I Can't Believe It's Not SFMM3 Minimafia - Game Over

[charlie_]

Oh, right.

##Vote: Weapons

Stop being so wishy washy.

[Aere]

Why can nobody understand me. I got pissed because everybody completely missed what I said (I said I was at L-2 like 50 times and you all kept going and making a huge deal on Weapons "L-1" vote). I don't mind people voting me, but I really don't like being ignored.

##Unvote

Funny, a Paper wagon kinda sprouted up. I feel like eclipse is softclaiming Oracle (Funny considering my role in ICBINSFMM2 was Oracle) or something like that.

[eclipse]

I'm not softclaiming anything.

[Grace]

(Funny considering my role in ICBINSFMM2 was Oracle) or something like that.

You were a neighbour that game, you're thinking of Schoolgirl where you were an Oracle

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I'm going to slap some people after this game is over.

[charlie_]

She's saying that if her flip helps the town win she's fine with dying.

[eclipse]

I'm going to slap some people after this game is over.

Maybe you'll have a better idea of what's happening once the game is over, because everyone's roles will be revealed?

[Sunwoo]

Why can nobody understand me. I got pissed because everybody completely missed what I said (I said I was at L-2 like 50 times and you all kept going and making a huge deal on Weapons "L-1" vote). I don't mind people voting me, but I really don't like being ignored.

There were a lot of posts popping up in a short amount of time. So sorry that I missed a few initially. :/

[Aere]

You were a neighbour that game, you're thinking of Schoolgirl where you were an Oracle

You're right. Also, there isn't a point in voting Paper right now, because he's not here to defend himself.

I'm not voting Cam, because he's being typical Cam, and he's claimed miller. However, DO SOME SCUMHUNTING. You've voted me, ok, but what are your thoughts on literally anybody else?

Manix, who are your top 3 scumreads?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

If you examine eclipse's defense, you'll see that she is just manipulating opinions.

As opposed to scumhunting, which is why this wagon has lead to the clearest reads of this game.

[CT075]

i've given my thoughts on other people i find scummy

as for everyone else i'm not going to disclose that yet

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Maybe you'll have a better idea of what's happening once the game is over, because everyone's roles will be revealed?

There are too many people I feel like slapping.

[eclipse]

If you examine eclipse's defense, you'll see that she is just manipulating opinions.

As opposed to scumhunting, which is why this wagon has lead to the clearest reads of this game.

I have my vote on who I want lynched today. It still hasn't changed. Your point?

I'm also seeing a lot of stupid misconceptions, which is what I'd normally be yelling at people for in my games (such as Aere not being vanilla, when the rules state that they do exist, or Aere having to be town because of the vanilla claim, which the rules have something to say about). If someone's going to be lynched, I do NOT want it to be because some schmuck misread the rules or something equally lame.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

I have my vote on who I want lynched today. It still hasn't changed. Your point?

If that was what it took for me to see someone as actively scumhunting, I'd see your point.

[Grace]

Manix, who are your top 3 scumreads?

You'll have to give me a bit to figure stuff out, because a lot has happened and I don't think I've quite processed it.

But for now:

Cam: Miller claim feels like a cop out to me right now, and not contributing that much like lurkscum

Shinori: Hasn't done that much to alter my opinion of him this phase, and is starting to become unmemorable

and I really don't have a third right now because my reads are currently lame as balls. :/

[eclipse]

If that was what it took for me to see someone as actively scumhunting, I'd see your point.

Still not seeing a reason to move my vote. I don't remove votes because of what others do, unless I feel it warrants a vote. The "Paperblade has an interesting wagon" argument isn't enough reason for me to look elsewhere; I'm still waiting for a response from him. Thus, my vote isn't moving. I don't feel like advertising where my vote goes next, because there's plenty of time for me to change my mind (and maybe for the people I don't like to help me change it). If there were something like five hours left in the phase, you might have a point.

[Shinori]

Shinori: Hasn't done that much to alter my opinion of him this phase, and is starting to become unmemorable

I really have nothing to say. *shrug*

[Helios]

@Weapons: Having unpopular opinions doesn't make you scummy, but it's something worth noting when you have completely opposite opinions on consensus scumspects (like Elieson, and potentially Aere). This really is only something worth noting if Aere flips scum though. You've been flaky as of late too which isn't good either. Putting that aside though, what do you mean exactly by "Eclipse manipulating opinions"?

