Snike Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 X3 Bandwagon combo? seriously, can someone enlighten me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 05:21 clipseykitty Yo. Democracy at work. 05:29 Kay Huh? 05:30 clipseykitty There's a bunch of people who aren't quite sure who to lynhc. 05:30 clipseykitty Er, lynch. 05:30 Kay Right. 05:30 Kay How does lynching Excellen help? 05:31 clipseykitty Because it's not someone that claimed tracker. 05:32 Kay I see 05:33 clipseykitty You have any ideas? 05:33 clipseykitty I'd rather not lynch Snike/Bal, since I haven't talked to thiem yet. 05:33 Kay Excellen is one of the people I specifically want alive 05:33 clipseykitty Any reason? 05:33 Kay Nothing solid 05:33 Kay He's just the most pro-town of anyone I talked to. 05:33 clipseykitty So why him? 05:33 clipseykitty I see? 05:34 Kay If there was more time, I'd try to do something about Rein 05:35 Kay Has he done anything at all? 05:35 clipseykitty Haven't talked to him much, and from what I gathered from Proto, you two didn't talk much. 05:35 Kay Right 05:36 clipseykitty So I guess you couldn't form a good opinion of him? 05:36 Kay Right. 05:36 clipseykitty Ugh. Rein's, like, never on when I am. 05:38 Kay Same here 05:38 clipseykitty I don't get it, you two are in the same time zone, more or less. 05:39 Kay lol, that's the problem 05:40 Kay most people aren't online from midnight to 8 AM 05:40 clipseykitty Your schedule shifted, I guess? 05:40 Kay Huh? 05:41 clipseykitty I think it's like nearly 6 AM for you? 05:41 Kay Yep 05:44 Kay That's just because it's Friday 05:44 clipseykitty I see. 05:44 Kay Back to who to lynch 05:44 clipseykitty Anyway, the vote is currently tied. 05:44 clipseykitty And I've got work tomorrow. 05:44 Kay I'm kinda suspicious of you ATM 05:44 Kay Strawman isn't the sort of person to stick his neck out with a theory like that for no reason 05:45 clipseykitty That's because I have no reason to trust him or you. 05:45 Kay Apparently you know something about most of the town's power roles, while accusing Blitz of rolefishing 05:45 clipseykitty I acquired this knowledge over time. 05:45 clipseykitty I'm trying to get the town together. 05:46 Kay I haven't really seen you doing that. 05:46 clipseykitty Again, that's because I see no reason to trust you. 05:47 Kay Anybody can say that. 05:47 clipseykitty I've already claimed to a couple of people. 05:48 Kay Any of them who can tell me you're likely to be town? 05:49 clipseykitty I've told them not to say a damn thing about me. 05:49 Kay Alright then 05:49 clipseykitty But until I can see something that'll prove beyond a doubt that you're town, I can't go around sharing everything I know. 05:49 Kay Of course. 05:49 clipseykitty Can you prove that? 05:50 Kay No, I can't, 05:50 clipseykitty I see. Hmmm, that reminds me. . .if Raymond does give the phase extension, it might make life easier for me. Thanks for reminding me to do that. 05:51 Kay That's something. 05:52 Kay Doesn't sound like you have much of a reason for voting for Excellen 05:52 Kay Why him instead of some other non-tracker? 05:52 clipseykitty Because I trust Core more than Excellen. 05:53 Kay Any particular reason why they're the only options? 05:53 clipseykitty Because the other people with votes are Kaoz and me, and neither of us think it's a good idea to have our respective selves lynched. 05:53 clipseykitty Of everyone else, I want to talk to Snike/Bal/13th's sub first before making a decision. 05:54 Kay I don't like lynching inactives, but if it comes down to not having any proper leads and just minimizing risk, it's better than lynching people who are contributing something. 05:54 clipseykitty I hate it, too, but you know the numbers, not me. 05:54 clipseykitty So you'd know whether the town can afford another mislynch. 05:56 Kay You do suspect Excellen, then 05:56 Kay right? 05:56 clipseykitty Of the lynch targets, he's the one I'm most uncomfortable about. 05:56 clipseykitty The other one is Obviam, but hell if I have any info on him. 06:08 Kay Can you at least tell me anything about who you claimed to? 06:08 Kay Right now, I have no reason to believe you 06:08 clipseykitty Yeah. I trust them with everything, including my logs. 06:08 Kay Alright 06:09 clipseykitty So kindly don't lynch me, as I'd like to talk to Snike/Bal/13th's sub to get a better idea of WTF is going on. 06:09 clipseykitty And maybe you can catch Rein. 06:10 Kay Why is that a reason to not lynch you? 06:10 clipseykitty Because it won't look good for you, especially since you can't prove yourself via role. 06:11 clipseykitty And playing overly paranoid at this point is gonna end the town for good. 06:11 Kay That's a threat, not a reason you shouldn't be lynched. 