Whitefang]

Blessed Saint Serra, give me the strength to win this with ease.

I am in.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Whitefang

[zahlman]

Maybe make vulneraries free where Serra doesn't exist, (Prologue - Chapter 4, Chapter 11) Chapter 11 especially is luck based on how many vulnerary charges you end up using.

This is automatic if we go with the conservation idea instead of the turn-penalty idea. So I'm starting to like that more. Yeah, Ch 11 is pretty stupid in a couple of ways, honestly. Even with a trained Matthew.

[Naglfar]

holy shit

count me in

[MacLovin]

Wait- how 'bout Lute doing an fe8 one.

It'd be funny!!

[zahlman]

Well, that filled up quickly enough.

Proposed revised structure:

-20 White Gem
-** Dancer ring: 1 per remaining use, so up to 15 each
-** Elixir: 5 per remaining use, so up to 15 each
-10 Support with Serra (each conversation, regardless of level or character)
 -5 Blue Gem
 -5 Completed Gaiden
 -2 Red Gem
  1 Rescue/Drop/Take/Give (Except Serra). You're responsible for counting these up as you go.
  3 Marcus fielded
 15 Failure to recruit (includes Erk!)
GTFO Other undrafted unit fielded
GTFO Purchase of Vulnerary, Elixir, Pure Water or Antitoxin
GTFO Unit other than Serra uses a staff
GTFO Serra doesn't claim a point in Ch 25, or the last point in Ch 6
GTFO Serra is not fielded in a chapter, or dies in Final. 'Ooh! Why me? This is SO annoying!'
GTFO Afa's Drops not given to Serra

Are there any other Elixirs besides the Ch 30 chest and the ones that certain characters come with?

@Silver Harpoon I already have a completely different idea for a themed FE8 draft. But you go ahead and make Lute the star of FE8 if you want.

Edited December 7, 2011 by zahlman

[General Horace]

I'm pretty sure it's only in NM, but the Dragon's gate sub-boss has one, I don't think it's droppable in HHM. I think he drops a halberd instead. There are stealable Elixirs too.

Also, is that the order in the OP?

EDIT: Also, wouldn't just mass buying Elixirs in Chapter 31x give you a negative turncount?

Edited December 7, 2011 by General Horace

[riariadne]

Ban buying Elixirs, probably?

[zahlman]

Also, is that the order in the OP?

No, that's just the order that people signed up. I'm not picking an order until we're settled with rules and stuff. I might wait a couple days anyway because I'm a little busy with non-game-playing-related stuff.

EDIT: Also, wouldn't just mass buying Elixirs in Chapter 31x give you a negative turncount?

They're already banned from purchase under that proposal. I do try to think these things through :)

Also I believe you are correct about Cameron, but it doesn't make much difference either way since if he does have a droppable Elixir then obviously everyone will get it.

Stealable ones... well, hopefully they don't imbalance the chapter-selection decisions... I couldn't find any in the WOD list though. Also they wouldn't give anything that nice to reinforcements, so nobody's going to be rewarded for hanging around. Although it might take a bit of effort to get some of them. (For the one in the chest in Ch30, you're forced to use exactly Hector and Serra, so you'll need a Chest Key... but I think there are droppable ones in-chapter?)

[Whitefang]

(For the one in the chest in Ch30, you're forced to use exactly Hector and Serra, so you'll need a Chest Key... but I think there are droppable ones in-chapter?)

You're probably better off killing the thieves after they loot the chest (the thieves prioritize stealing from characters first, then going for the chests.) The worst part about that chapter is that there's no Merlinus.

[zahlman]

If there are no objections, I will revise the rules as per the proposal and begin the drafting later today.