The Results of Bullying

[Shin]

Bullying is a horrible thing, but a lot of it is the reaction. The worse you react, the bigger kick they get out of it. There's no doubt that bullying is entirely their fault but it's possible to minimize the impact by the way you handle it. Understandably, that can be very difficult and often it's almost too hurtful to deal with logically. Bullying might have had some evolutionary role in the past, but it's not needed at all.

I'm not supporting the bullies in anyway, they're entirely wrong for doing it, but it's up to the victim to do what they can about it - the bullies aren't going to stop if nothing changes. My deepest sympathies to those who have taken their own lives or have been hurt otherwise by bullying. To be driven to the point of suicide or to suffer deep psychological torture, that's something nobody deserves.

[MacLovin]

All I had to do was scare the shit out of them with martial arts, and breaking a wooden playground.

This was in a private school.

Well, my condolences to those who suffer.

[Original Alear]

I think the discussion about bullying victims being unsociable/weak....maybe that's sometimes true, but from what I remember, the cruelty of children was generally a bit more simple than that. Just going after a kid for sticking out, even if it had nothing to do with their personality. Could be something as a weird laugh.

Guess it depends on the situation though.

[Snowy_One]

So sad.

I was bullied as well via the internet. I don't want to go into details in this post, but most people who know me only need to ask to hear the full story. As a result I went from being a confident man with a job and his life ahead of him into a shattered man who has trouble speaking to people. I've become defensive, stubborn, and self-depreciating. I wish I could have taken it all back, go back in time to that day and not make the stupid choice I did, but I can't. I will admit, I do not have it as bad as some people in this topic or as the girl in the video did, but I too have felt the sting, and it has left its mark on me.

[Kiriane]

If it were that bad, I'd be going for a restraining order, and getting the very-high-ups in the school involved. She attempts to bug you once you're in a different school, you get her arrested.

The restraining order would most probably have been the next step up, yes, and we did get the higher ups in the school involved, yes. However, as you can see from certain other cases (Crash's for example) that's not always going to work. Not in all schools and all education systems.

Yeah, I used the threat of violence quite a bit myself, or at least the cultivated atmosphere of "you do not want to mess with this person". Notably: verbally facing off with teachers followed by total and utter apparent disregard for them and their lessons, carrying a penknife around, martial arts background which I was happy to talk about, apparent and blatant disregard for everyone else's feelings. (No, I didn't actually disregard them or the teachers. Most of the time. Just made it look like I did.) Yes, I did carry a penknife around. I'm told I was downright scary, tilting my chair back while picking at my fingernails with it. Appearances are everything, considering it was broken and blunt - I had trouble even cutting paper with the thing - and I kept it in my pencil case rather than on my person. Preventive measures are cool.

In the case of the person I was talking about, she didn't do a thing about it, just ignored it and hoped it would go away, and/or she may have reacted in the expected way. Like, I dunno, being sad or something. I don't like dealing with this kind of situation after the fact - prevention is better than cure and all that - but it has to be done sometimes, and that was just completely the wrong reaction. It allows the situation to escalate. Usually just having a public showdown or baiting a fight where a teacher can see it is good enough to warn them off escalation; stopping or reversing the situation is a bit more complex than that.

I'm not playing devil's advocate. Bullying is wrong. It often happens completely arbitrarily. And it's wrong. But part of it is definitely the bullies picking on someone they perceive to be an easy and satisfying target, and the target not proving them wrong. Do I think we should come at the issue from the POV of stopping the bullies from doing their thing, absolutely. But I'm also saying that that's not the only avenue for stopping - or reducing - bullying.

Bolded for emphasis on important points.

[Espinosa]

Yes, bullying is a problem, but I think both sides should change. Learning to stand up for yourself and fighting back appropriately are useful later in life. So is not being a shithead, but getting people to listen to you when you tell them that they're being assholes in a bad way is an endeavor unto itself.

I'd say fighting stops being a necessity around late teens or so. Depends on the circumstances though.

[eclipse]

I'd say fighting stops being a necessity around late teens or so. Depends on the circumstances though.

