Gaggle of Geese Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 and then you get to laugh as he... misses. Uh... Dalsin's skill growth is 40. He'll get plenty of hits, but with his abysmal speed, he won't be doubling much without the Sety scroll. I really, really hate those E ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Uh... Dalsin's skill growth is 40. He'll get plenty of hits, but with his abysmal speed, he won't be doubling much without the Sety scroll. I really, really hate those E ranks. 40% skill is ok, but what about 3 base + mono axes? No wonder he's a glorified Marty for his Manster use. Edited June 5, 2012 by Dio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 that said, anything physical that isn't effective will tink him, This isn't really true, either. Weapons are pretty damn strong in this game and Dalshin only has 12 base def with a 20% growth. I'm sure most enemies can muster far more than 12 atk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) Being the only armor you get for most of the game, he's very unique; no one else during that time will ever have a performance quite like his. it's funny if you read this as a backhanded compliment. 40% skill is ok, but what about 3 base + mono axes? Not to mention 0 luck. It says everything that he has the same base hit as Marty. Edited June 5, 2012 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) It is when you run out of Master Axes, Master Swords, and other awesome weapon types to give to units in the final chapter. Not a huge problem, but annoying none the less. When does that ever happen if you conserve well enough or mug enough people of them There's plenty of cool weapons to go around between all the free stuff you can grab off people and those shiny prfs. Galzus even brings you Master Sword, Master Axe, AND Flame Sword one or two chapters before endgame. What a bro. And hell, you don't even really need Master weapons on everyone. My first run of FE5 involved Fin with Killing Edge as a part of my endgame team. Edited June 5, 2012 by Fat Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 i don't think i've ever felt a need for an indoor lance user ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyl5_ Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Dalshin 4/10 He gets a 4 because his durability certainly helps out in one of the hardest parts of the entire game. However, he is typically not worth using longterm, his low MOV is horrible for Thracia 776, and he is ultimately outclassed by many units after the Manster fugitive chapters are done. + It seems like he exists only to help out in the Manster fugitive portion of the game. I cannot imagine how much more difficult that part of the game would be if he wasn't there to serve as an extra body at the very least. + He definitely has potential if you're willing to baby him. ± His base DEF is pretty good for an Armor. Conversely, His DEF growth is bad for an Armor. ± He can make use of Brighton's axe for awhile. Giving the 'Hero Axe' to Leaf/Rifis prior to Chpt 4 for Dalshin to use can be pretty handy for this part of the game. However, this possibly says more about the axe itself than the unit using it. - His low MOV is awful in a game with fairly large maps. - Once you get Othin, Finn, and Halvan back after Chapter 8, players typically much bench Dalshin indefinitely. Between these three units and Carion, who also joins immediately upon starting Chapter 9, why continue using Dalshin? - Lances aren't worth going out of your way for in this game due to the number of indoor chapters and the super limited number of indoor lance users, especially towards the end (the last 2.5 chapters are indoors even), so the Master Lance isn't that valuable. - A bit annoying to recruit since he is hostile and is positioned at a spot where you cannot recruit immediately -- and safely -- upon spawning him. - He's an Armor in a game where anti-Armor weapons are fairly common. Edited June 6, 2012 by zyl5_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Fin, Kein, Alva, Dean, Maybe Karin, Glade, Carrion, Fred, Conomore?, Amalda?, since they can all catch up, and won't require turtling. Amalda actually can't use lances. Battle axes are pretty good and there are a lot of them available in the Manster chapters, and Dalshin is the only one able to put them to use until ch...6 or so? (The first outdoor one is what I mean, obviously) I also like giving him the Brave Axe, a strategy already suggested in this topic. The weapon ranks some ppl have been discussing are pretty pointless...if you do promote him, I'm skeptical he'd be one of your first guys to promote, and it's 50 uses to get a rank, right? His move might not be as crippling during an indoor chapter (hey, he moves as well as Fergus, right?) but as will be pointed out always when talking about Dalshin, hammers are numerous in this game. I'd like to give him a bias point because he grew 2 move on my current playthrough (no rng-abuse bro!) and 8 move indoors is handy. And gave him sety scroll at times to repair his spd. But having +/- 1 bias seems kinda silly somehow. 