Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Shinori]

Your piplup claim seems scuummy to me, you magically evolved night 1 and got an active ability supposedly. I'm fine with the fact that you claimed and all previously but you didn't claim what your ability changed on N1 and you did cut parts out of your original role pm it seems.

Minor error thing.

[Strawman]

Huh, Iris's role is strange. Think about that if it was mafia. Basically she could pick any role she knew about from the town and give it to a mafia member. I have no idea if that would be good or not, but it sounds like it would be pretty decent.

I currently wouldn't mind lynching Blitz. My plan was to come in here right at phase start and vote him but I fell asleep and then Prims beat me to it.

Actually, I can't move anyone to anywhere. I got this overnight:

Possibly an aftereffect of Strawman's ability?

Yeah, probably should have told you about that but I didn't really want to claim everything about my role without having to.

##Vote: Elieson

Huh, if you have a role that makes it where your target has to choose their stage in the thread why is this the first we've seen of it. Also, sounds kinda mafia-stage-control-ish to me (along with subieko's role). It seems to me like the mafia gets more out of learning stages and controlling stages than the majority of town roles would.

[Elieson]

I idled on n1, because I didn't want to get anyone set up to be NK'd. I targeted iris because I think she's scummy as hell, and think we should try to avoid her, to prevent her from screwing around with our roles. The last thing we need is to have a potential doc and scum role switch roles, just to f* with us.

If scorri were alive, then iris couldve switched scorris role with another scum, allowing them to stagehop/kill, thereby confusing us even more. Thankfully, scorri is dead, but there are still easy ways to screw with town.

I really hate this role. It's like the most scummy town role I could have, (other than town kidnapper from Higurashi), and I really would rather idle with it. However, if I'm confident that someone is scum, I'm gonna try to single then out so they can't mess with us any more than they already have.

[eclipse]

Well, hey, that vote was on the one guy that was in the same stage as Excellen. Who died. How does that translate into failing to read the night update?

Cut it out, Proto. What you're doing isn't helping. Quote scorri's role for me, and start scumhunting.

Also, I'm not sure if Eclipse's idea of throwing everyone on the same stage near endgame will really work. Look at the stages- Battleship Halberd says it keeps people moving. That gives me the feeling that it forcibly moves you if you're on it for too long. Castle Siege says that something might be lurking underneath, giving me the feeling that something bad might happen to people who're there later on. Fountain of Dreams is okay, but will soon be unavailable. Mushroom Kingdom will roleblock us if we're there for too long. The poisonous gases on Brinstar could screw things up. So I'm pretty sure that the stages were designed exactly to counteract against this kind of strategy.

Source. Nothing stops the town from migrating stages (though Brinstar looks terrible, IMO).

Thanks for the info, Subi! For those of us getting weird results, do you think it could be stage-related?

One more thing- can we stop discussing the exact details of the role of the Vig, someone whom we know is town, and get back to looking for scum? There are quite a couple people in Blitz's wagon atm. However, Blitz seems to be pretty certain that he can respond in an effective manner to most of the points against him once he hears from Shinori. But Blitz won't be able to post for more than 24 hours, meaning if he comes back and can indeed prove his innocence, most of us will have wasted more than half the day on someone who isn't town. So to the people on the Blitz wagon, whose lynch would you currently support after Blitz's? It's Marth for me.

I seriously do NOT like this post. Maybe we're looking at a cross-stage vig, or maybe we're looking at what happens when you stay on Castle Siege for too long? Check Bizz/scorri's stage selection. Please stop the OMGUSing, it's getting painful. I get the feeling that Blitz is intentionally holding up the day phase (as he's one of the suspects coming into D3), and that doesn't sit well with me. I'd be voting multiple people for the following reasons:

BBM - see above, and guess who asked about the vig, first?

Blitz - pushing people to claim, then dodging questions when they're thrown his way. Also, D2 watcher lynch. Proto has the right idea.

Manix - D1 pushiness, followed by D2 watcher lynch, followed by this (if Proto's mafia, I'm sure he'll answer with a resounding YES I DID LOL ).

Marth - intentional scumminess D1, which still makes me feel weird, and will probably do so all game.

Elieson/StSS get a pass for the Bananas vote because neither was around to see Banana's claim (Strawman, please stop voting Elieson, he's telling the truth). Shinori also gets a pass because he voted to save his own skin (not that it's NOT scummy, but his reasoning wasn't to eliminate the watcher on principle). Now that everyone's started talking, and I can't vote for multiple people. . .