06:12 clipseykitty Because it's gonna be a mislynch, and if it's because you're playing paranoid townie, you're gonna shoot the town in the foot badly. 06:12 clipseykitty We're already short at least one. You knw how many town there is in this game. 06:12 Kay I don't see any reason to think it would be a mislynch. 06:13 clipseykitty What did I say about not playing overly paranoid? 06:13 clipseykitty Because that is what you're doing. 06:13 Kay Thinking you're scum makes me overly paranoid? 06:14 clipseykitty Yes. I've already said I've claimed to a couple of people, and I will be posting this convo in the shared thread. 06:14 clipseykitty What do you think their opinion of you will be, especially if you're town? 06:14 Kay "Especially if I'm town"? What does that have to do with anything? 06:15 Kay People can't avoid making decisions based on fear of being considered stupid 06:15 clipseykitty It means another wasted day to lynch you for pushing hard on someone who's already claimed. 06:15 Kay Theoretically. 06:15 Kay I have no reason to believe that you claimed. 06:16 clipseykitty You can believe NOW, or you can believe when you see that I've flipped town. If Haze was town (which is likely), you're gonna be up next for pushing my lynch. I don't think I need to tell yuo that -4 to 5 town is a very bad position for the town. 06:17 Kay You could say that just as easily as mafia. 06:17 clipseykitty And maybe you can start playing less paranoid, because I will be royally pissed if you're town. 06:17 clipseykitty If you're mafia, then lynching you would be a very good thing. 06:18 Kay Eclipse, what do you want from me? 06:18 Kay You want me to just blindly trust that you're town? 06:19 clipseykitty Don't try to push a lynch on me while I'm sleeping, and preferably don't do it before I can get reads on the last 20% of the town. 06:19 Kay You're not sleeping now 06:19 clipseykitty It's nearly 1:30 AM for me, and I have work tomorrow. 06:19 Kay That's why I'm pressuring you now 06:19 Kay I'm sorry about that. 06:20 clipseykitty So this is NOT the time or place for such antics. 06:20 Kay If you leave, I'll try to avoid getting you lynched while you aren't here 06:20 clipseykitty I will when I can get the rest of this logged. 06:20 Kay Okay. 06:20 clipseykitty And that's that. 06:21 clipseykitty Good night. See you tomorrow, I hope. 06:21 Kay 'Night That one. Basically: "If you keep pressuring me, I will get me and my buddies to have you lynched." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 ##Vote Eclipse Whats with that attitude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 no one calling out in her defense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snike Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 IDK guys, I'm not feeling the lynch atm. ##Vote: Kay [spoiler=Logs]Snike: Strider turntechGodhead: hi Snike: What's going on with Touhou turntechGodhead: in general or specifically Snike: specifically with the clips vote turntechGodhead: see that conversation kevin posted? Snike: yes, I did turntechGodhead: kay showed it to me, I showed it to him turntechGodhead: he posted itSnike: and you voted first turntechGodhead: yes turntechGodhead: because I found that ridiculous Snike: when did Kay show this message turntechGodhead: PM @3:45Snike: which you forwarded to Kirsche? turntechGodhead: he asked about my vote and she said she didn't care if I shared it with him turntechGodhead: and then I gave it to kirsche Snike: ok Snike: strider, were you talking to Kay until the lynch votes went up, or did you break off before then? turntechGodhead: before Snike: ok Snike: like, 20-30 minutes beforehand? turntechGodhead: yes Snike: I'll explain what I'm getting at in a moment turntechGodhead: ok Point being, it looks like Kay showed the logs to Strider, which in turn provoked his response. Now, the first thing that sort of irks me is that this wasn't aired out publicly. The lack of transparency jeopardizes the claim's strength, especially since it's a p.incriminating log. The other issue I see really is the fact that Kay waited until Strider had voted to vote, and Kevin immediately jumped on it. My issue there is that it looks like a bandwagon was formed with the intent to make Mr Strider look bad. I'm voting Kay over Kevin atm because of the fact that she coordinated to some extent this bandwagon by disclosing the log, and the fact that the day 1 Stealth Unvote irked me as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Maybe she wanted to get a second opinion on it before