[eclipse]

@Weapons: Having unpopular opinions doesn't make you scummy, but it's something worth noting when you have completely opposite opinions on consensus scumspects (like Elieson, and potentially Aere). This really is only something worth noting if Aere flips scum though. You've been flaky as of late too which isn't good either. Putting that aside though, what do you mean exactly by "Eclipse manipulating opinions"?

Probably me trying to clear up some of the dumber reasons why Aere's claim isn't necessarily fake (possibly arguing town) and why he could still be scum (should be obvious which way that one leans). I have a serious problem with ill-informed lynches.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Because we should talk about this

Does that mean that you're not only claiming Miller, but claiming to be Rein?

Because, you know...everyone wants to be cool and say that nowadays.

Leaning not buddies.

For starters, I would absolutely love to see more from Aere/Seo, and actually anything from Marth, but life I guess.

Aere's post didn't look like he is voting for manix for any serious reason, and I don't particularly like it. Seo looked lazy/wagony, not too good imo. Helios could stand to like, talk about something for an extended period of time, too.

Manix and Paper are arguing over playstyles, not pressing anything on eachother really. Coming off to me as intown bickering.

At least one of the people mentioned here is a buddy.

Shinori, let me ask you something. Your posts seems pretty focused on me, or asking others what they think of me. Why are you so incapable of seeing Weapons as scum?

You are being so bouncy, pointing fingers on manix and paper and me, and waffling on WoMC because of what, meta meta meta?

Leaning not buddies.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110474

Answers my general question with obvious answer. Nothing really wrong with it, but didn't do anything besides acknowledge it. (which I was the first to point out, and only brought up the Miller thing in 1 post, why does anyone think I'm clinging to it?)

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110490

Repeating what Helios said, which is repeating what she had already said.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110633

Lecturing Cam on principles of the game of Mafia itself. Something that should be in SF Mafia Info Dump or some other main game standards thread. Not really bringing anything, or trying to move forward.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110638

More on the Miller thing, and repeating principles of her previous post. I'm seeing a trend here.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110651

Much better here, where she acknowledges something unusual that WoMC did, but not really showing anything beyond curiosity.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110657

Interpreting mechanics, nothing major of note here.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110835

More "curiosity" towards WoMC, nothing really on Helios, "gut feeling" on Paperblade (something Manix is already doing), and a negative (at least justified) point against me. This is probably the best post you have so far, but it's just beginning to hint at your thoughts of a few other players.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=211152

The Lazy/wagony that I am refering to is explained above. Apparently, general consensus says I deserve to be voted for, because WoMC is posting in a cryptic language that I disagree with (if I'm interpreting it correctly). I know you have class, and I'm not saying you should do anything as to jeopardize that, but I am saying that so far, you've really shown null reads and null interests on everything, except for sticking your toes in the pool of an Anti-Elieson wagon, shared a "gut feeling" against Paper, and finally developing an opinion on WoMC. At least you acknowledge Aere acting strange. He's probably acting on some sort of gut feeling that he can't really back up properly either, but it's something. Also, scorri, Kay, Helios, Strider and Cam haven't done much of anything (a few clarifications on proper game performance, and a miller claim, are the highlights of the five of them)

This final post is probably your most organized and thought-invoked post, and I'm glad to see it. Frankly, the rest of your posts had shown simple curiosity, at best, and while I'm not calling back what I said, I am letting you know that I'm withdrawing it, since you've provided actual thought on player activity.

May need to meta analysis first, but Seoyeon is most likely not a buddy.

Helios

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110346

Interest in Manix's voting on WoMC, and RVSing Kay. Okay, whatever,

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110487

Answering my question on Cam's miller claim. Generic response.

Follows it with a weird interpretation of Paper's activity. Active Lurking, 4 hours into the game? That's a bold statement, I don't really like it. You're trying to draw negative attention to him, but with awkward logic.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110452

More against Paperblade, kinda. Sure, Paper hasn't done much by this point, but he is trying to get us to focus on scumhunting, he wants a policy Vig on Cam, and is defending Kay from a silly offense on her.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110609

Acknowledging that Cam's a miller, and not to believe it just because it's claimed (everyone's doing this, which is good, because it shows that people are at least paying attention to claims and tried, but not good because it's been mentioned already, by him among others).

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110647

Acknowledges another point about RVSing that makes sense, (I guess), then says Miller shouldn't claim early. What would you do if someone was at say L-2, and was scanned, and claimed Miller at that point? You don't have to answer that, it's rhetorical, but I think you get my point.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110649

Two posts later, finally notices that WoMC is in the game. Finally.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110662

Pokes WoMC about his "scumwatch", and compliments WoMC. Strangly, this gives me the impression that you find him to be extremely town. Feel free to clarify if you'd like.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111236

Finally, a meaty post.

