Rate the Unit, Day 27: Fir

[Pitbuller26]

I give Fir a 6/10

Excellent base stats for her level, which is 1. 9 strength as a level 1 myrmidon!? Skill and speed, she's expected to cap those. I agree with everyone saying she's "Not Quite Rutger". She's certainly better than most people in FE6 and joins at a time where everything that's trying to kill her will have a hard time killing her. She certainly isn't necessary like how the cavs, pals, and Rutger are but she certainly isn't a waste either. In short she can sit on the bench or be used actively without much detriment.

[Venusaur]

Fir... she kinda plays second fiddle to Rutger, as she's in essence a worse version of him. Even then, she's quite useful, as like Rutger she can reliably double, has access to the Wo Dao, is quite accurate, makes a great boss-killer... Not too useful in efficient play due to her low starting level, infantry move and being generally outclassed, but she works great as a second, though lesser, Rutger in casual play.

6/10

[Colonel M]

I just want to point out to the people that say she "reliably doubles" that she loses 5 AS with a Steel Sword and that once Wo Dao breaks she's stuck with Iron to double with, which constantly fails to ORKO.

Furthermore, Wo Dao can also be used with Rutger to conserve Killing Edges.

Finally, those that say Fir is Rutger lite are dead wrong. Rutger is already promoted and slaying bosses like they're nothing. Rutger is in a league of his own. The gods fear him. The gods constantly mock Fir with needing a heavily competed promotion item, Killing Edges out of reach for a while, heavy AS loss with a semibasic weapon, her shittacular durability, and a slew of other things already mentioned. She has to be promoted to even touch Rutger, and even then he's probably blowing her away. I hate doing X is better than Y, but Rutger is a rare case in general.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Colonel M

[Narga_Rocks]

overrated as all fuck 2/10

Should be tossed because there is no justification.

if not, then my vote is

underrated by way too many 8/10

Narga stop overrating her.......... come to the dark side with me.

I'll stop overrating when you stop underrating. 5/10 minimum, kthx.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Narga_Rocks

[Integrity]

Should be tossed because there is no justification.

As it should be, as it is. Haven't been watching this thread.

dondon, put more words in please

[Dark Sage]

can get exp from axe users on the isles then runs into a roadblock in all subsequent chapters (read, she's really bad in them until promotion) and never gets out of her hole.

2.5/10

[OrangeCrush980]

Finally, those that say Fir is Rutger lite are dead wrong. Rutger is already promoted and slaying bosses like they're nothing. Rutger is in a league of his own. The gods fear him.

As awesome as Rutger is, he isn't anywhere near Glass' level of swordplay.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Fir....

Pros:

Can be speedy.

Wo Dao.

Has some fun on the Isles.

Cons:

:dry: :dry:

Starts at level one.

kinda squishy.

sword lock of doom.

I dont like this chick at all. Im not a fan of female myrms i noticed. I kinda like Marisa despite sucking though. Her face just....bothers me! D:< She joins way underleveled and ugh. Most of your guys are hitting the promotion range right around now and shes all being D:. I dunno. She grows better than a lot of other units, so training her isnt terrible. But would you? Rutger is already promoted and raping everything. One of the cavs you've been using is promoted or promoting..Dieck exists for more sword fun...The question is, is there room on your team for Fir? There's no room on mine.

Little brat gets 5/10. 3/10 bias cuz i freaking dont like her.

[Raven]

I just want to point out to the people that say she "reliably doubles" that she loses 5 AS with a Steel Sword and that once Wo Dao breaks she's stuck with Iron to double with, which constantly fails to ORKO.

Furthermore, Wo Dao can also be used with Rutger to conserve Killing Edges.

Finally, those that say Fir is Rutger lite are dead wrong. Rutger is already promoted and slaying bosses like they're nothing. Rutger is in a league of his own. The gods fear him. The gods constantly mock Fir with needing a heavily competed promotion item, Killing Edges out of reach for a while, heavy AS loss with a semibasic weapon, her shittacular durability, and a slew of other things already mentioned. She has to be promoted to even touch Rutger, and even then he's probably blowing her away. I hate doing X is better than Y, but Rutger is a rare case in general.

