If you could rule/serve any country in Fire Emblem what would it be?

[Anacybele]

What about falling for Ludveck's obvious trap? I saw it coming from the beginning when Geoffrey decided to attack Ludveck's place. I could only think "*facepalm* Geoffrey, you're an idiot. Don't you see this mongrel is only luring you away?" Geoffrey even admitted to screwing up here. He's not a very powerful unit either, though that's really IS's fault.

Yeah, everyone makes mistakes. But Geoffrey just...makes too many. It's one reason I don't like him. But I'd be willing to help him improve. I'm not THAT stubborn.

But this starting to get a bit off topic, so let's end this here.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Anacybele

[Ein]

That's the spirit! Teach him to put his life on the line for his men, to lead from the front, to break enemy assaults with earthshattering charges, to lead by EXAMPLE.

Oh, wait.

also are you really being like "WELL I TOTALLY LOVE IKE BUT I WOULD /ACTUALLY/ GET A CRUSH ON THIS GUY BECAUSE ROMANCE WORKS THAT WAY"

i'm finding that hard to credit

Furrychin. You're taking this too seriously.

Besides, you'd be a terrible leader anyway. lololol

[Original Alear]

What about falling for Ludveck's obvious trap? I saw it coming from the beginning when Geoffrey decided to attack Ludveck's place. I could only think "*facepalm* Geoffrey, you're an idiot. Don't you see this mongrel is only luring you away?" Geoffrey even admitted to screwing up here. He's not a very powerful unit either, though that's really IS's fault.

Yeah, everyone makes mistakes. But Geoffrey just...makes too many. It's one reason I don't like him. But I'd be willing to help him improve. I'm not THAT stubborn.

But this starting to get a bit off topic, so let's end this here.

I don't entirely think talking about a country's leaders is really off-topic for something like this? If you don't feel like re'ing that's fine, but I'll still give my feedback. I would wanna reread the script before criticizing Jeffers's response to Ludveck, so maybe I'll do that later. But, I still think Furet's points about Jeffers's charisma and bravery are important points in his favor as a leader.

I also think Jeffers is a pretty good unit in both FE9 (for his join time) and FE10 (where it's too bad he didn't get better availability, but is still great in 2-3 and 3-9).

[Anacybele]

I don't entirely think talking about a country's leaders is really off-topic for something like this? If you don't feel like re'ing that's fine, but I'll still give my feedback. I would wanna reread the script before criticizing Jeffers's response to Ludveck, so maybe I'll do that later. But, I still think Furet's points about Jeffers's charisma and bravery are important points in his favor as a leader.

I also think Jeffers is a pretty good unit in both FE9 (for his join time) and FE10 (where it's too bad he didn't get better availability, but is still great in 2-3 and 3-9).

It doesn't matter what the script said. I still saw it coming. If I could, Geoffrey could have as well.

Hey, you're free to have your opinion. But I'm not saying Geoffrey is an absolute terrible leader. He does some things right. But compared to people like Ike and Zelgius? Geoffrey's a joke. They'd squish him like a bug in seconds. Those guys are real leaders. They're powerful, they know what risks to take and not to take, they make few mistakes, and even when they do make a mistake, they learn from it. Geoffrey didn't seem to have learned much or gotten much stronger at all in RD since PoR. Almost every other playable paladin/Gold Knight/Silver Knight outranks him in usefulness and stats (just check out the forum's tier lists), but as I said, that's really IS's fault. Geoffrey is especially useless in Path of Radiance. By the time you get him, Oscar should already be a much stronger lance and bow wielding Paladin (ALWAYS give Oscar bows because of the Three Brothers Triangle Attack), so who needs a weaker one? Plus Kieran should be more powerful as well.

And I find that these same knights still outrank Geoffrey in RD. Except Astrid, she kinda sucks there. But other than her, the Geoffster is still lagging behind. Maybe Geoffrey's just getting stat screwed somewhere once in awhile in my files. Who knows. But I still think he could use a big improvement on his leadership skills. And if I joined the knights, I'd help him with that. That's all I'm saying. It's my opinion, and anyone who doesn't like it: deal with it.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Anacybele

[ImperialSunlight]

Serve Hatari, because I want to know more about it and wolves are awesome.

That or rule Begnion, because size matters.