making a big deal int he thread? Or before jumping to conclusions? Or to see if maybe she was just taking it the wrong way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 No, I just started talking to people with the intention of voting for Clipsey once I checked whether she had been online in that time, and I ended up not voting first. It really wasn't any kind of elaborate plan. I was considering posting the log, I just wasn't sure if it was a good idea at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ##Unvote Hello! If my predecessor has conversed with multiple people then I've only seen... one of his conversations so far, and it's short, so I'm kind of lost in some ways. (Fakeedit: I got added to another conversation while finishing this post but I haven't actually read it indepth yet, will do so when back) Results of thread readan (none of these opinions are based on outside contact so far, which might affect things a little): This D1 vote on Kevin of Obviam's confuses me. I don't think attacking people solely for being on V/LA is reasonable since lying about V/LA is poor integrity and should be mod-punishable IMO. Is Lying About V/LA As Strategy a viable thing to do in OC and not considered a dick move or something? Also about Obviam, it unnerves me that he's been buddying up to my playerslot so much based on what I assume is thread content alone. If Obviam and 13th have talked before this game, I have not yet received or read the conversation, so I'm having trouble seeing where all this "13th is smarter than everyone/13th is probably town/etc" has been coming from. I don't like any of the arguments revolving around "___ knew stuff about Slayer's role, so they're probably the hooker". Scum can roleblock random people who they think might be PRs, as well as learn role information through ways other than questioning players (rolecop being an example), so the argument seems weak to me. I particularly don't agree with Strawman's vote on eclipse, since most important roles that would warrant a roleblock (doc, cop, watcher) typically don't inform the target of what happened. Iris worries me because it looks like she's just been going with the flow today, voting Strawman for being "weird" instead of scummy when votes were piling up on him, then unvoting him when it looked like the wagon was going to die but not providing any alternatives at the same time, which looks rushed. I think it's believable that scum would have gotten cold feet on Strawman's wagon after seeing people bought the tracker claim (which I believe btw), since their other option would have been to push him as Scum Tracker and look stupid after his lynch flips. Kay stating that "Strawman isn't the sort of person to stick his neck out with a theory like that for no reason" and using it to attack eclipse looks like a faulty way of using another player to lend credence to a case. Given Strawman's roleclaim, it's pretty apparent that if he's town, he doesn't know more than he's letting on, so that bit of meta looks odd to me in how it was used and it makes me think Kay's reasons for pressing eclipse were faked. Dislike eclipse wagon. How is openly saying "Your paranoid pressure of me is suspicious and I want to lynch you for it" scummy instead of just reactive? I don't see a benifit in either side saying it, scum especially, since they'd be better off not communicating about it to avoid associative tells. It actually seems to me that Kay is doing exactly what she's attacking eclipse for threatening to do to her, in that she apparently organized a voting block against eclipse behind the scenes because eclipse pressured her. I'm not fond of this double standard, since if Kay really found the logs that scummy then IMO the more townie thing to do would have been to just post them in-thread openly for everybody to judge, instead of utilizing word-of-mouth like she considered eclipse scummy for claiming to do. Given that I also think Kay's justification of her eclipse pressure looked contrived in the first place, I'm feeling pretty good about a ##Vote: Kay at the moment. tl;dr: Reading Kay as scum, wary of Iris and Obviam for various reasons, and Strawman and Slayer are probably both town. I also have slight town reads on both Excellen and eclipse based on how they've been posting but it's more of a gut thing and not really too solid. Nobody else jumps out in my mind yet. m kind of lost in some ways. (Fakeedit: I got added to another conversation while finishing this post but I haven Results of thread readan (none of these opinions are based on outside contact so far, which might affect thin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ...my post got mangled somehow. :< As the bottom of the post was meant to say, I'll be AFK for a little while after posting this, but after that I should be able to talk on IRC and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Dislike eclipse wagon. How is openly saying "Your paranoid pressure of me is suspicious and I want to lynch you for it" scummy instead of just reactive? More like, lynch me and my friends will lynch you as kevin previously stated. It was more of a threat rather than saying, oh you want to lynch me then i want to lynch you as well. Atleast thats what i took that convo as. