Rate the Unit, Day 30: Duessel

[General Horace]

Duessel is a very good unit. He has an A rank in swords, axes, and lances. This means he is very versitile in his weapon choice, being able to wield every weapon at base except Reginlief, Rapier, Shamsir, Audulma, Garm, Vidofnir, and all bows and magic and staves. He's probably your best non Seth unit in Ephraim route, and makes a potentially difficult chapter like the phantom ship a joke. Trivializes Valter with a dragon axe or dragonspear, or if you're cool enough to walk him up to Caellach, makes him a piece of cake with the Swordslayer. He's your best candidate for Garm when playing Ephraim route, and is still a solid condidate if playing Eirika route, although I've found that Gerik is better on Eirika route. I'm giving Duessel a 7. He has some drawbacks. One, he is affected by effective weaponrly. Something like a Hammer coming off a 20Strength warrior does a whopping 33 damage to base Duessel. He's probably not getting hit, it's alright. He also has 6 movement, despite being mounted. Why don't great knights have 7 movement? Oh well. Oh yeah, he's mounted. This means he can partake in rescue chains, no? No, he can't. Because he has 6 movement, and a large con. This con means that he can't be rescued by any promoted unit. Except maybe Vanessa and Tana, I'm too lazy to actually check.

shit, not as long as i thought

Edited February 29, 2012 by General Horace

[Esaka]

9/10 :D

Because Seth-move=Dman

[Elieson]

caellach with a swordslayer? Duracell will take forever to get there

Edited February 29, 2012 by Elieson

[eclipse]

Stop being a meanie, Horace~! You can't pick up awesome chicks that way! Ahem. . .

Duessel is what Gilliam wishes he was when he promoted to Great Knight. He starts with more offense than Dozla, more Speed that the average Gilliam, and more weapon ranks than Seth (Seth is godly an all, but he can't do squat with axes). He's not very portable, though, so getting him front and center can be tricky. There's Warp, but then there's Shadowshot and Stone.

7.5/10

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

I don't see why these ratings all clearly favor prepromotes over, you know, actually good units. Especially in fe8 where unlimited leveling is possible (without arena abuse). Anyways, Duessel is a great unit for beginners but is outclassed by Franz and Kyle statwise. He has the Great Knight's curse of being too slow to be a paladin but too weak to be a general. That wouldn't be too bad except for his awful RES which seemed to make him the most vulnerable target on the battlefield during the one playthrough when I actually used him (my first playthrough). He is a cool character and has a pretty awesome title (Obsidian General or something like that), but for me practicality and availability is second to sheer stats.

3.25/10

Because he's not Seth.

[Integrity]

I don't see why these ratings all clearly favor prepromotes over, you know, actually good units. Especially in fe8 where unlimited leveling is possible (without arena abuse). Anyways, Duessel is a great unit for beginners but is outclassed by Franz and Kyle statwise. He has the Great Knight's curse of being too slow to be a paladin but too weak to be a general. That wouldn't be too bad except for his awful RES which seemed to make him the most vulnerable target on the battlefield during the one playthrough when I actually used him (my first playthrough). He is a cool character and has a pretty awesome title (Obsidian General or something like that), but for me practicality and availability is second to sheer stats.

What the fuck are you on about?

That's the short version. I'm editing up the real version.

EDIT:

1: Franz and Kyle have to get going to outclass Duessel. Base Duessel is outclassed (in a vague sense) by Paladin!Franz at 20/1, and Kyle at the same. At this point, they cannot both be promoted and neither is likely to be.

2: Duessel's Speed is 12 +30%. This isn't great, thanks to high base level, but it also isn't terrible. He's not getting doubled by anything meaningful ever. Duessel's Strength (17 +55%) outclasses Franz forever and Kyle and Gilliam for a long time each. His only misstep here is GK MOV.

3: Duessel's "awful res" AT BASE equals Kyle and Franz's 20/20 RES. This is bad how?

