Best/Worst in the Series Round 182

[Florete]

Like I stated, you'd have to drag Rolf along, and who'd be enthusiastic about having to drag a bad unit along just to get Shinon back?

So what about Garret in FE6? You have to drag along Lilina, a bad unit. As I recall, he only moves when in range, making this even tougher since it means you need to draw him in first. Also in FE6: Fir, Shin, Gonzales, Klein and Tate (especially on B route), Cath, Percival, Douglas (although this is technically different enough).

Geitz in FE7. Dart isn't terrible, but not good, either, and you have to draw Geitz in similarly to Garret. And this is when you're already on his map. Alternatively, while he's not an enemy, Wallace's re-recruit in HHM is much more of a pain than Shinon's. Even Raven's can be an annoyance if you take too long, what with the NPC Soldiers attacking him and enemy Archers.

Shinon's map is even a rout, so you have to kill every enemy anyway.

[Shadow Mir]

So what about Garret in FE6? You have to drag along Lilina, a bad unit. As I recall, he only moves when in range, making this even tougher since it means you need to draw him in first. Also in FE6: Fir, Shin, Gonzales, Klein and Tate (especially on B route), Cath, Percival, Douglas (although this is technically different enough).

Geitz in FE7. Dart isn't terrible, but not good, either, and you have to draw Geitz in similarly to Garret. And this is when you're already on his map. Alternatively, while he's not an enemy, Wallace's re-recruit in HHM is much more of a pain than Shinon's. Even Raven's can be an annoyance if you take too long, what with the NPC Soldiers attacking him and enemy Archers.

Shinon's map is even a rout, so you have to kill every enemy anyway.

I brought up Douglas and Tate. On Garret, he heads for the eastern village (and granted, Lilina's bad, but not worst-unit-in-the-game bad [which arguably applies to Rolf in PoR]). Fair enough on Cath, and possibly for some of the others you brought up.

For FE7, Raven would only apply in Eliwood mode since he comes after you in Hector mode.

[Florete]

Rolf may be the worst unit in his game while Lilina isn't in hers, but Lilina still has worse performance in general than Rolf. But that's not the point, the point is that it isn't uncommon for FE games to force us to deploy a possibly-unused unit to recruit another. How good or bad that unit is is never taken into account. Shinon's is actually made easier than most by only requiring you to get said weak unit in his talk range. Then you just have to pound him down like every other enemy in the map.

For Raven, that's still half the modes in the game.

[riariadne]

Best: Walhart

Worst: Xavier. Fuuuck.

[Sartek]

Best: Talk to him with the lord (at least you're not forced to take a potentially weak and untrained unit or worse the unit is dead)

Worst: Xavier (there is NO competition for this spot)

Dishonorable mention: Protect the Kog'Maw npc (imagine if you could recruit Eve and co if they survive but you don't want to send Lachesis in the kitchen for the entire chapter), having to sacrifice another unit for it (I like Olwen, she has very nice pref weapons, the worse being gaiden chars from FE11) and Karla-type recruitment

[ClevelandSteve]

Best: Talk with your Lord (Gives you something to work for without having to use a useless unit)

Honorable Mention: Automatic (Sometimes it's nice to just get a good unit without having to do anything)

Worst: FE11 Gaiden Chapters (Having to kill half your army to get a character)

Dishonorable Mentions: FE7 Karla (Reasons everyone already stated. Extra points for not being a very good payoff for the effort, either), FE9-10 Stefan (Luckily, I had a guide. But I don't see how anyone could possibly find and recruit him on their own), FE13 Gangrel (I swear I had to retry that mission 10 times from his AI suiciding him after one or two talks)

[Baldrick]

I think Shinon's recruitment is being voted on the basis of a blind playthrough? Most talk recruitments, anyone who can talk to the enemy recruits them. You might try talking to Shinon with someone else, figure he's unrecruitable, and kill him without trying Rolf. There's nothing to suggest Rolf is the key afaik (never played fe9).

Best: Jake in FE11.

Worst: Anyone recruited in a gaiden in FE11.

[Shadow Mir]

I think Shinon's recruitment is being voted on the basis of a blind playthrough? Most talk recruitments, anyone who can talk to the enemy recruits them. You might try talking to Shinon with someone else, figure he's unrecruitable, and kill him without trying Rolf. There's nothing to suggest Rolf is the key afaik (never played fe9).

You could say that. It's also not mentioned that Ike specifically has to be the one to finish off Shinon.

[Ace Tactician]

Best: Base Convos

Worst: FE 11 Gaiden requirements

[BrightBow]

I wouldn't say that there are no hints at all.

First off all, when Rolf first joins, the brothers vocally point out that someone had to have taught him to use a bow. A question that is revisited later during one of the Triangle Attack conversations. Oscar figured it out but is shut down by Rolf before he can spill the beans.

Also, the game's unit screen shows you which units can talk to an NPC. And if one possibly unit can't get anything done by talking, you would naturally try the remaining ones listed. Also, if you have Mist talk to him, the dialogue heavily suggests that you should try Rolf.

And since Shinon is always quite vocal about his dislike for Ike, it's an easy conclusion to draw that Ike has to prove himself to Shinon before he accepts him as a leader.

Personally, I see the problem merely in the fact that the two requirements have nothing that ties them together. So you can't figure out that you have to do both things in order for it to work.

That, and you are usually used to the fact that a killed unit is... well, death. During my first try, I actually meet all the requirements. But I pressed reset two lines after beating the boss since I didn't interpret the "death" conversation the way it was intended and didn't expect having to wait until everything else is said and done before getting a confirmation.

The consequence was, that I spend hours futile trying less likely methods before finding out online that I got it right already.

