Why do female characters get the most hate during shipping arguments?

[Thor Odinson]

That is also a good point. I'm a big fan of Thor (duh), and I've read through the majority of his comics. Now there's a character, Jane Foster, who was his love interest back in the 60s when the comics were first written. The Jane then pretty much had no defining character other than "oh no Thor save me" and being Thor's love interest, and she would've irritated me whether or not she was paired with Thor or not. To be fair though, that iteration of Jane is a product of its time, considering the 60s, but it does stand that some female characters are just poorly written.

Modern iterations of Jane is pretty cool though and finally has defining characteristics and an actual character beyond "Thor/Don Blake is a hottie", so I like her now.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Thor Odinson

[MacLovin]

That is also a good point. I'm a big fan of Thor (duh), and I've read through the majority of his comics. Now there's a character, Jane Foster, who was his love interest back in the 60s when the comics were first written. The Jane then pretty much had no defining character other than "oh no Thor save me" and being Thor's love interest, and she would've irritated me whether or not she was paired with Thor or not. To be fair though, that iteration of Jane is a product of its time, considering the 60s, but it does stand that some female characters are just poorly written.

Modern iterations of Jane is pretty cool though and finally has defining characteristics and an actual character beyond "Thor/Don Blake is a hottie", so I like her now.

Beta Ray Bill and Frog Thor too?

ANd the Ragnarok Clone?

To be honest, most action oriented anime/comic books/shonen/ action oriented games are kinda oriented for males so I can see the reasons behind this.

But yeah, I get tired of the shipping things.

[Thor Odinson]

Yes them.

I don't. You can make a female character appealing visually AND be an actual character that stands on her own. Making female characters that are only there for eyecandy only serves perpetrates sexism (on both ends, it implies men only think with their dicks and are incapable of liking a female character for her personality when it's a false assumption, and it puts women in a position of sexual object. It's bad for everyone) and is also a sign of bad writing. And for the record, I don't like it when male characters are only mancandy for media targeted more towards a female demographic, either. Good writing writes characters like, you know, actual human beings with actual personalities.

But hey, recent Marvel stuff (at least the ones I read, which granted is basically just everything related to Thor so isn't that much) is pretty good at that. So I'm happy.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Thor Odinson

[Sunwoo]

Most of my favorite characters tend to be male more often than female, and I still have yet to really figure this part out.

I think one thing that bothers me about female characters more so than males is the double standard that crops up at times. It's usually in anime, but I've seen it in other media too. For example, male characters who show interest in "another woman", accidentally end up in a ... "compromising" situation, or gets annoyed that his girlfriend is flirting with another guy? He either gets the crap beaten out of him, called a pervert, shunned, or scolded for being "unfaithful" or having "wandering eyes". Meanwhile, female characters can flirt with guys who are not their boyfriend, look at guys without getting nearly as much backlash, and will be all ~drama~ when the guy she likes doesn't look at her and get to slap him around.

I ... don't like characters like that, male or female. And I tend to find that female characters tend to fall into that "double standard" a bit more than male ones. Which is why I'm not a fan of tsunderes. Not to mention, as Lumi already mentioned, female characters who have no character are hard to relate to. I feel that a lot of female characters are either unfair or bland or a "symbol", which is really hard to relate to. Guys just seem ... more interesting, and I am not completely sure why.

[eclipse]

I am more likely to base my like/dislike of someone based on personality traits, as opposed to just gender. If a guy's acting stupidly shallow and being a gossipy PITA, he'll get just as much scorn as the woman who does the same. This goes for fictional characters as well.

[MacLovin]

Yes them.

I don't. You can make a female character appealing visually AND be an actual character that stands on her own. Making female characters that are only there for eyecandy only serves perpetrates sexism (on both ends, it implies men only think with their dicks and are incapable of liking a female character for her personality when it's a false assumption, and it puts women in a position of sexual object. It's bad for everyone) and is also a sign of bad writing. And for the record, I don't like it when male characters are only mancandy for media targeted more towards a female demographic, either. Good writing writes characters like, you know, actual human beings with actual personalities.

But hey, recent Marvel stuff (at least the ones I read, which granted is basically just everything related to Thor so isn't that much) is pretty good at that. So I'm happy.

We might actually get along well.

If you remember Balder Odinson

Also, I do remember some female characters dying selflessly but it's been awhile.

Wasn't wonder woman created to be a strong role model?

I mean, stereotypes aren't really something I take seriously but I would rather see a character with willpower than a sheep dressed up as eyecandy.

[Thor Odinson]

Man Balder's died so many times I lost count, poor guy

I'm not familiar with DC-verse, but I think from what my friends told me Diana's pretty badass but some of her writers don't treat her very well. It really depends on the writer I think, which is true for... well, pretty much anything really. Comic books are kind of a special case I think in that the writer for a certain series changes vs in most other media it's one person or one team, so you can get this awesome, in-depth, super well-done and very in-character portrayal of a certain character in one arc and suddenly everything's out of character in another and you're going like, "what the hell is going on, ______ would never" but eh, some people just really shouldn't get hired for writing but they do.

Yeah. Strength of will is always a trait I am fond of as well, just in general.

[Ϲharlie]

Wasn't wonder woman created to be a strong role model?

That may have been the intent, but there is no denying that early Wonder Woman comics were sexist. I remember seeing one particular panel where Diana's eyes had been taped shut. She said something along the lines of "My female vanity won't let me tear out my eyelashes. I'm going to have to escape blind." :\

[Ciarre]

I also see a lot of hate on female characters just because they aren't "strong". Like physically or uh, like, supernaturallyish in the case of that kind of universe. Those people should take a look around them and realize that real life isn't like that, you can't just hate on people for being physically weak. Like what the fuck.