And 4: Duessel has seventeen fucking Defense at base. This is more than Franz forever and Kyle until 20/10 (and duessel's growth is higher, so level for level duessel always wins).

EDIT2:

And since it actually matters, don't forget Duessel's ability to use any physical weapon he wants besides bows, at join. No promoting into D Axes or raising Swords for him!

EDIT3: if it wasn't clear enough, I'm not counting this vote unless you convince me otherwise

Edited February 29, 2012 by Integrity

[Thor Odinson]

FE8 it's just so piss easy to not level anyone of the growth units and just ram Seth through the entire earlygame effortlessly that you might as well use prepromotes anyway. Idk I never found raising units too appealing if I can just have free gods because grinding and babying is so incredibly boring and pointless as far as how I play

And prepromotes have higher amounts of MANLY because there aren't any lolis or shotas as prepromotes which pleases me greatly

So yeah for those of us who doesn't give a shit about numbers at like, endgame and like to base shit off of performance vs effort, Prepromotes generally win out.

[JaketheGr3at]

What the fuck are you on about?

That's the short version. I'm editing up the real version.

EDIT:

1: Franz and Kyle have to get going to outclass Duessel. Base Duessel is outclassed (in a vague sense) by Paladin!Franz at 20/1, and Kyle at the same. At this point, they cannot both be promoted and neither is likely to be.

2: Duessel's Speed is 12 +30%. This isn't great, thanks to high base level, but it also isn't terrible. He's not getting doubled by anything meaningful ever. Duessel's Strength (17 +55%) outclasses Franz forever and Kyle and Gilliam for a long time each. His only misstep here is GK MOV.

3: Duessel's "awful res" AT BASE equals Kyle and Franz's 20/20 RES. This is bad how?

And 4: Duessel has seventeen fucking Defense at base. This is more than Franz forever and Kyle until 20/10 (and duessel's growth is higher, so level for level duessel always wins).

EDIT2:

And since it actually matters, don't forget Duessel's ability to use any physical weapon he wants besides bows, at join. No promoting into D Axes or raising Swords for him!

EDIT3: if it wasn't clear enough, I'm not counting this vote unless you convince me otherwise

^ Words of wisdom right there. Anyways:

Pros:

Crazy good base stats

Crazy good weapon ranks

This is FE 8 so his speed will be sufficient for the game. (Though a speedwing is nice)

Good Supports

RNG proof forever.

Garm use for plus 5 speed

Good Supports

Hands you a Knight Crest

Cons:

Low Mov

Not many levels left

Easily 8/10 but from bias for having a sweet ass beard his score is, 8.5/10

[Caliban of Sycorax]

His problem is a double weakness to both armor and horse slaying weapons. That really doesn't stop him, though, because he has amazing defenses otherwise, and he's also got the ability to use every weapon. He does really well with Garm.

Sadly he lacks movement like other horses but he's pretty good at rescuing. He's a good front line unit, by far.

8.25/10

[riariadne]

8/10

WTC, triple A, 41/17/9 base defenses. Not available for half the game, but is pretty damn good when he's around.

I am not counting slayer weapons as a con for Duessel because as displayed above they don't really pose a threat to him at all.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Dirk Strider

[Loki Laufeyson]

Duessel, that guy who defects.

Pros:

Manly bases.

Manly weapon ranks in all the weapons.

Manly beard.

Manly in general.

One shots things because hes manly.

Cons:

Not all that fantastic on Eirika's route. (He can srsly roflstomp on Ephraim's though. Cuz hes around more.)

Speed is kinda low for late game.

Duessel is manly. Hes Sean Connery on a horse. But i only found him really great on Ephraim's route. He can still be good on Eirika's but hes just not around enough there. I dont really use him very much generally speaking but hes pretty great anyway. (i just...hardly find room for him.) If im playing Eirika's route (and tower spam), theres already lots of mounted guys on my team. If Duessel gets deployed on my playthroughs, hes raping thngs with axes. Because yes.

8/10 generally speaking. The dude is pretty solid. Bias says 7/10 because i just dont use him that much.

