Your Favorite and Least Favorite Lord

[Rewjeo]

This is merely down to opinion. I personally found Ike's part of the game to be more interesting. Part 3 is my favorite part of the game, in fact.

That doesn't change the fact that the GMs get a huge role all of a sudden even though the DB is just as significant plotwise, since they're the player's representation of the other side. There's no really good reason for the GMs to get so much of a spotlight compared to the other groups. The poor CRKs may as well not exist, even though a solid third perspective could have added a lot, IMO.

Exactly. We don't see any build up, which is the problem here.

But that's not an issue with Micaiah's character. My point was that she's not loved for no reason. We simply aren't shown the whole journey, most likely because the game has four parts and they couldn't all be full-length games alone.

And it's never stated whether other Heron Branded had healing powers or anything or if her predecessors had such abilities. It's only known that apostles before her were also the voice of the goddess.

You can't argue that Micaiah has stupid powers for no reason just because the game doesn't go into detail explaining how she got them. She's a unique kind of branded known for being the "voice of the goddess." It seems more reasonable to me that her powers are not unique within that group, seeing as the whole apostle thing is kind of a poorly executed justification of her powers.

And branding Micaiah a savior just because of a unique hair color and unique power is stupid, imo. People began to see Ike as a savior because of his strength, battle skills, character, etc.

Country is being oppressed. Group fights against oppressors. Distinctive leader of group becomes figurehead and image of hope. Makes enough sense to me, and that applies to both of them. Besides, it's not like Micaiah doesn't go out of her way to help people or lead Daein to victory.

Of course I've played the damn game. Why else would RD be listed as my favorite FE? And I never said Micaiah didn't care about Daein. I said Daein is the ONLY thing she cares for. She doesn't give a damn at all about innocent Crimeans, Begnion people, or laguz. She only cares about them if they join her cause. Otherwise, they don't matter one bit.

I think I was unclear. By "doesn't care about them," I was referring to the laguz and allies.

My point was that what you're saying there is flat out wrong. There's really not much more to it than that.

A character doesn't have to have changes to their personality in order to be a good character. And besides that, Ike DOES change a bit over time. He doesn't think all nobles are stupid idiots anymore because he met and befriended people like Elincia, Geoffrey, Lucia, etc. He still doesn't like their lifestyle and surely hates bastards like the Begnion senators, but still. He abandons his idea of not caring at all for nobles to help the ones that need help.

Ike grows for different reasons than Micaiah. He grows to live up to his father's legacy, not to abandon all of his beliefs later.

So I wrote a whole big thing here and my writing was basically thinking through it, so it was hard to follow. Here's sort of where I ended up:

Characters should not change who they fundamentally are (most of the time). "Growth" (playing with connotation here, not denotation) is honestly a bad thing. This is Ike's problem: his issues are basically that he's inexperienced and actually has some prejudice (gasp) and his character arc is... those flaws get fixed. He's too malleable to the situation. He would have been more interesting if he kept up his prejudice, honestly. With Micaiah, instead, the aspects of her character are explored through the story, but she really doesn't change much. The situation doesn't deal with her, she deals with the situation. And her situation is hard and challenges who she fundamentally is and there's no easy way for her to deal with that. Ike is who he needs to be to get things done (and not in the sense that he willfully changes to get what he wants, in the sense that Ike's sort of like a deus ex machina) while Micaiah's prejudice affects how things turn out. That's, like, step one to writing a good character. Like, Hamlet ends the way it does because of what Hamlet does. Hedda Gabler ends the way it does because of how Hedda behaves. The Great Gatsby ends the way it does because, well, you get it. It's also probably not a coincidence that these could all be classified as tragedies. The characters don't just fix things. They break things.

I never said Ike was perfect either. Nobody is perfect. So stop putting words in my mouth. Also, ANYONE would be a more interesting character with good writing.

Oh, I was saying that Ike was perfect. Those were my words. The person you've described is absolutely perfect and fixes everything and makes no (meaningful) mistakes. Micaiah gets people - good people - killed.

I meant that, unless you fundamentally changed the characters, a well-written Micaiah would be better than a well-written Ike.

[-Cynthia-]

Yeah for Ike's supposed prejudice against nobles he never shows any sort of unkindness or hostility towards Elincia and his 'rudeness' towards Sanaki and the other Begnion nobles consists of one incident where he ends up looking like the good guy anyway because he's defending Elincia's honor or whatever. Sanaki proceeds to trust him with the whole Serenes Forest deal and names him a general despite questionable qualifications, so the 'good' nobles end up liking and respecting Ike anyway. He leaves the royal court before Radiant Dawn because of his distaste for nobles, but this all fits into Bastian's master plan and lets the GMs rescue Lucia anyway, so no repercussions.