"Fighting back appropriately" uses fists in the scenario where you're cornered and they're intent on beating you up. Otherwise, it's stuff like getting school administration (and higher) involved, getting all affected parents dragged into it, possibly invoking the legal system (child porn laws are a double-edged sword, but if they'll get people to leave you alone, then I'd gladly leverage them), etc.

EDIT: About that article that was linked. . .I must go to school in upside-down land. Part of the reason why the kids in elementary school picked on me was because of my brain, and by high school, the stratification was more along the lines of whether you were a druggie or not.

Edited October 14, 2012 by eclipse

[Gold Vanguard]

1350239476[/url]' post='2156498']

"Fighting back appropriately" uses fists in the scenario where you're cornered and they're intent on beating you up. Otherwise, it's stuff like getting school administration (and higher) involved, getting all affected parents dragged into it, possibly invoking the legal system (child porn laws are a double-edged sword, but if they'll get people to leave you alone, then I'd gladly leverage them), etc.

EDIT: About that article that was linked. . .I must go to school in upside-down land. Part of the reason why the kids in elementary school picked on me was because of my brain, and by high school, the stratification was more along the lines of whether you were a druggie or not.

Or because there just jealous of you.

[Espinosa]

Life kinda is all about bullying, and much communication with all the unfair actions involved unfolds directly connected to power relations between people. I mean, I can understand that people use the term to refer strictly to the school issue, but it's essentially the same desires in people that provide an extension of this phenomenon to adult life where you will constantly feel mistreated, abused and disrespected in way or another, just the extent differs (and the extent to which you care or notice).

[Lord Raven]

It's possible she didn't do any of this because of trust issues and the fact that she has issues trusting anyone and everyone... Pretty sad, although it raises the question as to why the parent didn't respond accordingly to the "drinking bleach" part.

[Gold Vanguard]

1350240375[/url]' post='2156511']

It's possible she didn't do any of this because of trust issues and the fact that she has issues trusting anyone and everyone... Pretty sad, although it raises the question as to why the parent didn't respond accordingly to the "drinking bleach" part.

Maybe they didn't care at the time.

[I.M. Gei]

I don't think anyone deserves to have a topless picture of her taken without her consent and uploaded to the internet or her classmates torturing her for it. Wow. RIP.

[Praetoriat]

I could never quite understand what feature or personality trait it is that turns certain people, who have seemingly nothing in common with each other, into pariahs. Is it purely accidental, being in the wrong place when people are in the wrong mood, and snowballing from there? And if something makes it more likely for one to be bullied, then what is it - being meek, or on the contrary arrogant, or indifferent?

In my experience in school it was always a combination of those things, wrong place, wrong time et cetera. I remembered in 5th grade my parents had just split and I was a 'volatile' child, I was angry, hurt and somewhat alone feeling. I remember someone making a joke about me and I yelled back some god-awful retort, everyone laughed, and social stigma of varying levels never really left me.

That combined with me reading the news way to much at the age of 12 sort of turned me into an intrivert among people I don't know well making it difficult for me to make good friends. I am better know but, I do wish someone had taken some time to hinestly help me instead of having me on the back burner so to speak.

But my struggle is absouletely nothing like hers. She was manipulated and then tortured for making a mistake that isn't really all that suprising. Social pressure and stigma are so powerful in current western civilization that it isn't even funny. Even in adult life it still effects us even if with a more subtle flow.

I remember that in my freshman year that kids used to really beat up (not literally) on this kid becausehe was really socially akward and had very little grasp of social cues. But he tried. He tried really Hard. And at about christmas I told them to lay off, it didn't really do anything as they merely shifted there oh so divine judgment to me but I remember the Kid told me thank you and that even today while we aren't friends we are acquantinces so to speak.

[Pride]

I just want to start off by saying that girl

was a goddamn fool

Most of this case was caused by her own bad luck and bad decisions, and in life whenever those two things coincide things go to shit. Although the bullies in her life are definitely to blame for pushing her over the edge, she sure as hell put herself there.