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iris Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 The Eclipse bandwagon has some valid points, but frankly, I disagree with lynching her - I interpreted the log differently from Kirsche / Slayer - while it was strange, I didn't read it as "lynch me, my friends will lynch you" kind of thing. I actually find Eclipse kind of townish. I just trust Kay less than I trust Eclipse, so: ##Vote: Kay VOTALS (?) [5] Eclipse: Strawman, Rein, Kay, Kirsche, Slayer [3] Kay: Snike, Prims, Iris [0] Excellen: kirsche, Rein, eclipse, Kaoz [0] Strawman: Prims, Excellen, Core, eclipse, Iris [0] Rein: Kay [0] Core: Slayer [0] Kaoz: Excellen I honestly doubt I'll be up at 7 am on a Saturday, so. ;/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Yes, everyone, I am always coherent at 1 AM, especially after a huge scramble to make sure Strawman wasn't lynched. AND THEN, I get a wagon after Kay said she'd avoid lynching me. . .oh hey, this formed while I was gone. Yelling at Kay ATM. Results later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 net is terrible today, I have been trying to get on IRC for the past 5 minutes and it took me that 5 minutes to sign in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Remember that post Raymond said about clearing something up in my role? The gist of it was that all inspection results are 100% accurate, SO. . .no godfathers. That is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 my god that is a lot of stuff that's good for everyone who has time to read the thread but what about me? anygay i found some things that irked me so i'll go over them quickly excellen said some things "Erratic voting =/= mafia. It's not like eclipse and some other people didn't shift their vote a lot, or that he stands out in this regard. Pressure voting is a fair technique in mafia. You're "basing" your argument on complete and utter bullshit." why eclipse, what is this. I saw you stand up for eclipse sort of a bit ago too. >_O face. "Okay so I forgot I left out that I hadn't actually talked to him, and didn't quite use the proper wording for what I had intended to express. BFD" yes it is ogay, Kaoz dun said "Hoping that someone sees this and ties the vote at least." huh? why would anyone want to do that. "I don't think attacking people solely for being on V/LA is reasonable since lying about V/LA is poor integrity and should be mod-punishable IMO. Is Lying About V/LA As Strategy a viable thing to do in OC and not considered a dick move or something?" that is not why I voted him, it is why I was mad at him. You're right that it's a dick move. I was legitimately suspicious of him and then he tried to run away. Not very intuitive. "I'm having trouble seeing where all this "13th is smarter than everyone/13th is probably town/etc" has been coming from." It had been coming from him being the only person making lengthy informative posts at the time. That role is no longer his apparently and I am not even sure his posts are around anymore. Maybe I wasn't gaying attention and he was one of the sub-outs... will post more if I notice anything I guess but really I'd prefer if everyone just PM'd me. I read things easier when it's split into pieces my tiny brain can understand. my tiny, tiny, fried little brain so sleepy. ***Hextator curls up on eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleph Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 this feels pointless, but I forgot to vote and I am not feeling the eclipse vote, so ##Vote: Kay I am not really feeling the kay vote either but what can I do? actually, fuck that, I'm voting for someone I'm suspicious of and that's just how it's gonna be. Fuck your shitty bandwagons. ##Vote: Excellen I need to figure out who's who after all this subbing bullshit. aaaand headache: [on] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliriyum Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 HURRY SHE'S GONE, EVERYONE BW. ##Vote: Eclipse