Just call me AL Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Depends on what you want to use Lucina for. Simply from Chrom's classes she has access to Pavise, Aegis, Luna, and Aether, all of which benefit from Rightful King. I don't recall Chrom having access to any part of the Armor Knight class family except Great Knight. Edited February 20, 2013 by Little Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Lucina only has Aegis access if you pair with Maribelle or Olivia. She'll have Pavise access too if you pair with Avatar (obviously), Sumia, or Sully. Still, she can combine Rightful King with Aether which is a powerful combination all on its own. Combined with whatever else you have access to (Astra, Luna, Ignis, Aegis, or Pavise) and you're already getting a lot of mileage out of Rightful King. Inigo is also able to combine Rightful King, Sol, and Astra and he has high skill growth, so he has some seriously high activation rates. I moved up Charm, added Underdog because I forgot about it, and did some shuffling of some of the Rally skills but somewhat unconvincingly. I should probably put Rally Movement elsewhere but I want more discussion about it. Mid tier is pretty messy with a lot of skills of more-or-less equal use, plus the skills I mentioned before with extremely useful but also very situational use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Uhhh, why was Charm moved up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Even though it's such a minor boost it works as filler for most of the game with no real conditions other than being near a plot mandatory character who is pretty much forced to learn it. I might just simply move it to just above Demoiselle, because I'm pretty sure I moved it too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSentinel Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I don't recall Chrom having access to any part of the Armor Knight class family except Great Knight. Yeah, forgot cause I have ChromxSumia on my file. But Aegis, Luna, and Aether are more than enough for Rightful King to be very useful on Chrom. Edited February 20, 2013 by SilentSentinel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 That tier list is missing Counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Aaahh I swear I had it in there. It was even on my mind at the time. Anyway, I dumped it in the middle of mid tier for now, but it is one of those skills that needs some serious discussion because of its weirdness. Does the outrageous effect outweigh the cons of 1. needing to get hit for lots of damage to return lots of damage and 2. kills with counter deprive you of exp? I'm too tired to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'd put it on the bottom of mid or in low tier myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkymeet Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 How well does CounterSol work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Bottom tier it can only activate a close range. So mages and archers are unaffected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'd move Underdog up. I mean, it's obviously a massively lower priority to pass down from Donnel than Aptitude so Donnel will be the only one who ever uses it, but at the same time it's a free +15 Evasion most of the time (especially with how often second seals are resetting your level). Unless of course people are considering the extra 5 levels in Villager to not be worth it, which I could understand. Either way I'd expect it to be in Low at least, considering Prescience is in Low and that's only going to affect a very, very small number of combats in any given battle, whereas Underdog could be affecting every one. (And I know Lunatic+ ignores Evasion but the list specifies it's not for Lunatic+ and what the hell are you doing using Donnel on Lunatic+ anyway) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 How well does CounterSol work? Counter isn't a hit, so it won't trigger Sol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinderSkye Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Is anyone else fond of Sol + Vengeance? They're an easy combination to get off of any two parents, and the two skills counterbalance each other constantly. I do extra damage, I get the health back, zig-zag all the live-long day. I have it on my Laurent, it's fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Is anyone else fond of Sol + Vengeance? They're an easy combination to get off of any two parents, and the two skills counterbalance each other constantly. I do extra damage, I get the health back, zig-zag all the live-long day. I have it on my Laurent, it's fun. I'd actually think this is a rare case of skills hurting each other. I mean it's still better than nothing; but healing would reduce the effectiveness of Vengeance significantly. Now, Vigilance + Vengeance is another thing entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinderSkye Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 As my skill goes up, it may change, but I've scored a fair amount of kills off of throwing low-def Laurent by himself into a corner and letting the RNG work out in my favor. It's like a somewhat more unreliable Nosferatu but you get to keep using your staves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Just nitpicking here. Lucina only has Aegis access if you pair with Maribelle or Olivia.Isn't Aegis a Paladin skill? Which she can get anyways because of Chrom? She'll have Pavise access too if you pair with Avatar (obviously), Sumia, or Sully.Last I checked, Sully doesn't pass the Armor Knight class family down to Lucina despite Kjelle starting off as an Armor Knight herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 You misread. Lucina can pick up Aegis but not Pavise if she marries Maribelle or Olivia or apparently Sully because that is a mistake on my part. She picks up both by pairing with Sumia or Avatar F. Also any updates will be later in the day, I have some studio tours I am attending today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryptonite Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Why is Discipline so high? It's easy to get weapon ranks in this game unless you're Donny starting with probably a D/E in your promoted class or are a Great Knight, or promote to use staves. Most of those can't even use the skill or don't want to go through the Cavalier class anyways. >_> And there are much better skills to pass down too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Lucina only has Aegis access if you pair with Maribelle or Olivia. Uh, what? Chrom gets Aegis from one of his reclass sets... which gives her the Paladin class by default, doesn't it? I mean Chrom IS her father no matter what. Edit: Ninja'd. Disregard. Edited February 20, 2013 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Why is Discipline so high? It's easy to get weapon ranks in this game unless you're Donny starting with probably a D/E in your promoted class or are a Great Knight, or promote to use staves. Most of those can't even use the skill or don't want to go through the Cavalier class anyways. >_> And there are much better skills to pass down too. It seems like there's a higher emphasis on efficiency in the tier list than actual throughput effectiveness. Might be best to have a "mid-game" list and an "end-game" list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 20, 2013 Author Share Posted February 20, 2013 A couple of things to consider: 1. Consider skill combinations. (Rainbow Cry+Love Cry) 2. Don't restrict just the skill because of who can get it. (Good Growths:Donny.) 3. Don't just consider postgame. Think about the whole value of the skill. 4. Likewise, don't make a skill bottom tier just because you get it late. (Limit Breaker.) 5. This tier list is for hard mode. Sorry is till haven't updated the op, but keep these in mind. I noticed a couple of people making a skill less valuable becuse only a few units get it. That wasn't my intent. Furthermore, there are spotpass characters with skills such as aptitude and the like. Please keep this in mind. I'm aiming to update the list tomorrow/Friday based on my experience and debates that have already occurred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CinderSkye Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I think Discipline is very useful before the Golden Gaffe, and not at all afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Discipline can be useful after golden gaffe. It just looking at where it is that's just way to high. You really only need it till you get a c rank in any weapon. And then it just takes so little time. Being above ignis, sol, and Astra is completely nonsensical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) As I said several months ago I still think Miracle should go near the bottom apart from set ups involving the Niddhog bow it's an unreliable skill that only activates in the very situations you want to avoid in the first place. I think Focus should go higher. The skill is active even when paired up with another character, while you have to forgo support bonuses from anyone but the Pair-Up partner(Which makes it slightly worse than Gamble) the 10% extra critical is worth a fair bit more than Skill+2. Though I think Concentration and Gamble should probably go above worthless into atleast Bad. Edited February 21, 2013 by arvilino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Why exactly is Beastbane so high? Only two (possibly 3) units can take advantage of it, but my biggest concern is that it only works if you lock yourself to a permanently 1-range unit. Characters aside, it does jack squat against EP Dark Knights, Javelin and Hand Axe (and their brethren) type weapons, Magic Weapory, and Bows. I would shove it around the middle of Mid tier. It's just not gonna be used as often as you think because it simply doesn't even work UNLESS YOU ARE TAGUEL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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