Higurashi Mafia - Game over

[Helios]

Oh yeah I'm part of this game too. I'll come up with a response in a sec let me just catch what I've missed.

[CT075]

First, I started some relevant discussion. No one else seemed to want to, and we have all of N0 to argue about something at least eventful, instead of waiting for D1 or N1, and glorious RVS involving D13 and pokemon.

no argument there except it's a day start

Second, yes. I expected about 2/3 not to even want to participate, and about 1/2 of them to present reasonable arguments. Perhaps everyone sees this as giving scum information as to who to target and who not to target.

Allow me to explain. First off, we are outnumbering a small team of mafia that can discuss with one another, and not eliminate themselves, while we frantically try to figure out who is what alignment and who is what role. The fact that mafia is targetting town is already a deficit that we have to climb out of. How do we do that, early on? With 0 relevant information to discuss while a small elite team gets the early jump on us? I'm all for winning here, and I'm not gonna sit with my thumb up my arse while waiting for a RVS lynch to occur. There are more sensical things to discuss, such as responses to my little game.

This looks like it'd be more successful in a game with some form of OC. Right now, we're just outing info to the mafia and any information we get would be only situationally useful regardless. I went along with it at first because i'm dumb but further thought (and a night of sleep) got me this -

Active Town PR says Active - risks NK

Town PR lies and says Passive - possibly deters NK but now opens up the possibility for being mislynched upon showing up on a Watcher report

Passive Town PR lies and says Active - unless you're a Bomb or something this is useless

Passive Town says Passive - okay i dunno what happens here

Scum says Active - The fact that it's true really only helps a tracker/watcher, and might even end up getting some misplaced town cred

Scum lying and saying Passive is probably the only scenario that helps the town since a tracker can prove this wrong if necessary.

Third, I think that this gives us a little edge on lategame. We have something concrete to fallback on when there are only say, 5 players left. That concrete that I refer to is what was said N0. When roles are eliminated through death or otherwise, we learn what is out of the game. That leaves us to have at least a little bit of a better chance to catch a potential liar mid game, when things happen and there is hardly anyone to take blame for it. It may not be as reliable as a claim or something, but it's better than nothing.

Well if someone slips up I kinda agree with you but not on D1, we're just giving the mafia a good idea on who to silence first (seeing as our own town pr's haven't had a chance to act yet)

Lastly, I'm seeing lots of activity now. And the point of my idea has come through. I realize it was kind of an odd way to go about getting RVS to take a hike, but let's think about what's been said in general.

well i agree that your general purpose has been fulfilled in a sense but all you've done is look scummy

## Unvote

## Vote Elieson

[Subieko]

Warning, giant post incoming.

Second off over reacting? Okay, So which one of my posts was me overreacting?

The very first one you quoted, actually. Elieson had three votes on him at the time and hadn't posted a defense yet; there was plenty of time for him to defend himself and get unvoted. And yet you sprang to his defense with a massive post almost immediately.

I also don't like that you and Bizz are saying that voting for someone because they are acting scummy is bad. If I think someone is acting scummy, then I'm going to vote them to put pressure on and get reactions.

Another problem with that post is that the whole thing reads as though you are 100% positive Elieson is Town. I think he seems somewhat Townish at this point, but nothing is certain.

Some of your other posts have problems too actually.

Albeit if we decide to lynch elieson and he flips scum I look bad

I don't like when people speculate how someone's flip will make them look bad. It looks like preemptive defense to me.

Throwing out a random vote during RVS is completely different from voting someone because they started discussion.

That wasn't BBM's reasoning though; he felt Elieson's infofishing was scummy. I feel like you're twisting BBM's post to make him look scummy here. Maybe it's actually you who's trying to push an easy mislynch?

Other stuff:

Is this really smart though <_<

Bizz--if you thought claiming active/passive was a bad idea, why did you claim passive?

I haven't read all the way through the thread yet, but Jesus, talk about a flimsy excuse for voting someone. I'm going to just be jumping all over reactions like this from now on

Reactions like voting for a dude who was acting scummy so as to get reactions from him? Yeah, okay.

Other thoughts: Kay currently has three posts in this game. First is a random vote on BBM, second is a vote on Rein with no reasoning provided, third is a complaint about Helios. Would like to see more thoughts.

oh, I'm still voting for cam.

let us remedy this!