[Eberict]

Popo's point is an excellent one and emphasizes that knowing who makes the media, who the intended audience is, and what the goals of the producers are are paramount concerns in seeking to understand this issue. What Popo outlines is why, for example, I could not fully participate as a viewer in the 'moeblob' culture which emerged in the anime scene in the mid-2000s; the pandering, by that point, was just too painfully obvious. Your whole response was perfectly written, Popo. I may be re-rereading it for a while.

which is a long winded way of saying your friend could've been perhaps a bit zealous in saying that it portrays women in male bodies :p

Haha, I don't disagree there. His is an opinion I've always taken with a grain of salt, but also one which opened my eyes to an alternate (his) perspectiveI hadn't yet considered. Just knowing about it has enriched the way I try understand cultural objects like yaoi.

On the topic of Wonder Woman, the most painful thing you can do to yourself is array several issues of the comic before you and analysis them critical from a gender issues standpoint. Even in the New 52 reboots, she's either kissing someone or tied up or tentacle'd in each and every one of the covers. We're 70 years after 1941 when she first appeared, but the portrayal of her on the cover hasn't changed a lick.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Eberict

[MacLovin]

Man Balder's died so many times I lost count, poor guy

I'm not familiar with DC-verse, but I think from what my friends told me Diana's pretty badass but some of her writers don't treat her very well. It really depends on the writer I think, which is true for... well, pretty much anything really. Comic books are kind of a special case I think in that the writer for a certain series changes vs in most other media it's one person or one team, so you can get this awesome, in-depth, super well-done and very in-character portrayal of a certain character in one arc and suddenly everything's out of character in another and you're going like, "what the hell is going on, ______ would never" but eh, some people just really shouldn't get hired for writing but they do.

Yeah. Strength of will is always a trait I am fond of as well, just in general.

That may have been the intent, but there is no denying that early Wonder Woman comics were sexist. I remember seeing one particular panel where Diana's eyes had been taped shut. She said something along the lines of "My female vanity won't let me tear out my eyelashes. I'm going to have to escape blind." :\

And I thought comic books were for geeks and then I find cool people talking about them.

I wish they put more of the obscure heroines in media like movies and TV shows. The Avengers movie could have used Valkyrie or Thundra Photon to keep it up front.

In other words, cheesecake gets old fast.

[Thor Odinson]

Valkyrie is perfect yes please forever

They could also do a Defenders movie or something, since she's been on that team. I'm pretty hype about the new Fearless Defenders series though coming up. All female lineup with Val and Misty Knight on the cover kicking ass? Hell yeah.

sorta on topic: Valkyrie is still perfect. One of my favourite female superheroes and I love the way she's written. man why does all my favs come from asgard

Edited January 26, 2013 by Thor Odinson

[MacLovin]

Valkyrie is perfect yes please forever

They could also do a Defenders movie or something, since she's been on that team. I'm pretty hype about the new Fearless Defenders series though coming up. All female lineup with Val and Misty Knight on the cover kicking ass? Hell yeah.

sorta on topic: Valkyrie is still perfect. One of my favourite female superheroes and I love the way she's written. man why does all my favs come from asgard

Can we be friends already?

Defenders was underrated, the artwork was nice and the writing was good.

And I'm a fan of Namor.

But what I really want to see is a Heroes For Hire with Luke Cage beating the shit out of things like Mr. T.

[Esau of Isaac]

In other words, cheesecake gets old fast.

Unless you love delicious, yummy, scrumptious cheesecake.

Mmmmm, cheesecake.

Not the food, that shit's for the birds

Edited January 27, 2013 by Esau of Isaac

[FrostyFireMage]

I guess there's also the fact that a lot of people will like and accept a character solely because that character is a badass, while the characters who are emotional/vulnerable/gentle are spurned for being less entertaining.

Since badassery is usually reserved for the male characters in fiction, a lot of female characters are stuck with the less exciting roles, causing them to be considered boring, weak or an insult to women everywhere. It's no surprise that fans believe that a badass guy deserves nothing less than a badass girl, of which there are few and far between.

[Frosty]

Because it gets in the way of slash or something like that. I've seen a much bigger fanbase for slash than for het pairings in many fandoms I've encountered.

IMO hating a character purely because they get in the way of your pairing of choice is pretty unreasonable, though, but some people are unreasonable.

THIS...

Apparently, I'm currently on the grounds of a stormy fandom that gets flak because of this.

Although I suck at explaining elaborate things... so... I'll just leave this topic to you guys...

Edited January 30, 2013 by Irredeemable Failure

[Original Alear]

I love characters who come across as cripplingly weak at times, because they get under my skin and make me feel something of what being weak is to me. I don't necessarily need them to triumph, either. Since those are characters, not real people, it's probably important to remember the possibility that people get messed up by other people, and then stop doing it.

And I love the idea of someone who puts on a face of disinterest, but puts into practice the advice of their fellows. (the idea) In that sense, I really like Soren in FE10. I don't really care if he's weak, because he's also strong. But it's OK to just be weak, too. Jarod is merely weak to me, but I thought that if he had nothing in him, the dog deserved better than the master (same with BK and Sephiran?).

Since badassery is usually reserved for the male characters in fiction, a lot of female characters are stuck with the less exciting roles, causing them to be considered boring, weak or an insult to women everywhere. It's no surprise that fans believe that a badass guy deserves nothing less than a badass girl, of which there are few and far between.

That's what I don't get about pairing...shouldn't it be about what will work? Or do people deserve what will work? Or what...?

I guess that what "will work" could be whatever people want.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Mouse