[Zak Something]

Freege. OBVIOUSLY.

[-Cynthia-]

See the chapter you rescue him, and the defeat of Crimea by Daien, and THE CAPTURE OF KIERAN A SUPER HIGH TIER UNIT; obviamly Jeffers needs improvement in that game as a commander. Can't really think of much to criticize him for in FE10 though.

Renning is actually the commander of Crimea's knights in FE9 anyway, if we want to get technical.

Speaking of the "Geoffrey rescue" chapter in FE9 I really dislike how that was written. Why are Lucia and Bastian so eager to retreat? They're both supposed to be reasonably intelligent- there's nothing particularly remarkable in the Daein forces this chapter that should encourage retreat. It really just seems designed to prop up Ike.

Edited August 18, 2012 by -Cynthia-

[Anacybele]

Renning is actually the commander of Crimea's knights in FE9 anyway, if we want to get technical.

But Geoffrey is still a general at the time. Kieran says he served under "General Geoffrey" after you rescue him from the prison. Also, by the time you have to rescue Geoffrey's ass, Renning is already long assumed to be dead, so he had plenty of time to decide to take over for him.

[-Cynthia-]

But Geoffrey is still a general at the time. Kieran says he served under "General Geoffrey" after you rescue him from the prison. Also, by the time you have to rescue Geoffrey's ass, Renning is already long assumed to be dead, so he had plenty of time to decide to take over for him.

Yeah he commanded a platoon- which isn't really indicative of his overall leadership skills.

I'll also note that it was Elincia's decision to march against Ludveck at Felirae, not Geoffrey. Geoffrey isn't blind to there being a threat against Elincia either.

Lucia

Good luck! I'll be sure to keep the palace safe. I'm sorry we couldn't allocate more troops for you. You'll be OK, though, right?

Geoffrey

Of course. We might even have too many. Actually, I'm more worried about the queen's safety. Make sure the guards stay sharp.

Lucia

Count on it. I'll maintain a tight watch on the area, and there is the backup plan, just in case.

Geoffrey

Good... Hearing you reiterate that makes me feel better, I have to admit.

Lucia

Remember, this isn't for glory. You'll be confronting our own people. Just do your job and come straight back.

Before Battle (Felirae)

Crimean Rebel 1

The Royal Knights have left the capital! We estimate roughly 4,000 soldiers are marching on Felirae.

Ludveck

That means about 2,000 are left in the capital... That's more than I'd expected. ...Hmm, I suppose it can't be helped. The column headed toward Felirae is primarily cavalry, is it not?

Crimean Rebel 1

Yes, sir. Exactly as you surmise, sir.

Ludveck

In that case, the forces at the capital will be led by the queen's confidante, Lady Lucia. This is most perfect. The soldiers remaining at Castle Felirae have been given detailed instructions...false instructions, I might add. ...The dear pawns. They are so very heroic, and so very disposable.

No, he was not omniscient in detecting the trap, but he wasn't totally unprepared either. And of course you knew it was a trap beforehand...the game more or less explicitly tells you before it happens! Hardly seems to qualify you for instructing anyone about leadership.

[CT075]

well see if the game hadn't given you hints on ludveck's trap then i bet you'd be crying "HEY WAIT THAT CAME OUT OF NOWHERE"

[Anacybele]

Yeah he commanded a platoon- which isn't really indicative of his overall leadership skills.

You completely missed my point here. No, Kieran was the one who commanded the platoon. Geoffrey is a GENERAL. Kieran's superior.

I'll also note that it was Elincia's decision to march against Ludveck at Felirae, not Geoffrey. Geoffrey isn't blind to there being a threat against Elincia either.

Yes, but Geoffrey could have suggested an alternative plan, thus having a feeling that Ludveck was, I don't know, more cunning and intelligent than they thought. But no, Geoffrey went, "Go attack Felirae? Okay! I'm on it! Bye!" Not his exact words, of course, but he might as well have said it this way. He didn't think of the risks he'd be taking, or thought that Ludveck might not actually be there. Just like Elincia said all the way back in PoR, Geoffrey takes too many risks. Too bad that didn't change in RD.

No, he was not omniscient in detecting the trap, but he wasn't totally unprepared either. And of course you knew it was a trap beforehand...the game more or less explicitly tells you before it happens! Hardly seems to qualify you for instructing anyone about leadership.

