New Prince of Tennis Mafia: Season 1

[Kaoz]

Votals

Balcerzak (4): Paperblade, Levity, Prims, Blitz

Levity (2): scorri, Life, Prims, eclipse

Paperblade (1): Balcerzak, Prims, Levity, Blitz

Blitz (1): Radiant Dragon, eclipse

eclipse (1): Kay

scorri (1): Helios, eclipse

Prims (1): eclipse

Helios (0): Kay

Radiant Dragon (0): Paperblade, Prims

Life (0): Levity, eclipse

Should hopefully be correct. Phase ends in 35 hours, 26 minutes. Remember to send in your actions if you have any.

[Percivalé]

Are you guys going to continue spamming up the thread with NOC vs OC theory? I don't like it when I'm called out on something and then people are hypocritical about it.

That being said I actually don't think Life's hard content is scummy, but again I'm only mentioning what I don't like/what I find scummy for reasons I already explained.

Also Helios that's what I've been trying to say to Scorri for the majority of the day phase but people keep interpreting it as me being jumpy over her vote on me so :shrug:

Also Scorri never mentioned my reaction to Life's vote which was also weird

[Percivalé]

okay come to think of it I'm starting to become really suspicious of Paperblade again because his content just kinda got worse. I wouldn't mind a lynch on him too if we got to that today.

[eclipse]

Blitz - It came across as lazy, because I got the feeling that once you saw other people get interested in Paperblade you didn't feel the need to look for other places your vote could potentially go.

I disagree about the NOC vs. OC theory being bad - this tells me more about what I can expect out of Life and possibly RD. It's helpful to me because I haven't played with Life and RD in a long time.

[Percivalé]

It's not that's it's ~bad~ I just find it irrelevant. I feel like I've seen enough out of RD and Life to know what to expect from them but ymmv

[Life]

okay come to think of it I'm starting to become really suspicious of Paperblade again because his content just kinda got worse. I wouldn't mind a lynch on him too if we got to that today.

What are we, your personal vote bitch? I want reasons to follow you rather than you dictate to us how to vote.

For the record, I personally don't think that you're mafia but it's starting to frustrate me when you tell me how to vote.

[Percivalé]

I'm not telling you to follow me I'm being vocal about who I'm suspicious for

if you're still interpreting my posts as me trying to 'bully' everyone into lynching who I want to lynch you might want to adjust how you read my posts. Maybe I come off as aggressive, but pushing everyone else around is not something I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to be concise with my thoughts instead of wishy-washy/vague like I sometimes am idk

if you don't think I'm mafia why is your vote on me and what was up with the shit that you said earlier then because you're contradicting yourself now

[Percivalé]

anyway come to think of it I can out the 'reason' that Paperblade was making me uncomfortable that I wouldn't out earlier, except I'd have to dig out his posts later to make it seem more real (I don't have time now because I have class soon and some stuff to write unfortunately)

but he just seems to be agreeing with me too easily

I feel like he's trying to get on my good side (except that he's been agreeing with other things too easily as well and it just seems out of place)

[Prims]

btw Prims,

don't you always skim through stuff when you are scum?

I skim when I'm unmotivated and I'm often less motivated as scum.

Interesting stuff:

- How does Helios' post make scorri feel better about him than anybody in the thread when she's the one he's voting? Her thoughts on Levity are actually really vaguely worded (and seem like she's still relying on ED1 reasoning?) and it strikes me as possible scum!scorri would stick to the case following Life's vote for an easy spot on a possible wagon (but this assumes town!Levity). There's not much else to go on wrt her aside from this questionable stuff which is p. scummy.

- Wary of eclipse, she uses her vote for pressure but has no real scum reads like I said. This isn't a matter of not tunneling, it's that you're doing the same shit you did in SSBU and it's not actually productive for town. You voted Life because you couldn't tell who he'd lynch (when he had a pretty clear suspicion of Levity too) yet I don't see comments from you on other people's cases, or about who you actually find "scummy" instead of just "weird". Given that you're not pushing your own votes very hard you seem passive to me, even though you are posting.