If anyone else besides me wants to volunteer as a target for Elie's role, do say so. I'd prefer it if I were targeted when Subi can use her stage-switch thing; it takes care of two questionable roles in one fell swoop.

##Vote: Manix Why did you insist on a watcher lynch, of all things?

[Tables]

Okay sorry for the delay, honestly, I still haven't caught up yet, got basically no idea what's going on. Didn't change Folgore's track order, which was on Scorri, and got a no result. Or more precisely, I 'lost track' of him. I'm gonna guess that my Tracking fails if people move between stages (Was Diagoji on a different stage to Scorri?)

Honestly, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to reread everything... I might just read from like page 20 and see what I learn.

[Strawman]

Uh, Eclipse I'm confused. Telling the truth about his role doesn't mean he's town.

[Prims]

I don't think we should be pursuing BBM today. At all.

[Subieko]

I thought the same with Subieko, since mafia knew of my open D1 suspicion of her, and probably tried to frame anyone on that stage, hmm.

Now that I think about this, isn't there an obvious problem with this theory? Scum didn't know who would be on each stage when they themselves made their stage picks. So unless you think all the scum piled on one stage, which seems unlikely, it seems more likely that they picked a stage not to visit and then chose the kill target from whoever went to that stage. They didn't know Proto or I would be on Fountain of Dreams, so they couldn't have set up any framing in advance. My guess is that they just wanted to sow confusion by killing someone on a stage with no scum, regardless of which Townies were actually on it.

FMPOV, I don't think it was really waffling, I pointed out that I screwed something up, but I also pointed out that Shinori was scummy.

But why did you start talking about it N1? Your role would swap things on N2, so there was no need to bring it until you knew whether or not Shinori had managed to prove his role.

Nope. I used it N1 since I distrusted Shinori, and it's probably best not to swap other people's roles for no reason.

What made you choose Blitz as your other target, rather than Marth?

For those of us getting weird results, do you think it could be stage-related?

I suspect at least some are, simply because if the stages had no effects then there wouldn't be much point to them. So for the simple reason that they are a major part of this game's design, I assume they do stuff.

If anyone else besides me wants to volunteer as a target for Elie's role, do say so. I'd prefer it if I were targeted when Subi can use her stage-switch thing; it takes care of two questionable roles in one fell swoop.

If you're worried about our roles, we could just idle? It would be pretty obvious if either of us didn't idle--Elie's role makes the person post in-thread, hard to miss that, and someone would report the effect of my role--so it's not like we could hide our role use now that we've claimed. I guess it's not clear to me why you feel we MUST use our roles at all.

I think BBM may be Town--during her list posts, Scorri put BBM as a Town read, with the reason being that he defended her against Prims. Now, if they were scumbuddies it would be foolish to point out their own buddying so obviously. This makes me suspect Scorri was trying to associate herself with BBM so that if she flipped, he'd look worse.

@BBM: oh yeah, Blitz is going to be gone until Friday, isn't he? Well I suppose my vote isn't doing much right now then.

Aside from Blitz, I still want to lynch Iris. She's still not really scumhunting and I stand by what I've already said about her D1 and D2 play.

##Unvote

##Vote: Iris

[Kaoz]

Votals

[2] Blitz: Prims, BBM, Shinori, Subieko

[2] Iris: Elieson, Subieko

[1] Proto: Proto

[1] BBM: Marth

[1] Marth: Shinori

[1] Elieson: Strawman

[1] Manix: eclipse

Voteless: Iris, Serious Bananas, Cap'n Flint, Tableskitty, Psych, Manix

Phase ends in 58 hours and 24 minutes. Remember to choose a stage for the night.

[Psych]

Fuck you whoever did that. I targeted Prims, and was looking forward to talking to him!

Again, yeah, I think that was affected by the stage

Still need a sub for Psych.

I think I might actually be able to keep up though. We'll see. So far, so good.

One more thing- can we stop discussing the exact details of the role of the Vig, someone whom we know is town, and get back to looking for scum? There are quite a couple people in Blitz's wagon atm. However, Blitz seems to be pretty certain that he can respond in an effective manner to most of the points against him once he hears from Shinori. But Blitz won't be able to post for more than 24 hours, meaning if he comes back and can indeed prove his innocence, most of us will have wasted more than half the day on someone who isn't town. So to the people on the Blitz wagon, whose lynch would you currently support after Blitz's? It's Marth for me.

