ok i wanna know cuz im curious..

[Anouleth]

I never liked the way Shadow Dragon handled reclassing. Since certain classes are always favoured, it basically meant making a homogenous army of units with the best performance in that class. While the weapon ranks in FE13 aren't appealing and certain characters perform well only in their original class, I like the idea of level resets to give choices more weight. It also means you have less worrying about early promotion when you need the bases, but are given a chance to reclass later. If anything the game encourages early promotion.

Every game encourages early promotion, if you didn't notice. Well, except FE9, but that's a bit of a special case.

[Samias]

Maybe if you LTC, but the games have been fairly neutral either way. Now, with reclassing, skills, and level resets, there is a clear advantage to just diving into promotion immediately after getting class skills. For the obsessive compulsive who must have ALL the levels, I think this game alleviates the stress of "missing" something.

[BBM]

It's not just about LTC. It's that if you raise a full team, unless you arena/tower abuse, they are simply not getting to 20/20 (disregarding the games with BEXP). The most I've ever gotten a character to in one of the GBA games is 20/16, and that's with them being 5-6 levels above the rest of my team. There's simply no point forgoing the +1-3 stats, extra weapon ranks, and sometimes a mount, to stuff in a few unnecessary levels.

[Rewjeo]

I never liked the way Shadow Dragon handled reclassing. Since certain classes are always favoured, it basically meant making a homogenous army of units with the best performance in that class. While the weapon ranks in FE13 aren't appealing and certain characters perform well only in their original class, I like the idea of level resets to give choices more weight. It also means you have less worrying about early promotion when you need the bases, but are given a chance to reclass later. If anything the game encourages early promotion.

My armies tend to be pretty homogenous in FEs in general. In fact, they tend to be built around one or two very strong units with everyone else offering support, so that's not an issue for me. Also, I promote ASAP basically always.

now THIS is a debate i would watch on tv..i think the reason i like FE13's reclassing better is the skill system that just wouldnt work if it still used FE11-12's system. is my opinion on this. and you never know, when the game comes to america they may change a few class set options...cough(myrmidon for serge)

Yeah, FE13's skill system with FE11/12 reclass would be absurd. They could lock skill to class in that case, though.

[Lexington]

Seriously?

This debate is still going on?

You do realize you'll never get to an agreement, right?

And as none of the sides seem to at least accept the other's arguments/points of view, while still retaining their own point, this is pretty much headed nowhere but anger and frustration about the other person(s).

Haven't played FE 13 yet, but I think I will prefer it to 11/12, especially since I didn't like them at all (for quite a couple of reasons).

To make it clear, the 11/12 system does have some advantages that 13 doesn't have: You can reclass whenever you want, and to whatever you want (with the limitations of the sets male A and male B before unlocking it).

This of course avoids problems like "Why can't Serge become this, and Richt not that?"

The 13 system however takes the character itself into consideration.

Why can Minerva in FE 11/12 become a cleric? It really doesn't fit her personality.

In FE 13 she probably wouldn't have that option.

From what I heard the "whenever" isn't that much of a deal: You can get an unlimited amount of change seals and it shouldn't be that hard to achieve level 10 again once you are past a certain point in the game.

And before I talk about the "some characters are better than others anyway"-argument, let me please tell you, that I'm not a competitive player and never even touched a hard mode.

So most of my opinion will probably not count a darn thing for hard mode.

Personally I like using units that most people consider weak.

In FE 10 Meg and Fiona are among my favourite units. I love seeing them go from weaklings to capable fighters.

And this is also part of the beauty of FE 13 in my opinion.

Thanks to being able to get more than just a max of 40 levels, anyone can become pretty much amazing in any class you want them to be/they have access to.

Sure, it might take some grinding to make Tiamo a great Sorceress, but personally I don't mind.

Other people might think that it makes the game pretty boring, but that's their opinion and they are entitled to it.

There are no arguments I could use to convince them that it's not boring for them.

The limited reclass options also give the chance to try out different combinations for your children characters.

In my opinion it's not adding fake difficulty, but adding another strategic element.

The level resetting part is also an important part of 13's system, because of the skills.

Like other people already said, it just wouldn't work with the 11/12 system.

To conclude:

Both games have valid systems.

Some players will prefer the 11/12 system, some will prefer the 13 system.

IS will, in my opinion, keep leaning towards the 13 system in the future, because I don't think skills are going to disappear again and they seem to have put more effort into it.

You may now continue to hit each other over the head with chairs, tables and bottles.