- RE: Life: usually when people say they'd "be ok with this lynch" they're talking about them personally, not trying to encourage the whole town to go for that lynch. I think you're getting too hung up on rhetoric. Plus town wants their fellow townies to vote the person they think is scum anyway (assuming they have faith in their reads!) and Levity's not really overdoing it to the extent of "scum leading town off a cliff" imo.

- I can barely remember anything from Paperblade since I stopped voting him, which isn't good.

@Mod: can you prod Bal? He got 4 votes on him and hasn't posted since which is ridiculously lame as far as game state is concerned. I have no idea if I still want my vote on him or not because he downright hasn't posted.

[Paperblade]

The way that Life is talking about OC vs. NOC reads to me as sort of scummy. I would think that most if not all of us here know the difference between NOC and OC, and even if we didn't he doesn't really need to go on and on about it. Like, it really rubs me the wrong way.

[Helios]

i don't think life or bizz are scum. rd looks worse to me as far as returning players go, life is pro-active and townie while rd seems really mellow. itp means independent third party btw

Apologize if you stated it earlier in the thread, but why does RD look scummy to you?

Because I don't believe in tunneling so hard that I lose sight of everyone else, especially not this early into the game. My reasons are still ongoing, and as such, I can't say much more than that.

But you've been switching votes without really pressuring anyone into changing their ways. They haven't really done anything differently and yet you unvote them to pressure someone else, only you're not really pressuring them.

It's not that easy. OC requires a completely different skillset. Depending on how many factions exist, you can co-ordinate deals and exchanges and stuff. Even without, you can more accurate gauge how truthful a person is because it's 1v1 conversations. Here, everything's out in the open. It's a lot harder to provoke the response that you're looking for, especially with so many prying eyes.

No thoughts yet on scorri and Blitz, need to reread the thread for them.

This is a good point you can't fake cop results as easily. Only thing I can really say is you can still tell when people are lying through their teeth through other ways, but it's a little more of a drawn out process. You can still get the same reactions out of people, you just have to do it in a little bit of a different manner.

I await your thoughts then.

Are you guys going to continue spamming up the thread with NOC vs OC theory? I don't like it when I'm called out on something and then people are hypocritical about it.

Also Helios that's what I've been trying to say to Scorri for the majority of the day phase but people keep interpreting it as me being jumpy over her vote on me so :shrug:

Also Scorri never mentioned my reaction to Life's vote which was also weird

I wanted to figure out Life's thought process since I've ever played with him before, to give me a better idea of how to read him.

I got you Bizz B)

[Percivalé]

I dunno, RD is actually starting to look worse because he hasn't come back to give his thoughts yet like he said he would. Again it could be because he's rusty but I'm kind of wondering where he went. And yeah, I second prodding Bal because I've seen him around on Skype and such so . . .

[Prims]

Apologize if you stated it earlier in the thread, but why does RD look scummy to you?

RD's response to Bizz's Paper case is an example of white noise, it's all "I guess X, but Y" and doesn't clearly contribute. I feel like he's had the highest amount of posts that are game-related but don't really do much for town (discussing info rarely leads to finding scum if we're not in a set-up that needs to be gamed). Secondary scumread, maybe. If he's town he should probably step back until more has happened and he can post some clearer thoughts.

He hasn't done anything since then and I'm still waiting on his opinions (meaning same deal as w/ Bal). I am kinda worried that if he's town I scared him off with that paragraph tho :X

[Balcerzak]

Okay, what the hell. I guess it's more than half my fault for having missed over 24 hours, but when I left I had one vote on me and now apparently public enemy #1. Let's start with a little bit of self-defense shall we.

Also, Bal totally ignored that nothing he's done this game is of any actual use.

I replied to your vote as I did with a joke, because that's what I felt your reasons were, to be entirely honest. I mean let's look at them again.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Bal

RVS and then speculates about faction names which is of no use to anyone (despite appearances)

Also Bizz why are you afraid to vote when phase will only early due if all actions are in in addition to a 66% supermajority?

RVS: Everybody does it.

Speculates on faction names: Completely misleading representation. Firstly, my goal there was entirely to stop attempts at disinformation or spreading confusion from all members, but specifically RD. I even included in my first post on the subject "I don't know that we are really all that well served trying to speculate either way though." and my last and final post on the matter "Fucks given? None. Back to work." This indicates just how clearly how I think that avenue was best closed off. With as good a silver bullet as possible, so it stopped to interfere with the rest of our matters.

