This is something all of you need to see.

[Excellen Browning]

I call this thread much ado about nothing if thread starter over there doesn't get over his supposedly morally superior self and give a me real reason to not use the word faggot, or other originally derogatory words for homosexual (but which have long since lost their original meaning and have become cliché) at least in his presence.

[Chocolate Kitty]

But a faggot isn't a cigarette. The site checks for the use of the word faggot.

Cool. Yeah. You also have never been called a faggot, I presume.

Okay, I get that not everyone understands why words are taken so seriously. Let me put it into context.

What if I were to substitute faggot and dyke with nigger and chink? Cunt and retard? I'd be treated much more negatively than if I were to say faggot.

I've been called a faggot and a nigger, it really doesn't affect me.

The words have as much worth as you put on them. If you say it doesn't bother you, then it doesn't.

Since I'm black, I can go into the nigger situation a bit more in depth, because it doesn't even mean what it used to mean. In this day and age, it's more or less a slang similar to "brother". Or, even, just a slang for your stereotypical black person. Some people get offended by nigger, Idk why, unless it's actively being used negatively.

Dyke and faggot basically mean the same thing in your context iirc, dyke is just for females.

Hey, I'm chinese too, and chink doesn't bother me.

Cunt is a vagina. :/

Retard is a touchy subject for some, and less for others(I'm in the less department, so ask someone else)

Hopefully this helps you out in the long run, or you can get upset and hate me, your choice.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Kitty of Time

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Cunt is a slang for a vagina but also used negatively against women. You don't go around calling a woman a vagina.

[Chocolate Kitty]

Cunt is a slang for a vagina but also used negatively against women. You don't go around calling a woman a vagina.

So is dick, where is your point?

[frat_tastic]

I call this thread much ado about nothing if thread starter over there doesn't get over his supposedly morally superior self and give a me real reason to not use the word faggot, or other originally derogatory words for homosexual (but which have long since lost their original meaning and have become cliché) at least in his presence.

I'm not the topic starter, but I can at least give you the reasoning I use.

The thing is, those words and phrases haven't lost their meaning, or they have taken on a new just as negative meaning. A lot of it is the mindset behind the words being used. Yeah, I know that there are a lot of people who say "no homo" or "that's so gay" who have no bad intentions behind it. There are plenty of people who use those phrases without ever meaning to hurt someone else.

When you use those phrases though you are, even without intent, implying something about being gay. By saying "that's so gay" about something stupid or lame or whatever, you are implying that gay means the same thing as those words- stupid, lame and whatever else. It also stems from the fact that people often consider gay to be an insult, even if it is used as just joking around and as a mild insult. If gay is considered an insult, or less desirable, how do you think that would make someone who is gay feel? It would probably make them feel much worse about themselves, that people consider a core part of their identity as laughable and undesirable in any way (and I don't mean desirable in a romantic/sexual sense).

I don't go flying off the handle when I hear people say stuff like this, but I do like to point out sometimes when people use this kind of language that they just need to think about the things that they say because it affects other people in ways that they might not think about. This is the reasoning I use when I try to explain to people how words and phrases like the ones we've been discussing should be avoided if they can be, because even if there's no ill-intent behind them they can be derogatory and hurtful to others.

[Excellen Browning]

I'm not the topic starter, but I can at least give you the reasoning I use.

The thing is, those words and phrases haven't lost their meaning, or they have taken on a new just as negative meaning. A lot of it is the mindset behind the words being used. Yeah, I know that there are a lot of people who say "no homo" or "that's so gay" who have no bad intentions behind it. There are plenty of people who use those phrases without ever meaning to hurt someone else.

When you use those phrases though you are, even without intent, implying something about being gay. By saying "that's so gay" about something stupid or lame or whatever, you are implying that gay means the same thing as those words- stupid, lame and whatever else. It also stems from the fact that people often consider gay to be an insult, even if it is used as just joking around and as a mild insult. If gay is considered an insult, or less desirable, how do you think that would make someone who is gay feel? It would probably make them feel much worse about themselves, that people consider a core part of their identity as laughable and undesirable in any way (and I don't mean desirable in a romantic/sexual sense).

