The Lunatic Club

[Shadow Mir]

Lunatic+... Does Nosferatu tanking still trivialize the difficulty completely.

And is there ever a break in the gameplay at all? For a brief moment after chapter 6 in lunatic stuff was easy until chapter 12 started up. But after chapter 13, I think you could Nosferatu tank the rest of the game and trivialize the game.

I dunno. I'd say no since the random skills change everything. Ergo, Luna+ would make it hard for tanking through Nosferatu to be overall profitable, as would Aegis+, and don't even get me started on Counter.

[Interceptor]

The real fun comes next chapter when Counter is added to the randomization pool.

In chapter 3, have fun with those enemies with Counters. Especially the armored enemies with Aegis+/Pavise+. Also, watch out for the enemy with the hammer. If he has hawkeye, you're screwed. Also, watch out for Archers with Pavise+/Aegis+, Counter, and Luna+.

It wasn't too bad in Ch3 for me, since I wasn't forced to use Frederick anymore. Avatar was about level 14-15 at the start of the chapter, and could handle everything herself. Counter was annoying, but Avatar 3HKOed at range (at worst) so it was generally only a problem if there were multiples in the same location and I couldn't spread them out. At least Hammerguy wasn't an issue. In fact, once the bottom had a successful clear, the rest was gravy since I had nearly unlimited kiting space.

Aegis+ was irritating.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

it was generally only a problem if there were multiples in the same location and I couldn't spread them out.

As the enemy count gets higher, these clumps of Counter will become more frequent. And since there don't appear to be any checks and balances from chapter 3 onward, it's quite easy to end up with randomizations where the majority of the map has Counter. I know I've had play the reset combination for somewhat long periods of time because the game insisted on generating 90% of the map with Counter guys.

[shadowofchaos]

I know I've had play the reset combination for somewhat long periods of time because the game insisted on generating 90% of the map with Counter guys.

That, right there, is the most discouraging part of Lunatic+.

That skill alone is what constitutes most of the pain in the later chapters.

[Shadow Mir]

That, right there, is the most discouraging part of Lunatic+.

That skill alone is what constitutes most of the pain in the later chapters.

And it's the big reason why I ain't touching Lunatic+ with a 1001 foot pole (that, and the fact that getting it requires beating Lunatic, which I ain't about to even TRY).

[Interceptor]

I care about Counter prior to beating Chapter 4; not so much after that. There are ways to deal with it (Sol, Galeforce, units that don't deal damage, maybe even Lethality). I personally don't care if I have to use weird tactics, or if I have tip the scales in my favor by grinding DLC; the game is already cheating as it is, so counter-cheating is Fair Game™.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I care about Counter prior to beating Chapter 4; not so much after that. There are ways to deal with it (Sol, Galeforce, units that don't deal damage, maybe even Lethality). I personally don't care if I have to use weird tactics, or if I have tip the scales in my favor by grinding DLC; the game is already cheating as it is, so counter-cheating is Fair Game™.

It's all fine to say that, but map design often doesn't make it so easy in practice. Sol is great, but it doesn't make a unit invincible. One that can 2HKO an enemy will probably be killing him-/her-self around the third or fourth Counter enemy, even if Sol procs everytime and the enemy misses every time. Galeforce does help immensely, but it still only allows killing two per pair (or three if both units have it) and if the majority of the map is packing Counter, they'll probably still get overwhelmed. Lethality is too unreliable to really help here (you're probably better off investing in a crit weapon). Believe me, I gave it a try on my grind run and while it was fun and hilarious, even with Rightful King, I couldn't count on it at all.

I also want to note that weird and "cheap" tactics are often requirements to win Lunatic+.

Even if you grind DLC to even the odds (which I did on my first run), unless you're insanely lucky, there will be randomizations that require a reset, because just getting to turn 2 would be a miracle.

[Interceptor]

I definitely understand what you're talking about in terms of Sol/Galeforce/Lethality, but surely meatshielding is viable: Counter can't kill you if you're not dealing damage. I'm also as coldhearted as Marth, and have no problem recruiting a Spotpass unit solely to use them as a honeypot to attract flies before they perish. All's fair.