4/10 because he's more useful than Tanya and less useful than Eyvel, no bias point. Too bad there's no command to have him temporarily (either for the ch or the turn, like a dismount) take off his armor for a move/spd bonus and a def loss and a conversion from "armored" to "foot" unit, so he didn't have to worry about hammers. i don't think i've ever felt a need for an indoor lance user ever You've never used an indoor horseslayer? You don't know what you're missing man, it's fucking fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Amalda actually can't use lances. She's still a better candidate for the Master Lance than Dalshin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 She's still a better candidate for the Master Lance than Dalshin. In the unlikely case that Dalshin got his Lance Rank to A, he would be the perfect and only candidate other then Xavier for the Master Lance in the Last two chapters and other indoor levels. This doesn't make Dalshin good, as promoting him and grinding his Lance Rank like crazy this requires far too much effort. Why didn't IS just alter the soldier sprite to make it a dismounted Lance Knight or give Xavier an A-rank in Lances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icon of Sin Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) In the unlikely case that Dalshin got his Lance Rank to A, he would be the perfect and only candidate other then Xavier for the Master Lance in the Last two chapters and other indoor levels. Why didn't IS just alter the soldier sprite to make it a dismounted Lance Knight or give Xavier an A-rank in Lances? Except most of the game is outdoors, which means lances already have plenty of use with the likes of Carrion, Glade and such. They probably felt like balancing the game a bit by giving an advantage to foot units. Besides, FE3 started the trend of dismounting for indoors where Social Knights and Paladins dismounted to sword wielding Knights. They didn't even have to bother with the rank thanks to the Weapon Level stat, which is a joke to raise even for the likes of Villuck. Edited June 7, 2012 by Dio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Why didn't IS just alter the soldier sprite to make it a dismounted Lance Knight or give Xavier an A-rank in Lances? -Cuz they didn't give a fuck about making sure you could use a master lance on the last 3 indoor chapters? -Cuz there are enough outdoor chapters for the master lances you get to be useful anyway? -Cuz dismounted lance knights can get an A in swords and use the master sword, cuz lance knights aren't soldiers at least in the sense of being of that class, and Xavier can use a master axe or a master bow? -Cuz there are good weapons in the game besides master weapons? But I grant that it'd be nice for the player to get 2 As for Xavier in ranks that Dalshin was lower in (i.e. not axes), assuming the player is using Dalshin and Xavier. Edited June 7, 2012 by Hawkeye Hank Hatfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You've never used an indoor horseslayer? You don't know what you're missing man, it's fucking fantastic. This sounds like the secret Horseslayer Sages in FE8 Chapter 16 that impede Mage Knight!Lute from trivializing the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) -Cuz dismounted lance knights can get an A in swords and use the master sword, cuz lance knights aren't soldiers at least in the sense of being of that class, and Xavier can use a master axe or a master bow? Lance Knights in this game are just inferior Cavaliers who can't use swords mounted. Cavaliers are just as capable of using A-rank Lances, so whats the point of using a Lance Knight when the Cavaliers can do anything they can do except better. Finn as awesome as he is, would be even better if he was a cavalier instead of a Lance Knight. Reusing class animations for the dismounted version is nothing new in Thracia 776. Dismounted Free Knights use Myrmidon graphics. Dismounted Forrest and Dragon Knights both use FE4 hero sprites. Reusing soldier sprites for dismounted Lance Knights worked great in Blume and Super Thracia hacks. -Cuz there are good weapons in the game besides master weapons? Good weapons like the Hero and Dragon Lance. Edited June 7, 2012 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Lance Knights in this game are just inferior Cavaliers who can't use swords mounted. Cavaliers are just as capable of using A-rank Lances, so whats the point of using a Lance Knight when the Cavaliers can do anything they can do except better. Finn as awesome as he is, would be even better if he was a cavalier instead of a Lance Knight. Reusing class animations for the dismounted version is nothing new in Thracia 776. Dismounted Free Knights use Myrmidon graphics. Dismounted Forrest and Dragon Knights both use FE4 hero sprites. Reusing soldier sprites for dismounted Lance Knights worked