Basically Micaiah's loyalty towards Daein ends up being a more interesting flaw because it actually affects her and the people she cares about negatively, whereas Ike's 'disliking nobles' supposed flaw only serves to benefit Ike if anything.

[Anacybele]

That doesn't change the fact that the GMs get a huge role all of a sudden even though the DB is just as significant plotwise, since they're the player's representation of the other side. There's no really good reason for the GMs to get so much of a spotlight compared to the other groups. The poor CRKs may as well not exist, even though a solid third perspective could have added a lot, IMO.

I agree that the Dawn Brigade should've had a longer arc, same with the Crimean knights, but I still don't see the problem with Ike's part. The Greil Mercenaries are obviously more experienced than the DB, so it makes more sense to send them against Begnion's stronger troops.

But that's not an issue with Micaiah's character. My point was that she's not loved for no reason. We simply aren't shown the whole journey, most likely because the game has four parts and they couldn't all be full-length games alone.

And I disagree. I think it IS an issue. There ARE reasons she's loved, but they're stupid, like I said, and never explored. She wasn't even the actual leader of the Dawn Brigade, that was Nolan. People just looked at her and went "silver hair? Healing powers? OMG SAVIOR!"

It would've been better if Micaiah's part was one game and the rest of RD was made into another so we have a Tellius trilogy.

You can't argue that Micaiah has stupid powers for no reason just because the game doesn't go into detail explaining how she got them. She's a unique kind of branded known for being the "voice of the goddess." It seems more reasonable to me that her powers are not unique within that group, seeing as the whole apostle thing is kind of a poorly executed justification of her powers.

You're still missing my point entirely. I didn't say her powers were stupid. I said that she's the only known person to have them, even in her own bloodline. No other apostle is known to have been able to heal injuries with a touch and sense danger.

My point was that what you're saying there is flat out wrong. There's really not much more to it than that.

So I wrote a whole big thing here and my writing was basically thinking through it, so it was hard to follow. Here's sort of where I ended up:

Characters should not change who they fundamentally are (most of the time). "Growth" (playing with connotation here, not denotation) is honestly a bad thing. This is Ike's problem: his issues are basically that he's inexperienced and actually has some prejudice (gasp) and his character arc is... those flaws get fixed. He's too malleable to the situation. He would have been more interesting if he kept up his prejudice, honestly. With Micaiah, instead, the aspects of her character are explored through the story, but she really doesn't change much. The situation doesn't deal with her, she deals with the situation. And her situation is hard and challenges who she fundamentally is and there's no easy way for her to deal with that. Ike is who he needs to be to get things done (and not in the sense that he willfully changes to get what he wants, in the sense that Ike's sort of like a deus ex machina) while Micaiah's prejudice affects how things turn out. That's, like, step one to writing a good character. Like, Hamlet ends the way it does because of what Hamlet does. Hedda Gabler ends the way it does because of how Hedda behaves. The Great Gatsby ends the way it does because, well, you get it. It's also probably not a coincidence that these could all be classified as tragedies. The characters don't just fix things. They break things.

You know what's funny? I don't even like Shakespeare (except for Julius Caesar) or The Great Gatsby. Ike still has some prejudice, actually, just not as much as before. He still hates nobles' lifestyle, he still hates a lot of nobles. He just doesn't hate all of them anymore.

Oh, I was saying that Ike was perfect. Those were my words. The person you've described is absolutely perfect and fixes everything and makes no (meaningful) mistakes. Micaiah gets people - good people - killed.

And doesn't express any feelings of guilt or sorrow for getting those people killed. This is why I don't like her.

I meant that, unless you fundamentally changed the characters, a well-written Micaiah would be better than a well-written Ike.

Again, I disagree. We'll just have to leave it at that. I'm done debating, because it's obviously not going to go anywhere.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Anacybele

[Genarog]

Favourite: Lyn. I just don't know how to justify this, but I've always loved her for apparently no reason. I like her story too, and even though she isn't much of a "Lord" in post 10 chapters, I still like her character. I also find her a very powerful unit.

Runner ups are Micaiah and Ephraim, Ephraim because of his battle prowness and because his yaoifriendship with Lyon is explored in a good way, and Micaiah because I like the Dawn Brigade in general, especially in part 3.

I don't really have a Least favourite lord, so I voted for Roy because of his lack of combact utility.