[Ether]

Duessel is amazing. Massive base Def and Str, can basically use any relevant physical weapon in the game at base, 8/10.

*insert hate @ prepromote hater*

[nabvfgsyeahuwdefgfue7huiwr]

What the fuck are you on about?

That's the short version. I'm editing up the real version.

EDIT:

1: Franz and Kyle have to get going to outclass Duessel. Base Duessel is outclassed (in a vague sense) by Paladin!Franz at 20/1, and Kyle at the same. At this point, they cannot both be promoted and neither is likely to be.

2: Duessel's Speed is 12 +30%. This isn't great, thanks to high base level, but it also isn't terrible. He's not getting doubled by anything meaningful ever. Duessel's Strength (17 +55%) outclasses Franz forever and Kyle and Gilliam for a long time each. His only misstep here is GK MOV.

3: Duessel's "awful res" AT BASE equals Kyle and Franz's 20/20 RES. This is bad how?

And 4: Duessel has seventeen fucking Defense at base. This is more than Franz forever and Kyle until 20/10 (and duessel's growth is higher, so level for level duessel always wins).

EDIT2:

And since it actually matters, don't forget Duessel's ability to use any physical weapon he wants besides bows, at join. No promoting into D Axes or raising Swords for him!

EDIT3: if it wasn't clear enough, I'm not counting this vote unless you convince me otherwise

So you only count the scores you agree with? Well that sounds fair. No wonder none of the ratings make any sense. No one should pay any attention to these results as you are clearly biased therefore they are obviously skewed results. Why even have any pretense of fairness, Why don't you just appoint yourself Supreme Overlord Dictator Despot of the Rating system?

And by the time you get Duessel, Franz is already promoted and a heck of a lot better. Duessel's endgame stats are vastly inferior to any non-prepromoted unit. But of course you aren't going to count my vote because you don't agree with it.

You can swear at me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that these results aren't fair.

Edited February 29, 2012 by FireEmblemReignsSupreme

[PKL]

Inb4 an angry integ spouting flames....

Edited February 29, 2012 by PKL

[Shadow Mir]

*gets a lawn chair and some popcorn*

[Ether]

So you only count the scores you agree with? Well that sounds fair. No wonder none of the ratings make any sense. No one should pay any attention to these results as you are clearly biased therefore they are obviously skewed results. Why even have any pretense of fairness, Why don't you just appoint yourself Supreme Overlord Dictator Despot of the Rating system?

And by the time you get Duessel, Franz is already promoted and a heck of a lot better. Duessel's endgame stats are vastly inferior to any non-prepromoted unit. But of course you aren't going to count my vote because you don't agree with it.

You can swear at me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that these results aren't fair.

Your vote was discounted because you didn't give good reasoning. You basically said "I don't like prepromotes, bad score." You said Franz and Kyle would be better at the time, which is clearly a case of "Not X", which is discounted in the rules. In addition, even that was disproven.

Look at the 'reasoning' you gave.

-Worse endgame stats that Franz - Completely irrelevant. Duessel will do fine against DK with Garm anyway, and neither are necessary.

-Franz/Kyle will get more shiny green numbers - Irrelevant. Duessel's bases are sufficient to do anything you need him to do with the proper equipment. "But the others can do it with Iron!", who cares? You aren't short of cash.

Give actual reasoning, instead of butthurt prepromote hate, and maybe someone will give a shit what you have to say. As is, you aren't even fulfilling the rating criteria.

[Integrity]

So you only count the scores you agree with? Well that sounds fair. No wonder none of the ratings make any sense. No one should pay any attention to these results as you are clearly biased therefore they are obviously skewed results. Why even have any pretense of fairness, Why don't you just appoint yourself Supreme Overlord Dictator Despot of the Rating system?

And by the time you get Duessel, Franz is already promoted and a heck of a lot better. Duessel's endgame stats are vastly inferior to any non-prepromoted unit. But of course you aren't going to count my vote because you don't agree with it.