Oh, my apologies, I meant that I knew even before the game told you. When I first saw Ludveck and some of his dialogue in the game, he automatically screamed to me "guy who's really strong and knows what the hell he's doing." I never thought he'd be dumb enough to remain in Felirae so Geoffrey and company could take him out.

Seriously, why do people always have to argue against my opinions and views? Can't I have them in peace?

Edited August 18, 2012 by Anacybele

[-Cynthia-]

You completely missed my point here. No, Kieran was the one who commanded the platoon. Geoffrey is a GENERAL. Kieran's superior.

I'll note that simply being on the losing side doesn't indicate poor leadership- many generals in history are considered great despite not being the winners' side.

Yes, but Geoffrey could have suggested an alternative plan, thus having a feeling that Ludveck was, I don't know, more cunning and intelligent than they thought. But no, Geoffrey went, "Go attack Felirae? Okay! I'm on it! Bye!" Not his exact words, of course, but he might as well have said it this way. He didn't think of the risks he'd be taking, or thought that Ludveck might not actually be there. Just like Elincia said all the way back in PoR, Geoffrey takes too many risks. Too bad that didn't change in RD.

Geoffrey left enough forces behind at Fort Alpea that Elincia either holds out or defeats Ludveck...seemed to work out pretty well. I'll note that not doing anything about the rebels is a poor move- open war will probably break out across Crimea sooner or later. Without having intimate knowledge of Ludveck's plans, attacking the source of the problem makes sense and Geoffrey has no reason to believe Ludveck isn't in Felirae. "Something more cunning and intelligent" is also exceptionally vague.

Oh, my apologies, I meant that I knew even before the game told you. When I first saw Ludveck and some of his dialogue in the game, he automatically screamed to me "guy who's really strong and knows what the hell he's doing." I never thought he'd be dumb enough to remain in Felirae so Geoffrey and company could take him out.

I'll note that Geoffrey doesn't ever meet Ludveck in the script and thus is privy to less information than the player is, so you're still using more information that he has available. It only makes sense to assume Ludveck is in Felirae given what information he has- that means this isn't a good example of Geoffrey's "poor leadership".

Seriously, why do people always have to argue against my opinions and views? Can't I have them in peace?

Because your opinions are poorly supported by the text and generally just exist to serve your own biases.

Edited August 18, 2012 by -Cynthia-

[Anacybele]

I'll note that simply being on the losing side doesn't indicate poor leadership- many generals in history are considered great despite not being the winners' side.

I didn't say being on the losing side alone indicated bad leadership.

Geoffrey left enough forces behind at Fort Alpea that Elincia either holds out or defeats Ludveck...seemed to work out pretty well. I'll note that not doing anything about the rebels is a poor move- open war will probably break out across Crimea sooner or later. Without having intimate knowledge of Ludveck's plans, attacking the source of the problem makes sense and Geoffrey has no reason to believe Ludveck isn't in Felirae. "Something more cunning and intelligent" is also exceptionally vague.

Yet the Royal Knights had to come to her aid anyway. She would have been defeated if they hadn't shown up because she had such a small force with her. It's the whole reason Ludveck lured the knights away in the first place. So he could make Elincia vulnerable enough. Also, if Geoffrey never did anything wrong, why did he admit to his mistakes after Ludveck was defeated? I commended him for that and still do. Elincia might not have agreed that he messed up, but that's beside the point. Geoffrey believed he messed up, so he did.

And I never said they had to do NOTHING about the rebels. Of course that's stupid.

I'll note that Geoffrey doesn't ever meet Ludveck in the script and thus is privy to less information than the player is, so you're still using more information that he has available. It only makes sense to assume Ludveck is in Felirae given what information he has- that means this isn't a good example of Geoffrey's "poor leadership"

But Lucia did meet him, and she passed information onto Elincia and Geoffrey. Thus, they should all know how cunning and smart he is.

Because your opinions are poorly supported by the text and generally just exist to serve your own biases.

lol. How exactly am I biased in anything? And my opinions aren't poorly supported. I did my research and I formed most of what I believe after doing so. You just don't like my opinions because you're blinded by your Geoffrey fangirlism. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make my opinions terrible. You're one of the reasons I left this forum a long time ago, you know. Because of stubborn people like you not accepting that others have different views and opinions from your own, whether they make sense to people or not.