##Unevict: cam

##elect: Elieson

That post was scummy as all hell.

This post came some time after like three posts from Rein saying that Elieson's post was scummy. This vote is REALLY delayed. In general I'm concerned about all the late votes on Elieson after he's defended himself (and done so pretty well in my opinion).

Helios is apparently about to post something, so I think I'll ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori. I think you overreacted more than BBM (and as far as I recall you don't usually overreact so much, unlike BBM).

I gotta go DM for my D&D group now, so this is my last post for tonight probably.

[Helios]

Ok, home from work. Read up on what my popcorn post (that I did in the parking lot before entering worth) wd followed by. I must say, I'm a bit surprised, and a bit not.

First, I started some relevant discussion. No one else seemed to want to, and we have all of N0 to argue about something at least eventful, instead of waiting for D1 or N1, and glorious RVS involving D13 and pokemon.

Second, yes. I expected about 2/3 not to even want to participate, and about 1/2 of them to present reasonable arguments. Perhaps everyone sees this as giving scum information as to who to target and who not to target.

Allow me to explain. First off, we are outnumbering a small team of mafia that can discuss with one another, and not eliminate themselves, while we frantically try to figure out who is what alignment and who is what role. The fact that mafia is targetting town is already a deficit that we have to climb out of. How do we do that, early on? With 0 relevant information to discuss while a small elite team gets the early jump on us? I'm all for winning here, and I'm not gonna sit with my thumb up my arse while waiting for a RVS lynch to occur. There are more sensical things to discuss, such as responses to my little game.

Lastly, I'm seeing lots of activity now. And the point of my idea has come through. I realize it was kind of an odd way to go about getting RVS to take a hike, but let's think about what's been said in general.

A couple of answers. Mostly non answers, and reasons not to, which I'm glad to see. I didn't expect as much discussion to be meta based, but heck at least we are getting somewhere. I'm still blurry with morning vision, so I'm gonna play catchup and try to comprehend what it is thst I missed.

TL;DR: Elieson wanted to start discussion in this game to skip the RVS "pleasantries" and get some super cereal discussion going. And to an extent it worked (though he should have expected the negative attention he would receive by doing something so unorthodox). I already stated my thoughts on this before and see no need to repeat myself and bore everyone.

Yes it is, the title of Cutest Legendary is of life and death importance even though it's actually Victini

Jirachi has always been my favorite pokemon since it came to exist, so it's always the best in my eyes .

##Unvote, ##Vote: Helios

You've gone well past vote-hopping into some kind of vote explosion. And you're unvoting people after they make a single post, regardless of what it adds to the discussion. What the heck are you doing?

Like we said before, it's called trying to get a reaction.Pressure votes pressure voters, and if you want to get people to talk sometimes you gotta give em a little nudge like that. It just so happened that I voted for someone right before they would make a post so I'd change my vote. I got what I wanted out of them, a response, and since I didn't find them all that scummy and there wasn't much to work with at the time I had to try again with someone else. That's basically it.

I actually sort of agree with this, and I'm really liking this reaction more than anything else. HOWEVER: Claiming things such as "I'm not giving info out about my role because it'll help scum more than town is pretty counter-productive if your intention was to not give info out about your role anyway, since... that's just what you did. /: Watch out for that, guys! I see this a lot, and scum can get more out of this than some people realize, I think.

As for character-claiming, this argument happens often and I'm not really certain that we should be doing it. I know that you only said that you're curious, but if you were wary about giving information out anyway, I'd keep characters secret for now--at least since it's still early in the game.

I think you read farther into it than I intended to make it sound. If I give out info about my role that make it sound like my role is complete shit or even a vanilla, that's still giving out info. Even the way Paper always claims mayor as a joke at the beginning of each game basically lets you assume that he is NOT the mayor, and even as a joke that gives out info to mafia. That's all I meant by that statement, but looking back now I can see why you would read it as something like that. Besides I could be a lying which is always a possibility in Mafia.

No, I don't want a lynch on him either. His reaction to the votes on him made him look more Townish to me, and his reasoning for asking about roles (to start discussion based on reactions to the question) was good even though I still feel that outing that info is bad.

