Gold/silver knights and seraph knights

[Airen]

Is there any advantage that gold/silver knights and seraph knights have over dragonlords? Stat-wise, in terms of stat caps, gold/silver knights are inferior in just about every stat, and I think have less constitution as well (have to check) so they can't rescue as many people as dragonlords, AND can't go up ledges, but has a slight advantage in that the mastery skill recovers HP. Seraph knights are inferior in every stat except around 3 more speed, but have the added weakness of bows and really terrible defense. All 3 classes have Canto and large movement, has a mastery skill that does 3x damage, and has 7 instead of 9 movement in indoor levels (HIGHLY annoying). So other than just using a variety of characters just for the fun of it, what are some other reasons to choose a gold/silver knight/seraph knight for endgame rather than a second dragonlord (Jill)? I've always used 2 dragonlords instead of 1 dragonlord + 1 gold knight (Titania) for endgame, and haven't touched pegasus knights so far due to their absolutely horrid availability. I mean how can you even train someone like Marcia without healer/boss abuse, if she is like never available for use? Even though Sigrun and Tanith are already high-leveled, their availability is even worse, having a grand total of 3 chapters where you can use them before endgame.

[Lord Raven]

I'm only posting to confirm that there is absolutely no reason to use anything over a Dragonlord >_>

[MacLovin]

Statboosters.......

Also, Tanith is easy to train, Sigrun just has lolgrowths.

Marcia's easy, with an energy drop, and some paragon+forges in silver army.

Kieran is slow and has skill problems, but Makalov is pretty decent when lvl'd.

'Astrid is decent when bexp dumped, and Fiona's shitty.

Titania/Oscar/Haar/Jill are all godlike, and Rennings pretty bro with hammer/braves/wyrmslayer/VK use in final

Why use only one of each class?

There's no restriction, it's better to use as many units of a great class, than one of each kind of class.

[Florete]

Most importantly, Jill should be your first Endgame Dragonlord.

The theoretical balance would come from various cap differences (especially Spd, which females always have more of) and the fact that Dragons have Thunder weakness while Seraphs have Bow weakness. Swords also have access to...Wyrmslayers, I guess. Looked at in a void, it's not too unbalanced. The real difference comes in the lack of availability for Seraphs and the numerous problem maps thrown at Paladins with little of the same for fliers.

Sigrun and Tanith get 4 chapters before Endgame (3-11, 3-E, two pre-Endgame part 4 maps), and Marcia really isn't all that difficult to use. It's not at all hard or unreasonable to focus on getting kills for her in her first few maps and Paragon starting at 3-9 will get her up in no time. Tanith and Sigrun are tougher to get Endgame-prepped, but Tanith is reasonable enough with some attention. Sigrun's Spd kinda screws her, though.

At the end of the day, there's no limit to the number of mounted units you can use, so I'll still take Marcia, Titania, and Astrid (when I choose to go that mile) over most foot units.

[Parrhesia]

Is it just me, or has FE10 Astrid enjoyed a massive boost in popularity recently? I'm assuming drafting's related, where you can afford to give her a few kills if you're landed with her... but I'm too used to seeing her put on the level of, like, Meg.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Im not a drafter but...Astrid with transfers (which are ludicrously easy to get) plus Blossom = some pretty fun times. Sure, its a bit of a pain but its no where near the level of asspainness as raising Fiona or Meg.

[Quintessence]

You just need to know how to use them. Haar is the easiest flier to use due to his awesomeness, but the other knights (gold, silver and seraph) just need some resources you should know how to use in the best way. Marcia, Sigrun and Tanith are really good for 3-11 and 3-E despite Jill doing their job in an easier and more reliable way.

You're missing Elincia. She's good as healbot at 2-P, low turns 2-E as well as 4-2 and 4-5. Despite having the availability issue, her contributions, her staff use and her growths compensate it.

The usefulness of these units depends also on their contributions on each Part they're available.

And...gogoASTRID!

[Silith]

Gold/Silver knights are pretty bleh.

Aside from Geoffrey, Keiran and Titania they do not work and even those 3 fall off in late game.

Seraph knights are still inferior to Haar and Jill but are probably better in endgame with triangle attacks, access to the wyrmslayer and and ranged SS rank weapon.

Maybe Astrid can be quite good in endgame with the SS-bow. She gets good speed but is soooo hard to get up there in level and stats.