You like Geoffrey and think he's super. Good for you. I don't and that's my opinion. Like I said, deal with it.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Anacybele

[eclipse]

lol. How exactly am I biased in anything? And my opinions aren't poorly supported. I did my research and I formed most of what I believe after doing so. You just don't like my opinions because you're blinded by your Geoffrey fangirlism. Just because you disagree with me doesn't make my opinions terrible. You're one of the reasons I left this forum a long time ago, you know. Because of stubborn people like you not accepting that others have different views and opinions from your own, whether they make sense to people or not.

You like Geoffrey and think he's super. Good for you. I don't and that's my opinion. Like I said, deal with it.

1. It's obvious you don't like Geoffrey, both of which are supported by your writing and your arguments here.

2. People who disagree with you aren't auto-Geoffrey fans.

3. Can you accept someone ELSE having a different opinion? Because that's precisely what Cynthia has.

4. Cynthia also has the right to point out logical holes in your argument. She's doing it with more civility than me, so I'll leave that to her.

5. Ever heard of covering all your bases? This was a WIFOM situation. By marching against Felirae, it also ensures that Ludveck has nowhere to go back to. I have no problems with logical decisions, and the decision to march on Felirae was perfectly logical.

[Anacybele]

1. It's obvious you don't like Geoffrey, both of which are supported by your writing and your arguments here.

You misunderstand me. The fact that I think he's a bad leader is but one of the reasons I don't like him. I'm not screaming "I hate Geoffrey, so I think he's a bad leader!"

2. People who disagree with you aren't auto-Geoffrey fans.

I happen to know Cynthia likes Geoffrey. She said so a long time ago in a debate that caused me to leave the forum, despite that I did have some support from a fellow member. I'm not assuming all people who disagree with me are Geoffrey fans either.

3. Can you accept someone ELSE having a different opinion? Because that's precisely what Cynthia has.

Of course. I just said that I don't care if she likes Geoffrey. She can if she wants to. I can't stop her.

4. Cynthia also has the right to point out logical holes in your argument. She's doing it with more civility than me, so I'll leave that to her.

And I don't have the right to point out holes in her arguments in return?

5. Ever heard of covering all your bases? This was a WIFOM situation. By marching against Felirae, it also ensures that Ludveck has nowhere to go back to. I have no problems with logical decisions, and the decision to march on Felirae was perfectly logical.

Of course I have. I've been trying to cover my bases. Maybe Geoffrey being lured into a trap by Ludveck wasn't the best example to use for my opinion, but I still stand by my opinion that I don't think he's a very good leader, or at least nearly as good as powerful generals like Ike and Zelgius.

[-Cynthia-]

Yet the Royal Knights had to come to her aid anyway. She would have been defeated if they hadn't shown up because she had such a small force with her. It's the whole reason Ludveck lured the knights away in the first place. So he could make Elincia vulnerable enough.

But the way it panned out was that Ludveck lost at both Alpea and Felirae. Elincia wasn't as vulnerable as Ludveck thought because Geoffrey left a significant number of soldiers behind.

But Lucia did meet him, and she passed information onto Elincia and Geoffrey. Thus, they should all know how cunning and smart he is.

Lucia: Ludveck is cunning.

Geoffrey: Then he couldn't possibly still be at Felirae!

Is that what a "good leader" would have done? It's a logical leap- of course Ludveck MIGHT not be at Felirae, but without any information otherwise it makes sense to assume he's there. I would agree that it would have been a poor move to lead the Royal Knights to Felirae and leave Elincia completely undefended, but he didn't do that.

lol. How exactly am I biased in anything? And my opinions aren't poorly supported. I did my research and I formed most of what I believe after doing so. You just don't like my opinions because you're blinded by your Geoffrey fangirlism.p

I don't like your hindsight look of "Of course it was a trap, Geoffrey's a terrible leader!" since you're not considering the information the character has available, just the information available to you. It'd be similar to me saying "Ike is stupid for falling into that trap in PoR Chapter 7". Ike didn't actually know the Daein army was there or where Greil was- checking a nearby fort where noises were heard makes sense even though it was incorrect.

Just because you disagree with me doesn't make my opinions terrible.

True, it's the reasoning you use that make your opinions terrible.

