Overall, what scrapped features do you support/oppose the removal of?

[Balcerzak]

Why is no one else bringing this discussion to the magic merge topic?

Because we don't really care?

You should care. No more derailing. I've moved the offending posts. Don't make new ones.

[goodperson707]

FE9 = PoR

FE10 = RD

FE9 =/= RD

huh what does this mean their caps in radiant dawn are totally different all stats exempt res for males are 30 or above and none are above 35

not counting hp of course

for sientials

Edited May 13, 2012 by goodperson707

[Bryan]

Swordmasters aren't balanced, they're all speed and skill. Heroes are a balanced with more of a focus on Speed and Skill. Halberdiers are a balanced class with more of a focus on Defense and Power.

Lets look at FE7's hero max stats.

STR:25

SKILL:30

SPD:26

DEF:25

RES:22

Now lets look at FE9 hero Max Stats

STR:26

SKILL:27

SPD:28

DEF:24

RES:20

Now lets look at Halberdiers

STR:25

SKILL:28

SPD:26

DEF:28

RES:25

You can see that Heroes are Faster and Halberdiers are more focused on defense.

huh what does this mean their caps in radiant dawn are totally different all stats exempt res for males are 30 or above and none are above 35

not counting hp of course

for sientials

We never talked about FE10, FE9 only has two tiers.

[Saethori]

huh what does this mean their caps in radiant dawn are totally different all stats exempt res for males are 30 or above and none are above 35

not counting hp of course

for sientials

While phrased poorly, I can understand what you mean. The comparison values are difficult to match when the Hero and Halberdier units have no common ground.

So let's establish it.

[spoiler=Stat Cap discussion]First thing to note is that Heroes have had the same stat caps for their last five incarnations, in the GBA and DS games. This is, specifically, 25 STR, 30 SKL, 26 SPD, 25 DEF, 22 RES.

Heroes are commonly stated to be the middle ground of defense and offense between Warriors and Swordmasters. Granted that they use both axes and swords, this seems like a fair analogy, and as both of these other classes appear in PoR, we can use them as comparison.

Swordmaster caps are 24 STR, 29 SKL, 30 SPD, 22 DEF, and 23 RES. (In FE9, 24 DEF and 22 RES)

Warrior caps are 30 STR, 28 SKL, 26~27 SPD, 25~28 DEF, 20~22 RES. (Warriors have been rebalanced frequently, so this is pretty inconsistent.)

So, Heroes have STR, DEF, and RES between the two, higher SKL than both of them, and Warrior's Speed. Compared to Swordmasters, they hit slightly harder and more accurately and take hits better, but dodge (and, of course, critical) less. Compared to Warriors, they hit and take hits worse, are just as fast. but more accurate.

Comparing their values to Halberdier specifically, in FE9, a Halberdier has 25 STR, 28 SKL, 26 SPD, 28 DEF, 25 RES.

So, Halberdiers have STR and SKL between the two, higher RES and DEF than both of them, and Warrior's Speed. Compared to Swordmasters, they hit slightly harder, are less accurate, nimble, and likely to land criticals, and resist attacks better. Compared to Warriors, they hit worse, are just as fast and accurate, and resist attacks better.

What does all that mean? Well, Heroes and Halberdiers are actually very similar, practically identical, in stats. Halberdiers are weaker in SKL, but stronger in DEF and RES and have access to fewer weapons. (Unfortunately, they never had the weapon critical bonus that Swordmasters and Berserkers had.)

...In other words, statistically they're not so great offensively, being simply defensively-geared Heroes. Their only real claim to fame is being the only non-armor/mounted lance user, short of Super Recruit Amelia in FE8 and now Master Lord Krom.

EDIT: I read a 28 as a 22 for some reason, so I had to correct my maths. x.x

Edited May 15, 2012 by Saethori

[Emperor Hardin]

Comparing their values to Halberdier specifically, in FE9, a Halberdier has 25 STR, 28 SKL, 26 SPD, 22 DEF, 25 RES. (FE10 later increases the defense and lowers the resistance, but FE10 stats change everyone else's caps so it can't be used for comparison.)

You made a mistake with Halberdier defense in FE9. Halberdiers have 28(out of 30) DEF which is much higher then 22 DEF. Heroes have never had defense to rival Generals, not even in FE4.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Emperor Hardin

[BBM]

You made a mistake with Halberdier defense in FE9. Halberdiers have 28 DEF which is much higher then 25 DEF. Heroes have never had defense to rival Generals, not even in FE4.

