Exploring the paths between "noobs" and "efficient" players.

[Tamanoir]

So, I consider myself more of a casual player, but this vision have a kinda bad press around here,

and even if I did things considered "noobish", I find this vision pretty insulting and reductive.

(Besides, what is considered noobish now (Arena Abuse, not using Jeigans or prepromote) was the favorite way of playing some years ago,

so be carefull when you use this world. It doesn't have a lots of meaning)

So, I was thinking how to find one, or more likely several, ways between these two extremes.

What I want here is to find alternative ways to play the game, different than "efficiency" (LTC, among others), or "hardcore" (Lunatic Club, amongst others).

This doesn't have to be challenging, though self-imposed challenge are one of the options (things like female-only, for example).

So, I thought about my type of play, and I think I will define it as "experimentation".

The best example is the different pairings in FE4. Trying different pairings that seems strange at first, but can have surprising results (things like Lex!Arthur, or Azel!Delmud).

I also like using different characters in different playthrugh. If you can use anyone, then it's a good opportunity to try it.

And with things like reclass, or character's child, it offers a lot of interresting options.

So, what are your ways to play, not based on performance, but that you think are interresting ?

Please share your opinions about the subject here.

Oh, and obviously, this isn't a place to bash one of the camps.

I have nothing against LTC, nor against Lunatic players.

The same way, if you play only with characters you like appearance, or story ways, there's nothing wrong with that.

I want this topic to be a way to enlarge and exchange about the different other ways we can play.

Please, let's stay civil and respectuous here.

Edited April 4, 2013 by TendaSlime

[Yoshikage Kira]

Personally, no Jeigans or prepromotes is kinda my thing. I get a kick out of taking weak units and training them up to really strong. I also specialize my groups, like one of every weapon type. So I end up with a group of usually 10-12 characters (depending on the game) who are all 20/20 and specialists in different weapons. I would never do LTC, because honestly, I wouldn't know where to start. I do Hard Mode every once in a while, but for the most part I prefer Normal Mode. I am le 'casual player,' who doesn't give a shit about ratings. I'll sit there for 50 turns waiting for a support. Also, fuck the idea of tiers. I understand why they exist for LTC, but for normal gameplay I'll just use whoever I please, thank you.

[Chocolate Kitty]

I usually play pretty much any style(other than LTC because I just find it boring as all hell), and I normally don't use prepromos myself(Lunatic mode forces you to sadly). I think people just consider something noobish if they don't enjoy doing it themselves. Unless it's something like... Idk, I can't even think of an example where it would be valid, letting every character die or something maybe?

I also try to use almost every character in all of the FEs I use and also try out different pairing, since doing the same thing over and over is boring to me(hence why I'm not an LTCer).

tl; dr

play however you like, there's no point in getting upset because someone doesn't play the same way you do

[Jedi]

I try to change up how I play. I'll do LTC, ranked, casual, and a fun style that Specta introduced to me called randomized but yeah. I play fire emblem many different ways, play the series how you want. No complaints from me on the subject.

[CT075]

the only person who isn't a noob around here is me

everyone should do things the same way i do

[DarkBladeSeth]

My own rules for a "fair" playthrough

- Don't Arena abuse

- Don't boss abuse

- Play on hard (No stuff like Lunatic)

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

I usually use characters that seems cool and if i liked their stats.

For example, in FE5 i used Glade because he is cool, and he has a rather solid stats.

Its just most of the time, the characters that i find cool are "stereotypically" those that are loved by LTC players.

Also i usually have an absurd luck with the Jeigans which means i don't even need other characters when one of those are enough.

[Shin]

the only person who isn't a noob around here is me

everyone should do things the same way i do

But you use Nino and make her A support with Rebecca!

My usual playstyle when I'm not drafting is pseudo-efficient/LTC. I won't hang around grinding but I'll use the dudes I want as far as I can.