[LuminescentChaos]

I beat the final chapter, Grima, in Lunatic+ in 3 turns with just Chrom and MU. MU and Chrom had Limit Breaker. MU was equipped with an upgraded Celica's Gale (9mt, 95hit, 5crit) and Chrom had Exalted Falchion.

Edited April 15, 2013 by LuminescentChaos

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I definitely understand what you're talking about in terms of Sol/Galeforce/Lethality, but surely meatshielding is viable: Counter can't kill you if you're not dealing damage. I'm also as coldhearted as Marth, and have no problem recruiting a Spotpass unit solely to use them as a honeypot to attract flies before they perish. All's fair.

Hehe, oh, man, that's pretty ruthless. Yeah, meatshielding is viable, although the enemies still hit pretty hard. Expect the Spotpass casualty list to be pretty long if you go that route (actually, it might be kind of funny if you were to keep a running list). And I guess at least early on, some of the Spotpass units you can hire will be mostly invincible.

[Elieson]

Is DLC affected by game difficulty? Because I finally beat R&R3 on my lunatic file

[Shadow Mir]

Is DLC affected by game difficulty? Because I finally beat R&R3 on my lunatic file

Yes, with the exception of the Golden Pack DLC.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[darkkfan]

EDIT:

^ From what I've been told, yes, it does. I've never Nostanked, myself, so I can't say for sure, though. I can guess that it does, though, since Sol makes the run significantly easier.

haha... Dammit, if you keep saying stuff like that I'm gonna have to ban Sol in my run too :(

[Linkmstr]

I beat the final chapter, Grima, in Lunatic+ in 3 turns with just Chrom and MU. MU and Chrom had Limit Breaker. MU was equipped with an upgraded Celica's Gale (9mt, 95hit, 5crit) and Chrom had Exalted Falchion.

I beat it in two turns. Just like Lunatic/Classic.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

haha... Dammit, if you keep saying stuff like that I'm gonna have to ban Sol in my run too :(

:P

Well, Sol is much more reasonable because it's not an all the time thing. Nosferatu is (although I can see it getting really silly when stacked with Sol). Honestly, as helpful as Sol is, I found Veteran and Galeforce better because they were something I could count on.

[Linkmstr]

:P

Well, Sol is much more reasonable because it's not an all the time thing. Nosferatu is (although I can see it getting really silly when stacked with Sol). Honestly, as helpful as Sol is, I found Veteran and Galeforce better because they were something I could count on.

Counter is also helpful too.

[shadowofchaos]

Is DLC affected by game difficulty? Because I finally beat R&R3 on my lunatic file

As an added note, the only map I've seen with Lunatic+ skills if you're on Lunatic+, is Future of Despair 3.

TSON has NON-RANDOM Lunatic+ skills on enemies regardless of difficulty.

Honesly, WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE DONE THAT ON REGULAR LUNATIC+!? Argh.

Man I'm never gonna get over that.

[Interceptor]

The random thing wouldn't be so bad (strictly speaking, it does make things interesting) if they just had some basic controls on how often that certain skills/combinations showed up.

[Linkmstr]

As an added note, the only map I've seen with Lunatic+ skills if you're on Lunatic+, is Future of Despair 3.

TSON has NON-RANDOM Lunatic+ skills on enemies regardless of difficulty.

Honesly, WHY COULDN'T THEY HAVE DONE THAT ON REGULAR LUNATIC+!? Argh.

Man I'm never gonna get over that.

Oh boy, can't wait for that DLC to come out. Ever since I saw your video on the Pavise and Pavise+ thing, I wanted to try out how hard it was whenever it comes out.

So it's the only map that has Lunatic+ skills besides "The Strongest One's Name" DLC. That's it?

[Vorena]

So how important are trained support bonuses would people say for Lunatic+? After doing Lunatic, I found you did not really need to pair up two units which I was giving experience too. Having Panne with an untrained Lon'qu throughout the entire game was completely fine for example.

I am mostly asking because by pairing two units for training, yes they get better supports, but they are harder to get experience too if you have to keep rotating in a map to keep the exp evened out.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Supports generally don't need to be trained, as an S support provides better boosts for less. The support hopefully keeps up enough to at least do some damage (just enough to push the lead unit into ORKOing should do), which is usually okay because WEXP is gained at a normal rate, meaning you can compensate with gear.