Anyway, as for bullying itself, it is not a "problem". Calling something a "problem" implies it can be worked on, or ultimately has a solution. Bullying is just a reflection of a human being's natural desire to power. Whatever the reason behind it, all bullies do what they do to feel good about themselves. Feeling socially insecure? Put down another guy to the point he's so low on the social order that you can only go up! Having problems at home where you're abused or feel unloved? Show those other kids how the authority figure in your life handles you! Do you just get a kick out of putting people down? Don't you want to be accepted by your friends who put people down? The list of reasoning goes on. And the people who are prime targets for this are just people who have an opening to exploit. Something about them to demean. Anxiety, abnormal preferences, physical and mental setbacks etc. It is a very easy to understand phenomenon, and ultimately one that will not go away. It is certainly not something we want to happen to us, or to our children, as the subjects of bullying tend to come out scarred, in ways both physically and mentally, but you know what you can do about it?

Nothing.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Pride

[Ein]

Anyway, as for bullying itself, it is not a "problem". Calling something a "problem" implies it can be worked on, or ultimately has a solution. Bullying is just a reflection of a human being's natural desire to power. Whatever the reason behind it, all bullies do what they do to feel good about themselves. Feeling socially insecure? Put down another guy to the point he's so low on the social order that you can only go up! Having problems at home where you're abused or feel unloved? Show those other kids how the authority figure in your life handles you! Do you just get a kick out of putting people down? Don't you want to be accepted by your friends who put people down? The list of reasoning goes on. And the people who are prime targets for this are just people who have an opening to exploit. Something about them to demean. Anxiety, abnormal preferences, physical and mental setbacks etc. It is a very easy to understand phenomenon, and ultimately one that will not go away. It is certainly not something we want to happen to us, or to our children, as the subjects of bullying tend to come out scarred, in ways both physically and mentally, but you know what you can do about it?

Nothing.

What a load of cynical bullshit.

Bullying is a big problem and saying there is nothing we can do does not nothing but make it a socially acceptable action in our lives. There are many things people can do but whether or not they can get the help or even ask for help in the first place is daunting as well as the fear of retaliation or fear of outright rejection of said help OR just the lack of people who can even help/protect/what have you.

There's also the fact that people in general have to change their long standing views on the matter which is no easy tas. Even so we should at least TRY to do something and not just say something retarded like "there's nothing we can do."

[Pride]

I'm not saying anything cynical. I'm not saying it's socially acceptable. I'm not saying you shouldn't try to alleviate the pain of those currently suffering, by all means, try and make other people lives better if you can.

I'm saying if you're considering bullying an issue that can actually be removed from society when it's a phenomena intrinsically tied to human nature, you're thinking along lines that cannot lead to any solution.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Pride

[Original Alear]

Identifying a general problem that isn't likely to go away as something that cannot be addressed doesn't make any sense when differences can and are made on an individual level.

I can't say I had serious, repeated problems with bullying along the lines that are generally being discussed in this thread, but I can certainly remember a few times when I was picked on. Some of those times, someone stood up for me, and it made a difference. I've also stood up for other people, and I've had them thank me later for it (again, not very serious incidents). And I've picked on people and had people call me out, and it's made a difference in my conduct at times (I'd like to think they weren't serious incidents, but there's obviously reason for bias and little reason for me to hear something indicating as much from the parties who would be affected).

Saying that the problem might not be completely erased is fine, I guess, though it seems like a pointless observance to me, because it seems like much of what can be done takes place during or after (insofar as I've heard that at least in a setting with young people, many bullies were bullied). But that's not the same as saying nothing can be done about it, which is what you said.

Finally, contending that something is a problem - as in, sucks for some or all of the people involved, not the way you defined problem -, related to human nature, and unsolvable - to the point where NOTHING can be done about it - is cynical. I think looking down on someone for being cynical is ill-advised, though. On the other hand, I'd question the (apparent) assumption that "human nature" is static, universal among humans, and that it can never be dealt with in any meaningful way (or that it's not meaningful unless it is dealt with perfectly and completely). Getting someplace better is a solution, even if it's not perfect. You don't have to solve everything that can be placed under the category of "bullying" to solve one person's problem.

I also have an issue w/ the ideas feeling a bit disconnected - you start off talking about humans' desire for power, but then you mostly mentioned issues of feeling good - but you don't need to feel powerful to feel good, or good about yourself. Or at least, I don't. And I'm pretty sure I'm a human who's subject to human nature. That's not to say feelings of power don't feel good, but I don't think you can credibly make the claim that people inevitably and irresistibly seek to establish their power. Nor do people have to bully others to acquire it, or at least acquire the belief that they have it.

