The Lunatic Club

[Alastor15243]

I think there was a recent thread about a finding that it's actually 15%, or is that exclusively the positive bonuses?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

You mean this thread? Yeah, it's only for the non-HP Asset that it's +15%. The non-HP Flaw is 10% (but also brings the sub-stats down by 5% each). It can make a difference over a long time, but it's actually not a huge change when Robin's base Tactician Str growth is 55% (at least, not when enemy Def stays in the single digits for a very long time).

[Bman]

Hey Guys, I'm doing my first Lunatic+ run and I'm currently at ch. 17. I'm playing on casual because I didn't want the experience to be too overwhelming. I did a little bit of grinding and I mostly do not reset when I lose a unit. (except all my staffbots or Olivia get defeated)

Right now my team consists of my Avatar Elsa (+mag./-hp; Sage, will promote her to DF) , Virion (Sniper), Chrom (Great Lord), Olivia (Dancer), Lissa, Ricken (both Sage),Sully, Gaius (both Assassin, will promote Gaius to Hero), Maribelle (DF), Gregor (Bowknight), Frederick (Griffon Rider) and Tharja (Sniper). Sometimes I use Lon'qu (Swordmaster, I regret not going Assassin with him) and Cordelia (DF) to clear up the enemies. After ch. 21, I will recruit the kids I wanna use, which consist of Virion!Morgan, Lon'qu!Severa, Frederick!Noire and Gaius!Kjelle.

Tharja is really amazing as a Sniper by the way, I promoted her to it from darkknight, she's at lv. 5 right now and she can tank nearly everything with the help of her husband Frederick.

Her current stats are: Str. 20, Sk: 27, Sp: 38, L: 16, Def. 26 and Res. 11.

I have a question concerning Gregor though, should I promote him to an assassin or leave him a bowknight? Assassin would give him lethality, but I would loose 2 Movement and also Maribelle would lose the +1 to hers.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Lethality is definitely not worth class-changing for. Its proc rate is just too low. Assassin is typically picked up in the earlier game by a main tank character prior to Bow Knight for Pass to prevent getting cornered. With a full team, including dedicated staffbots, as well as it sounding like you typically have Gregor in the back, you probably don't need any of that. I'd say stick with the extra mobility.

[xirei]

Hi guys, starting my first regular Lunatic run on classic. My avatar is +Mag/-Def and I've done around 5 chapters so far. I'm getting to the point where I have to reset countless times to win, and I'm wondering if that's because I didn't optimize leveling for my characters so I want to try again. So my question is, what's the general strategy for distributing experience on Lunatic? I know to keep Frederick to a minimum, and also to try and use weaker weapons to get the most exp possible, but it feels like all the maps I barely have any breathing room for doing that. Oh btw I'm trying to play without grinding on DLC.

Also I'm planning on Chrom X Sumia, is it possible to get Sumia to learn galeforce by ch. 13 (Assuming I use a master seal at 10) without making too many sacrifices? And also which characters should I generally be lvling and who should I be avoiding (like I know you'll have a bad time trying to level with Donnel)

[Rev4n]

I've heard that it's a bad idea to try to pass down galeforce without grind, but leveling donnel is a lot easier than you'd think. I normally get him to lvl 6-7 during his chapter because there are quite a few archers you can pin down. I'm not as experienced as other people here, so I don't feel confident that my other advice is the best.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Sumia can get there if you feed her a large portion of the kills (including paralogues). If she's promoting at 10, though, you're probably gonna need a strong main tank unit to help her out, as her stats aren't going to be very good. Normally, this job would go to Robin, but -Def, you might have to make a judgement call. There's a lot of terrain shenanigans that fliers can do with P2, P3, C8 and C10 that allow them to pick up kills from relative safety (she still needs to be able to win battles against any enemy fliers).

[xirei]

Thanks for the advice, yeah I can feed Donnel a ton of kills to get him to 6 but then I think if I won't be using him I'd rather level him up and feed the rest to Sumia instead. How about general Lunatic strategies? I realize after a certain point in ch5 my MU is doubling and overkilling enemies, should I be feeding most of the rest to Chrom? Or Stahl or something?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Well, any kills Robin doesn't take should be what Sumia gets. If you have anything to spare beyond those two, most of the frontline fighters are fairly serviceable as a third. It's up to you, really, although, if you're looking for popular ones, Nowi and Panne (reclassed to Wyvern Rider) tend to get a lot of love.