I think after Blitz, either Shinori, or potentially Iris or Marth could be good targets.

Proto is also acting weird, but I think I know what it's about.

##Vote Blitz because yeah, horrible scum, filthy scum

Also last night I finally evolved into Venusaur. My role seems exactly the same, but in the area my night action would go, it just says I am ready to fight. I think that if me or another pokemon are on the same stage something might happen, but also my flavor mentions my knowing Solar Beam, so I'm going to keep going to Mushroom kingdom, and see if I can get any powers from the sun or something.

also prims tell me how awesom ei am

[Tables]

This is probably going to be a recurring theme, but I honestly have basically no idea what's going on. Still. I don't want to reread almost 1,300 posts of stuff... it's just, ugh. I'll try and contribute as much as I can, but I probably won't vote today and I'll probably spend most of the day pointing out various random things I observe. It's about as much as I think I can do.

Like, there's a Watcher that can become a Tracker on one stage? Okay, seems believable to me. It's a lot more limited to me. Which stage is it? I should probably check if I've been there etc.

[Grace]

##Vote: Manix Why did you insist on a watcher lynch, of all things?

Because I thought he was scummy D1 and D2, for not really contributing and jumping to assumptions. I also thought there was the possibility of scum!watcher. Now that scorri has flipped, and she just sheeped that wagon pretty hard, it looks like SB is probably just noob!town now, so now I don't want to lynch him.

Needed to address this first, will rescan thread to find other stuff. I did just wake up, so

[Bluedoom]

Oh right, this is what I got mixed up and I'm assuming this is pretty much what blitz is yelling at me about. I thought he was the person who claimed ivysaur. Seeing as how Marth did target prims last night I do wonder what he did since our town role cop is dead and most of our other claimed PR's are not him. Currently out of all the pokemon claims I see Marth as the most scummy, besides Iris.

I really do not like iris's role. It's a role swapper for a night but it's also a ninja about it. Really seems more scum beneficial to me, you would have to ask the other player in thread what their ability was to get anything, it's an ability that seems fully advantageous to mafia and horrible for town.

All of this being said ##Unvote:

##Vote: Marth

Your piplup claim seems scuummy to me, you magically evolved night 1 and got an active ability supposedly. I'm fine with the fact that you claimed and all previously and you didn't claim what your ability changed on N1 and you did cut parts out of your original role pm it seems.

The other two pokemon claims, that matter in this situation, said: you have no abilities and then posted some sort of 'goal' after that which they were attempting to complete, yet you chose not to link that part about your piplup role pm and told us to figure it out ourselves at how you got a role upgrade. Was it really that bad to just link how you got a role upgrade? It doesn't tell you what the role upgrade is by any means. Now not to mention you targeted Prims tonight and most of our other PR's are already claimed on someone else which really doesn't leave you with that much, and prims himself said he no sort of flavor at all from your visit which means you aren't something like a roleblocker, assuming Prims has an active ability.

Unfortunately Bananas has blown my cover that I tried to hide my role well. Yes it was a bad diea for me to tell how I got a role upgrade, because my role would've been obvious.

Ok, a hint: You guys went all gung-ho and killed Kay, who was King Dedede, Town Rolecop. Now it should be easy to guess my role.

[Grace]

wrt to possible Iris wagon: stop that

Iris' role can help us to weed out fakeclaims, by forcing invalid actions (ie: the fakeclaimed action) to prove roles. Why the hell to you think that it's a scummy role? It doesn't block the doc/cop/whatever, it just requires someone else to take the action instead. Would not lynch Iris at all.

I really do not like iris's role. It's a role swapper for a night but it's also a ninja about it. Really seems more scum beneficial to me, you would have to ask the other player in thread what their ability was to get anything, it's an ability that seems fully advantageous to mafia and horrible for town.

Given the number of people who have claimed so far (far too many for my liking), we can prove fakeclaims of the people who have claimed. I still don't see the problem here.

I can try to elaborate on this point if it's too confusing, just for note.

Yeah, probably should have told you about that but I didn't really want to claim everything about my role without having to.

Valid point. That's interesting though. We will have to keep that in mind when throwing it about, I suppose.

Agreeing with this post.

And that's about it.

