Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[Percivalé]

A couple of things about your addressing of Marth, Helios--

Just because Iris claimed miller doesn't make her autoclear, and even if she's telling the truth it doesn't mean her play can't be considered iffy sometimes. You're treating her claim like an absolute truth.

Not claiming isn't inherently scummy (taking meta out of the equation), although if he's not claiming because he's a PR then he just breadcrumbed a PR anyway which defeats the purpose of his statement.

[Bluedoom]

But I haven't said what kind of a PR I am so its still alright.

[Helios]

A couple of things about your addressing of Marth, Helios--

Just because Iris claimed miller doesn't make her autoclear, and even if she's telling the truth it doesn't mean her play can't be considered iffy sometimes. You're treating her claim like an absolute truth.

Not claiming isn't inherently scummy (taking meta out of the equation), although if he's not claiming because he's a PR then he just breadcrumbed a PR anyway which defeats the purpose of his statement.

I'm 99% sure she's telling the truth though. I don't think people ever fake being a miller anyway. I won't autoclear her necessarily, but I don't think we should think about lynching her until much much later in the game.

But look at the reasoning behind why it's weird. He's victimizing himself by saying "well just because I claim doesn't mean you'll take your votes off me you'll just say role doesn't mean alignment" which is pretty much saying he either has a weak role or a scummy role if it's softclaiming something.

[BBM]

Everyone should state their top 3 lynch targets. Mine are Shin > Obviam > CR.

Also I still haven't seen a good explanation for why Bizz thinks that me pushing an easy mislynch on Shin is scummy, but has no qualms with lynching CR. She says that she thought CR is scummier than Shin for reasons separate from them being newbs, but when I said the same thing, but the other way around, it was scummy.

And a few people voting me right now seem to just be saying "BBM is making good points, but he's catering to other people too much" which annoys me because they're setting themselves up to distance themselves from me after my flip.

[Percivalé]

BBM if you need help with that I said I misread a post that you made

[scorri]

Hi ok, yes, I've been prodded. Stuff came up like family and grad school apps suddenly being due so I was busier than expected these past two days. But I'm here now. First thing I'm going to do is

##Unvote

While Marth has been rather emotional, I feel like his general attitude has been more town in his last couple of posts and honestly the way he's treating his claim (or lack there of) makes me view him more as town.

Moving on, my first instinct is to drop a vote on Helios who I've been getting similar vibes from as when I've been scum with him the last few games. However, I also feel the need to reread as I've been behind and that is just vibes I've gotten from skimming posts to try and quickly catch up. Hopefully I'll get a larger post up within the hour.

[BBM]

BBM if you need help with that I said I misread a post that you made

Can you restate why exactly you're voting me then? All I have is because I'm pandering to people, which I don't really get.

[scorri]

Ok, here we go.

#109

j00 comes in, says Marth wagon is stupid, but that he gets it, people are voting stupidly, and then jumps on SB because he agrees with someone that he finds being vague and casting suspicion on people without backing it up. Don't like any part of this post. He then later accuses someone of being sheepy. When... wait, what were his reasons for voting SB? Oh right. The exact same ones as Shin. He later then claims he had reasons for voting Marth, but if that's so, why didn't he say them then?

I don't like Aleph's play right now, though I feel like at least part of that is the way he seems to be messing with Bizz. Guys seriously, can we try and have a game where we *don't* mess with people's emotions? I'm aware that it's a game and people should be able to shake it off, but that's not always the case. Just because it's said over the internet doesn't make it any less hurtful. And all it really does is make the game less fun to play.

Another bit with Aleph is how he called attention back to the bit of CR and Shin talking about the game briefly in skype. I dunno, but it seems like he's trying to get them modkilled. I'm pretty sure that Shinori would've seen it and dealt with it without you calling it out. This seems really odd to me. Add in the general attitude of his posts and I think that's where my odd feeling about him is coming from. Not sure if scum or just that I don't like how he plays yet. Will keep you updated.

My vibe on Helios was just that, a vibe. Going back and reading him I'm a null read on him.

Basically right now, I'd prefer a j00 lynch followed by an Aleph lynch. Yes, I'm aware that neither of those two are a big wagon, but those are my two main reads. So.