Edited October 17, 2012 by L1049

[Samias]

The internet is a huge factor in today's bullying. It's easier than ever for a bad reputation to hang around someone, and that's what happened to this girl. She made one bad, but not unique, mistake as a 12-year-old, and not even a school transfer to another city could help her escape the people who were bullying her about something that happened years ago! And it went beyond bullying. She was blackmailed by the person who took her topless photo, and it was impossible for her to stamp him out, that her parents and teachers COULDN'T defend her from the internet. Considering the photo made it to the people who knew her in real life, not even forgoing the internet forever would have helped her. I don't doubt her life would have improved after high school, but the fact is that high schools are full of people who will alienate another student over the inconsequential parts about them.

I survived being a strange girl with non-standard interests by having just a few tight friends having a tangible talent, and being smart and helpful when asked. But even the few incidences where people did bully me left me feeling miserable. It was never the physical bullying that left me feeling hurt, but emotional bullying scars deep. Some girls would write lists about everything they hated about a few choice people and post it online for the whole school to see. The bullies in this case were punished, but it didn't mean that wasn't what they truly thought of those people. It didn't make a single difference to the attitudes of these girls. And while the schools around here are scrambling to figure out how to manage internet use by teenagers, bullying is going to evolve into something extremely damaging to the people who become targets, even compared to how harmful normal bullying already is. The sad truth is that there will be more teens who decide to end their life as a result of relentless torment from the anonymous security of the internet. And even worse, the punishment will always be too light because decision-making adults can no longer understand how teens can be so insensitive to the emotions of their peers, being so far removed from our generation and also the days of their youth.

Personally I think that bullying will always happen, but it isn't a "no hope" situation either. Educational rallies are a load of shit that most teens take nothing away from. However, I think faculty should be more proactive at seeking problems boiling over in their schools, and to also make students a REAL part of the solution. Make counselling more approachable. Appoint the top students as counsellors. Have the school aides and teachers guide students toward an outlet where they can talk without being judged. Anything that opens up the network of people you can talk to broadens the ability of those seeking help to find it.

[eclipse]

Girls are great at fucking people over emotionally. There's a book called Girl Bullying that talks about this in detail. Also note that not all girl bullies grow up - some find their way into the work force.

[Excellen Browning]

I've had to deal with my sister and my mother. Let's just say I appreciate neither for who they really are and they haven't evolved from it.

[I.M. Gei]

So if it's anything, Anonymous tracked down and outed the guy who stalked her and spread jailbait photos of her over the internet

[CrashGordon94]

Yes, that's excellent!

Hopefully somebody uses that info against the guy...

[Gold Vanguard]

The world is such a cruel place.....

[Aizenberg]

youve only just realised that

bullying's gonna happen no matter what

i don't know what advice to give but just try not to take it out on yourself, take it out on them

bullying is similar to racism and i despise it but what can i do

i cant go on a travis bickler like rampage and kill everyone (that was pretty dark im sorry)

the world is one fucked up place and the longer you dont realise it, the better for you

try to care less what other people think about you. be selfish

ok now im just rambling

[viyut]

I was a victim of bullying on elementary and middle school. And it was mostly because of my height(right now i'm 1,67m, and i used to be even shorter) Most people associate strength with height, and it's a wrong concept. Since i was usually the shortest person in my class the other guys would try to show they were stronger than me and they weren't! So they started spreading bad rumours about me. At first it wasn't a bother since i don't give a damn about what people i don't care about think of me, but it was a different story when my friends stopped talking to me because of that, so i found out the responsible for the rumours (it was easy, he had created an orkut community badmouthing me) And after i knocked some sense on his head (AKA gave him a beating) he gave up on bullying me.

Now it's been 7 years since then, i haven't been involved in any fights for 5 years and right now i'm happy, i got new friends, that guy started to behave(he is still a huge asshole and most of my classmates hate him as it seems i wasn't his only victim) and in four months i will be in college.

Tl:dr

If you are a victim, be strong! The bullies aren't stronger than you, they are bullies because they have serious issues with their lives! And remember, What comes from below won't hurt you! LOL he was taller than me