You can swear at me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that these results aren't fair.

Sir, I've marked every single score I have not counted, and in every single instance I made it abundantly clear why I didn't count the score. I also, in every instance, have given the party a chance to explain their reasoning behind a score. I resent the implications here.

Moving on to my "pretense of fairness", I have quite clearly established precedence for my right to question scores, whether I decide to throw them out or not. But, you say, that's precedent and not necessarily law! I direct you to Rule 2:

- Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted (unless they fall into the general parameters of the average rating, but reasoning is still strongly encouraged on those even if you just wanna quote people) — incredibly low scores or high scores without proper justification will not be counted. Don't put in some random text thinking it'd count as justification. Put in at least a little thought and give REAL reasoning.

If you'd like for this to be explained in smaller words, what it means is if your rating consists of false facts that I can disprove:

but is outclassed by Franz and Kyle statwise.

Great Knight's curse of being too slow to be a paladin but too weak to be a general.

his awful RES which seemed to make him the most vulnerable target on the battlefield

I will, to the best of my ability, disprove them. I have. Should I, on a related tangent, nitpick at that post:

the one playthrough when I actually used him (my first playthrough).

I would read "the only time I actually used Duessel was back when I was new." This, combined with the blatantly false nature of your "facts", drove me to disagree vehemently.

In fact, should I pick apart this very post, you have disprovable "facts" again:

Duessel's endgame stats are vastly inferior to any non-prepromoted unit.

Average stats are viewable on this very site, and his stats are not "vastly" inferior to "any non-prepromoted unit" unless your counting ability is parallel to my Russian.

And then there's the miiiiinor point where you decided to shout right back at me when I extended, to you, the opportunity to explain yourself. And then you go on to taunt me like a child.

I see no more to be said here.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Integrity

[Elieson]

Endgame stats net either kill or overkill. A killing unit isn't better if they are overkilling, and vice versa. Duessel does what he needs to do just fine. Sure, his 20/20 stats don't compare to Franz's, but how necessary are 20/20 stats to completing the game in the first place?

If you are placing your vote on the pretense of cappable stats over contribution to efficient gameplay, say so.

[Integrity]

Sure, his 20/20 stats don't compare to Franz's

I find it necessary to note that Duracell THRASHES Franz in DEF and RES at 20/20, and ties him for STR. His only real losses are SKL and SPD.

[Elieson]

I find it necessary to note that Duracell THRASHES Franz in DEF and RES at 20/20, and ties him for STR. His only real losses are SKL and SPD.

Don't compare means they are different. I in no way intended that to mean inferior.

[Ein]

Duessey is cool. He WTAs everything and tanks like a champ. 7/10

[Integrity]

"Man, Duessel doesn't even compare to Franz" = Duessel is vastly inferior to Franz, Elie. That's the only way I've ever heard that turn of phrase used.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Integrity

[Thor Odinson]

The only game outside of a draft I even try to play for turncounts happens to be a hack, so I am, by no means, an efficient player with all my rampant favouritism issues.

I will, however, like I have said in the past, say again that it's incredibly hard to get units to 20/20 ever unless you start promoted at the very beginning of the game (read: Seth) without blatant abuse of any sort due to there just /isn't that much exp to go around in a 22 chapter long game/. Most people are not willing to sit there and wait for every single reinforcement to drain out of their ass since it's absolutely pointless, out of the way, and quite honestly, just boring. A more likely team would have equivalents of 20/5-20/10 depending on the usefulness of the unit in question BY ENDGAME. And units aren't even around that until ENDGAME.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Elieson]

Then we had a moment if misunderstanding there. Integ, so you know my only faults with Duracell are his non-doubling base speed, which can be easily fixed, and his class itself. I still use the juggernaut.

I apologize for my now that I reread my post, admittedly poor choice of words, but I reiterate, I in no way meant to place him as inferior.

[Integrity]

s'fair, no big deal. It gave me a platform from which to reiterate Duessel's stats.