You're one of the reasons I left this forum a long time ago, you know. Because of stubborn people like you not accepting that others have different views and opinions from your own, whether they make sense to people or not.

"People don't agree with me so I'll leave this forum!" is not a mature way to handle discussions. If you can't deal with discussions about a video game without getting personally offended maybe you should leave.

You like Geoffrey and think he's super. Good for you. I don't and that's my opinion. Like I said, deal with it.

I don't think Geoffrey is "super", but I believe you're erroneous in your assessment.

[eclipse]

You misunderstand me. The fact that I think he's a bad leader is but one of the reasons I don't like him. I'm not screaming "I hate Geoffrey, so I think he's a bad leader!"

I happen to know Cynthia likes Geoffrey. She said so a long time ago in a debate that caused me to leave the forum, despite that I did have some support from a fellow member. I'm not assuming all people who disagree with me are Geoffrey fans either.

Of course. I just said that I don't care if she likes Geoffrey. She can if she wants to. I can't stop her.

And I don't have the right to point out holes in her arguments in return?

Of course I have. I've been trying to cover my bases. Maybe Geoffrey being lured into a trap by Ludveck wasn't the best example to use for my opinion, but I still stand by my opinion that I don't think he's a very good leader, or at least nearly as good as powerful generals like Ike and Zelgius.

1. Bias will affect how you interpret things, as well as how you argue your point. In your case, you've already decided that Geoffrey was a bad leader, and don't like him. Furthermore, I have yet to see you admit that you're wrong on matters such as these. Combine both, and your interpretations will be skewed towards WHY Geoffrey is a bad leader, with little regard to interpretations that say otherwise.

2. One can LIKE someone without being blinded by fangirlism. I believe that Cynthia falls under this category.

3. I don't like the fact that you're dismissing what she says because you perceive her to be a blind Geoffrey fangirl.

4. You're not doing a good job, IMO. Cynthia's winning this one, because your idea of Geoffrey the Good General sounds like a Stu.

5. Okay, you have any other examples, since your main one has been shot down?

[Anacybele]

But the way it panned out was that Ludveck lost at both Alpea and Felirae. Elincia wasn't as vulnerable as Ludveck thought because Geoffrey left a significant number of soldiers behind.

He lost at Alpea because the knights got there in time because they happened to know a shortcut. In short, they lucked out.

Lucia: Ludveck is cunning.

Geoffrey: Then he couldn't possibly still be at Felirae!

Is that what a "good leader" would have done? It's a logical leap- of course Ludveck MIGHT not be at Felirae, but without any information otherwise it makes sense to assume he's there. I would agree that it would have been a poor move to lead the Royal Knights to Felirae and leave Elincia completely undefended, but he didn't do that.

Of course not. I meant Geoffrey should've considered his options, not just assume one thing or the other. And actually, he didn't leave any knights with Elincia. He took them all with him. Some of the main army was left with Elincia. But she wasn't completely undefended, true.

I don't like your hindsight look of "Of course it was a trap, Geoffrey's a terrible leader!" since you're not considering the information the character has available, just the information available to you. It'd be similar to me saying "Ike is stupid for falling into that trap in PoR Chapter 7". Ike didn't actually know the Daein army was there or where Greil was- checking a nearby fort where noises were heard makes sense even though it was incorrect.

...I never said I thought Geoffrey was a bad leader just because he fell for one trap. I pointed out other flaws as well, which you apparently missed.

True, it's the reasoning you use that make your opinions terrible.

Now you're just being plain insulting. You don't even know all of my reasoning behind all of my views/theories/opinions. You shouldn't jump to conclusions, you know.

"People don't agree with me so I'll leave this forum!" is not a mature way to handle discussions. If you can't deal with discussions about a video game without getting personally offended maybe you should leave.

And now you're putting words in my mouth. I never left because people disagreed with me. You're right, that's completely immature. I left because people were being downright insulting to me and not accepting that I don't agree with them because they don't like my opinions. THEY were the ones being immature. I just didn't want to deal with them anymore.