As far as general strats go, divide and conquer is probably about it, really. Enemies will usually go after the squishier of available targets, so you can have a weaker unit peel off an enemy to exchange blows with by only being in that enemy's range, while a main tank like Robin distracts or kills the others. Once your units are close to or far enough ahead of the curve, you shouldn't need to do much special to complete the rest of the game.

EDIT: Actually, there is one thing to consider: make sure you have a plan to kill Grima and work throughout the campaign to make your units realize this plan.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi

[xirei]

If she's promoting at 10, though, you're probably gonna need a strong main tank unit to help her out, as her stats aren't going to be very good.

Can you explain this part to me? Is this because as a base class, you gain more experience when facing the same enemies vs in a promoted class? However doesn't the promoted class tend to have higher growth rates along with higher base stats? In terms of reaching GF the fastest, that's the only option right?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Yes, tier 1 classes will gain more EXP, so levels 11 through 20 are a good opportunity to pack on extra stats that can really help her in the long run. Promoting right away will give her a decent boost, then the slow experience gain will cause her to grow pretty slowly. As far as growth rates go, promoted classes only tend to pick up an additional 5%, maybe 10% some cases, to a stat's growths, which hardly offsets the slower EXP gain. And promoting at 10 will get you the fastest, in terms of levels gained, but the enemy stat curve will start to catch up to her, making things more of a slog in real time. Ultimately, even though she's on a time crunch, there's enough content leeway that she can afford to wait until after 10 to promote. Actually, if you're really working to feed her, she's likely to be above 10 by the time you come across your first Master Seal, anyway.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Hi guys, starting my first regular Lunatic run on classic. My avatar is +Mag/-Def and I've done around 5 chapters so far. I'm getting to the point where I have to reset countless times to win, and I'm wondering if that's because I didn't optimize leveling for my characters so I want to try again. So my question is, what's the general strategy for distributing experience on Lunatic? I know to keep Frederick to a minimum, and also to try and use weaker weapons to get the most exp possible, but it feels like all the maps I barely have any breathing room for doing that. Oh btw I'm trying to play without grinding on DLC.

Also I'm planning on Chrom X Sumia, is it possible to get Sumia to learn galeforce by ch. 13 (Assuming I use a master seal at 10) without making too many sacrifices? And also which characters should I generally be lvling and who should I be avoiding (like I know you'll have a bad time trying to level with Donnel)

The most optimal way to go about exp distribution is to try to get Avatar to around Lv.10 before Cht.2 (there's a bit of RNG involved (DSes and Mag growth) in whether this is possible, but a high 9 is very doable), beat the bottom wave doing whatever you need to do (except feeding everything to Fred), and then use Cht.3 to start stuffing one more unit you want to train- Sumia and Miriel are the most popular choices, and Stahl can be a good idea too but is harder to do. Cht.4 is similar but there are less feeding opportunities and it's OK for Fred to do more fighting. Somewhere around post-Cht.4, Par.1 or Cht.5 (depending on what order you've been doing things and who's getting trained), Avatar should use the Renown Second Seal to reclass at Lv.19-20. Dark Mage is a good option if you need to keep your Def and Tomes, Merc and Cav are strong physical options. Par.1 is another strong location for feeding your other units. Once you hit Cht.6, you'll want to have at least one non-Avatar/Fred unit capable of helping out in combat as a lead without either of them supporting (ideally). After Cht.6, things quiet down and you should do whatever it takes to get your S supports and inheritances rolling so you'll be strong after Cht.13- try to get Avatar promoted (at Lv.20) between Cht.8 and 10, and otherwise feed away. Normally you could use your Avatar as an impenetrable wall to help with positioning and giving other units kills, but since you're -Def you'll have to be creative about it. It's still possible, though.