[bottlegnomes]

In terms of just endgame? Gold knights have hammers and wyrmslayers. They're probably on par with dracos, as flying doesn't do much in endgame, and the stat differences aren't that big. Silver and seraph knights are worse. Seraphs have the speed to double auras with Nasir and wyrmslayers. Silvers have the two best ultimate weapons? *shrug*

Overall? Titania is really good. Oscar is quite good as well. The rest have their uses, except Astrid and Fiona. Heck, Renning's arguably the best endgame filler that's not a royal, and even then, he's better than a fair number of "nonfiller" characters.

But like others have said, why limit yourself?

Edited August 17, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[aku chi]

In terms of just endgame? Gold knights have hammers and wyrmslayers. They're probably on par with dracos, as flying doesn't do much in endgame, and the stat differences aren't that big. Silver and seraph knights are worse. Seraphs have the speed to double auras with Nasir and wyrmslayers. Silvers have the two best ultimate weapons? *shrug*

Overall? Titania is really good. Oscar is quite good as well. The rest have their uses, except Astrid and Fiona. Heck, Renning's arguably the best endgame filler that's not a royal, and even then, he's better than a fair number of "nonfiller" characters.

But like others have said, why limit yourself?

If we're talking about Endgame, Oscar (along with the rest of the Silver Knights) is rather poor. He doesn't have the strength or weapons to ORKO 4-E-1 Generals. It's even a struggle to get Oscar the Str to ORKO 4-E-1 Sages with a Javelin forge. Oscar's poor Str and Spd (cap) makes him close to useless in 4-E-3 and 4-E-5. Maybe he can kill a Guard Spirit in 4-E-4. The Seraph Knights are strictly better (when well-trained), because they can fly, have Wyrmslayer access, and 34 Spd.

[Quintessence]

Seraphs have 36Sp, Elincia has 35Sp

[Samias]

I don't think that Seraph Knights are bad so as much as the fact that the units themselves are somewhat problematic to train and have either a deficiency of either strength or speed. Their durability is also incredibly bad compared to Jill or Haar. However, if trained, they have wyrmslayer access and make good use of the wishblade. Gold knights have great weapon choices but lack speed for the wisps, but the only reason you would bring Oscar is for his earth affinity. Geoffrey is not worth it, and Fiona is Fiona. Astrid is a funny case in that blossom abuse helps her out so much if you wanted to suffer the pain of training her, but silver knight weapons ultimately aren't as good as the hammer/wyrmslayer deal gold knights have. Overall, I wouldn't bring too many horsies, but Titania is still worth deploying for her good combat on the early floors and is almost Haar's equal.

[bottlegnomes]

If we're talking about Endgame, Oscar (along with the rest of the Silver Knights) is rather poor. He doesn't have the strength or weapons to ORKO 4-E-1 Generals. It's even a struggle to get Oscar the Str to ORKO 4-E-1 Sages with a Javelin forge. Oscar's poor Str and Spd (cap) makes him close to useless in 4-E-3 and 4-E-5. Maybe he can kill a Guard Spirit in 4-E-4. The Seraph Knights are strictly better (when well-trained), because they can fly, have Wyrmslayer access, and 34 Spd.

In terms of just endgame? Gold knights have hammers and wyrmslayers. They're probably on par with dracos, as flying doesn't do much in endgame, and the stat differences aren't that big. Silver and seraph knights are worse. Seraphs have the speed to double auras with Nasir and wyrmslayers. Silvers have the two best ultimate weapons? *shrug*

Overall? Titania is really good. Oscar is quite good as well. The rest have their uses, except Astrid and Fiona. Heck, Renning's arguably the best endgame filler that's not a royal, and even then, he's better than a fair number of "nonfiller" characters.

But like others have said, why limit yourself?

Seems pretty clear I'm saying silvers are the worst of the bunch.

[Dr. Silent]

Marcia and Tanith are both usable. Tanith has surprisingly good Str growth but unreliable Spd. Marcia is the other way round. Sigrun has poor base stats and even worse growths...right up there with Meg and Fiona as a unit you should never use (except as a ferry in 3-11).

I've played through the game using both Marcia and Tanith, Normal difficulty (not the same playthrough though) and they both turned out well. Probably too much of a pain to train up in Hard mode as you can't Battle Save right before a level up and reset if growths sucked (applies more to Marcia because if she gets Str screwed you've wasted your time...Tanith's Spd growth is more reliable but she has a higher chance of dying in Hard mode).

Astrid rocks with PoR data transfer, Paragon and Blossom...can be frustrating to train but worth it. Oscar has terrible stat caps (especially Str/Spd) and his usefulness declines by the time whatever Part 4 team his is in reaches their second chapter.