great in Blume and Super Thracia hacks. Good weapons like the Hero and Dragon Lance. Get it through your ****ing head already. THERE ISN'T A NEED FOR INDOOR LANCE USERS. It's merely a minor perk to use the master lance indoors. But, I'd rather have Deam with the Master Lance outdoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'd like it if Fin could use the Hero Lance inside regardless of how beneficial it might actually be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Lance Knights in this game are just inferior Cavaliers who can't use swords mounted. Cavaliers are just as capable of using A-rank Lances, so whats the point of using a Lance Knight when the Cavaliers can do anything they can do except better. Finn as awesome as he is, would be even better if he was a cavalier instead of a Lance Knight. Nothing to do with anything I said, your original point (that lances should be usable indoors), or with rating Dalshin. But to address your concern I agree that any lance knight would be better as a cavalier-->paladin. However, I like Finn better than any cavalier-->paladin (incidentally, I also like Felgus better than any cavalier--->paladin, even though he is locked only to swords), and he is rated by users in general here 9.06, which shows (to me) that this is not a very important idea or complaint. It's like...when rating PCs, consider a character on the whole, don't critique a character class independent of all the other things that make a character. The lance knight class may be slightly inferior to the cavalier...but lance knights in this game are better than cavaliers and paladins (not counting nanna and amalda). But your dismounted Finn pic IS awesome. And out of doors!!! What is he doing out there, he belongs in some tight corridor. Edited June 8, 2012 by Hawkeye Hank Hatfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Lance Knights in this game are just inferior Cavaliers who can't use swords mounted. Cavaliers are just as capable of using A-rank Lances, so whats the point of using a Lance Knight when the Cavaliers can do anything they can do except better. Finn as awesome as he is, would be even better if he was a cavalier instead of a Lance Knight. Reusing class animations for the dismounted version is nothing new in Thracia 776. Dismounted Free Knights use Myrmidon graphics. Dismounted Forrest and Dragon Knights both use FE4 hero sprites. Reusing soldier sprites for dismounted Lance Knights worked great in Blume and Super Thracia hacks. Good weapons like the Hero and Dragon Lance. Fin comes early, and is one of fe5s best units. Carrion is good, but he wants Elite sword, and has to be fed a few kills before he can fend for himself. Fred is just "ok" Haven't bothered with Conomoore yet. Amalda is also just "ok", along with GLade. Nanna is useful, but not really a combat unit. Kein and Alva are also merely just "ok" Therefore, Fin is the only exceptional member of the Lance->Duke knight line AND the Cav/Troub->Pally line. Also, why does it matter, since enemies in this game are weak as fuck, and we just want units with good MOVE, plus DURABILITY, and offense is so easy to fix here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Nothing to do with anything I said, your original point (that lances should be usable indoors), or with rating Dalshin. But to address your concern I agree that any lance knight would be better as a cavalier-->paladin. However, I like Finn better than any cavalier-->paladin (incidentally, I also like Felgus better than any cavalier--->paladin, even though he is locked only to swords), and he is rated by users in general here 9.06, which shows (to me) that this is not a very important idea or complaint. It's like...when rating PCs, consider a character on the whole, don't critique a character class independent of all the other things that make a character. The lance knight class may be slightly inferior to the cavalier...but lance knights in this game are better than cavaliers and paladins (not counting nanna and amalda). But your dismounted Finn pic IS awesome. And out of doors!!! What is he doing out there, he belongs in some tight corridor. Its from the FE5 Blume patch, you can get it on the site. I dismounted Fin, to get past some mountains. Stuff it adds: A confrontation with Blume Axe and Lance Knights can use their weapons dismounted Branched promotions via an unused promotion item Sucky characters are buffed in various creative ways. Marty steals, has better growths, and can promote to Berserker, Ronan is a Ballista Shooter, Dalsin has Charge and Great shield in addition to being able to use all weapons as the various Armor Knights were merged into one class. Leaf can eventually promote to Master Knight. Edited June 8, 2012 by Emperor Hardin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 2.5/10 I like him in a few Manster spots but other than that he's really useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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