[Jave]

To be honest, it bothers me greatly when people say Micaiah is this uncaring bitch that shows no remorse for all the people she kills. If anything, she probably feels worse than any other Lord for what she does.

When you cut it down to the basics, previous lords just had to win a war in order to win. Just beat the bad guy and you're done.

Micaiah, OTOH, is put into a completely hopeless situation against her will with no winners outside of the real bad guys. She wasn't even allowed to ally with anyone or ask for a truce. It was basically "do as we say or you're fucked". All this because Pelleas didn't read the fine print. Seriously, I find it ridiculous Micaiah gets such hate yet Pelleas gets so many free passes when the climax of part 3 is the result of his own stupidity. Heck, the whole conflict comes to an end not because of an actual solution, but because of a Deus Ex Machina at the end of part 3.

I certainly wonder what the other lords would have done in Micaiah's shoes. I imagine dudes like Hector and Ephraim would have doomed their whole nations because of their "Break through the door, kill everything" philosophies. Others probably would have done similar to what Micaiah did.

[Anacybele]

I never said Micaiah was a bitch, nor do I think she's one. I just don't like how she treats people that aren't part of Daein and that we don't see any real details about why Daein finds her so special.

Also, truth be told, I don't like Pelleas either. I think he's too much of a clueless naive wimp.

[NoNameAtAll]

Also, truth be told, I don't like Pelleas either. I think he's too much of a clueless naive wimp.

Doesn't help he was raised by that shithead Izuka. When you don't know much about the world around you, guess what happens? You become naive.

[Anacybele]

Doesn't help he was raised by that shithead Izuka. When you don't know much about the world around you, guess what happens? You become naive.

Izuka didn't raise him, he just found him and filled his head with lies. We don't know who actually raised him. xP

[Loki Laufeyson]

To be honest, it bothers me greatly when people say Micaiah is this uncaring bitch that shows no remorse for all the people she kills.

Wait, who even said that? Part of Micaiah's character is that she doesnt like hurting people.

Poor Lyn, unloved, misunderstood and unfairly criticized.

Poor Lyn. Unloved, misunderstood, and unnecessary to her game. I think the thing people have against Lyn isnt her character as much as shes pretty much irrelevant after a certain point. So you have this third Lord thats a huge third wheel cuz she has no real bearing on the plot anymore. Shes actually a little better in Hector mode because she and Hector have some pretty interesting (character driven) exchanges. But sadly, Lyn is still irrelevant after the chapter she reappears in.

Funnily enough despite Ephraim's help Grado is probably one of the worst off countries of the series by the end since not only does it lose it's royal line, it gets hit by that huge climactic earthquake Lyon predicted with most other countries believe it's their diving punishment for being invasive assholes.

Grado's story is a really sad one. I think its why i found it to be the most interesting Magvel nation. The hideous karmic retribution and the game actually addresses the people of Grado's feelings on this. Its not a bad bit of writing for such a smaller game.

It's less about the logic of stealing the spotlight and more about the narrative way in which he steals the spotlight. They introduce a brand new (female) protagonist and let the player get to know the scenario only do completely put her on the backburner for the rest of the game. In my opinion playing host to Yune was even more detrimental to Micaiah since it meant she essentially got replaced by another character again for the last chapter.

Im ok with most of how Part 3 handled Ike and Micaiah. Seeing them conflict and us being able to play as both sides was brilliant stuff. Seeing Elincia's viewpoint on this was also pretty gr9. GMs did get a little too many chapters, yeah, but im ok with how each of our protagonists were dealt with for the most part. Its the bolded i have strongly agree with. Yune using Micaiah as a vessel further robbed Micaiah of any more development. This hijacking was fucking painful and led to some of the worst executed plot bombs. Part 4 is awful.

[Jotari]

Of course I've played the damn game. Why else would RD be listed as my favorite FE? And I never said Micaiah didn't care about Daein. I said Daein is the ONLY thing she cares for. She doesn't give a damn at all about innocent Crimeans, Begnion people, or laguz. She only cares about them if they join her cause. Otherwise, they don't matter one bit.

Micaiah definitely cares for people, she just proritizes the people of her country which is understandable.She is definitely upset and conflicted by what she has to do. If you want to truly see a character who ONLY cares for their own country then play Fire Emblem 4 and have a look at Trabant.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Jotari

[Potato123]

Why is chrom not winning for worst?

[Rewjeo]

Because Micaiah is frail and slow and Roy is just bad as a unit. Also Awakening is still in a different phase of its life than the other FEs.

[Potato123]

Isn't this based on personality though? If not then I agree with you.

