Donny X Panne

[Mister Cold]

You realize you're hyping growths in a game where stat boosters are infinite?

EDIT: If I were on Lunatic, Donnel would be permanently benched.

It's Donnel that sucks, not Aptitude.

Not having to dump stat boosters on a char is always better then when you have too.

And 20% extra growth is indeed 2 stats every 10 lvls in theory. But that is per stat.

You make me wanne use Donnel in Lunatic ... One day (when this finally get's released in EU)

[Paperblade]

An untrained Donnel as a parent will shit over the kid's bases, canceling out whatever gain they would have gotten from Aptitude pretty easily

[Bryan]

An untrained Donnel as a parent will shit over the kid's bases, canceling out whatever gain they would have gotten from Aptitude pretty easily

That's why you train him? Once you reclass him, he'll become one of your best units. I waited until level 15 and he shit all over everyone else's stats.

He just needs: Fredrick Double, Forged Bronze lance, and possibly some of those other temp. stat boosters. He really isn't that hard to train. People over state how hard it is because they're used to nino. There are skrimishes, DLC, spotpass, and not to mention training during the chapters. He'll be more than fine, he just needs that inital investment.

And if you're pairing for children, why would you not train one of the parents? That's stupid.

[Paperblade]

If I spent the same amount of time in DLC with any unit other than Donnel I would get the same thing but with more than 2 promoted classes to choose from (Bow Knight isn't a real class unless you're Virion)

Edited February 25, 2013 by Paperblade

[Bryan]

If I spent the same amount of time in DLC with any unit other than Donnel I would get the same thing but with more than 2 promoted classes to choose from (Bow Knight isn't a real class unless you're Virion)

I spent less time training Donnel than any other character besides Nah to get similar results. The children characters took just as long. (Although their start wasn't as rocky, I had the whole main game to train Donnel...)

[Othin]

I didn't say you had to reclass immediately to get Aptitude.

Then you don't get Aptitude at all for ingame purposes, only getting it when you start grinding, which makes even less sense than the no sense you were already making.

[Folt]

I spent less time training Donnel than any other character besides Nah to get similar results. The children characters took just as long. (Although their start wasn't as rocky, I had the whole main game to train Donnel...)

The children characters aren't locked in a useless class, that takes one of the three reclass slots for first-gen characters, that is only good for one skill that becomes useless once you've maxed your stats. And if you're training the children, you're probably grinding anyways: the difference being that the children often gets caps that will beat Donnel's out of the water, can potentially come with skills that are as good or better than Donnel's Aptitude (or Aptitude itself), and can potentially come with much better bases as well.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Folt

[Bryan]

The children characters aren't locked in a useless class, that takes one of the three reclass slots for first-gen characters, that is only good for one skill that becomes useless once you've maxed your stats. And if you're training the children, you're probably grinding anyways: the difference being that the children often gets caps that will beat Donnel's out of the water, can potentially come with skills that are as good or better than Donnel's Aptitude (or Aptitude itself), and can potentially come with much better bases as well.

I said that Donnel starts in a rut that the others didn't, but people are overstating how much he sucks. He actually isn't that bad. He's amazing as a parent. He's the best father, not including Chrom/MU. Although Donnel!Sully > Chrom!Sully, since it grants their child galeforce and armsthrift, where Kjelle couldn't get either before.

And I can think of five other skills I'd give Donnel. (If you wanted to stay with underdog, there's one.) Sol, Counter, Armsthrift, bowbreaker, cry skills, etc. This isn't even including Res+10 or quick slash, which are both awesome. He's not actually losing out on that much because hero is amazing. He also makes a great Demon slayer, once we get those.

TL;DR, Donnel isn't shit like everyone says.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Bryan

[Folt]

I said that Donnel starts in a rut that the others didn't, but people are overstating how much he sucks. He actually isn't that bad. He's amazing as a parent. He's the best father, not including Chrom/MU. Although Donnel!Sully > Chrom!Sully, since it grants their child galeforce and armsthrift, where Kjelle couldn't get either before.

And I can think of five other skills I'd give Donnel. (If you wanted to stay with underdog, there's one.) Sol, Counter, Armsthrift, bowbreaker, cry skills, etc. This isn't even including Res+10 or quick slash, which are both awesome. He's not actually losing out on that much because hero is amazing. He also makes a great Demon slayer, once we get those.

TL;DR, Donnel isn't shit like everyone says.