In FE4, Heroes didn't exist. The closest things to Heroes were Forrests, which were just a shittier version of Swordmasters.

[Emperor Hardin]

In FE4, Heroes didn't exist. The closest things to Heroes were Forrests, which were just a shittier version of Swordmasters.

I'm aware of Heroes being known as Forrests and being inferior to Swordmasters in FE4. Ground Sword using units in FE4 got really broken stats, Swordmasters and Forrests having 27 STR which was higher then Warriors and Generals.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Emperor Hardin

[LegendaryHero0]

Actually, you can buy pretty much anything. Master Seals, Change Seals, and even Brave weapons all eventually become available in regular shops, and earlier in the game, you can buy them from traveling merchants. Each merchant offers three items, and sells just one of each, but they can sell even rarer things, like Tomahawks, Speedwings, etc.

Wow, they sell stat boosting items as well??

Maxing out stats should be no problem at all in this game..

[arvilino]

Wow, they sell stat boosting items as well??

Maxing out stats should be no problem at all in this game..

The Merchants randomly appear though and only sell 1 of each of their 3 item sets statboosters aren't guaranteed to appear in the sets.

[LegendaryHero0]

The Merchants randomly appear though and only sell 1 of each of their 3 item sets statboosters aren't guaranteed to appear in the sets.

But it's still access to an infinite amount of the items, correct?

[Othin]

But it's still access to an infinite amount of the items, correct?

That it is. You can also get more through Fame points, although some are really expensive.

I think it's easier to just use Change Seals, though. You can buy them freely from Ch16 on for the same price as a stat booster, and get up to 20 more levels to gain stats with.

[Saethori]

You made a mistake with Halberdier defense in FE9. Halberdiers have 28(out of 30) DEF which is much higher then 22 DEF. Heroes have never had defense to rival Generals, not even in FE4.

I could have sworn it read 22 when I checked the page. >_> I guess 2 and 8 look sort of similar when I'm sick.

I suppose I'll go and edit in the corrections.

[TheVinceKnight]

It is certainly possible to max out stats with stat boosters from Merchants. You can get the Space-Time gate item top make a merchant pop up, similar to the zombie powder thing. Although I only have one Gate and I don't want to use it.

Although Change Seals are available, Stat Boosters are for the lazy people, especially The Gold Dragon Tears or whatever they are.

[Othin]

Seems like you get the Space-Time Gates at random, such as from the DLC chapters. At least, one of the villages in Marth's map was where I got my only one so far.

Divine Dragon Tears seem difficult to get. you get one from completing Mark's map, but is there a way to get more without spending more Fame than it would take to buy all the stat boosters separately?

[TheVinceKnight]

I've only seen Speedwings/Seraph Robe (or whatever it is) on a Merchant located at Chapter 25. That and Hammerne. God damn 1 use Hammernes.

[Othin]

I've seen them elsewhere. Right now on my HM file there's a Merchant at Ch8 with a Secret Book, and on my NM file there's one at Ch16 with a Levin Sword and Speedwings. Think I'll buy those last two, now that I notice it.

I've also seen them carrying Hammerne elsewhere, but not at the moment.

[LegendaryHero0]

That it is. You can also get more through Fame points, although some are really expensive.

I think it's easier to just use Change Seals, though. You can buy them freely from Ch16 on for the same price as a stat booster, and get up to 20 more levels to gain stats with.

I feel like they're making this game far more user-friendly. You don't have to use RNG abuse to cap out stats anymore...

I guess, going in the opposite direction, that's a feature that I support the inclusion of, haha.

[Velth]

spending more Fame

You don't spend fame... you can get all those item in the list once in every file, fame doesn't go down when you take them, it just indicates up to what item you can get.

[NinjaMonkey]

This is all that I can think of for now...

Oppose:

- Removal of Light Magic

- Removal of the Anima Weapon Triangle.

- Removal of Affinities

- No Crossbows

- No Soldiers/Halberdiers

- No Third Tier Promotions

- Removal of BEXP system

- Removal of RD's guaranteed 1 stat increase upon level up system.

Support:

- Removal of Fog of War maps.

- Thieves using knives

Edited May 20, 2012 by NinjaMonkey

[LegendaryHero0]

Support:

- Removal of Fog of War maps.

