AVATAR hack

[Celice]

I think if the MU is critical to the story in more than just mentioning, seizing should be an option. But I mean, this would have to be a direct importance to the plot, where the MU has a noticeable role in how the plot of the game unfolds. If it's a lot more like the MU in FE12, seizing should not be an option, selon moi.

For the growths, whatever the choice is, you can always offer the alternatives as separate addendum patches. That is, if you choose a mage, you'd apply the Mage growths patch, and the same for other classes MISERY did this sorta in their last patch release so the idea has stuck in my head :p

[Jubby]

That's not a bad thought, Celice :) The growths thing is kinda neat.... The My Unit was kinda intended in this patch to have more of an important role, storywise. They'll have actual portraits, contribute to conversations pretty regularly, and just in general be one of the main characters. With that growth patch idea, I could reclass the portraits, too.... >:3

[Onmi]

Well the way I pitched it to Jubby, there's an entire map devoted to picking your custom unit. . uh.... visual representation. mind the eye scarring.

OBVIOUSLY this is a mock up done to simply show the concept.

Also mine is Gender specific because FE8 didn't have a Gender option and I was making for me. Essentially you start with a villager, move towards the class you want. talk to it, and it recruits that unit while simultaneously turning the villager into an enemy (No AI so it wont move) Why? to stop you from moving and teleporting to a different room. Want to take your choice back? use the talk option with the villager. Want to move on? Seize.

When you Seize you're teleported to one of 15 rooms, based upon your class (I.E. the throne you seized) the 7 thrones here each contain a different a unit with different growth rates. Talking to each unit will have it tell you, in broad terms, it's strengths and weaknesses. once selected, it's recruited and you're old unit turns back into an enemy unit, same rules as before.

Final seize takes you to the center room where you have two options. Option 1 continues onto the main game, and Option 2 restarts the map.

Or again... that's how I discussed it with Jubby over PMs (Make no mistake the concept of a My Unit hack is still his, I just came up with one way to execute it, and Jubby has his own way)

Edited February 22, 2012 by Onmi

[Jubby]

Lol, the concept of a My Unit hack has been around forever, I think I'm just the first to implement it's TRUE POWER! Heh. Anyway, mine'll have the same, one map dedicated to MU, but I like seizing, soooo I'll probably do the patch thing like Celice said. Different growths for different folks ;) You'll be able to apply the patches over top of each other, I think, so it should be fine in that you can just change it if you want to do a different playthrough :3

[Anouleth]

in za future, if you seriously want to attempt balancing third tiers, play FE2 first. It's the one FE game that got third tiers right. And for all the wrong reasons

If FE10 had balance issues, it was probably not due to the addition of third tiers.

Third tiers are no more difficult to balance than second tiers are. The issue is having to come up with new class concepts, animations, and extend the game such that third tiers are meaningful. In Fragmaster's hack, every third tier was just a second tier class that had been shifted, and came at the expense of branched promotions (which would have been better). They were poorly implemented with some of the classes having broken exp gain, and I got the impression it wouldn't have been possible for characters to reach 20/20/20 without the Tower otherwise. Unless you're willing to put in a lot of work, third tiers will probably end up harming this project rather than helping it.

[Onmi]

Look Third Tiers should only be considered if your hack is long enough, none of the GBA games warranted them for good reason, being short. If your hack is long, and obviously you need a way for units to remain in play till the end of the game, Third Tiers make perfect sense.

Even discounting the FEditor Patch that allows us to exceed the 31 point cap, all you need to do is make it so Second tiers have mid-stage caps for their classes, and the third tiers have the important stat hit 31. And to answer the "But a lower level Third Tier would be worth less experience than a higher level second tier" just set their class relative power to 5.

WITH the FEditor patch, it's a lot easier to balance the Third Tier classes. But again the main point is "Does the game last long enough to require them" for example, if your hack is a long hack with a lot of enemies, then why the hell not? somethings got to be done to stop you from capping 20/20 and the fights turning into chores. It's not that Fragmasters hack was good in any way, but one failure does not denote an entire concept as impossible. Especially a failure from someone who didn't understand why you would NEED a Tier 3.

Now, I can understand fears about Jubby doing it, if people expected this hack to just be FE7 with My Unit, but I don't think that's the case.

[That One Guy]

Wow. This looks quite interesting, and I do want to see this happen. It's an interesting concept, and me being the curious guy I am, want to see this happen. So I wish Jubby and anyone else who is gonna work on this well.

[Jubby]

I'm still sorta considering third tiers, working out kinks in the idea; however! If it were to be implemented, it would be a lot further into the game, like Onmi said, quite a few chapters full of hard units before the system would even be needed. So I'll think out hacking-wise how it would be implemented, and then if I need it waaaaaaay off in the future, I'll put them in. So for now there aren't any, so no worries to anyone :3 also I would only implement them if necessary, not just throw them in to be like, yay, another friggin tier.