I never said that Donnel isn't an amazing father (in fact, being able to pass down Peg. Knight for Galeforce access is pretty awesome, though I won't make use of it as my eugenics plans goes for other things), but calling him the best after Chrom and Avatar is kind of pushing it because his stats on base can drag his child down and I'm not fond of his caps, neither as a unit or as a father. And all of those skills except Armsthrift requires grinding to get on him, Res +10 and Quick Slash can also be gotten by any male unit, and we get enough Mercenaries and Heroes in the game who don't need babying to get good, especially on harder difficulties.

TL;DR, Donnel isn't shit because of his potential, he's shit because options!

[Bryan]

I never said that Donnel isn't an amazing father (in fact, being able to pass down Peg. Knight for Galeforce access is pretty awesome, though I won't make use of it as my eugenics plans goes for other things), but calling him the best after Chrom and Avatar is kind of pushing it because his stats on base can drag his child down and I'm not fond of his caps, neither as a unit or as a father. And all of those skills except Armsthrift requires grinding to get on him, Res +10 and Quick Slash can also be gotten by any male unit, and we get enough Mercenaries and Heroes in the game who don't need babying to get good, especially on harder difficulties.

TL;DR, Donnel isn't shit because of his potential, he's shit because options!

Donnels stats aren't shit. It's not a stretch to say he's the best father, besides those two. His stats won't suck, if you trained him at all. Give him a reclass and a promotion and no one else you have on your team will even come close. The mother I paired him with hurt him more than donnel did.

As far as skills go, I already mentioned more than five other possible skills to keep on him. He doesn't need the additional options from villager, his class set is already decent. I might have preferred barbarian over fighter, but I digress.

[Thor Odinson]

I'm preeeeeetty sure they're referring to efficient and/or Lunatic/+ settings where grinding isn't applicable. If you grind, well yeah, go nuts and do whatever, but that's not what they're talking about.

On another note, I entered this thread expecting to read the support I've been hearing so much about. I still don't see a support here or the support thread. :<

[Bryan]

I'm preeeeeetty sure they're referring to efficient and/or Lunatic/+ settings where grinding isn't applicable. If you grind, well yeah, go nuts and do whatever, but that's not what they're talking about.

On another note, I entered this thread expecting to read the support I've been hearing so much about. I still don't see a support here or the support thread. :<

I'll concede that on lunatic + his rut lasts a heck of a lot longer than in other modes. It's not that hard to hand him a couple of kills here and there. You don't even have to grind that much.

[Folt]

Yes. We are indeed talking about efficiency and Lunatic, though I don't think he's worth it on Hard Mode either.

Donnels stats aren't shit.

Neither are they spectacular compared to other units once maxed.

It's not a stretch to say he's the best father, besides those two. His stats won't suck, if you trained him at all. Give him a reclass and a promotion and no one else you have on your team will even come close. The mother I paired him with hurt him more than donnel did.

He's not really the best father, even excepting Chrom and Avatar. He has a one point Strength and Defense modifier and a three point Luck modifier, but he shafts over everything else cap-wise! Given that I have other fathers planned for Sully and Nowi (as Tharja will shack up with Gaius, the other Peg. Knight class passer excepting Avatar), Donnel doesn't offer enough to win a spot in my eugenics plans.

As far as skills go, I already mentioned more than five other possible skills to keep on him. He doesn't need the additional options from villager, his class set is already decent. I might have preferred barbarian over fighter, but I digress.

There are other options for units in this game who will have skillsets of equal or better value than Donny. Far better time spent on them than on Donny for me.

I'll concede that on lunatic + his rut lasts a heck of a lot longer than in other modes. It's not that hard to hand him a couple of kills here and there. You don't even have to grind that much.

That rut lasts so long that training him on that mode isn't worth it. Same on Lunatic. And that is his downfall: as the difficulty increases, his ability as a unit lessens... considerably.

[eclipse]

Then you don't get Aptitude at all for ingame purposes, only getting it when you start grinding, which makes even less sense than the no sense you were already making.

If you're using Donnel as anything but a Skill/Luck booster (and a bad one at that), grinding will eventually be involved, whether it be on him or his kid. If you're going efficient in-game, Donnel's purpose in life is to provide your army with a Bronze Lance - otherwise, he's taking up a deployment slot where just about anyone is better (in which case, any of his skills on any kid is a moot point).

[Othin]

If you're using Donnel as anything but a Skill/Luck booster (and a bad one at that), grinding will eventually be involved, whether it be on him or his kid. If you're going efficient in-game, Donnel's purpose in life is to provide your army with a Bronze Lance - otherwise, he's taking up a deployment slot where just about anyone is better (in which case, any of his skills on any kid is a moot point).

If using Donnel is at all in the discussion, you're not playing optimally, but if there's any discussion to be had, grinding isn't part of it.

[Lanko]

What, making a children a villager ? You are a horrible parent, how can you do that to the poor kid!

