Nostalgia Mafia Game Over

[riariadne]

Rein that's a terrible reason to not vote anybody. You're literally saying "I think this guy is scummy, I also think this guy is scummy. I am going to support the lynch off neither".

what are you talking about I'm voting Psych already

[Kay]

@Kay- Well, I wouldn't say I'm a good scumhunter, but when I see people make posts, I try to see the motivation behind them and think whether scum would make a post like that, or if they'd want to make a post like that. And then if I find something I think scum would do, I vote for that person (unless someone else is going something scummier). With you, it feels like a lot of small poking with not much conviction behind it because you don't back it up properly. Which is why my vote is on you. Plus, you still haven't explained the reason behind your vote for me.

Gut feeling, and it kinda seems like you're looking a bit too hard for reasons to call people scummy. I mean, you seem to be suspicious of nearly everyone.

Simply put.

Scum-reads, in no particular order:

BBM

Prims

Psych

SB

All others are neutral, scum, or town reads.

You mean, all the others are neutral or town reads?

[Shinori]

I am trying to iso on my phone. It's rather difficult though, as it only lists links to userposts, it doesn't open them up.

Wait. Hold the phone. Manix, did you just say stop tring to end RVS?

##Vote Manix

Do I need to explain this one any more?

Is that your only reason for voting him? Nothing else? There are better reason that you could say to vote manix than just him telling you to stop ending RVS the way you do.

You were voting Navo last game so I'm not sure why you would need to ask this.

What does this mean in regards to BBM's question? I'm stupid and I didn't understand even after reading like 3 times.

I really wish people I vote would stop vanishing. I'm leaving my vote on Aere until I get some sort of response and I'd like to hear other players opinions on Aere besides just Prims.

[Psych]

377.

so upon further review

this part of this post bothers me a lot. Yes it's good to have a certain level of disbelief, but "everyone is scummy" is very suspect. The post after this is terrible too because it feels like you're trying to detract blame

I really do not like this kind of post (there are a bunch of these). Yeah, he could be scum. At this point, anyone could be. But this seems like too much of a leap in logic. Lynching someone D1 over a PGO claim is stupid, since that's what this is boiling down to. You seem way too focused on this, as well. It rings bad with me.

I'll hold my vote for now because I don't like what Psych is doing (and what he isn't, I guess), but I think Elie is bad too.

blame from who? also if you aren't confirmed or seeming particularly town, you're scummy by default. sorry, but that's how it works. right now I'd say eclipse and prims are leaning town for me, and maybe cam and snike. Kay is either trying too hard scum or ineffectual town. everyone else is varying degrees with Aere and BBM and Elieson and you leading the pack

also these are bad reasons because wow I'm playing better than you rein. what exactly am I not doing? and second, there's much mmore of a reason to vote for Elieson than there is for me.

[BBM]

You were voting Navo last game so I'm not sure why you would need to ask this.

It was confusing because you used "trying to take advantage of the wagon" in the opposite way when talking about Snike's reaction, as he did basically the opposite thing of Manix.

BTW, another reason why I don't like Elie that I left out earlier- his reason behind thinking Prims is scum is entirely based on his claim, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Prims's other actions in the thread.

[CT075]

Wait. Hold the phone. Manix, did you just say stop tring to end RVS?

where

[Prims]

what are you talking about I'm voting Psych already

o

I'm not paying attention then ignore me

I don't agree Psych is scum for finding everybody scummy when at the start of the game, everybody could be scum. It's that same as saying everybody is null or w/e. Can't tell what his beef with Aere actually is though.

RE: Shinori: I'm talking about you taking advantage of pluto's wagon by hard defending him and it was basically the exact same thing.

[BBM]

Gut feeling, and it kinda seems like you're looking a bit too hard for reasons to call people scummy. I mean, you seem to be suspicious of nearly everyone.

I would hardly call thinking 2 people (Elieson + you) are scummy is nearly everyone. I'm also annoyed that you basically handwaved everything said against you and didn't really respond to it at all. I was just about to switch to Elieson but I think I'll stay here.

[Shinori]

o

I'm not paying attention then ignore me

I don't agree Psych is scum for finding everybody scummy when at the start of the game, everybody could be scum. It's that same as saying everybody is null or w/e. Can't tell what his beef with Aere actually is though.

RE: Shinori: I'm talking about you taking advantage of pluto's wagon by hard defending him and it was basically the exact same thing.

Ah, thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense.

[BBM]

Also, Psych, why do you find me scummy? You've put me in your list of scumreads a couple times now but haven't really said why.