Just don't hit the piano player in the corner.

[Othin]

And the practical ingame use in FE12 isn't constrained? Rody can reclass to Dark Mage and Mercenary if you're grinding or being cute or whatever, and that doesn't infringe on the niches of units such as Luke who have viable sword rank. It's true that it's less constrained than FE13,

But it does infringe on anyone with a viable lance rank, and he's just 15 fights away from infringing on anyone with a D rank or less, such as Luke, Gordin, Linde, Wrys, etc.

Well, I'm convinced.

I'm just saying, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

And in terms of practical use, Arran is not really a viable SM in many chapters because you need his Silver Lance and 10 move, while Luke cannot be a Dracoknight. How are Luke and Arran qualitatively different to Sol and Frederick?

I'm sure I could get through FE12 using Arran as a Swordmaster the whole time and do just fine. Similarly, I'm sure that once Luke promotes, I could use him just as well as a Dracoknight as a Paladin.

I don't think that anyone is denying that FE13 has more diversity among characters. However, FE12 still does have diversity, and from a practical point of view, reclassing is not unlimited.

It's limited only by WExp and physical/magical preferences. When that's the only thing limiting the classes that are such a huge part of diversity, that's not impressive.

You mean that you want to argue against the person that hasn't actually played FE12 and doesn't particularly like the class change system in it either.

Sure.

I think that having to start again from level 1 is also a constraining factor since it delays promotion.

The level reset falls under the "promotion" classification. Wouldn't mean much without it.

I haven't played FE13, so I couldn't say for sure, but I was led to believe that change proofs were fairly common.

They are.

[Titamon]

Cavalier!Richt may have some value if he is going the Dark knight route. It gives him an early chance to improve his sword rank with Discipline and Promotion to Great Knight gives him 100% HP/45% def growths and Luna as a skill

Archer is fairly pointless for him though.

[Othin]

Cavalier!Richt may have some value if he is going the Dark knight route. It gives him an early chance to improve his sword rank with Discipline and Promotion to Great Knight gives him 100% HP/45% def growths and Luna as a skill

Archer is fairly pointless for him though.

If Richt goes Cavalier, he's not going back to Dark Knight without grinding, absurd amounts of use, or a heavily delayed promotion while he returns to Mage again. Assume characters will use at most one Change Seal per run.

[Emperor Hardin]

If Richt goes Cavalier, he's not going back to Dark Knight without grinding, absurd amounts of use, or a heavily delayed promotion while he returns to Mage again. Assume characters will use at most one Change Seal per run.

With the exception of MyUnit right?

[Anouleth]

But it does infringe on anyone with a viable lance rank, and he's just 15 fights away from infringing on anyone with a D rank or less, such as Luke, Gordin, Linde, Wrys, etc.

You know, that was kind of the point of the entire reclass system in the first place. That if someone like Wrys died, you could still have staff users or whatever.

And in practical terms, there is absolutely no reason to train Luke in staves.

I'm just saying, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Except the choices in FE12 really do matter. If they didn't you could choose anything. Maybe that's true on lower difficulties, but not on higher ones.

I'm sure I could get through FE12 using Arran as a Swordmaster the whole time and do just fine.

Pretty sure you could get through FE8 with Sniper!Neimi too, but that doesn't mean it isn't a bad choice.

Similarly, I'm sure that once Luke promotes, I could use him just as well as a Dracoknight as a Paladin.

Yes, you could. It adds an extra dimension of strategy because in each chapter, you have to pick whether Luke will go with Dracoknight and Paladin (although realistically the choice is more between Paladin and Swordmaster and Hero since Luke will likely work on his sword rank)

It's limited only by WExp and physical/magical preferences. When that's the only thing limiting the classes that are such a huge part of diversity, that's not impressive.

Games don't exist to impress you, hard as that might be to believe.

Also, you're wrong when you say that classes are limited "only" by WEXP and physical/magical preferences. Why don't you try out Pirate!Draug and see how well he does (hint: Barbarians in prologue will OHKO him). Or Cavalier!Palla.

[arvilino]

Also, you're wrong when you say that classes are limited "only" by WEXP and physical/magical preferences. Why don't you try out Pirate!Draug and see how well he does (hint: Barbarians in prologue will OHKO him). Or Cavalier!Palla.

When she promotes though Palla(and Catria) can have have B/A in Lances, C in Bows, C in Swords(along with the Lady Sword). Paired with her high starting base stats and great growths(Her speed growth is a little low but her base makes up for it), upon promotion she can be more effective than most other characters in any physical class she chooses.