Fire Emblem actually does Fog of War very.. poorly, from my experiences. At least, it does it in a way that's super disadvantageous to the player, and not at all to the computers.

In Advanced Wars, Fog of War is almost a good thing, because you can use it against even opposing computers, but in FE, coms are completely unhindered by it. It's as if it's not even there. They can attack if they run into you, they know exactly where you're at, even if you're covered in fog (by either simply not having fog on their side, of having a much larger fog radius). Also, when you uncover fog, it doesn't stay uncovered, which limits scouting possibilities.

The result causes you to play in a super defensive way that's just kind of obnoxious, where as in Advanced Wars, you can scout and bomb from a distance, and focus on indirect units a lot more.

They really just need to change Fog of War, imho.

[Anouleth]

Fire Emblem actually does Fog of War very.. poorly, from my experiences. At least, it does it in a way that's super disadvantageous to the player, and not at all to the computers.

In Advanced Wars, Fog of War is almost a good thing, because you can use it against even opposing computers,

Ok, you don't understand how AW AI works, because the computer AI will ignore fog of war for all units except those in reefs and forests.

but in FE, coms are completely unhindered by it. It's as if it's not even there. They can attack if they run into you, they know exactly where you're at, even if you're covered in fog (by either simply not having fog on their side, of having a much larger fog radius). Also, when you uncover fog, it doesn't stay uncovered, which limits scouting possibilities.

The result causes you to play in a super defensive way that's just kind of obnoxious, where as in Advanced Wars, you can scout and bomb from a distance, and focus on indirect units a lot more.

But that happens in AW as well. Only AW4 fixed the "problems" with fog of war you describe.

They really just need to change Fog of War, imho.

Or better still, remove it.

[LegendaryHero0]

Ok, you don't understand how AW AI works, because the computer AI will ignore fog of war for all units except those in reefs and forests.

In FE, when a unit move's forward, let's say, 6 spaces, when you only have a vision of 3, and you encounter an enemy on the 4th or 5th space in, you'll be "surprised" and the options will end. The enemy does not have that same disadvantage in FE, as they either have a way higher fog sight than you, or simply have no fog at all. I don't know which, but in either case, you are put at a disadvantage, which makes Fog annoying.

But that happens in AW as well. Only AW4 fixed the "problems" with fog of war you describe.

I've only played Days of Ruin, so maybe that's true, but if the recent games in the series have changed that, wouldn't you attribute that to the series?

Even if it was only in one game (which it might be, i'm not an Advance Wars expert), then it's still totally irrelevant. The point is, that Fog is better done in that game.

I don't know why you're even nitpicking that useless point. It's irrelevant to the argument.

Or better still, remove it.

How is that better? You'd rather remove something altogether than fix it? What's the point?

[Saethori]

The exact Fog of War system in AW 1-3 is that the computer knows where all your units are at all times, but is unable to attack any unit that's out of its vision range. (However, the computer DOES know exactly where to move units to 'reveal' you to its other units.) In AW4, this was changed, so now the computer won't know where any of your units are unless they're in its vision range, or were in its vision range earlier that turn.

In FE, or at least all the ones that were localized, the computer simply does not obey Fog of War rules. It can advance several squares into fog it should know nothing about, stop at precisely short of one of your units, and launch an attack against that unit (a command no player would ever be able to do).

[LegendaryHero0]

The exact Fog of War system in AW 1-3 is that the computer knows where all your units are at all times, but is unable to attack any unit that's out of its vision range. (However, the computer DOES know exactly where to move units to 'reveal' you to its other units.) In AW4, this was changed, so now the computer won't know where any of your units are unless they're in its vision range, or were in its vision range earlier that turn.

In FE, or at least all the ones that were localized, the computer simply does not obey Fog of War rules. It can advance several squares into fog it should know nothing about, stop at precisely short of one of your units, and launch an attack against that unit (a command no player would ever be able to do).

That's actually exactly what I was talking about, haha.

Because when you encounter an enemy in Fog of War that was previously covered by fog, your unit will be "surprised" once it meets up with it, and won't be able to move. Enemy's don't have the hindrance, and can approach and attack you regardless.

It'd be nice if FE revamped the system and kept it in. I feel it allows for more diverse strategies..

[Sniper Sirius]

Does anyone else miss HM bonuses?