[Snike]

Snike pressing BBM over questioning others then ignoring my post which was 99% questioning (basically necessary to make sense out of anything rn) is interesting enough for a gut read. Consider that I'm a much less likely mislynch than a theoretical town!BBM at this point. Also Snike pls explain why Kay's BBM vote was enough to make her worse, unless you seriously went "oh shit somebody is voting the same person as I am".

I guess the thing here is that I forgot the word 'copious'. BBM's d1 content this time around strikes me as almost super jumpy/ inquisitive, with the bulk of his content being questions. Especially compared to his showing recently, it strikes me as 'off'. Some of his other content, on the other hand, reads fine, so I'm really unsure on him right now.

As for Kay, well, she's only been posting in defense up until and including the vote on BBM, which wasn't explained until later, with poor justification IMO. The fact that it was non sequitor to what she was saying at the time struck me as suspicious as well, in a way that's hard to put into words. Call it gut.

I'm going to look at the Eliewagon right now, since that's a thing apparently.

[Elieson]

Did you read my list bbm? Did you read the thing after it? The part where I said the rest of my reads, include scum?

I still don't have home internet. I can pay it (finally) tomorrow, and have an actual computer to do this on. However, I'm pretty sure that my read are allowed. For instance, I didn't say anything against you. Does that mean I can't possibly have an opinion of you?

This jumpiness to conclusions in general is why I think you are scummy. You are flipping the panic switch quite early, when it's not even necessary. Look. All I did is put you on a list, and you asked me 2 questions almost instantly.

---

Kay, incorrect. I said town, scum, and neutral intentionally. I don't know how many scum there are, and I think it's foolish to just say everything I think regarding reads all at once.

---

Cam, prims quoted it. Manix just called me out for calling him out on it.

---

I'm certain that my suspicion on Prims was not based on his claim. I called it out, learned from the reactions, and based my opinions and reads on them. I never thought prims actually was scum from the moment he claimed. But 10+ pages of posts happened. And reads developed.

[Grace]

Okay I'm having a hard time trying to process what is happening here (like, legit)

All I'm getting right now is that Elie is making my head hurt. Something about his posts feel forced to me.

[BBM]

Elieson, I asked you two questions instantly because you listed people as scum whom you hadn't said a single thing about, not because I was one of those people. Sure, you're allowed to have reads on people you haven't said anything about, but then you back that up with why you have those reads, instead of just stating your reads. And you don't need to make a huge ISO post to explain a scumread either- plenty of other people in the game have made cases so far, and not a single one of them has made an ISO post yet. Also, I read the end, but I thought you made a typo, because if you had more scumreads, why wouldn't you list them all together instead of just saying a couple of them and omitting others? How is outing all your scumreads "foolish"? It just gives the people who are actually town less time to prepare a defence.

[Aere]

Can't tell what his beef with Aere actually is though.

Good, because I can't either and I'm still confused. Everything Psych does is confusing me.

I agree with Rapier that BBM looks fine for his defense on Shinori. Kirsche is metagaming, and while it may seem valid here, I myself would jump to Shinori's drunken defense. Typos are NOT scummy, and it's happened to me before (claiming iris/eclipse in Paper's last game) so I understand.

Manix is being typical gut-lead Manix, Elie is grasping for straws (#319 and that vague list #306) , I'd rather not lynch Prims today, we'll have time to think about PGO later... Elie is my strongest feel so ##Vote: Elieson though I am thinking he's playing like he plays D1 a lot

[Elieson]

Ok fine.

Prims, Kay, BBM, Psych, Manix.

Good thing they all know that I suspect them now.

I guess they can change their act, and those who I didn't list as scum have nothing to worry about from me.

[Grace]

Cool. Going to elaborate as to why?

You don't seem to happy about revealing your scum reads.

[CT075]

Cam, prims quoted it. Manix just called me out for calling him out on it.

show me

please

ISOing both manix and prims shows me nothing of the sort

[Shinori]

Elie is my strongest feel so ##Vote: Elieson though I am thinking he's playing like he plays D1 a lot

First off you ignored me, go back and read my post and answer me pl0X.

Second off, do you think Elieson is scum? You said he is your strongest feel yet you are saying you think he's playing like he normally plays day 1. Does that mean you think he's playing as his normal town meta?

@Cam: Manix did say at one point in time something involving telling elieson to stop ending rvs like that or something. I don't remember the exact words.

[Grace]

First off: Elie please stop doing that (breaking RVS) it's actually legit annoying and messes up everyone's scumdars (and I'm fairly sure you have been lynched for it before)

This is what you might be looking for.