Titania is probably the best Gold Knight in Easy/Normal due to her availability, but I've always found her way too fragile to last through Hard mode Part 4. Kieran is harder to train but is defensively superior to Titania. Has low Speed cap though (31 or 33, forgot)...I basically think of him as Haar on a horse with slightly lower stat caps. Makalov is even more difficult to train but ends up worth it (especially if you love his pink hair). Renning is a great filler unit, but if you trained up Kieran/Titania they will most likely have better stats.

Ultimately though, Jill and Haar outclass the lot (despite no ranged SS weapon).

/mytwocents

[Shadow Mir]

Marcia and Tanith are both usable. Tanith has surprisingly good Str growth but unreliable Spd. Marcia is the other way round. Sigrun has poor base stats and even worse growths...right up there with Meg and Fiona as a unit you should never use (except as a ferry in 3-11).

I've played through the game using both Marcia and Tanith, Normal difficulty (not the same playthrough though) and they both turned out well. Probably too much of a pain to train up in Hard mode as you can't Battle Save right before a level up and reset if growths sucked (applies more to Marcia because if she gets Str screwed you've wasted your time...Tanith's Spd growth is more reliable but she has a higher chance of dying in Hard mode).

Astrid rocks with PoR data transfer, Paragon and Blossom...can be frustrating to train but worth it. Oscar has terrible stat caps (especially Str/Spd) and his usefulness declines by the time whatever Part 4 team his is in reaches their second chapter.

Titania is probably the best Gold Knight in Easy/Normal due to her availability, but I've always found her way too fragile to last through Hard mode Part 4. Kieran is harder to train but is defensively superior to Titania. Has low Speed cap though (31 or 33, forgot)...I basically think of him as Haar on a horse with slightly lower stat caps. Makalov is even more difficult to train but ends up worth it (especially if you love his pink hair). Renning is a great filler unit, but if you trained up Kieran/Titania they will most likely have better stats.

Ultimately though, Jill and Haar outclass the lot (despite no ranged SS weapon).

/mytwocents

Personally, Tanith's only marginally better than Sigrun. And from what people here seem to believe, it's easier to make up for bad strength than it is to make up for bad speed. As I see it, if Tanith can avoid speed screwage, she's okay; else, you wasted your time.

And as for Kieran > Titania, I'd say Kieran's biorhythm screws him over pretty badly.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[MacLovin]

Marcia and Tanith are both usable. Tanith has surprisingly good Str growth but unreliable Spd. Marcia is the other way round. Sigrun has poor base stats and even worse growths...right up there with Meg and Fiona as a unit you should never use (except as a ferry in 3-11).

I've played through the game using both Marcia and Tanith, Normal difficulty (not the same playthrough though) and they both turned out well. Probably too much of a pain to train up in Hard mode as you can't Battle Save right before a level up and reset if growths sucked (applies more to Marcia because if she gets Str screwed you've wasted your time...Tanith's Spd growth is more reliable but she has a higher chance of dying in Hard mode).

Astrid rocks with PoR data transfer, Paragon and Blossom...can be frustrating to train but worth it. Oscar has terrible stat caps (especially Str/Spd) and his usefulness declines by the time whatever Part 4 team his is in reaches their second chapter.

Titania is probably the best Gold Knight in Easy/Normal due to her availability, but I've always found her way too fragile to last through Hard mode Part 4. Kieran is harder to train but is defensively superior to Titania. Has low Speed cap though (31 or 33, forgot)...I basically think of him as Haar on a horse with slightly lower stat caps. Makalov is even more difficult to train but ends up worth it (especially if you love his pink hair). Renning is a great filler unit, but if you trained up Kieran/Titania they will most likely have better stats.

Ultimately though, Jill and Haar outclass the lot (despite no ranged SS weapon).

/mytwocents

TItania/Oscar/Haar have more overall use throughout the game, Kieran/Makalov/Asstrid/Geoffrey just have 2.5 chapters before p4.

Kieran also has alot of skl/spd problems too, unlike Titania.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Personally, Tanith's only marginally better than Sigrun

I will agree with No-Tranfer Tanith, but Tanith with Transfers is nice to have. Her speed and strength climb quickly there. Sigrun will always have trouble with her strength.

[Dr. Silent]

Personally, Tanith's only marginally better than Sigrun. And from what people here seem to believe, it's easier to make up for bad strength than it is to make up for bad speed. As I see it, if Tanith can avoid speed screwage, she's okay; else, you wasted your time.