Anyway:

Best: Optionally saving a main character through actions over the course of the whole campaign (Eyvel/FE5).

Worst: Don't kill the potential recruitment (Jill/PoR)

First of all: As difficult as recruiting Eyvel is, it is mostly straightforward and intuitive. Of course, if that was all to it, it would be way to much work.

But the thing is that you are not just saving a nobody. You are saving Eyvel. Eyvel is a very awesome person who did so much for everyone. And all while being brave, compassionate and unbelievably badass.

With the proper writing, the difficulty only makes it more rewarding when you finally get such characters back.

It's even helped by the fact that it's entirely optional. It's so much more rewarding when you can make a difference and the world reacts to those actions rather then being railroaded into everything.

Jill on the other hand, is un-recruitable when she appears on the map for the first time. And since that isn't spelled out, I spent a lot of time trying to recruit her like with Shinon. Just how are you supposed to know, that you can't recruit somebody?

Not to mention that I consider her a very important character in the story. And the developers clearly thought so as well, since they gave her so many info conversations, battle conversations and scripts. She is effectively a main character.

That's why I think it's such a shame that you can so easily skip her by failing to recruit her and leaving her dead. If you don't get her, you miss out on so much more then a mere Wyvern Knight with a portrait. They really shouldn't have put her on the map.

Edited March 21, 2013 by BrightBow

[Shadow Mir]

I wouldn't say that there are no hints at all.

First off all, when Rolf first joins, the brothers vocally point out that someone had to have taught him to use a bow. A question that is revisited later during one of the Triangle Attack conversations. Oscar figured it out but is shut down by Rolf before he can spill the beans.

Also, the game's unit screen shows you which units can talk to an NPC. And if one possibly unit can't get anything done by talking, you would naturally try the remaining ones listed. Also, if you have Mist talk to him, the dialogue heavily suggests that you should try Rolf.

And since Shinon is always quite vocal about his dislike for Ike, it's an easy conclusion to draw that Ike has to prove himself to Shinon before he accepts him as a leader.

Personally, I see the problem merely in the fact that the two requirements have nothing that ties them together. So you can't figure out that you have to do both things in order for it to work.

That, and you are usually used to the fact that a killed unit is... well, death. During my first try, I actually meet all the requirements. But I pressed reset two lines after beating the boss since I didn't interpret the "death" conversation the way it was intended and didn't expect having to wait until everything else is said and done before getting a confirmation.

The consequence was, that I spend hours futile trying less likely methods before finding out online that I got it right already.

I suppose you have some good points. But still, it stands out as a Guide Dang It since usually, anyone who can talk to a unit would cause that unit to join then and there. And even if you talked to him with Rolf, most players would still assume he couldn't be recruited and then kill him without realizing that Ike needed to defeat him, since as you said, there's nothing that ties the requirements together.

[The Envoy of the Beginning]

Best: Going with Base conversations.

Worst: Xavier. Don't get me started on how ridiculous it is to get him.

FE7 HHM Wallace is a dishonorable mention.

Edited March 21, 2013 by BLS

[Leonhardt]

Best: Holyn

Worst: FE11 sidequest characters

DHM: Cath and Katerina, Stefan, Karla

[secondworld]

Best: Holyn (a new character and exp!)

Worst: KARLA!

[MJThom_2009]

Best: Base conversations

Worst: Shinon re-recruitment

Seriously, in drafts I realize that if he's one of the characters you use, you need Rolf to talk to him first and the one thing you need to do to avoid being penalized is to make sure Rolf(if he's not used as a drafted character) isn't in range of the enemy sages with long range tones.

Best/Worst Comic or Funny Moment

[Shadow Mir]

Worst: Shinon re-recruitment

Seriously, in drafts I realize that if he's one of the characters you use, you need Rolf to talk to him first and the one thing you need to do to avoid being penalized is to make sure Rolf(if he's not used as a drafted character) isn't in range of the enemy sages with long range tones.

Best/Worst Comic or Funny Moment

Actually, I think the only way to get Shinon and not get penalised for having Rolf exposed would be that you'd also have to have drafted Rolf as well, since some of those siege goons happen to be within range of Shinon as well.

[Florete]

Actually, I think the only way to get Shinon and not get penalised for having Rolf exposed would be that you'd also have to have drafted Rolf as well, since some of those siege goons happen to be within range of Shinon as well.

It's been noted that Shinon himself will talk to Rolf. This solves that problem.

[Shadow Mir]

It's been noted that Shinon himself will talk to Rolf. This solves that problem.

The question is, can Rolf be in range of Shinon so they can talk without being in range of the siege goons at the same time? I remember that at least one of them is in the same general vicinity as Shinon...

[eclipse]

Best: Enemies that auto-recruit (Darros in FE11 is an example).

Worst: NPC that has to survive the map (bonus points if he/she is in the middle of things, and can't fight back). It's like one of my own units, except I can't control him/her.

Dishonorable mentions: Suicidal enemies, FE11 gaiden requirements, and Cath (at least Katarina doesn't loot chests).

[Florete]

The question is, can Rolf be in range of Shinon so they can talk without being in range of the siege goons at the same time? I remember that at least one of them is in the same general vicinity as Shinon...

Yes. The only one that might still be alive is too far away.

[NinjaMonkey]

This round is now over, and the next one will start shortly.

[dondon151]

in xavier's defense (too late, i know, whatever)

recruiting him is an interesting challenge and it's also not terribly difficult. the sleep sword trick, which really isn't even a "trick," works wonders here.

[Refa]

Considering the winning option was like, base conversations, I doubt interesting challenge is what most of the people are interested in.