Also, thank you, Ssbmfreak36! I'm glad to have some interest in it :3 I may release a patch when I've got a few chapters done, to get some feedback on balance/MU system/everything else lol, so check back once in a while and hopefully you'll be able to try it out! :)

[Celice]

You could also do it how FE10 did it in the original version, where you don't get to promote to third-tier until you have a very specific item with limited availability. This forces the player to choose what character they want to sky-rocket into an uber-class, or give specific traits to, such as mounting a Hero or something like that. The benefits are not limited to caps--weapon choice, movement, inherent skills, and terrain movement all factor in to what makes a third-tier really worth it. The Paladins could, upon third-tier, for example, gain Dragon mounts. This augments a character's potential without hitting something as basic as caps :/

[CT075]

I actually like that idea, although if you're saying what I think you are (the promotion changes are an attribute of the item, not the class) that'd be pretty interesting to do hacking-wise.

[Jubby]

That IS interesting, Celice :) I always find your ideas refreshing 'cause they're not necessarily just generic FE ideas (I don't think anybody else would think of paladins with dragon mounts :P)

Also, Cam, I think he meant that you could only promote to third tier with a certain item, and those items are VERY limited in game, making it a huuuuuge decision to choose who to promote :P

Hmmm skills :( ASM :'( But I can do weapons (Special weapons locked to tier 3 classes? Like a makeshift SS rank almost?) movement, etc :3

[Onmi]

Man I've been trying to lock weapons to specific classes since forever. I don't want to use the Wo Dao lock for my Hero specific sword and I really wish Wolt could use that damn Prf Bow he's got and ONLY him. I really like how in FE5 so many units had 'signature' weapons although I tend to make them unlockable.

Also I think what Cecile was suggesting was, instead of having Tier-3 Paladin be a super-horse unit, instead it promotes into a Weapon-Triangle Dragon Master, keeping it's Paladin caps. Actually before I was considering Tier 3's I was considering unique split promotions for each character

[Celice]

Also, Cam, I think he meant that you could only promote to third tier with a certain item, and those items are VERY limited in game, making it a huuuuuge decision to choose who to promote :P

That's the exact of my meaning, but that doesn't mean Cam's interpretation and Omni's aren't worth investigating either!

You could almost go an extra yard and say these specific items sent a unit into an irreversable "trance" form, in which they simply are changed by the gods, or some other inevitable force. Whatever your plot caters to. You could make these items lucky treasure an unknowing thief will pick up, an item hidden in an exclusive gaiden chapter, an item given by an important character with more knowing than they let on--it all depends on what you're able to play with. After all, romhacking has always been about playing, contrary to what some people seem to be thinking at this forum!

[Chocolate Kitty]

You could also do it how FE10 did it in the original version--

Wait, are you saying that there's some unreleased version of FE10 that doesn't allow units at level 20 to promote?

Or am I completely missing what you are saying.

[Celice]

Master Crowns are the only possible way to promote to third tier in the Japanese version of FE10. It was adjusted (along with some enemies) in the localized versions, making these third-tiers a lot more prominent, and to an extent, less special. There were still a good number a crowns to go around, if you did all the stuffs to get them, but it wasn't like every unit you ever wanted to abuse reached their third-tiers.

[That One Guy]

Master Crowns are the only possible way to promote to third tier in the Japanese version of FE10. It was adjusted (along with some enemies) in the localized versions, making these third-tiers a lot more prominent, and to an extent, less special. There were still a good number a crowns to go around, if you did all the stuffs to get them, but it wasn't like every unit you ever wanted to abuse reached their third-tiers.

This is very true, along with a couple other things being removed from the NA version. For example, the hidden treasure bug, or something to that effect, which pretty much let you find any hidden item if you were on one of the squares it was hidden on. Also, the idea of third tiers in the hack intrigues me. All the ideas mentioned have a lot of merit. And the inclusion of SS weapons? Could be interesting, could also make things incredibly tedious depending on how the weapon rank system works in your hack. If it's like the normal system, shouldn't be a problem, since it's pretty easy to get SS in FE10. If you do go for SS weapons, I suggest the inclusion of Arms Scrolls, or something like that, due to the fact that from my own personal experience, certain units in FE10 for me required an Arms Scroll to be used to get them to SS or whatever. Back to the subject of 3rd tier though. If you DO include skills, are you gonna make 3rd tiers gain mastery skills a la FE10, or are you gonna do it where it really just depends on the unit, or maybe things that teach skills like FE5 and 10? Whatever it is, it's honestly up to you. One more thing: If you do decide to go for 3rd tier, be careful on how useful you make them. From my experience, in FE10, 3rd tier units were EXTREMELY overpowered at times, and really detracted from the difficulty for me. So just a word of warning: Be careful how powerful you make them, lest you make it too easy to beat the game.

[Anouleth]

This is very true, along with a couple other things being removed from the NA version. For example, the hidden treasure bug, or something to that effect, which pretty much let you find any hidden item if you were on one of the squares it was hidden on.

And that retarded forge system that only served to restrict earlygame DB forges, while having virtually no effect on the GMs.