[eclipse]

If using Donnel is at all in the discussion, you're not playing optimally, but if there's any discussion to be had, grinding isn't part of it.

Unless you're going for all support conversations, there's really no point in pairing him, since just about any other male parent has some advantage over him as a regular unit (and I will gladly list them). His kid's either gonna get shafted, base-wise, or you're going to be doing some sort of grinding so that his kid doesn't look like a functional waste of space.

[Faye]

The title oughta be changed to "let's argue over Donnel". =P

[Gangrel]

This topic has went WAAAAAY off on a bunny trail. Speaking of bunnies, I thought this was about "Donny X Panne", not "Let's argue about how good Donny is." Griding and classing isn't even on topic...

[Thor Odinson]

Yes please can someone actually post the support I really want to read it :<

[Gangrel]

I've never done the exact support, but since this is starting to turn into a heated debate, I'll go ahead and change the subject by sharing my opinions about the support.

So far, I've only beat the game once (Currently doing my second run). I paired Kellam with Panne in that, and from the conversations I've

heard, Panne was talking about how her traditions differ from normal ones.

She doesn't practice-train, because if she so much as engages in battle, she

fights to the death. Kellam and her fought to the death, but Kellam

survived because of his big armor. I'm not sure that Donnel would survive

like that against Panne.

On the other hand, from what I've heard, in

Donny and Panne's support, Panne shows a more friendly side to her. Donny

gets something on his face, and she licks it off for him. This creates an

opposite feeling which factors in Panne's softer side. I might be wrong

that it was Donny that it happened to, but I'm pretty sure this was the

pairing. Panne probably doesn't show her soft side to Kellam, even after

they're married, because he's too strong.

From both of those supports, I

can conclude that Panne does stuff a certain way. If she is going to marry

someone weak, she shares her softer side. If she is going to marry someone

strong, she shares her fighting side. Either way, both supports have their

pros and cons. There's a lot of more different supports with Panne I could

talk about, but it would just be opinions, not conversation.

So, that's

my base opinions about the support.

[Paperblade]

I'm preeeeeetty sure they're referring to efficient and/or Lunatic/+ settings where grinding isn't applicable. If you grind, well yeah, go nuts and do whatever, but that's not what they're talking about.

This has nothing to do with efficiency.

The time taken to get Donnel up to [some goal] > time taken to get any other unit up to [some goal], Donnel is still worse (and maxed out he's still terrible due to his lack of class options and weird cap mods). People think he's good because he has shitty bases so they baby him for 8 maps and then he gets really good levels and they go WHOAMG WHAT AN AMAZING UNIT since he keeps getting those good level ups, but if you babied any other unit the same way you get the same effect but for far less effort, since at the point Donnel has hit "on par with the rest of the team" another unit would hit "solos maps". For example, see the Avatar solos of Lunatic. If you feed him all the kill for Prologue-Ch. 3, he can suddenly solo maps.

His sole purpose in life is to pass down a good class set to girls (Peg Knight, Merc, and Troub) and Underdog.

[darkkfan]

On the other hand, from what I've heard, in

Donny and Panne's support, Panne shows a more friendly side to her. Donny

gets something on his face, and she licks it off for him. This creates an

opposite feeling which factors in Panne's softer side. I might be wrong

that it was Donny that it happened to, but I'm pretty sure this was the

pairing. Panne probably doesn't show her soft side to Kellam, even after

they're married, because he's too strong.

You're probably thinking of a different support. I remember a series of events in which Panne gets stuck in Donny's animal traps and then they end up challenging each other, after which Donny manages to trap Panne multiple times and eventually proposes to her while she's stuck in a ditch.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Walhart

[Samias]

I still don't understand why you would pass on Underdog. It's just not that good of a skill, even for avoid freaks. You could easily just reclass the child to mercenary to pick up both the amazing Armsthrift and the similar-more-reliable-but-slightly-weaker Patience, then class up into a Hero and get the amazing Sol and Axebreaker skills, so dodging won't even matter because you'll be setting off Sol so often to recover HP and axe-wielding enemies (of which there are many) will never hit you. And you'll never waste your time in a crummy class like Villager. +20% growths and the ability to preserve expensive forges for many, many uses is what makes Donnel broken as he accrues levels. Underdog is utterly forgettable, with so many other skills that give similar bonuses and only 5 skill slots at your disposal. Specifically in Yarne's case, you could even decide to make him a Trickster to pick up Lucky 7, which is +20 hit/avoid for 7 turns. The average turncount of any given map is a lot less than 7.

Personally my best Donnel pairing was with Tharja for a ridiculously good Noire, but a trained Donnel as a father breaks any kid, even the low tier ones like Brady.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Samias