That was one stupid convo eclipse. ##Vote: Kirsche This vote bothers me. You flipped so quickly and easily, it's just strange. Could you post the log that I assume you have discussing the vote for Eclipse? Also, I find it odd that none of the first three eclipse votes included the log that the suspicion was based on. (I don't really want to lynch either Kay, or Eclipse, so I'm just throwing this out there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ##Unvote:Eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Ah, fuck it. Brain's not working. NO ONE ELSE VOTE FOR ME OR KAY! ##Vote: Kay By my count, this should tie the lynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ##Vote: Kevin because ceasefire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Oh, right. Let's see how many different knots we can tie. ##Unvote ##Vote: Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (in other words, guys, kindly don't lynch me or Kay) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 ##Unvote I'm understanding Kay's eclipse vote better now that I've talked with her. Less interested in lynching her now, but I still don't agree with the wagon on eclipse. I also now realize Iris was mainly voting for deadline, so I'm less apprehensive of her, though I wish she'd say more in-thread. I re-read again due to shifts in opinion, and this is what I came up with. Still not feeling great about Obviam regardless of the buddying situation. On D1 his posts were fluffed up with a bunch of words that "sound" pro-town (this post is a good example of one that does this, will cite specific sentences if necessary) but all his votes came kind of late and it seems like his activity kind of dwindled as the game went on, so he didn't actually come off as pro-actively town as it seemed he wanted to look like. I don't like it when people make big town first impressions but then don't bother living up to it later on, because then I start to think they're just attempting to abuse that first impression. Iris has kiiiiinda been doing the same thing, to a lesser extent. It's really hard to tell when inactivity is intentional in this game, since everybody seems to be busy. :/ ##Vote Excellen I at first thought his D2 play looked pretty aggressively town during my original read through the thread, but then I re-read and saw this post. The rolefishing argument used to pad out his Flint vote seems innocuous enough of a side-point on its own, but when you consider he was supposedly pressing Core to claim for being on the Shinori wagon... yeah. Why the blatant hypocrisy? I don't think being on the Shinori wagon justifies rolefishing if it was supposedly scummy when Flint did it, considering that Core's tiebusting was not actually that weak given that the votes on the opposite wagon boiled down to "Creeper is lurking". Obviam and Excellen are the only two people I'd prefer lynching right now, though I prefer Excellen because his play has seemed more actively scummy and less excusable based on IRL reasons. Plus, I imagine that an Excellen lynch has a higher chance of gathering enough support to go through at the end of the day, which is coming sooner than most of us would like. I wouldn't complain about a NL too much because I don't have the OC experience to tell when it's a good idea or not, though NOC instincts do make me want to eliminate a player first so there's a wagon to consider tomorrow and and fewer targets for the cop and whatnot to pick from. As for Kevin, since people are piling up on him... eh, I'm not really seeing it. His recent switch to eclipse doesn't look that bad when you consider it's consistent with his past suspicions today, and I don't see any other reasons to vote him. I'm not reading him as scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'm going to bed in about 45 minutes, meaning I'll be asleep during deadline. If anybody decides on lynching Obviam over Excellen / Kevin / whoever while I'm still awake, message me on irc and I'll switch for support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'll just be open about this I guess... ##Vote: No Lynch We simply don't have the necessary information to make an informed decision. If anyone tries to screw with this without a good reason, I won't be happy. PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT: Remember that post Raymond said about clearing something up in my role? The gist of it was that all inspection results are 100% accurate, SO. . .no godfathers. That is all. Also would like Raymond to confirm this if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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