[Onmi]

This is very true, along with a couple other things being removed from the NA version. For example, the hidden treasure bug, or something to that effect, which pretty much let you find any hidden item if you were on one of the squares it was hidden on. Also, the idea of third tiers in the hack intrigues me. All the ideas mentioned have a lot of merit. And the inclusion of SS weapons? Could be interesting, could also make things incredibly tedious depending on how the weapon rank system works in your hack. If it's like the normal system, shouldn't be a problem, since it's pretty easy to get SS in FE10. If you do go for SS weapons, I suggest the inclusion of Arms Scrolls, or something like that, due to the fact that from my own personal experience, certain units in FE10 for me required an Arms Scroll to be used to get them to SS or whatever. Back to the subject of 3rd tier though. If you DO include skills, are you gonna make 3rd tiers gain mastery skills a la FE10, or are you gonna do it where it really just depends on the unit, or maybe things that teach skills like FE5 and 10? Whatever it is, it's honestly up to you. One more thing: If you do decide to go for 3rd tier, be careful on how useful you make them. From my experience, in FE10, 3rd tier units were EXTREMELY overpowered at times, and really detracted from the difficulty for me. So just a word of warning: Be careful how powerful you make them, lest you make it too easy to beat the game.

I- You can create abilities in FE7? What am I talking about? It's just a matter of ASM hacking...

[That One Guy]

I- You can create abilities in FE7? What am I talking about? It's just a matter of ASM hacking...

Too be perfectly honest, I don't really know much, if anything about hacking, so it may not be possible, it's just an idea. However, if it is possible, it would be very interesting to see. I really do wish I knew stuff about hacking so I could give better feedback on these kinds of things, so I think I'll go read the main topics over here in ROM Hacking later. Also, @Anouleth, I'm not quite sure what system you're talking about, would you care to tell me? The only things I know that were removed from our version are some hidden Master Crowns, the treasure bug, and I think maybe a couple other things that escape me. Speaking of hidden items, are you gonna have hidden items throughout your game Jubby? If so, will you ever release a map of a thing like that?

[Jubby]

It's an intriguing concept :3 I don't really discount any ideas unless they seem really dumb, haha. So maybe I will throw them in, just on random squares. Perhaps to make it even more difficult, they'll be in tough to reach spots, like some of the Secret shops. Maybe if I include third tiers, you'll only be able to buy the promotion items at secret shops :P I'll try not to OP them, lol :3

Skills'd be nice, but that requires programming and I'm still very much a noob in the world of ASM. I understand the base concepts, kinda, but I don't know any codes or anything yet.

[Celice]

There's still the assassinate skill, as well as the dance skills, as well as special weapon-locks for certain kinds of magic or weapons, or even items. You could create an Alchemist, for example, who would be able to properly apply ingredients to raise stats on themselves or allies (just lock the item to that class only), or a magic-user who can correctly wield long-range magics (allow the weapon to be available, but it's only that no one can use it except for a specific class capable of wielding them). Lockpicking/stealing is also already in the game and able to be toyed with.

The Alchemist could be even cooler--throw some sleeping powder at an enemy to turn them asleep for a turn or two. It's just a matter of rerigging what effects an item does :)

[Jubby]

True, between staves and dance items there are many effects to be played with :3 Hmmm I'm considering splitting anima magic into three as well. Of course without ASM that requires some thinking, so I figured maybe make Wind/Thunder/Fire mages and just lock their specific magics to them? I'm still trying to figure out how they'll be considered different enough to split, since the lock idea won't give the effect of a weapon triangle, but I'll figure it out :P Could just make it like in FE9 (and 10 I think) how wind is more effective against pegasi, thunder for wyverns, and I don't know fire would be yet :P I just love tossing around ideas O.O

[That One Guy]

Well, Assassinate/Lethality and the dance skills have been around for a while. And in FE8, there are skills there. 4 if memory serves, Pick for Rogues, Silencer for Assassasins, Great Shield for Generals, and the ever useless Sure Strike for Snipers. If you could figure out how those worked, it's possible you could implement them into an FE7 ROM maybe? Like I said, I don't know much about hacking, soooo...yeah. If it works, yay! If not, oh well. With time comes experience. And with experience comes great power. And with great power comes cliche comic book lines.

[Jubby]

There's a few others, I think, like Slayer for bishops, Pierce for Wyvern Knights, etc :P Skills definitely need to be programmed though, which takes an AWFUL lot more knowledge than your average hacker (Or even pretty decent hacker, which I guess I'd consider myself :P) has :( I'm trying to learn but booooy will it be a tough journey, so I don't know how it'll work out XD We'll seeeeee. I thought for a bit a little while ago about switching to FE8 before I realized that My Unit is impossible in that game :( Without programming that is :P

[Celice]

I wouldn't bother coding up new skills. Especially if you're not sure of your capabilities--and DON'T use anyone else's patches introducing skills, the ones I have seen from english-based members are not fully tested and tend to be pretty buggy, with unforeseen consequences being very probable after you apply them.

You have enough resources in the vanilla game to make the characters pretty unique anyways. Though it would be incredibly cool if you could give Assassins the ability to place mines wherever they please without an item :)