[Grace]

Okay sorry for the delay, honestly, I still haven't caught up yet, got basically no idea what's going on. Didn't change Folgore's track order, which was on Scorri, and got a no result. Or more precisely, I 'lost track' of him. I'm gonna guess that my Tracking fails if people move between stages (Was Diagoji on a different stage to Scorri?)

Actually, I missed something. Proto: STOP selfvoting, thnx.

Unless you have a reason to disbelieve the tracker claim, don't vote Proto, kthnx

Although, on that note: I still feel we have too many investigative roles, but ehhh

[Kriemhild]

Castle Seige's description says there might be 'something below', doesn't it? Maybe if you stay there too long bad things happen?

Better explanation: If you stay in Castle Siege for a while, you'll be transported indoors. scorri was there twice in a row, went indoors, tried to High Jump, and bumped her head.

Like, there's a Watcher that can become a Tracker on one stage? Okay, seems believable to me. It's a lot more limited to me. Which stage is it? I should probably check if I've been there etc.

Watcher becomes Tracker+Watcher, gets both results. It was on Mushroomy Kingdom, but we don't know how exactly it happened, but it was likely due to the stage itself.

Actually, would it make sense for every player to have one single stage where their abilities get modified? The flavor for SB's ability to see both results seemed to be specifically referring SB, and it wouldn't even fit the Tracker. I wouldn't be surprised if there's special flavor prepared for every single character in the game, but are reserved for players visiting a specific stage. Shinori on Brinstar might be one of them as well.

[BBM]

Source. Nothing stops the town from migrating stages (though Brinstar looks terrible, IMO).

Nothing's stopping the town from all being on one stage, I'm just saying that it's a bad idea. Other than Fountain of Dreams (which will probably be unavailable after tonight), they all seem to have negative effects. Brinstar screwed up Shinori's role, Mushroomy Kingdom roleblocked you after you were there for too long, Battleship Halberd gives me the feeling that you can't stay on it for too long, and Castle Siege also has a "hidden terror". And look at Excellen's role- it wiped out stage effects for a cycle. If the evidence we already have isn't enough to tell us that the stages can have negative effects, that definitely implies it. And if something bad happens on all of the stages, I think it's unwise for the whole town to gather up one one of them. You might say that if everyone is one only one stage, it increases the chance that nothing bad will happen to anyone, but it also increases the chance that something bad will happen to everyone.

I seriously do NOT like this post. Maybe we're looking at a cross-stage vig, or maybe we're looking at what happens when you stay on Castle Siege for too long? Check Bizz/scorri's stage selection. Please stop the OMGUSing, it's getting painful. I get the feeling that Blitz is intentionally holding up the day phase (as he's one of the suspects coming into D3), and that doesn't sit well with me. I'd be voting multiple people for the following reasons:

BBM - see above, and guess who asked about the vig, first?

Blitz - pushing people to claim, then dodging questions when they're thrown his way. Also, D2 watcher lynch. Proto has the right idea.

Manix - D1 pushiness, followed by D2 watcher lynch, followed by this (if Proto's mafia, I'm sure he'll answer with a resounding YES I DID LOL ).

Marth - intentional scumminess D1, which still makes me feel weird, and will probably do so all game.

I'll admit, I can have a bad habit of OMGUSing at times, but if OMGUS votes are defined only as voting for the person who finds you scummy, without taking into account reasoning for the vote, then they are justifiable in many cases, this being one of them. If you remember, I said that I didn't like Marth's bit of unnecessarily buddying up to me in D1 by saying that we saw eye-to-eye on so many things, and that was when he was buddying up to me, not when he was voting for me. And the logic in his vote for me right now is just really bad IMO. He's basically calling me scummy for not wanting a no-lynch, and not starting a new wagon that would have done nothing. Also, is it the whole post you dislike? Because you're sort of going along with the latter part where you list more people whom you find scummy. And okay, even if Scorri was killed by the stage and not a Vig, talking about stages is still a way to get around actually scumhunting. And Eclipse, you've said things like this many times in other mafias, about paying less attention to flavour, even important flavour, or less attention to third parties, and more attention to scumhunting. Why are you now having a problem with me saying it?

Also, Marth, what's the point of this half-claiming breadcrumbing nonsense? If you feel that you've given enough information out that anyone can guess your role, claim fully so that we don't have to waste time doing it, or don't claim at all.

[BBM]

Actually, would it make sense for every player to have one single stage where their abilities get modified? The flavor for SB's ability to see both results seemed to be specifically referring SB, and it wouldn't even fit the Tracker. I wouldn't be surprised if there's special flavor prepared for every single character in the game, but are reserved for players visiting a specific stage. Shinori on Brinstar might be one of them as well.