[xirei]

The most optimal way to go about exp distribution is to try to get Avatar to around Lv.10 before Cht.2 (there's a bit of RNG involved (DSes and Mag growth) in whether this is possible, but a high 9 is very doable), beat the bottom wave doing whatever you need to do (except feeding everything to Fred), and then use Cht.3 to start stuffing one more unit you want to train- Sumia and Miriel are the most popular choices, and Stahl can be a good idea too but is harder to do. Cht.4 is similar but there are less feeding opportunities and it's OK for Fred to do more fighting. Somewhere around post-Cht.4, Par.1 or Cht.5 (depending on what order you've been doing things and who's getting trained), Avatar should use the Renown Second Seal to reclass at Lv.19-20. Dark Mage is a good option if you need to keep your Def and Tomes, Merc and Cav are strong physical options. Par.1 is another strong location for feeding your other units. Once you hit Cht.6, you'll want to have at least one non-Avatar/Fred unit capable of helping out in combat as a lead without either of them supporting (ideally). After Cht.6, things quiet down and you should do whatever it takes to get your S supports and inheritances rolling so you'll be strong after Cht.13- try to get Avatar promoted (at Lv.20) between Cht.8 and 10, and otherwise feed away. Normally you could use your Avatar as an impenetrable wall to help with positioning and giving other units kills, but since you're -Def you'll have to be creative about it. It's still possible, though.

Thank you this is exactly the specific type of advice I was looking for! Do you have any specific advice on how to feed a particular unit, and how to organize my pairings? Do I only want to enter battle with the units I'm training and not reach the limit? In that same vein, do I want to be just creating a big wall with Fred/Kellam/Avatar without items and give javelins or something to Sumia and level that way?

[Rev4n]

Stahl starts out with crappy speed like Vaike, but I personally think hes usable, he's like a better Frederick. I normally use my renown second seal as soon as im past chapter 7 when I don't need to use the elwind tome to take out the wyvern riders, normally into merc to get armsthrift into hero- then whatever I feel like. (Sorcerer is op so I like going sorc after.) Like Czar said Par.1 is a pretty easy map for feeding kills as there are lots of bottlenecks you can make use of, and many archers you can pin down (Barbarians have really low defense so they're easy to kill). Early game your -Def avatar won't be able to tank hits as good, so you'll probably want somebody else that can take hits.

Do I only want to enter battle with the units I'm training and not reach the limit?

It depends if they will be useful or not. You might need to do that in the really early chapters like 3-5 but after that they'll die pretty easily, as you aren't feeding kills to them: they can't do anything. Edited June 26, 2015 by eclipse
Merged double post

[Rev4n]

Do I only want to enter battle with the units I'm training and not reach the limit?

It depends if they will be useful or not. You might need to do that in the really early chapters like 3-5 but after that they'll die pretty easily, as you aren't feeding kills to them: they can't do anything.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Thank you this is exactly the specific type of advice I was looking for! Do you have any specific advice on how to feed a particular unit, and how to organize my pairings? Do I only want to enter battle with the units I'm training and not reach the limit? In that same vein, do I want to be just creating a big wall with Fred/Kellam/Avatar without items and give javelins or something to Sumia and level that way?

More or less, although chokepoints tend to work better than trying to do walls of units. Less bodies that will need healing. Low-manning tends to be the safer way to do it. Sometimes it pays to bring extras, like having an extra flier as a taxi (mages also work for deserts), an extra healer, or just a decoy to lure problem enemies over (like, say, enemy fliers). Vaike or Stahl with a Speed support tend to do well with this, since they generally have enough raw damage soak to take a hit with. Don't bring anyone if you don't have a purpose planned out for them for that battle, though. Otherwise, they'll just become useless lumps—or even worse: liabilities.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Do you have any specific advice on how to feed a particular unit

Learn to use Unequip to its fullest. Creating simple chokepoints is lucrative, but you can get even more out of the enemies with distractions and AI abuse. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to explain how to do that through text because it's more of an experience thing, so the best way I can summarize it is to be as greedy as possible without being risky, all the time. Funneling always takes more work than feeding a tank, but turn counts don't matter.

If it's a specific unit you have in mind, though, there might be a few tricks that are highly specific to them for getting them over their hump much more quickly than usual, so ask away.

[Vorena]

Learn to use Unequip to its fullest. Creating simple chokepoints is lucrative, but you can get even more out of the enemies with distractions and AI abuse. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to explain how to do that through text because it's more of an experience thing, so the best way I can summarize it is to be as greedy as possible without being risky, all the time. Funneling always takes more work than feeding a tank, but turn counts don't matter.