I don't go flying off the handle when I hear people say stuff like this, but I do like to point out sometimes when people use this kind of language that they just need to think about the things that they say because it affects other people in ways that they might not think about. This is the reasoning I use when I try to explain to people how words and phrases like the ones we've been discussing should be avoided if they can be, because even if there's no ill-intent behind them they can be derogatory and hurtful to others.

False, false aaaaaand false. Try harder.

[frat_tastic]

False, false aaaaaand false. Try harder.

Do you have anything more to add? I mean what you have is pretty convincing already, but just a little more evidence and I think I'd see your point.

[Excellen Browning]

Do you have anything more to add? I mean what you have is pretty convincing already, but just a little more evidence and I think I'd see your point.

You're basically forgetting you're dealing with actual human beings with a sense of self worth amongst others. AKA you're doing the fundamentals fundamentally wrong and I've lost every interest in further discussing this with you. Get on my level.

[frat_tastic]

You're basically forgetting you're dealing with actual human beings with a sense of self worth amongst others. AKA you're doing the fundamentals fundamentally wrong and I've lost every interest in further discussing this with you. Get on my level.

I don't know what you're getting at. What "fundamentals" am I getting wrong here? I'm also not getting what you mean when you say I'm dealing with people who have a sense of self-worth (I get what that means, but I don't see how it makes what I've said wrong).

[Rehab]

"Nigger" as used in the white community is the most hateful term I can think of, perhaps along with "cunt," mostly because of the caution and racial links it has. Note how it has evolved over the decades in the African American community to be used in multiple manners.

At first I thought that was A North American thing, but my Canadian family (group of guys) has confirmed they call each other dumb cunts all the time and nobody gets punched. I didn't actually observe that happen, though, and it's possible they got it from an English friend in the first place, at the least.

Louis CK has claimed even calling somebody a faggot as a negative thing didn't used to mean gay, and more than one comment has concurred, implying it was used to just mean a nagging jackass, but that does happen to be played for laughs, so I guess it's not the sort of thing I'd cite in a bibliography for an essay on the subject but yeh

I happen to know some gay people who are pretty offensive themselves use all these words/phrases routinely, such that I'd probably need to see somebody saying it in a way that seems really obviously harsh in order for me to get mad about hearing something like "no homo," or even "faggot," myself. I almost feel sorry for people who've basically been manipulated into taking out their anger on something that has nothing to do with the root of their problems, though it's probably not going to go away without at least some confrontations taking place, to be sure.

Disclaimer: after I had a curiously uneventful "mite b bi-curious" talk w/parents, my mom at a later date told me in the middle of a heated argument to "stop talking like a queer," (?) which is p much the extent of any questionable speech I have received. I won that argument, iirc

Edited September 28, 2012 by Rehab

[Helios]

I feel like you can pull something up like this about every faction of society. I'm not saying it's right, but fact of the matter is people use these "slang" words without the intention of actually offending the certain faction; it's just something society has deemed "normal" and so people just go along with it because it's "acceptable". I used to say "no homo" a lot in the past, but not to offend homosexuals in any way, but to get laughs out of people (I usually said it to girls I bumped into at parties, to which they'd always reply "but we're girls...it's not homo..." and then my guy friends would start cracking up). I quit using it though, and I'm trying to quit instinctively saying "that's gay" or "quit being a fag", at least for the sake of professionalism, and also because I don't actually want to offend anyone, just want to get some chuckles out of people and lighten up their mood.

[Dark Sage]

Implying that homosexual love is the negative.

No he wasn't, stop trying to interpret things in the worst possible way.

I can admit that phrases like "no homo" or "that's so gay" and throwing around words like faggot could be seen in a derogatory fashion towards homosexuals but most of the time its not. They're just words people throw around and it helps to look at how they're being used in context before getting worked up about it.

So is dick, where is your point?

Wrong.

Dick is slang for penis

Edited September 28, 2012 by Tyrant Sage

[Chocolate Kitty]

Wrong.

Dick is slang for penis

I was going with

Cunt -> Slang for vagina -> term used to insult women

Dick -> Slang for penis -> term used to insult men

but i digress

[Rewjeo]

No he wasn't, stop trying to interpret things in the worst possible way.