There are many units who consistently fail to ORKO, so don't hold it against Fir just because she can bring many enemy units down to single-digit HP with a mere Iron Sword. And it's not as if Fir is going to be the only unit on the field - she will be taking some enemies on alone, as well as finishing off units that have already been damaged. Just because Rutger is better when Fir joins, that's no reason to stamp Fir into the dirt. This whole thing should be done on Fir, and Fir alone. Comparing units to other units in their topics really skews the whole thing up.

[Thor Odinson]

Florina, please remember that bias only accounts for ONE point and not two.

[Sunwoo]

I think Florina has mentioned before that she doesn't want her bias score counted in the votes.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think Florina has mentioned before that she doesn't want her bias score counted in the votes.

Exactly. Its why its a separate score altogether. Its how ive been doing it since the very beginning. Because the real worth of a unit is often lower or higher than my opinion of them.

[Duff Ostrich]

There are many units who consistently fail to ORKO, so don't hold it against Fir just because she can bring many enemy units down to single-digit HP with a mere Iron Sword. And it's not as if Fir is going to be the only unit on the field - she will be taking some enemies on alone, as well as finishing off units that have already been damaged. Just because Rutger is better when Fir joins, that's no reason to stamp Fir into the dirt. This whole thing should be done on Fir, and Fir alone. Comparing units to other units in their topics really skews the whole thing up.

Fir isn't bringing everyone down to single digit hp with an iron sword when she joins, which is why her combat is being held against her. All she's even doubling at base are steel axemen. She gets fast pretty quick, but she's hurt by poor constitution and the need to be fed kills until her speed gets good, and she is always frail. Rutger could not exist and she would still be sub par.

[-Cynthia-]

All she's even doubling at base are steel axemen.

Not a very accurate statement. Fir's 13 base AS doubles everything with 9 AS or lower, which seems to be most of the enemies in C9, excluding the boss, mercs, and the odd pirate.

[Duff Ostrich]

And here I look like a fool for checking chapter 11's enemy stats :/ Sorry about that. Cynthia is correct.

EDIT: I'm just noticing how bad c9 and c10 enemies are. Base Marcus looks great here.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Duff Ostrich

[Colonel M]

There are many units who consistently fail to ORKO, so don't hold it against Fir just because she can bring many enemy units down to single-digit HP with a mere Iron Sword.

I never knew she could ORKO with Iron Sword a Wyvern Knight.

But the issue is were focusing on the 2 and a half chapters where axe users ate common. After Chapter 12x, she's in the shit box. Go read my debate against Inui on Lot vs Fir. She's total shit on the Cavaliers, and it doesn't get significantly better against the Wyvern Knights. Then, we have a little Lance-happy enemies or Swords, which means she's either at equals or at a disadvantage. Her returns after the islands and before promotion is pretty piss poor. It's better than some units like Oujay, but that's why I gave her an actual 4.0 (remember that I did throw in the bias vote, but Inui is the boy to glare at).

Like someone said above, her above average Spd gets a knife once Steel Swords come into play. And she's not always bringing enemies to single digit HP. With WTA, she has 15 Atk, and Fighters sport well over 30 HP. She still will fail a lot to ORKO with Steel Sword too, and her Avoid is cut by 10. Her durability is purely reliant on dodge, and units like Rutger and even Dieck exceed her in that department. Then you have units like Lot and Marcus who can take more than two swings.

The worst issue is that axe units aren't the only units. They're abundant, but you have sticky situations like the Ballistae in Chapter 10, and Shamans and Mercenaries are still around. She obviously has no WTA there. If she wields Steel and the Fighters have Iron Axes or Hand Axes she won't double them with it. With Fir you're playing Russian Roulette with Axe users... And the rest is merely history.