If it's a specific unit you have in mind, though, there might be a few tricks that are highly specific to them for getting them over their hump much more quickly than usual, so ask away.

I think the first several chapters are pretty ideal for training units on Lunatic. Assuming Avatar is getting the bulk of the KOs on prologue Chrom can still get a few KOs. The boss KO or maybe a straggler KO for a level. On the next chapter you can very nicely have all enemies break themselves on Fred/Avatar on a fort being attacked by 4 enemies at a time. Hopefully, you did not flat out KO them and can use the two in the upper right to train chrom/sully/virion by luring those two enemies towards your units in the upper right forest. Chapter two can have this exact same process done as well. Eventually, they get strong enough to do stuff on their own. I remember Chrom being useful to KO dracos on chapter 5 and other enemies because I took time to keep him relevant.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Vorena

[xirei]

Learn to use Unequip to its fullest. Creating simple chokepoints is lucrative, but you can get even more out of the enemies with distractions and AI abuse. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to explain how to do that through text because it's more of an experience thing, so the best way I can summarize it is to be as greedy as possible without being risky, all the time. Funneling always takes more work than feeding a tank, but turn counts don't matter.

If it's a specific unit you have in mind, though, there might be a few tricks that are highly specific to them for getting them over their hump much more quickly than usual, so ask away.

Thanks, do you have any tips for feeding Sumia? What I've done is to create a huge wall of fred+kellam in the longfort and have her spam javelins in the back, however I'm not sure how to proceed in the really open maps where it's hard to set up and I need to kill units before I die

[ultmatelifeform]

Nevermind this post. I wrote this under three hours of sleep over two days. Sorry for bad ideas and don't try this. If you have three tanks than you probably don't need sumia anyways. And its an early stage of the game. What was I thinking?

Edited June 29, 2015 by ultmatelifeform

[Czar_Yoshi]

Trying to get four tanks together to form a wall around a unit is extremely inefficient and creates more problems healing the tanks (if you even have them) than they solve. If you need to use defensive formations, incorporate unpassable terrain in instead, but it's more efficient to use distractions to split up the enemy and get weakened ones separated to feed on.

[Rev4n]

Yeah there are many choke points to use, like for example in chapter 5 you can filter out the wyvern riders by putting freddy or another tank in one of the choke points. You just put a unit in the wyvern riders range to lure them out and you can give the exp to anybody.

[Varidan]

So i never bothered to marry Maribelle off before, which, despite really liking her character for some reason, found it too much of a hassle, and heard Brady was one of those hard to recruit children. I finally did this time around, to Henry, and boy her face turned more bright red than any other female i've seen in this game so far...

Anyhoo, now that i'm finally at the Brady recruit chapter, it looks pretty daunting, especially taking the villagers into account. Any ideas to save as many as possible? I am on Lunatic mode, and only started up the level and looked around, but i'm tackling it tomorrow. I'm thinking the best strat may be to clear one side and spam rescue the villagers with Mari and Lissa. Currently Noire is probably my most powerful character as a Hero with Vengeance/Wrath/Sol, and i could probly just send her the opposite way as a distraction with General Morgan pair up and clean house. What do you guys think? All i know is trying to defend the middle fort does not sound like a winning strategy...

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

You're probably gonna need at least three staff users (luckily, Brady is a thing) and you're probably going to have to be really aggressive off the bat. A huge issue is going to be the Snipers, who all have Longbows and start in range of several Villagers. So not only do you have to kill them all on player phase, they're constantly going to be a threat to any Villagers, even if you do move them, until you've eliminated quite a few of the Snipers. Pick one side and send all your firepower there. If you're absolutely certain about your killing power (you're generally gonna have to kill three Snipers no matter where you go), you can try to leave a strong decoy inside the shrine itself to delay incoming Paladins (who will likely run the Villagers down if you don't kill the Snipers fast enough).

[Varidan]

Yea i saw all those snipers. Thats pretty much what i figured, rush one side and rescue spam. Altho wouldnt you know it... i turn my DS on and a random encounter spawns on the rescue stave shop...