I don't think the point is that there is actually malicious intent behind people using these words, but that plenty of people might be offended. It's not like you can't come up with other words to say that are not offensive. You don't actually gain anything out of saying "that's gay" instead of "that's stupid."

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I call this thread much ado about nothing if thread starter over there doesn't get over his supposedly morally superior self and give a me real reason to not use the word faggot, or other originally derogatory words for homosexual (but which have long since lost their original meaning and have become cliché) at least in his presence.

"Morally Superior"? Oh, that's rich.

[Esau of Isaac]

So... when someone says "no homo", he's denying his friends' ability to determine whether he's actually gay or not, which are probably the same people who're the first to get to know about it everytime he bangs another girl?

In the same sense that saying "no offense" is denying someone's ability to tell whether the person is trying to be offensive.

It's a clarifying statement. If you somehow consider that insensitive towards someone that's not even there I don't really know how to debate that.

I really think that this clarification is unnecessary most of the time.

Right. It's meant to be sarcastic more often than not.

Cool. Yeah. You also have never been called a faggot, I presume.

Okay, I get that not everyone understands why words are taken so seriously. Let me put it into context.

What if I were to substitute faggot and dyke with nigger and chink? Cunt and retard? I'd be treated much more negatively than if I were to say faggot.

Right. Because people similar to yourself said in the past that these were unacceptable to use, and they were essentially banned in common parlance. They didn't alter, and their meaning didn't soften with time.

Edit: At least, again, in specific communities. It is entirely acceptable in many African American communities to use the word nigger as an affectionate term.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Esau of Isaac

[Baldrick]

I call this thread much ado about nothing if thread starter over there doesn't get over his supposedly morally superior self and give a me real reason to not use the word faggot, or other originally derogatory words for homosexual (but which have long since lost their original meaning and have become cliché) at least in his presence.

You need to watch the South Park episode, "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson"

Edited September 29, 2012 by Minor Baldo

[Ansem]

Edit: At least, again, in specific communities. It is entirely acceptable in many African American communities to use the word nigger as an affectionate term.

It would be very interesting to see gay people refer to each other as faggots.

[Rehab]

They do

Some of them

do

a lot

It can be the most common word in some of their vocabularies

Please believe me

Please believe me

Edited September 29, 2012 by Rehab

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I believe you. It doesn't make it right.

Pretty sure gay people don't use the word faggot more than stupid straight people, though.

[Original Alear]

Well, I can't honor people trying to criminalize words (speech, yes, words, no) but I can certainly accept people requesting, even demanding, restraint. So, I'll consider this forum a place to be more mindful about these words, in part because I feel like you've conducted yourself pretty politely in the past (if you typically posted kinda jerky stuff I'd probably ignore you). I do think you could stand to give a bit less of a shit for some of these words, but, that certainly goes for me as well about other, less important stuff.

I'm not going to bother policing others, here or elsewhere, unless I think the usage of the words really goes along with some kind of dislike. I'm certainly not going to police people who are supposedly worried about being gay because they might be afraid of how that would affect how others treat them (as opposed to feeling it is bad for anyone to be gay).

Also I definitely know some gay people who use these words...more than most people, though, not so much. I do remember one of my friends (not gay) got annoyed at me once for using it...kind of annoyed me given how he's much more likely to tend towards saying shitty things about other people, including his friends, sometimes seriously.

Oh and as for cunt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E_7q4hzWFc

(Not a statement about word usage, just...I love this scene, and this episode)

Edited September 29, 2012 by L1049

[Esau of Isaac]

I believe you. It doesn't make it right.

Pretty sure gay people don't use the word faggot more than stupid straight people, though.

Why would they use it any less since its use in modern times rarely has anything to do with actual homosexuality?

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Why would they use it any less since its use in modern times rarely has anything to do with actual homosexuality?

How so? The only use of the word faggot I know of is referring to a homosexual person.

[Esau of Isaac]

How so? The only use of the word faggot I know of is referring to a homosexual person.

Then you should be happy to be informed that the word is rarely used specifically as an insult towards homosexuals, instead being a generally uncouth word meaning someone is an annoyance or fool.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Esau of Isaac

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Yet historically it refers to homosexuals, thus, by nature, referring to someone as an annoyance or fool = referring to them as gay = gay is bad.