[Nobody]

Favorite: Eirika

Least favorite: Micaiah.

Why is Eirika my favorite? Because she always thinks of the problems war brings. She knows she has to save not only her country, but the entire world and the people on the other countries aren't to blame for the war. A sensible and interesting character.

Micaiah is my least favorite because she loves to victimize her country without realizing all the mess they're into is their own fault. She blames Ike and the crimeans for the situation of her country even though daein started the war. She would do anything to save her country, even destroy the rest of the world, without even thinking twice. Blind and unjustified patriotism, especially considering she's considered an abomination by her racist country (well, that's how they see the branded).

Edited March 18, 2014 by Nobody

[PKL]

It wasn't Daein's fault, it was Ashnard that invaded. Daein just simply obeyed their mad King. What could they have done?

[-Cynthia-]

I guess they could have rebelled against Ashnard?

But yeah, I actually like FE10 for not going "Daein is full of terrible people" and showing that while Daein was the aggressor in the Mad King's War they are most definitely the victims in the Begnion occupation. It's a nice role reversal that more closely mimics the real world.

[PKL]

I guess they could have rebelled against Ashnard?

But yeah, I actually like FE10 for not going "Daein is full of terrible people" and showing that while Daein was the aggressor in the Mad King's War they are most definitely the victims in the Begnion occupation. It's a nice role reversal that more closely mimics the real world.

Yeah. That's something FE10 got right in my eyes too.

[Anacybele]

I guess they could have rebelled against Ashnard?

Rebel against Ashnard? The guy who pit people against one another so he can recruit the ones left alive in his army and abandoned his own infant son? And had guys like the Black Knight at his disposal? Yeah right. xP

Crimeans rebelling against Elincia was different, she wasn't any sadistic psychopath.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Anacybele

[Rewjeo]

She would do anything to save her country, even destroy the rest of the world, without even thinking twice.

How many times does this have to come up? Seriously, it's plain not true. She tries to get out of it without fighting, but in the end has to fight the laguz. Really, how many people here, if they were told "go to war or literally your entire country dies of a horrible plague" would choose to kill their country?

[-Cynthia-]

Rebel against Ashnard? The guy who pit people against one another so he can recruit the ones left alive in his army and abandoned his own infant son? And had guys like the Black Knight at his disposal? Yeah right. xP

Crimeans rebelling against Elincia was different, she wasn't any sadistic psychopath.

A number of good reasons why they did not rebel against Ashnard, even if the people of Daein did not support their policies.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Favorite: Eirika

Least favorite: Micaiah.

Why is Eirika my favorite? Because she always thinks of the problems war brings. She knows she has to save not only her country, but the entire world and the people on the other countries aren't to blame for the war. A sensible and interesting character.

Its ok. I love Eirika a lot too. I dont really get why people dont like her. Shes a great big sweetie.

I guess they could have rebelled against Ashnard?

But yeah, I actually like FE10 for not going "Daein is full of terrible people" and showing that while Daein was the aggressor in the Mad King's War they are most definitely the victims in the Begnion occupation. It's a nice role reversal that more closely mimics the real world.

Yeah. One of my favorite chapters in PoR was Defending Talrega because of that reason. Its nice to see the other side.

[Refa]

People dislike Eirika? Like I don't think that she's the most liked character or whatever, but I always thought Lyn was the go to girl when talking about most disliked FE characters.

[Loki Laufeyson]

People dislike Eirika? Like I don't think that she's the most liked character or whatever, but I always thought Lyn was the go to girl when talking about most disliked FE characters.

People think Eirika is ~naive~ and ~uninteresting~ or even ~static~

Kinda silly. Shes great. Lyn is also not Most Hated. Micaiah is the controversial FE gal.

[BrightBow]

I'm not sure about you, but I have yet to take up arms against my own country when I didn't agree with it's military interventions. Even ignoring that such an act would require a change of respective, an opportunity which nobody but Jill got, rebelling against Ashnard is an unfair expectation to have.

As for Eirika, maybe her reputation was tainted by the "CoY" episodes, where she turned into an unhinged brute.

"I've come here to put an end to it—and to you!"

"Just as I thought: you ARE brigands! Prepare to die!"

"Brigands! Deceivers! I will strike you ALL down!"

"As you wish. I will strike down any wrongdoers."

Thankfully that didn't carry over into the the rest of the DLC but CoY1 just so happened to be the one you got for free for a while.

Edited March 19, 2014 by BrightBow

[Anacybele]

I don't dislike Eirika. She's probably my favorite female lord, in fact.