That was it, as far as the vote reasons go, and as they were objectively flawed, and easily noticed (RD even stepped up and admitted to his role as the instigator for the incredibly short-lived diversion, if you'll post #71).

I'll just get this out here for now while I go collect and reply to anyone and everyone elses objections, including any later more elaborated ones from Paperblade.

[Paperblade]

I am not saying that RVS is scummy, I was just noting everything that you had done.

Anyway, RD was talking about information about factions, such as maybe how many there are, if there's a neutral, that sort of thing. The way he did it was protown since it was "does anyone have evidence of multiple anti-town factions existing" since if they DO that is something to keep in mind (since it means someone can still be scum but have a not-scummy interaction with flipped scum). What you talked about was faction names, which is useless.

[Balcerzak]

Bal and Eclipse both have been less memorable than any of the players that have posted in the game so far, as least from what I remember; I need to read back and start catching up on notes before fall behind and lose the motivation to keep them anymore

Eclipse seems to have an excuse, but still needs to weigh in on some things for when she's cooled down enough to play the game. Bal's content so far has been mostly empty speculation and little sidenote statements.

At least a few of my "sidenote comments" were designed specifically to test your reactions to them. See my #45 and my #55 which were intended to subtly get a rise out of you, by pushing your buttons. A "scum read" on a player who did nothing but RVS in the second post of the game goes way beyond standard "vibes", and I wanted to get you to explain it better. Unfortunately you didn't take the bait, and eventually it seems scorri herself had to come back in order to get to the skinny of things.

Also, as specifically noted my "empty speculation" was aimed more at shutting down the speculation, than specula for specula's sake.

Yeah, this was his vote post for Paperblade, almost forgot about that. He made it right as Paper was starting to get some shit, although it was light, yet passed off of the vote as RVS which seems really late to the party and a read-through of his posts reveals his done actually little else. "I just reread the flavor;" "Did Scorri post yet?" "You missed me smudging Bizz"

Gave no more reason for keeping his vote on Paper, hasn't done any other scumhunting.

As for my PB vote, it was vote #2. Paperblade wasn't really getting any shit, and tbh, I hadn't even seen the initial Blitz RVS vote on him yet, as I alluded to when I was surprised at seeing new posts. I was watching the Revolution fall finale and some of the evening news, so didn't really keep as up-to-date with the progress while I was slowly crafting my post, and then it came out looking like a giant derp.

Furthermore, I'm notoriously bad at scumhunting, but I'll press that at least I was trying and that I was posting. In fact a lot more earlygame posting than I usually do, trying to make a good effort for the invitational here. I guess stepping out of my comfort zone serves me well. Now I know why Kay posts as often as she does. :S

See my above comments for your criticisms on the specific posts of mine.

##Unvote

##Vote: Balcerzak

Decent wagon, strongly dislike his response to Paper's vote because that sort of chiding stifles discussion more than anything (you're not defending yourself or even better finding a better target, you're just wasting a post to put your attacker down). Other stuff already covered, this guy needs to be pressed.

Paperblade has looked better from responses + content anyway; don't find the thought that he just wanted Blitz to Do Something unbelievable for town.

Are you serious? Vote sidestepping and playful banter is "chiding [which] stifles discussion"? I'd figured the defense was self-evident, but clearly not by the looks of things. It's cool, I can understand being pressed, and to be honest, if yesterday hadn't been dungeons and dragons day and I'd had more time to spare to come back and give this a thorough treatment in a timely manner that would have done things a lot better, but forum mafia isn't my only obligations so, we'll have to make do.

More to come probably, but ya'll deserve at least some updating here, I guess.

[Balcerzak]

Anyway, RD was talking about information about factions, such as maybe how many there are, if there's a neutral, that sort of thing. The way he did it was protown since it was "does anyone have evidence of multiple anti-town factions existing" since if they DO that is something to keep in mind (since it means someone can still be scum but have a not-scummy interaction with flipped scum). What you talked about was faction names, which is useless.