And as for Kieran > Titania, I'd say Kieran's biorhythm screws him over pretty badly.

Okay I was curious about this so I looked up Tanith and Sigrun's growths:

Sigrun - HP 40%, Str 45%, Mag 10%, Skl 70%, Spd 25%, Lck 70%, Def 10%, Res 50%

Tanith - HP 35%, Str 55%, Mag 15%, Skl 75%, Spd 40%, Lck 35%, Def 40%, Res 30%

The only things Sigrun has over Tanith are higher Luck and Res growths. 5% higher HP growth isn't really going to make much of a difference most of the time because her Defence growth is so awful it's practically non-existent...even Micaiah has a higher Defence growth at 20% (although much worse base)! Tanith is better at everything else...more than marginal difference I'd say. As Jon Snow pointed out, though, Tanith is much better with PoR transfer data.

TItania/Oscar/Haar have more overall use throughout the game, Kieran/Makalov/Asstrid/Geoffrey just have 2.5 chapters before p4.

Kieran also has alot of skl/spd problems too, unlike Titania.

4.5 for Astrid, Kieran and Makalov. 2-3, half of 2-E, 3-9, 3-11, 3-E. Still not much but if trained all three will turn out better than Oscar.

[Shadow Mir]

Okay I was curious about this so I looked up Tanith and Sigrun's growths:

Sigrun - HP 40%, Str 45%, Mag 10%, Skl 70%, Spd 25%, Lck 70%, Def 10%, Res 50%

Tanith - HP 35%, Str 55%, Mag 15%, Skl 75%, Spd 40%, Lck 35%, Def 40%, Res 30%

The only things Sigrun has over Tanith are higher Luck and Res growths. 5% higher HP growth isn't really going to make much of a difference most of the time because her Defence growth is so awful it's practically non-existent...even Micaiah has a higher Defence growth at 20% (although much worse base)! Tanith is better at everything else...more than marginal difference I'd say. As Jon Snow pointed out, though, Tanith is much better with PoR transfer data.

Marginal sounds about right for me considering Tanith's failing to blow Sigrun out of the water on most of her higher growths (and it doesn't help that she's worse off bases wise, with only 2 str andd 1 HP over Sigrun)... That said, I won't contest that she's better with transfers.

[MacLovin]

Okay I was curious about this so I looked up Tanith and Sigrun's growths:

Sigrun - HP 40%, Str 45%, Mag 10%, Skl 70%, Spd 25%, Lck 70%, Def 10%, Res 50%

Tanith - HP 35%, Str 55%, Mag 15%, Skl 75%, Spd 40%, Lck 35%, Def 40%, Res 30%

The only things Sigrun has over Tanith are higher Luck and Res growths. 5% higher HP growth isn't really going to make much of a difference most of the time because her Defence growth is so awful it's practically non-existent...even Micaiah has a higher Defence growth at 20% (although much worse base)! Tanith is better at everything else...more than marginal difference I'd say. As Jon Snow pointed out, though, Tanith is much better with PoR transfer data.

4.5 for Astrid, Kieran and Makalov. 2-3, half of 2-E, 3-9, 3-11, 3-E. Still not much but if trained all three will turn out better than Oscar.

I forgot.

People stall out 2-E.

Also, they may outdo him stat wise, but Oscar has been helping out for a longer period.

[Dr. Silent]

Being around for longer doesn't make up for the fact that his stat caps render him pretty much useless when you reach the second Part 4 chapter of whatever team he's in (realistically, he should only be in Tibarn's team if you're planning to bring him to 4-E). Except in Easy mode obviously, but almost everyone is usable in Easy mode.

Useful as he is in the Part 3 chapters he's around for (except 3-4, 3-7), he's just outclassed by most of the others.

Besides, he's hardly around for longer. Prior to 3-11, he's around for nine chapters, two of which he's next to useless in, so really he's only going to be seeing some serious action time in seven. Kieran, Astrid and Makalov are around for three chapters (only half of 2-E though). However, both 2-3 and 3-9 offer a boatload of experience with very few units to take it with. Let Kieran/Astrid/Makalov (whichever you want to use...Kieran and Astrid are easier) do most of the work, particularly in 3-9 where he can use Paragon, and he/she will be joining Ike's team at more or less the same level as Oscar. Since in 2-3 and 3-9 you can't really use Kieran, Astrid and Makalov altogether as you can realistically only focus on training one of them, you're forced to overuse one of them anyway.