Right now I'm wary of Helios and want him to get back in here and post. If he has time for Carnival Phastasm he has time for one lil' post in here.

And basically my answer to that is here:

To be fair, CPM is in a much more critical phase than this game is.

So I see while I've been away people are currently on #TeamShinori or #TeamBBM for the most part (yes I just used twitter hashtags bite me) and I'm not sure what I think about it right now. Usually these little debacles this early in the game are intownfights that lead to the first mislynch of the game based on my short time playing this game. Scummy scum scum tend to be a bit quieter and try to go more unnoticed this early in the game.

##Unvote

I'll decide what to do with my vote later when I feel like thinking more.

[Shinori]

I'm known to look scummy day 1 all the time though. Side note, when did I state "Voting someone because they are scummy is a bad idea." ? I didn't. Voting someone because they are scummy is good and gets a reaction, I just didn't see Elie as scummy. Also a huge post that was a whopping 2 and half paragraphs in length, sorry didn't know that was large by any standards I mean, it only took me a whopping 2-3 minutes to type, and that was with my thinkin' cap on.

I still really don't get how a whopping 2 and half paragraphs is overreacting, considering I didn't most anymore on the issue so that the votes on elieson would still have the pressure that people wanted. I posted my thoughts on the situation and left it there. If I had overreacted then I would have called our other people on being scum, but no I said I thought BBM was really scummy with that to me, and that the rest of the people seemed scummy enough to keep my eye on.

[BBM]

No, my vote wasn't an OMGUS at all. I made a vote when someone did something I thought was suspicious, less than halfway into the first phase of the game. There was plenty of time for Elieson to defend himself, and plenty of time for me to move my vote. Yet you make a huge post about me being scummy, the logic of which was that I voted for someone you thought was town. But no one is confirmed town enough less than halfway into the first phase of the game that you can say anyone who votes for them is auto-scum.

Also screw you guys I don't overreact.

[BBM]

I still really don't get how a whopping 2 and half paragraphs is overreacting, considering I didn't most anymore on the issue so that the votes on elieson would still have the pressure that people wanted. I posted my thoughts on the situation and left it there. If I had overreacted then I would have called our other people on being scum, but no I said I thought BBM was really scummy with that to me, and that the rest of the people seemed scummy enough to keep my eye on.

So basically, everyone who disagreed with you about Elieson's action?

[Shinori]

Well, I'm gonna do something I get yelled at for a lot but whatever, I don't quite care if mafia know my role.

I'm town kidnapper.

[Shinori]

And no marth, 2 other people is not everyone.

[CT075]

actually now that I think about it elieson is just drawing all the mafia's fire by declaring that he himself is active and therefore a possible power role

so he either overlooked that fact or he knows he has nothing to fear.

hm...

[BBM]

Kidnapper, eh? Hmm... that's traditionally a mafia role, but IIRC Bizz was a Town Kidnapper or something similar in Schoolgirl Mafia. I don't know... >_> When does this phase end EST? Tomorrow 5 AM?

[Rapier]

Warning, giant post incoming.

The very first one you quoted, actually. Elieson had three votes on him at the time and hadn't posted a defense yet; there was plenty of time for him to defend himself and get unvoted. And yet you sprang to his defense with a massive post almost immediately.

That exageration makes me VERY unsettled.

I also don't like that you and Bizz are saying that voting for someone because they are acting scummy is bad. If I think someone is acting scummy, then I'm going to vote them to put pressure on and get reactions.

When did they say that?

Another problem with that post is that the whole thing reads as though you are 100% positive Elieson is Town. I think he seems somewhat Townish at this point, but nothing is certain.

Are you kidding? If he seems Townish, then why were you voting him?

That wasn't BBM's reasoning though; he felt Elieson's infofishing was scummy. I feel like you're twisting BBM's post to make him look scummy here. Maybe it's actually you who's trying to push an easy mislynch?

An easy mislynch on a player who's got 0 votes and doesn't look so scummy, seriously? Also, how do you know it's a mislynch?

I'm having a hard time deciding who's the best vote candidate, from BBM and Subieko. I guess I'll hang with BBM because, if he flips scum, I'm certain some players will look clearer than others, and some will look worse than others, and it will reveal us more.