Cut the bullshit. Look at what RD was saying and tell me again he wasn't taking about faction names, and failing reading comprehension.

From what I can gather from the flavor, it looks to me like the U-17 Camp (Town) is being attacked by 2nd Court (Mafia, I'd assume), but it also mentions a 5th Court, which could be any of another Mafia, 3rd party, group of Independents, etc. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is we're dealing with as soon as possible.

If I'm failing reading comprehension here though, please let me know. I could have easily missed something.

[Kaoz]

Votals

Balcerzak (4): Paperblade, Levity, Prims, Blitz

Levity (2): scorri, Life, Prims, eclipse

Paperblade (1): Balcerzak, Prims, Levity, Blitz

Blitz (1): Radiant Dragon, eclipse

eclipse (1): Kay

scorri (1): Helios, eclipse

Prims (1): eclipse

Helios (0): Kay

Radiant Dragon (0): Paperblade, Prims

Life (0): Levity, eclipse

Still the same as before. The cycle ends in 21 hours. Remember to get your actions in if you have any.

[Paperblade]

which could be any of another Mafia, 3rd party, group of Independents, etc. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what it is we're dealing with as soon as possible.

[Balcerzak]

In other news, as far as the recent eclipse vs Bizz and Bizz vs scorri arguments go, eclipse is coming off looking like her argument is more solidly put together. Furthermore, I didn't see anything really wrong with her earlier Blitz vote, and the earlier Bizz vs eclipse argument over the Paper wagon it seemed to me more that Bizz was misrepping eclipse rather than what's been accused here of the other way around, but perhaps that's just my personal perspective.

I'm weighing in with a town read on eclipse.

Bizz has also been really aggressive on scorri since the get-go, and whether or not the claims of tunneling or hounding are valid, she's definitely been covering a few other topics, including at least RD, Paper, and myself.

I'm by no means sold on a scum Bizz, because this sort of aggressive play fits in with what I can expect, although there are a few more niggling aspects to it. Furthermore, just because I think this particular case on scorri is weak, I do feel that there are certainly some valid criticism to be applied to her play and I cannot in good conscience call her a town read. Not by a long stretch.

[Percivalé]

Bal I never said that I thought Eclipse was scum and I never said I thought that Scorri was scum

So no wonder you think the cases are weak because. They're not actually really there

[Percivalé]

You're making me uncomfortable, Bal, especially with this

I'm by no means sold on a scum Bizz, because this sort of aggressive play fits in with what I can expect, although there are a few more niggling aspects to it. Furthermore, just because I think this particular case on scorri is weak, I do feel that there are certainly some valid criticism to be applied to her play and I cannot in good conscience call her a town read. Not by a long stretch.

"I don't think Bizz is scum but then again there are ~things~ that bother me too idk"

"I dunno about Scorri but maybe she could be a scum read? I wouldn't call her a town read"

stop that

[Percivalé]

Furthermore, I'm not the only one who's criticized Scorri's play, so please address that too. thanks

[Balcerzak]

OK Paperblade, if that's really how you see it, I guess I honestly can't convince you. But all I'm seeing is baseless and misleading specula about 2nd hostile faction or ITP based on gross misreading of the flavor.

And shit, who was it that was always harping on me in this past for starting out games with setup speculation, as being an easy measure used by anti-town to make it look like they're being helpful while they're really not interesting in helping things along? Maybe it wasn't you in particular, but I would be surprised if you weren't around to read it.

Actually, given this, and also the post where RD doesn't seem to actually be sure of the designation for the town wincon, I really ought to move a vote here. My vote on you was random to begin with, and while I'm not particularly happy with some of your logic, you do at least seem to carry forward a few of the town interests. It's always hard to tell though with master busser Kelsey.

However, I am going to drop a ##Vote: Blitz, for the good of the Town/Camp/whatever.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Radiant Dragon

For kicking off the whole distraction topic to begin with, and if nothing else to perhaps get him to come back and share new opinions on the developments made past ED1 (hello glass house).

[Percivalé]

I kind of don't know if I want to keep my vote now or move it to Paperblade. I'll address Bal's multiple-post reaction in full after I get some sleep so I can think a bit clearly.