[CT075]

He lost at Alpea because the knights got there in time because they happened to know a shortcut. In short, they lucked out.

or you could, yanno, rush lundgren with haar and then the knights don't arrive in time... (protip: not being serious)

Of course not. I meant Geoffrey should've considered his options, not just assume one thing or the other. And actually, he didn't leave any knights with Elincia. He took them all with him. Some of the main army was left with Elincia. But she wasn't completely undefended, true.

option 1: go after the confirmed rebellious leader

option 2: don't go after the confirmed rebellious leader

i'm pretty sure there are no undue assumptions made here

Now you're just being plain insulting. You don't even know all of my reasoning behind all of my views/theories/opinions. You shouldn't jump to conclusions, you know.

then you should enlighten us because the reasoning you've given us is pretty terrible

And now you're putting words in my mouth. I never left because people disagreed with me. You're right, that's completely immature. I left because people were being downright insulting to me and not accepting that I don't agree with them because they don't like my opinions. THEY were the ones being immature. I just didn't want to deal with them anymore.

"thou art more immature than i and i shalt not deal with you"

yeah sure okay

[Anacybele]

or you could, yanno, rush lundgren with haar and then the knights don't arrive in time... (protip: not being serious)

You mean Ludveck.

option 1: go after the confirmed rebellious leader

option 2: don't go after the confirmed rebellious leader

i'm pretty sure there are no undue assumptions made here

I'm not a master tactician or anything (I suck at the GBA games, after all), but I'm sure there were other things they could've done or ways they could've changed up the plan they went with. Geoffrey, for one, could've actually left some knights with Elincia instead of taking them all with him.

then you should enlighten us because the reasoning you've given us is pretty terrible

I already explained all of my reasoning for thinking Geoffrey is not a very good leader. Note, I did not say he was absolutely terrible. Just not the best he could be. Going into other theories would be going off topic.

"thou art more immature than i and i shalt not deal with you"

yeah sure okay

*inb4trollalert*

[Rapier]

I'm not a master tactician or anything (I suck at the GBA games, after all), but I'm sure there were other things they could've done or ways they could've changed up the plan they went with. Geoffrey, for one, could've actually left some knights with Elincia instead of taking them all with him.

If he had left his best knights with her, he could have failed his mission. With Ludveck's influence, it was highly likely that his army was massive, so leaving his knights on the kitchen is actually a bad idea. After all, he was storming a castle (full-guarded) and that's not really an easy thing.

Elincia is left with enough soldiers to defend herself well, and in the end she doesn't even need Geoffrey to take care of Ludveck. Yeah, she's lucky to have Haar, Brom, Nephenee and Marcia, but she was unlucky enough to have her castle gates open to the enemies.

[-Cynthia-]

I'm not a master tactician or anything (I suck at the GBA games, after all), but I'm sure there were other things they could've done or ways they could've changed up the plan they went with. Geoffrey, for one, could've actually left some knights with Elincia instead of taking them all with him.

If you're not a master tactician then why are you telling Geoffrey to be a better leader? Also it makes sense to send the cavalry out since they'd be able to reach Felirae and come back more quickly rather than leave them indoors- mounted units fight better outdoors you know.

I already explained all of my reasoning for thinking Geoffrey is not a very good leader. Note, I did not say he was absolutely terrible. Just not the best he could be. Going into other theories would be going off topic.

Let's go into that then.

Hey, you're free to have your opinion. But I'm not saying Geoffrey is an absolute terrible leader. He does some things right. But compared to people like Ike and Zelgius? Geoffrey's a joke. They'd squish him like a bug in seconds. Those guys are real leaders.

Not being equal to Ike or Zelgius doesn't equate to "needing work on their leadership skills". Your other statements are full of emotional language that doesn't mean anything "is a joke" "squash like a bug" "real leaders" etc. Give an argument with some substance.

They're powerful,

More power doesn't make one a better leader...see Skrimir.

they know what risks to take and not to take, they make few mistakes, and even when they do make a mistake, they learn from it.

What's a mistake Geoffrey made? Or a risk he took that he shouldn't have...we've already discussed Ludveck.

Geoffrey didn't seem to have learned much or gotten much stronger at all in RD since PoR.

Example?

Almost every other playable paladin/Gold Knight/Silver Knight outranks him in usefulness and stats (just check out the forum's tier lists), but as I said, that's really IS's fault. Geoffrey is especially useless in Path of Radiance. By the time you get him, Oscar should already be a much stronger lance and bow wielding Paladin (ALWAYS give Oscar bows because of the Three Brothers Triangle Attack), so who needs a weaker one? Plus Kieran should be more powerful as well.