##Vote:j00

[Percivalé]

Obviam doesn't really bother me I think it's really funny that he thought he did though. All he's been doing is stroking his ego every time he posts. This is how he plays though AND it just occurred to me that he might be using that meta to his advantage so there's another thing to add to my notes.

@BBM, I'll pull up a fuller case after I sleep (since I'll make a lot more sense that way) but coupled with your earlier behavior I just feel that some of your opinions feel forced, especially when it came to the abrupt switch from me to Prims; regarding CR vs. Shin though, I thought you accused Shin of pulling the newbie card directly but it turns out that wasn't how you worded it. That was my mistake. Compared to Marth though, I think his hasty "I'm not going to claim no matter what" felt more town to me than "I might claim early before I have to do it last minute" but that's just me

"Pandering" as in you seem to, perhaps unintentionally, siding with other peoples' opinions (again I'll have to get specific examples) in quite a few instances and leeching off of them, though up to now it hasn't been as strong.

[Prims]

CR > BBM > j00

None of CR's posts are actually newbtown imo. It's easy to say somebody with low experience doing few things is town, but what has she posted that's actually a towntell? Right now she doesn't even have a vote.

Pretty sure Marth wagon is gonna flip town; switching to an attempt at Helios wagon is pretty bad for scum survival when he could just push BBM or take advantage of SB's absence to go for that lynch instead

[BBM]

I wouldn't actually mind lynching j00 but I feel like it'd be sort of a powerwagon at this point and not really give much to work with as a flip?

[BBM]

idk why I made that question.

[Prims]

You could argue the same for basically any wagon other than you and Marf at this point.

[Prims]

Like, we haven't reached the point where any wagon would be Last Minute Quickwagon material, so CR, j00, Shin, etc are viable lynches, but if we wanted to full retard and lynch for Information Only rather than scumminess then you or Marth would be the only optimal lynches.

[Prims]

Though fuckit, I don't see CR wagon springing up out of nowhere. Too many people who find her minimally scummy but prefer other lynches, and a bunch of people with no interest.

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

Might actually prefer j00 lynch over this, I'll compare the two when I wake up tomorrow. We're down to about 15 hours, right?

[BBM]

Fuck it, nobody really wants to lynch Shin.

##Unvote, ##Vote: j00

I'll come up with more backing this up in the morning, but I can't actually remember anything that j00 has done other than ask for ISO links or something, and I think vote SB just for being on the Marth wagon, but not really saying why he thought SB was worse than the other people on the wagon. I might be wrong about this because my memory is shaky and I'm too tired to reread.

[BBM]

I believe phase ends in just about 13.5 hours.

[Aleph]

fuck me really? I might have to set my alarm so I can actually read the 100 posts I missed and update my thoughts before the phase ends. I must have checked my PM inbox later than I thought

[Jaybee]

Fuck it, nobody really wants to lynch Shin.

##Unvote, ##Vote: j00

I see 3 people up for a j00 lynch: You, Prims and scorri. I'm pretty sure there's at least 3 people who feel uneasy about Shin and are alright with him getting lynched.

Preference for lynch is Shin > Marth, would like to hear a little bit more from j00 before he gets lynched, I suppose.

##Unvote

##Vote Shin

[Bluedoom]

uh ok? And why has your preference changed suddenly?

[BBM]

At least among the most active people, not that many people are saying they find Shin scummy. You say that more than 3 people find him scummy but I can't actually name that many, and I hadn't remembered you saying you found him scummy, so. I changed my preference because I'd been seeing more support for saying j00 was scummy. Other than the people JB mentioned, I think I remember Bizz mentioning him too. I thought there was more of a chance of getting a wagon competing against me and Marth going there, which I wanted to do because we don't have that much time left in the phase.

[charlie_]

Sorry about that, I was out with family most of the afternoon and felt lazy after getting back. But I'm here now.

Ok, I'm not sure how I feel about Marth right now. Still scumreading him, but not to the extent I was yesterday, so ##Unvote

Looking at j00, I felt like with a couple of his posts he's been trying to flesh it out a lot to make it look like he's contributing more, and voted me when I tried to generate discussion. He jumped on me and parked it all game rather than going for one of the sheep. The whole "he's not scummier, I just found him more suspicious" part kind of confuses me a little bit. Elaborate please? I also find the first line of his first post a bit strange: "This has been pretty silly, RVS got half-serious immediately and so did the votes.", this sounds almost like you'd have prefer to still be in RVS. I could probably lynch him, moreso than anyone else I've read at this point.