And it's not as if Fir is going to be the only unit on the field - she will be taking some enemies on alone, as well as finishing off units that have already been damaged.

If you've read any of my posts closely, you will know for a fucking fact that she cannot take on enemies alone without playing into RNG hands. Fir is not Mia. Mia is able to do what she does dodging because she doesn't face an unreal number of enemies and Ike is often close to give the +Avo support. And finishing enemies? Come on, even Wendy can finish off Archers, but we aren't crediting her for that.

Just because Rutger is better when Fir joins, that's no reason to stamp Fir into the dirt. This whole thing should be done on Fir, and Fir alone. Comparing units to other units in their topics really skews the whole thing up.

The issue is, outside of boss killing and some minor utility functions, even Rutger isn't always hot stuff. He's gimped by not having a horse, he fails to ORKO a lot of enemies without criticals, and some like Wyvern Lords take 2, he lacks 2 range, he actually has shoddy durability, and his CEV is questionable. He's there primarily as a boss killer first, and as a secondary combat unit. He's awesome no doubt, but he has disadvantages that are pretty up there that are mostly forgiven by killing bosses.

Again, Fir is far from durable, she is almost constantly 2HKOed barring scrubs, has to work with either Iron or Steel which means not doubling or not ORKOing or both! She isn't "good" until she promotes, and even at that point she's a rough unit.

I'm not saying she completely blows. She has prominent advantages, but other units brag utility at little to no cost or are just good. She's purely a growth unit that takes babying, almost to the extreme, to even reach "par" with your other bad asses. And you gave her a fucking 8!

Edited March 31, 2012 by Colonel M

[Esaka]

Fir...

RNG screwage ahoy!

Seriously 25%... meh. It'd be alright, but she has to compete with Rutger and Dieck, heck even Gonzales for dat crest. She supports Bartre and he's great...but Echidna route.

3.5/10

[dondon151]

As it should be, as it is. Haven't been watching this thread.

dondon, put more words in please

dude, i've been putting in that many words into every single previous rating and no one has given me shit for it

my credentials should already be justification enough. seriously, fuck narga for being a whistleblower

Edited March 31, 2012 by dondon151

[Thor Odinson]

Exactly. Its why its a separate score altogether. Its how ive been doing it since the very beginning. Because the real worth of a unit is often lower or higher than my opinion of them.

Fair enough. I probably missed that somewhere, then.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Raven]

I never knew she could with Iron Sword a Wyvern Knight.

But the issue is were focusing on the 2 and a half chapters where axe users ate common. After Chapter 12x, she's in the shit box. Go read my debate against Inui on Lot vs Fir. She's total shit on the Cavaliers, and it doesn't get significantly better against the Wyvern Knights. Then, we have a little Lance-happy enemies or Swords, which means she's either at equals or at a disadvantage. Her returns after the islands and before promotion is pretty piss poor. It's better than some units like Oujay, but that's why I gave her an actual 4.0 (remember that I did throw in the bias vote, but Inui is the boy to glare at).

Like someone said above, her above average Spd gets a knife once Steel Swords come into play. And she's not always bringing enemies to single digit HP. With WTA, she has 15 Atk, and Fighters sport well over 30 HP. She still will fail a lot to ORKO with Steel Sword too, and her Avoid is cut by 10. Her durability is purely reliant on dodge, and units like Rutger and even Dieck exceed her in that department. Then you have units like Lot and Marcus who can take more than two swings.

The worse issue is that axe units aren't the only units. They're abundant, but you have sticky situations like the Ballistae in Chapter 10, and Shamans and Mercenaries are still around. She obviously has no WTA there. If she wields Steel and the Fighters have Iron Axes or Hand Axes she won't double them with it. With Fir you're playing Russian Roulette with Axe users... And the rest is merely history.

If you've read any of my posts closely, you will know for a fucking fact that she cannot take on enemies alone without playing into RNG hands. Fir is not Mia. Mia is able to do what she does dodging because she doesn't face an unreal number of enemies and Ike is often close to give the +Avo support. And finishing enemies? Come on, even Wendy can finish off Archers, but we aren't crediting her for that.