Sees that Paper is actually playing the game, so shifts attention to the newly posting Marth and the crappily posting Aere.

I find his vote on Aere justified, his frustration with Marth equally, though it's his first post, so I didn't expect a New York Times Best Seller from his, or anyone's first post really. Though, one point I disagree with is on giving Manix a free pass because he was grumpy. If I told you I was grumpy and in a foul mood, and was arguing with someone else like say, Prims, would you give me a free pass for the day?

Don't forget to prod Marth about his sluggish analysis of the game later on, since you've made a point to remember to do it.

_________

Helios-Hangs on the Miller claim for many posts, and provides a few opinions here and there. Striking me as a slight lean on scum. I need to ISO other players to see where he weighs in with the rest, but I'm not really getting Town-vibes from ya.

Could go either way on Helios buddy. Elieson isn't very nasty here.

Aere

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110414

Hello to you too.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2110804

Finds Manix scummy, and tries to justify it. Not really scummy here.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111051

Finds Manix scummier than before. I interpret his post different than you though, so...

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111107

Misinterprets Opportunistic.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111125

More eyes on Manix.

---

Aere-Tunnelling Manix, who is juggling feelings. I don't find it to be a very good argument, aside from his first post against Manix where he voted him. I think Aere has 0 other thoughts on the game, except for Scum!Manix. Should probably look at the rest of the game and players. Hell, you haven't even acknowledged WoMC, Cam's Miller claim, or anything wagon-related. And your most recent post wasn't that long ago.

I'm thinking either you got a bug up your ass and Manix is the first thing you saw to take it out on, or you and Manix are scumteam, and you're trying to bus the living fudge out of him to give you/him a lategame pass.

Leaning not buddies.

Strider

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111356

Yea, I'd ISO you, but you made 3 posts. One confirming entry, one RVS on Cam, and this.

Not a bad post overall, just, as Paper said, please please please make a few more, before you're force-subbed from the game, if not for anything more than courtesy.

_____

Leaning Town for Rein

Could go either way.

Bolded all the parts that Rein actually made sense with. Because they made sense, I'm not finding him to be insta scum. I didn't say I found him to be forsuretown, but his point and vote on Kay is at least justified. No one has really brought up Kay's explaination of the rules of How to Play, and aside from that, I don't think she's done much of note either (I haven't ISO'd her).

Cam, I'm developing and explaining my town/scum reads. That way, if I get lynched or nightkilled, there's something to go off of other than "Elieson is tunnelling WoMC, and did crap for the rest of the day" What would happen if a Vig shot you, Cam? Would we learn anything if you flipped accordingly to your claim, and have something for D2?

I'll be back to break things apart more in a little bit.

Someone compare how he talks to Rein and how he talks to all the other not that active people. Also, still leaning not buddies with Cam.

Home from jobs 1&2. Kids are in bed, and prepped for school tomorrow. Long ass day that I really don't feel like reminding myself of by talking about. Give me a few while play catchup.

SPAWN OF SCUM

##Unvote, Vote: Elieson's kids

General thoughts.

Shinori is looking at me for my Meta, which is pretty much something that happened in Higurashi Mafia, where he analyzed me for my meta again. He was town there, so this isn't something I'm shocked by. However, stop looking at meta and look at post content.

Next, WTF is THIS? Questions 1-2 are standard, and even 3 can be acceptable because we've already discussed vig, I really don't have a problem with, but the softclaim in Question 4 I do.

Scummy as fuckall.

I have more problems swallowing THIS SOFTCLAIM.

Antitown-y as fuckall, but because you're not an "inexperienced player", I don't think that the latter was the softclaim I should be paying attention to.

Next:

Cam should try reading posts for quality, not quantity. When I said I thought Rein was town, it was because I thought his only half-assed post was well explained, and related to perception of the players in the game. He hasn't spent his time posting half about game mechanics and half about fuckwhatever else. Also, me making a post per player as opposed to a monstrous post encompassing say, 6 players, shouldn't make a fuck of a difference, because in the end, i'm still saying the exact same amount of information, I'm just organizing it differently.

More: I'm set on WoMC being town, because of posts like this.

Leaning not buddies with Shinori. And Cam still.