FE12's system does limit some characters, but there's very little to almost no constraint on the better characters especially if they start off with a high Lance or Axe Rank(only physical weapons that don't have a promoted class with a C in them).

In Lunatic and Lunatic Reverse, Palla, Catria and Sirius can go between General,Dracoknight,Paladin,Swordmaster,Horseman(Sirius)and Sniper whenever the situation called for me to have a bunch of those classes. Whereas like you said Draug's HP constraints him(His growth is low and he doesn't gain enough he can end up getting one shot in almost any class bu chapter 4).

Edited June 18, 2012 by arvilino

[Titamon]

If Richt goes Cavalier, he's not going back to Dark Knight without grinding, absurd amounts of use, or a heavily delayed promotion while he returns to Mage again. Assume characters will use at most one Change Seal per run.

Oh

Poor Richt

[Xeniferos]

Seriously?

This debate is still going on?

You do realize you'll never get to an agreement, right?

And as none of the sides seem to at least accept the other's arguments/points of view, while still retaining their own point, this is pretty much headed nowhere but anger and frustration about the other person(s).

Haven't played FE 13 yet, but I think I will prefer it to 11/12, especially since I didn't like them at all (for quite a couple of reasons).

To make it clear, the 11/12 system does have some advantages that 13 doesn't have: You can reclass whenever you want, and to whatever you want (with the limitations of the sets male A and male B before unlocking it).

This of course avoids problems like "Why can't Serge become this, and Richt not that?"

The 13 system however takes the character itself into consideration.

Why can Minerva in FE 11/12 become a cleric? It really doesn't fit her personality.

In FE 13 she probably wouldn't have that option.

From what I heard the "whenever" isn't that much of a deal: You can get an unlimited amount of change seals and it shouldn't be that hard to achieve level 10 again once you are past a certain point in the game.

And before I talk about the "some characters are better than others anyway"-argument, let me please tell you, that I'm not a competitive player and never even touched a hard mode.

So most of my opinion will probably not count a darn thing for hard mode.

Personally I like using units that most people consider weak.

In FE 10 Meg and Fiona are among my favourite units. I love seeing them go from weaklings to capable fighters.

And this is also part of the beauty of FE 13 in my opinion.

Thanks to being able to get more than just a max of 40 levels, anyone can become pretty much amazing in any class you want them to be/they have access to.

Sure, it might take some grinding to make Tiamo a great Sorceress, but personally I don't mind.

Other people might think that it makes the game pretty boring, but that's their opinion and they are entitled to it.

There are no arguments I could use to convince them that it's not boring for them.

The limited reclass options also give the chance to try out different combinations for your children characters.

In my opinion it's not adding fake difficulty, but adding another strategic element.

The level resetting part is also an important part of 13's system, because of the skills.

Like other people already said, it just wouldn't work with the 11/12 system.

To conclude:

Both games have valid systems.

Some players will prefer the 11/12 system, some will prefer the 13 system.

IS will, in my opinion, keep leaning towards the 13 system in the future, because I don't think skills are going to disappear again and they seem to have put more effort into it.

You may now continue to hit each other over the head with chairs, tables and bottles.

Just don't hit the piano player in the corner.

This more or less sums up how I feel about threads like this(Crossed out certain parts I can't really speak on, mostly since I haven't played FE11/12). I didn't realize that playing games based on who does what how well could cause people to get their panties in such a twist. It sounds a lot more about being elitist and less about enjoying the game, using units you like, and more about numbers. I honestly see it more as a personal challenge to use the less conventional units to achieve victory, especially on the harder difficulties. I don't really see things being impossible, no matter the odds (Yes, I know. Cliche). If some characters get OHKO'd in a scenario, find a way around it. Make it work.

Yes, certain units suck, whether it be because of growths, class choices, etc. At the end of the day, you don't have to use the character if you don't like them for whatever reason. I absolutely refuse to use a character I don't like just because they're better at something than a character I actually do like. Obviously this is my opinion, and I respect those who choose to do just that in said scenario. But it's like I've said before in another thread: It doesn't mean people who choose not to play this way play in an inferior way. I plan on using characters like Brady regardless of his proposed uselessness by the time you get him. Same for Basilio and Flavia. The fact is; I like them. I will put the extra effort into taking time to make sure they can hold their own.

So let's all agree to disagree on the validity of each of the reclass systems in question here? Respect each others playstyle and choices, mebbe? Good lord, I need to stop being such a hippie.