[BBM]

Side note whenever Elie is scum he tends to ask if what he says in thread is okay to say in thread, especially if it has any importance to it, such as that post, which is especially why I don't think he's scum, his scum buddies would have told him not to say that.

This is what Shinori posted. Paraphrased, it means "Scum!Elieson asks his teammates before posting anything important, so scum!Elieson would not have posted that." This actually implies that the post that Elieson made was scummy, because if that post was great and townie, why would any theoretical scum buddies have stopped him from posting it?

[Percivalé]

Bizz--if you thought claiming active/passive was a bad idea, why did you claim passive?

:o)

I also like how you're putting words in my mouth.

[Percivalé]

Reactions like voting for a dude who was acting scummy so as to get reactions from him? Yeah, okay.

For the record, that's not why I voted for you, and you're only making yourself look worse by assuming it.

[Rapier]

No, my vote wasn't an OMGUS at all. I made a vote when someone did something I thought was suspicious, less than halfway into the first phase of the game. There was plenty of time for Elieson to defend himself, and plenty of time for me to move my vote. Yet you make a huge post about me being scummy, the logic of which was that I voted for someone you thought was town. But no one is confirmed town enough less than halfway into the first phase of the game that you can say anyone who votes for them is auto-scum.

Also screw you guys I don't overreact.

If that's not an overreaction, I don't know what it is. Seriously. The last lines of your post were completely ignorant to the circunstances...

Dude, you're really lucky for being Mafia twice. But unlucky for being lynched twice on D1, lol.

For the record, that's not why I voted for you, and you're only making yourself look worse by assuming it.

Subieko's many assumptions also makes me unsettled. >:

[scorri]

Ok.

##unvote

My brain is kinda all over the place right now. Currently the people I'm finding scummy are BBM for overreacting and Subi for both defending BBM some and also seeming to put words in other people's mouths.

I'm going to trust my instinct here and ##Vote: Subieko

I'm going to try and come back and reread everything later, but I'm really not quite all here right now, so I dunno how that will end up going. Sorry I haven't been around much.

[Rapier]

This is what Shinori posted. Paraphrased, it means "Scum!Elieson asks his teammates before posting anything important, so scum!Elieson would not have posted that." This actually implies that the post that Elieson made was scummy, because if that post was great and townie, why would any theoretical scum buddies have stopped him from posting it?

That's just one of the reasons he listed as why he thought Elie wasn't scum. He didn't say it was the reason he thought Elie wasn't scum. Come on...

[Shinori]

Dude, you're really lucky for being Mafia twice. But unlucky for being lynched twice on D1, lol.

He himself never actually said he was mafia, I'm just going with the fact that I think he is mafia, why does this sentence sound as if you know what he is?

[Bluedoom]

##Unvote

##Vote: Subieko

GG, put words in others' mouths.

Also I'd rather not have Elieson lynched. Not just yet anyway. Same with Shinori. especially after that claim. BBM's fair game though.

[BBM]

How the hell is voting for someone who does something I find scummy overreacting? I keep asking that, and people just keep saying, lol you're overreacting. Explain to me, seriously. Or is my attitude now what you're saying is an overreaction?

That's just one of the reasons he listed as why he thought Elie wasn't scum. He didn't say it was the reason he thought Elie wasn't scum. Come on...

These are Shinori's reasons for thinking Elieson is town: 1) he attempted to start discussion, and 2) meta states that scum!Elieson wouldn't make that post. To 1), I responded that not all discussion is beneficial to the town, and the discussion that Elieson attempted to spark definitely was not. However, I recognized that Elieson's motives might not have been scummy, so I removed the vote. 2) is what you are saying is only "one of the reasons". It is half of Shinori's argument.

Dude, you're really lucky for being Mafia twice. But unlucky for being lynched twice on D1, lol.

wtf is this? Kindly do not assume that I am mafia before I even flip, and kindly do not assume that I am getting lynched this phase when there are what, two or three votes on me?

[CT075]

itt: subieko pretends people say things they actually haven't

## Unvote

## Hack Subieko

[CT075]

err pretend those were bolded i almost died editing

[Rapier]

Unvote

##Vote: Subieko

I'm fine with either lynch, tbh. And Subi's seems to be the most likely one.

[BBM]

Also, although I'm not really sure of Subieko, I don't like how quickly this bandwagon is building on her.