Paperbrad, feel like contributing something? All you seem to be doing right now is telling Shinori that he's stupid for trying to seek information. Yes, I think he's scummy as day old dog shit for approaching it that way, but you seem awfully aggressive on someone trying to get town information when you're spending your time explaining why we shouldn't be trying to figure anything out. I'd like to see something town out of you. Town hiding behind a wall, keeping our mouths closed is about as anti-town as it gets. I'm not gonna sit by and get picked off by scum while you try to punish attempts at promoting informative and heavy discussion. It's almost like you're just trying to tell us to shut our mouths because it makes everyone look vague and mysterious, and quite frankly, I think it gives off a pretty strong stench of not wanting any contribution, and at the same time, telling us that it's exactly what we're supposed to do. I think you just tripped over your own feet there, Paperbrad.

Except for this. This just seems off.

##Vote Paperblade

Most likely not buddies with Paper.

Ok Helios, not exactly sure where I've "Given Up", but I didn't sign up for this to quit when people decide that they don't like me. Not sure where that was mistead from.

That being said. Cam and Kay aren't doing much of anything, Shinori is flailing about like Shinori, Marth has poor logic like Marth, and Paperbrad doesn't seem to really be doing anything as far as scumhunting, other than arguing mechanics, which is baffling to me as no one else really cares about it.

Someone here is scum. Probably Marth by process of elimination. Then again scorri also hasn't been mentioned (I think).

I mentioned paperbrad above, and why I think he is scum. I won't even acknowledge his vote on me, because it's really just an OMGUS, and I really don't care about his opinions until he backs them up with concrete evidence/details.

Still leaning not bus gambit.

I think marth is scum because his logic is once again, derpy derp.

I also think at least one of Cam, Scorri, Kay, or Aere is scum. I'm not willing to discredit the possibility of those not super active being worthy of a free pass.

I'd go into more details, but my break is over.

At least one of these is scum. Again, I say Marth or scorri.

Not really mentioned: Manix

Probably not buddies.

Leaning not buddies with Helios by the end.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

@Weapons: Having unpopular opinions doesn't make you scummy, but it's something worth noting when you have completely opposite opinions on consensus scumspects (like Elieson, and potentially Aere). This really is only something worth noting if Aere flips scum though. You've been flaky as of late too which isn't good either. Putting that aside though, what do you mean exactly by "Eclipse manipulating opinions"?

Her response to "you're trying too hard to look helpful" was essentially "I'm okay with being lynched," which isn't a reason not to lynch her, but an emotional appeal, like self-voting or something.

[Shinori]

##unvote:

Based off of previous thoughts, weapons newest post, and the Aere claim I'm gonna reread a few things and place a vote later tonight. Scorri scum-meta was partially there but she's swapped out now and supposedly it was because of school and what not and too busy with life which is understandable. Now it's SB and so far I'm leaning more town on him. Still don't like the paper wagon. Still wouldn't be opposed to an Aere lynch and Eclipse seems fine with a lynch on her as well but I'm gonna assume she is most likely town, which means I do not want to lynch that.

Starting to think we should just lynch Marth who since vanished and hasn't been here which seems really sketchy, and it's not like he has done much when he was around.

[eclipse]

Her response to "you're trying too hard to look helpful" was essentially "I'm okay with being lynched," which isn't a reason not to lynch her, but an emotional appeal, like self-voting or something.

It's not an emotional appeal, it's a statement of fact. My logic is backed up both by what I see in my role PM and what I see in this thread. Deal with it.

[Sunwoo]

I know I said I wouldn't be opposed to a Marth lynch, but I want him to get back here and try to explain himself before we lynch him. Also, I'm a bit wary of Marth. I thought he was scum for sure in Xenoblade, but he turned out to be town. I just have a feeling that whatever Marth does, it'll look somewhat scummy to me unless he drastically changes his play style. Still, if I do not like Marth any better, I wouldn't mind lynching.

Definitely wouldn't mind lynching Aere either. I already mentioned D1 and D2 play that I didn't like, and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind on hm.

Weapons is ... odd. Just odd. He could be either scum or he could be town. I need to make up my mind on him. Right now, I'd say I lean more town on him but that could change.

I wouldn't lynch Cam just yet. His inactivity is irritating, but if he is really on a trip as he claimed to be on this thread, I'd imagine scum hunting might be low in his priorities. Also, he's playing like ... Cam. :/ Yeah, I'd leave him be for a little while longer.

[Prims]

Aere (2) - Paperblade, CT075

Paperblade (2) - eclipse, Helios

CT075 (1) - Manix

eclipse (1) - WeaponsofMassConstruction

Shinori (1) - Bluedoom

WeaponsofMassConstruction (1) - Serious Bananas

Not Voting - Aere, Seoyeon, Shinori

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. You have about 41.5 hours left in the day.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Prims