I would be fine with an Aleph lynch. Mostly he's been up to annoying Bizz, and then retelling the entire game while providing virtually no unique opinions, just sheeping stuff, and saying stuff that wasn't really relevant. "Having played with j00 finally I know he's a pretty rational dude, so it's not surprising he busted in ranting about how shitty the RVS was.", why is this even here? Along with the weird bit with scumreading me for posting votals, that feels kind of like grasping. Especially when you can't seem to decide on your stance on it. To clarify, I did it A because Boron's votals were a bit off, and B because there was a sudden influx of people jumping on the Marth wagon, and I didn't want him to get too many votes on him that he couldn't shake off a lynch later if he appeared more town.

The CR thinks an SK is in the game thing, I kind of assumed so from opening flavour. Although the bit about her pm is interesting. As for her play overall, I'm not particularly sure on it. I feel like noobscum would be paranoid like she is (I know I was in my first scum game), but at the same I think her confusion is genuine, and I'd feel bad lynching her day 1. Shin's reaction to being asked for reads was pretty bad. Although I can kind of agree about BBM sticking out for CR quite a bit.

##Vote: j00

[Shin]

Well, SB reappeared but I can't really say much more about him. I can see the case against j00, he's posted a few big waffles, and I don't see him keeping up with discussion. However, I'm not too sure, I can't really gauge it with activity like his :P.

BBM, funny how you've jumped on the j00 train. Especially considering how you didn't even list him in your top 3, nor have made much mention of him, and then it's suddenly "I'll do that too!". It looks like someone's desperate in trying to avoid the lynch, I guess the "Murder Shin" campaign didn't go so well?

JB, any particular reasons I rub you the wrong way? I guess my early game was a little shifty, but you and SB surprised me a little. You're also doing a little bit of looking after CR, although that could just be niceness. On the otherhand, you're not nice and I've got a feeling you want to save CR for a later mislynch.

[j00]

Saying I should have removed my vote on SB because he's "not around anymore" doesn't make sense though. I'll change my vote if I find others more suspicious, not when the most suspicious one disappears as that could be coasting/lurking. Though I admit I kinda disappeared myself and a lot more has happened since then, and SB made a better post when reappeared even though it was a vote for me.

And about my reads on Marth's wagon being unoriginal isn't a very good argument because all reads on Marths' wagon was unoriginal. It was bad. Marth was getting pissed and he was bad. There were actually more people after than before me saying this. Honestly if anyone said something original about Marth's wagon that'd be a lot more suspicious as there was hardly any reason to think it was good. Iris suspecting me for just disappearing is okay, but I don't think the other things she said made much sense. It'd be nice if she could post more too, as she admitted herself.

I voted SB because I saw him as sheeping the Marth wagon. That hasn't changed. My comment on RVS was that at a point, most people weren't sure if everyone else were joking and serious, and there were a lot of posts who conflicted in tone which lead to people taking what was probably jokes seriously and thus voted people who might have been joking.

I don't mind a CR lynch. She's acting n00b-ish, though I'm not sure of aligment, but has outright stated that she doesn't know what she's doing. Regardless of alignment that is bad play and works as cover even if she's scum.

I think BBM jumped on my wagon a bit too quickly, considering there were lot's of others he'd rather have lynched. His stance on Shin is okay, but he seemed to have jumped on me just because he wanted a lynch without elaborating his suspicions on me. You had three other people you found scummier than me man, not saying why you're okay with my lynch is mindlessly jumping on a wagon.

Obviam at least provided a lot of reads and viewpoints with his huge-ass post, even though it's mainly a summary. His post content doesn't bother me, but the Bizz vote seems more like an attempt to annoy her than anything else.

##Unvote

##Vote: CR

[Bluedoom]

We need a lynch and Helios doesn't look like its gonna happen sooooo

##Unvote ##Vote: CR

I don't know but j00's content earlier didn't seem off to me but that's probably czu i agreed with his SB vote so yeah.

Changed my mind, I'd prefer to see a CR lynch because that SK comment was highly unnecessary so yeah. Scumreads go Helios>CR>Shin(came in only when he was called out) with BBM a little behind, I feel better about BBM after that weird ED1 though so yeah.

I won't be on for deadline.