[Snike]

I think the eliewagon isn't really a good wagon, to be honest. His pgo lynch idea is really foolish, yes, and his explanation's weak, yes, but that does not a lynch make. Furthermore, examining the wagon, we have for reasoning:

Iris- Concerned about whether or not the pgo thing was to break rvs

Manix- concerned initially about scumhunting methods and contribution, also angry about elieson breaking rvs and his 'opportunism' (the vote on him, I think? Manix help a brother out)

Rapier- concerned with how Elieson's more confusing than Evangelion (IMPOSSIBRU), and how he (elie) acts like he has no opinions.

Cam- Gut(?)

Aere - Elieson is grasping for straws / leading gut suspicion

If any of these seem unfair let me know, I'm not intentionally trying to misrep the arguments in my eyes.

Iris's and Manix's reasonings are fair enough, with the former being a bit outdated, but iris has the disadvantage of being ill, so it's acceptable. Manix, on the other hand atm, seems to be wavering a bit, so I'm not going to address his vote here.

I am not sure what to think of cam, as on one hand he's throwing around terms like no tomorrow, but on the other hand, he's not really providing much reasoning besides gut.

My issues really arise with Rapier and Aere. The former I think is misrepresenting Elieson as being like a peanut gallery, in the sense that he doesn't give relevant opinions on people. Which strikes me as odd, seeing as Elie was pushing a Prims lynch. If anything, waffling would've been a better term to describe elie when he was backing off of Prims, not No Opinions.

With aere, I feel like grasping at straws is a filler excuse to jump on the wagon. I don't really see how 319 is grasping at straws, if only because it's bad logic for the vote, but nothing grabbed out of thin air. As for 306, it came out of the blue, yes, but how can you dismiss it as straw-grasping? It doesn't feel good to me, to sum things up.

tl;dr: I don't feel good about the elie bandwagon.

Slightly related: Elieson, what were you pondering? That hasn't really been brought up since you mentioned it, so if you could elaborate on that, it would be nice.

[Aere]

Why did the post above sound so defensive in regards to psych if you see his reasoning as bad reasoning to vote you? No one else was on you at all. No one was even talking about you, where did this come from? Were you stating this because you think Psych is scum? I'd like to hear that case because I don't see it at all.

Well, it wasn't defensive... so yeah. Everything I've said in regards to Psych has just been me being confused because he doesn't make sense.

Elie tends to get votes on him D1 because he sounds scummy. This does not excuse him from sounding scummy, however. I was merely making note of his playstyle (which seems to be the same no matter his alignment anyway).

[Aere]

I would not call my feelings towards Elie based on gut.

With aere, I feel like grasping at straws is a filler excuse to jump on the wagon. I don't really see how 319 is grasping at straws, if only because it's bad logic for the vote, but nothing grabbed out of thin air. As for 306, it came out of the blue, yes, but how can you dismiss it as straw-grasping? It doesn't feel good to me, to sum things up.

I called both of those posts straw grabbing because 319 felt like an attempt to get the attention off of himself and push it onto his vote, rather than actually voting for a scumread. 306 felt like an excuse to say "hey I've posted reads let's not focus on me".

[Grace]

Manix- concerned initially about scumhunting methods and contribution, also angry about elieson breaking rvs and his 'opportunism' (the vote on him, I think? Manix help a brother out)

That's part of the reason. He voted me because I called him out on his methods wrt to RVS (ie intentionally being scummy to push stuff.) And for no other explained reason. Kinda opportunistic, I would think.

Elie's further actions haven't done a lot to convince me otherwise (not liking outing scumreads, for example (and since when is outing a scumread a bad thing?)), which is why I haven't moved my vote.

Manix, on the other hand atm, seems to be wavering a bit, so I'm not going to address his vote here.

Wavering how? Curious as to why you say this.

[Snike]

I would not call my feelings towards Elie based on gut.

I called both of those posts straw grabbing because 319 felt like an attempt to get the attention off of himself and push it onto his vote, rather than actually voting for a scumread. 306 felt like an excuse to say "hey I've posted reads let's not focus on me".

First of all, sorry about the misunderstanding wrt what I interpreted as gut feeling.

My definition of straw-grabbing must be outdated in that case. I disagree with you on those points, as I don't really see any intentional push onto other players, but I respect your opinion.

I stand by my Rapier opinion, though.

@ Manix: You recent posts, starting with the one that has Elie giving you a headache, give me the impression that you're rethinking the vote. The 'cooler' tone towards him in #342 sort of supports this. At least, in my eyes, it does.