That said, a trained partner will provide better support and allow for emergency swap-out, but is typically not worth the effort. The only pair I bothered doing this with was Lucina and Morgan and that's because both had Veteran and I passed Galeforce to Morgan. This allowed them to gain evenly on player phase, with Veteran helping to push them ahead of the curve. My other two big front line pairs were FeMU/Chrom and Vaike/Cordelia. Both still did fairly well despite Chrom and Cordelia both seeing very little non-support combat.

[Interceptor]

I feel like it's situational.

With a setup like NowixGregor, you always want Nowi to be the Lead unit anyway, and the loss of a couple stat points here or there due to Gregor lack of training doesn't matter (plus he can be fitted with effective mt weapons). But in the case of a Pegasus paired with a Cavalier or something, it's useful to be able to swap to the land-based unit, so that you use flight to move around, but retain the ability to drop bow weakness for Enemy Phase. although I suppose in that case, you can get most of the effectiveness (first Turn flight) just by training the Cavalier.

[darkkfan]

So how important are trained support bonuses would people say for Lunatic+? After doing Lunatic, I found you did not really need to pair up two units which I was giving experience too. Having Panne with an untrained Lon'qu throughout the entire game was completely fine for example.

I am mostly asking because by pairing two units for training, yes they get better supports, but they are harder to get experience too if you have to keep rotating in a map to keep the exp evened out.

I find it's best to use the pair up partner that gives the best bonuses for a situation rather than waste someone who is trained or restrict yourself to people you've already gained ranks with. On the other hand, certain units, especially when trained, seem to complement each other nicely. Examples from my experience include Gregor (Lon'qu), Chrom (Sumia), and Miriel (MAG MU) although I'd imagine things like Kellam (Lon'qu) and Frederick (Chrom) are pretty nice if you are training those units.

Basically, it's usually more practical to keep trained units separate (so you get two competent fighters) with appropriate untrained pair up partners such as Frederick (Gaius or Cordelia), Gregor (Panne), and Lon'Qu (Gaius), than to sacrifice that to get one slightly stronger unit, but the latter does have some use in certain situations.

I notice that most people like to pair up MU with a trained unit, not sure if that's to make a broken Morgan, or just because veteran ensures that it is possible to split the EXP.

I feel like it's situational.

With a setup like NowixGregor, you always want Nowi to be the Lead unit anyway, and the loss of a couple stat points here or there due to Gregor lack of training doesn't matter (plus he can be fitted with effective mt weapons). But in the case of a Pegasus paired with a Cavalier or something, it's useful to be able to swap to the land-based unit, so that you use flight to move around, but retain the ability to drop bow weakness for Enemy Phase. although I suppose in that case, you can get most of the effectiveness (first Turn flight) just by training the Cavalier.

Wait, you trained Nowi but not Gregor on Lunatic+?

Nothing wrong with that I suppose, I just thought Gregor was a bit more Lunatic+-friendly.

But if you're using Nowi, good for you.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Walhart

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Wait, you trained Nowi but not Gregor on Lunatic+?

Nothing wrong with that I suppose, I just thought Gregor was a bit more Lunatic+-friendly.

I think he's talking about his Lunatic vanilla run, but I could be wrong. In any case, I did something similar. I started out intending to pair Nowi and Gregor and possibly train Gregor so I could have more early Sol, but I ended up with Nowi as the lead and Gregor playing support the whole time.

[darkkfan]

I think he's talking about his Lunatic vanilla run, but I could be wrong. In any case, I did something similar. I started out intending to pair Nowi and Gregor and possibly train Gregor so I could have more early Sol, but I ended up with Nowi as the lead and Gregor playing support the whole time.

Oh, ok. That would make more sense. We were talking about Luna+ though

In any case, I did something similar. I started out intending to pair Nowi and Gregor and possibly train Gregor so I could have more early Sol, but I ended up with Nowi as the lead and Gregor playing support the whole time.

I hate to ask you this question too, but...is this Luna or Luna+?