Gameplay stuff isn't relevant here, we're talking about their function in the plot. Jarod has more leadership stars than the Zelgius but that doesn't necessarily make him a better leader.

[CT075]

You mean Ludveck.

yeah that guy

I'm not a master tactician or anything (I suck at the GBA games, after all), but I'm sure there were other things they could've done or ways they could've changed up the plan they went with. Geoffrey, for one, could've actually left some knights with Elincia instead of taking them all with him.

oh right

you mean that thing that he actually did

unless you mean that option 3 is to charge a castle with a potentially insufficient force?

the force he left would have been adequate if there wasn't some traitor who opened the back for them

I already explained all of my reasoning for thinking Geoffrey is not a very good leader. Note, I did not say he was absolutely terrible. Just not the best he could be. Going into other theories would be going off topic.

and all your reasoning is kind of terrible

re-iterate please because the only coherent thought i'm getting is "geoffery sucks at strategy"

*inb4trollalert*

ok sure let's go with that

[Anacybele]

If you're not a master tactician then why are you telling Geoffrey to be a better leader? Also it makes sense to send the cavalry out since they'd be able to reach Felirae and come back more quickly rather than leave them indoors- mounted units fight better outdoors you know.

Except Elincia's group DID fight outdoors. Right outside of Alpea. And when Geoffrey and company show up, they have no problem joining the fight.

Not being equal to Ike or Zelgius doesn't equate to "needing work on their leadership skills". Your other statements are full of emotional language that doesn't mean anything "is a joke" "squash like a bug" "real leaders" etc. Give an argument with some substance.

I didn't say it did. I said that since Geoffrey isn't as good a leader as they are, he could be better than he already is. I'm not trying to insult him. I actually think he has great potential. Maybe he's not as bad as I thought he was. But I still think he could be better.

More power doesn't make one a better leader...see Skrimir.

Alone, no, power doesn't. But a leader still needs to be powerful. And I didn't mean power only as in brute strength. I meant powerful skills as well.

What's a mistake Geoffrey made? Or a risk he took that he shouldn't have...we've already discussed Ludveck.

Having so few troops with him at Delbray that he needed to be rescued? Or how about running and sacrificing his whole unit and letting Kieran get captured instead of finding reinforcements to try coming to his rescue as pointed out earlier? Geoffrey just abandoned him. That's not what a leader should do. Heck that's not what ANYone should do. I didn't even think of this reason until someone pointed it out in this thread earlier. I'm surprised Kieran still thought Geoffrey was his friend after that, now that I think about it. And as for risks, see Elincia's quote of "you take too many risks!" I can see where she's coming from too. He took a huge risk of trying to defend himself a Delbray on his own with so few troops. I can see why Elincia ordered Ike to save him.

Example?

His non-existent character development for one. To be honest, I used to like Geoffrey (in fact, I would have loved him had he gotten a less boring personality), and I still thought he was pretty alright even after finding out only he could marry Elincia in RD and Ike couldn't. But RD was what really made me dislike him. I expected him to be a stronger unit than before and more cunning and smart. But he felt like the same old Geoffrey from PoR. Like he didn't do one bit of training. He wasn't anymore useful or better statistically. He had some pretty corny dialogue in RD as well. "Go, my knights!" What kind of trash is that? I would have had him say "Alright, everyone, CHARGE!" instead. And that's just one example. I can't think of anymore off the top of my head now, but I know there were other lines of his that I hated. But anyway, he was just poorly written.

Gameplay stuff isn't relevant here, we're talking about their function in the plot. Jarod has more leadership stars than the Zelgius but that doesn't necessarily make him a better leader.

Okay then, ignore what I've said about gameplay. I also admit that perhaps Geoffrey isn't as bad a leader as I initially thought. But I still think he could be much better. As I said, I think he has a lot of potential. That's why in my writing, I'm having him become one of the best leaders in Tellius. If I was so biased towards my dislike for him, would I do that? Would I even give him a wife in the form of an original character as well?

Edited August 18, 2012 by Anacybele

[Parrhesia]

"Go, my knights!" What kind of trash is that? I would have had him say "Alright, everyone, CHARGE!" instead.

You know how everyone says you don't know how to write people in-character?

Yeah.