I feel that if this was the case, SB's role PM would have had a hint about it, like "in some special weathers, you see more clearly".

[Shinori]

Read my role pm it does say that certain things may affect my ability. Idk.

[Prims]

Proto: are you persuaded?

Marth: why is Piplup a universal back-up? like, at all? i think there was more motivation for scum to find out what my role was last night

[Kriemhild]

Proto: are you persuaded?

I don't know about you, but Excellen's role PM certainly doesn't look like a Persuader's one to me.

Marth: why is Piplup a universal back-up? like, at all? i think there was more motivation for scum to find out what my role was last night

If Blues is willing to hint so much about his role, he should just post the full claim.

[Subieko]

I don't know about you, but Excellen's role PM certainly doesn't look like a Persuader's one to me.

This makes me think Proto's been Persuaded and can't say that he has been. Maybe he's forced to talk about Excellen too?

[Shinori]

Proto you tell me why you are self voting. Right now.

=|

I didn't say anything about this at first because I thought you were just trolling and I still think you are, however you could easily be mafia trolling us in some sort of situation just to confuse us. Either way it's stupid and tell us why you are voting yourself. IF you are unable to tell us why you are voting yourself post something how sexkay is on top. oftierlistsofcourse

[Iris]

^ Please keep things mostly on topic, kthx. (referring to that last sentence)

@Proto: Also Proto, if you can't say anything directly about whether you were persuaded, then quote this line If that's not the case, then don't quote this line.

If scorri were alive, then iris couldve switched scorris role with another scum, allowing them to stagehop/kill, thereby confusing us even more. Thankfully, scorri is dead, but there are still easy ways to screw with town.

I'm pretty sure the "The members of the mafia are organized enough to prevent their kill target from being changed though." was in reference to scorri's role. Of course you're going to say "oh you just added that in" or whatever, but at least I got something cleared up by the flip. Also, if you want to vote me mostly because of my role, please do real scum hunting while you're at it. Thanks. ;/ BTW, now that everyone knows your role, you could post your full role PM unless you're not feeling up to it.

Now that I think about this, isn't there an obvious problem with this theory? Scum didn't know who would be on each stage when they themselves made their stage picks. So unless you think all the scum piled on one stage, which seems unlikely, it seems more likely that they picked a stage not to visit and then chose the kill target from whoever went to that stage. They didn't know Proto or I would be on Fountain of Dreams, so they couldn't have set up any framing in advance. My guess is that they just wanted to sow confusion by killing someone on a stage with no scum, regardless of which Townies were actually on it.

I think you misinterpreted what I said, I think it's most likely they used scorri's ability on a stage with no scum, probably. Sorry for being unclear.

But why did you start talking about it N1? Your role would swap things on N2, so there was no need to bring it until you knew whether or not Shinori had managed to prove his role.

Can you link me to the exact post? But if I recall correctly, after I saw Shinori's claimed role PM, I asked Paperblade some questions and didn't really know how it would fit in with my role. I'm pretty sure that's why I was vague about it, and didn't claim until later.

What made you choose Blitz as your other target, rather than Marth?

There wasn't much of a difference between the two, really, but I think during that night, I trusted Blitz more than Marth.

Iris' role can help us to weed out fakeclaims, by forcing invalid actions (ie: the fakeclaimed action) to prove roles. Why the hell to you think that it's a scummy role? It doesn't block the doc/cop/whatever, it just requires someone else to take the action instead. Would not lynch Iris at all.

Given the number of people who have claimed so far (far too many for my liking), we can prove fakeclaims of the people who have claimed. I still don't see the problem here.

I can try to elaborate on this point if it's too confusing, just for note.

I thought about this too (like proving Tables' role, since his results have been kind of vague), obviously, but no one wants to be on the same stage as me. ):

Okay sorry for the delay, honestly, I still haven't caught up yet, got basically no idea what's going on. Didn't change Folgore's track order, which was on Scorri, and got a no result. Or more precisely, I 'lost track' of him. I'm gonna guess that my Tracking fails if people move between stages (Was Diagoji on a different stage to Scorri?)

Hm, Tables, can you post your flavor/quote of this? Thanks.

[Strawman]

Isn't universal backup suspected as a somewhat common mafia fake?

Eh, I don't feel too good about Marth's claim.