The issue is, outside of boss killing and some minor utility functions, even Rutger isn't always hot stuff. He's gimped by not having a horse, he fails to ORKO a lot of enemies without criticals, and some like Wyvern Lords take 2, he lacks 2 range, he actually has shoddy durability, and his CEV is questionable. He's there primarily as a boss killer first, and as a secondary combat unit. He's awesome no doubt, but he has disadvantages that are pretty up there that are mostly forgiven by killing bosses.

Again, Fir is far from durable, she is almost constantly 2HKOed barring scribe, has to work with either Iron or Steel which means not doubling or not ORKOing or both! She isn't "good" until she promotes, and even at that point she's a rough unit.

I'm not saying she completely blows. She has prominent advantages, but other units brag utility at little to no cost or are just good. She's purely a growth unit that takes babying, almost to the extreme, to even reach "par" with your other bad asses. And you gave her a fucking 8!

I won't deny anything you're saying, however I do know that with babying and being careful, she can (and always has been through my experiences) been a good, reliable unit once the initial training is passed.

As with any unit, it's just placing the unit in the right situation to deal with the appropriate threats. Fir's speed growth is good enough so that she can double a lot more than just Steel Axe enemies with a Steel Sword in due time. The Wo Dao alone should allow her to obtain about 4 levels, considering her high rate of growth. Throw in a couple of boss kills, I've had her promoted by the time Ch.13 rolls around. Babying indeed, but the reward is that you've got one hell of a unit at your disposal. Promotion alone gives her +3 AS, and is most definitely by then doubling many enemies even with a Steel Sword. So yes, I did give her a "fucking 8". I was considering 8.5, but I thought 8 is high enough.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Raven

[Narga_Rocks]

dude, i've been putting in that many words into every single previous rating and no one has given me shit for it

my credentials should already be justification enough. seriously, fuck narga for being a whistleblower

You're welcome

Seriously, though, a lot of times you give at least something. You often put in one short sentence and I don't complain because you at least say something relevant. Merely stating that other people overrate her is not a justification. How about "frail and takes too much babying". At least that'd be something.

[Exiledwolf]

Fir.. Another sword user in a game were swords are actually better than axes?

Anywho she has a shaky start even though at the axe island paradise. Strength growth hurts and more chance to be RNG screwed...

Rutger lite gets 4.5/10

[Parrhesia]

25% strength growth. 15% defence growth. Added all up that makes for a solid 40%. So... 4, but 3 because fuck myrmidons, seriously, I mean I know they're good and her bases are good but really she's just bad after a while

... I am slightly impressed that Fir is a level 1 myrmidon that joins midgame and has a short ride on her bases before just failing at everything completely.

[Ardan]

I won't deny anything you're saying, however I do know that with babying and being careful, she can (and always has been through my experiences) been a good, reliable unit once the initial training is passed.

you remind me of those guys on youtube/gamefaqs who love their growth units. I find it interesting you only gave wendy 5%, considering I've heard of multiple accounts saying she is great when trained. Seems right up your alley.

[eclipse]

I'll agree with dondon and say that's she's overrated. I'll even expound on why.

Her bases are great for level 1, but her Strength is expected to grow once every four levels, if the RNG's being fair. Guy has enough problems with his 30% Strength growth; Fir's in an even iffier situation. Axes are mainly in the Western Isles; after that, it's stuff that isn't axes, and Fir doesn't appreciate that. Oonce the Wo Dao's gone, she's not doing impressive damage (or if she is, she's sacrificing her AS). Her affinity's nice, but her support partners are Rutger (whose affinity doesn't exactly help with raw damage output), some guy on a horse, her dad (see Rutger), Shin (not only is he on a horse, he doesn't help with damage output), and Karel (the affinity she wants to support with, but WAY too late). It's like Guy, but with less levels, less time, worse support list and female.

3.5/10