[Espinosa]

I honestly don't see this forum going out of its way to condemn "n00bs" or anybody else; usually it's the opposite with specific individuals refusing to see that FE is a strategy RPG and that grinding characters up to 20/20 is by no means necessary to complete the game and refusing to listen to anybody else.

A union between LTC and "causality" does exist. There's such a thing as "casual efficiency" or reliable efficiency which assumes the player is interested in turns but will not leave characters at anywhere above negligible risk of death, a flexible format adapted in most tier lists (though occasionally somebody will propose that this should assume a lack of skill as well, e.g. not knowing what weapons to forge and which characters to use). Restricted runs do exist and don't have to neglect turns at all, for example drafters are always interested in turns in a context of lacking a full team.

And I'm 99% sure most of the players still think in the exact way you describe: they try to cap everyone's stats instead of using stats to complete the game, train their favourite characters and share stories about how somebody got RNG screwed/blessed or dodged every single attack at 1 HP.

[CT075]

But you use Nino and make her A support with Rebecca!

and you don't?

noob

[ZemZem]

Guys. Guys. Rebecca/Nino A support gives both insane bonuses. Fire/Fire FTW.

My favorite play style is drafting, which is LTC in a way. I like having different teams every time, and finding out how each character is efficient is pretty fun. Outside of drafting, my playthroughs are a combination of Casual/LTC. I use whoever the hell I want, but I still try to beat the chapters ASAP.

[Refa]

I use Jeigans because it's a thing other RPGs just don't do...for the most part (SMT1 rulez). It's nice having one dude/Titania who can kick ass early on so that the difficulty curve doesn't have to be completely backwards.

[Knight]

I like to play Fire Emblem experimentally. On one run I'll use different characters than others just to see how it turns out. I pay no attention to tiers or LTC, it's all about looking at the glorious endgame stats.

[sunshineYON]

I play so that I can have the most fun and get the most enjoyment out of it. This should be the philosophy for all.

[Samias]

I play for fun in whatever style I feel, but I never really noticed how much better at the game I was than the average person until I started micromanaging my boyfriend's tactics. Some of the trade/rescue/pair up shenanigans I pull are things that never occur to him. Most of the more vocal people on SF are way better at the game than I am but generally even casual longtime fans who still arena abuse or grind Valni, etc can strategize significantly better than a new player. I wouldn't really call someone who plays FE Jeigenless and with arena abuse a noob, just someone who makes a conscious decision about their objectives in-game.

[Florete]

So, I consider myself more of a casual player, but this vision have a kinda bad press around here,

and even if I did things considered "noobish", I find this vision pretty insulting and reductive.

(Besides, what is considered noobish now (Arena Abuse, not using Jeigans or prepromote) was the favorite way of playing some years ago,

so be carefull when you use this world. It doesn't have a lots of meaning)

I honestly don't see this forum going out of its way to condemn "n00bs" or anybody else; usually it's the opposite with specific individuals refusing to see that FE is a strategy RPG and that grinding characters up to 20/20 is by no means necessary to complete the game and refusing to listen to anybody else.

A union between LTC and "causality" does exist. There's such a thing as "casual efficiency" or reliable efficiency which assumes the player is interested in turns but will not leave characters at anywhere above negligible risk of death, a flexible format adapted in most tier lists (though occasionally somebody will propose that this should assume a lack of skill as well, e.g. not knowing what weapons to forge and which characters to use). Restricted runs do exist and don't have to neglect turns at all, for example drafters are always interested in turns in a context of lacking a full team.

And I'm 99% sure most of the players still think in the exact way you describe: they try to cap everyone's stats instead of using stats to complete the game, train their favourite characters and share stories about how somebody got RNG screwed/blessed or dodged every single attack at 1 HP.

Seriously. Where are you even seeing the word "noob" being used around here? Ever since the idea of efficiency was adopted at all (and probably before, but I wouldn't know), tier debaters will tell others they can play how they want and there's nothing wrong with that. No one thinks you're any less of a Fire Emblem fan for playing casually; I do this most of the time myself.

But anyway...I typically just use the characters I find fun to use. This will often leave a Jagen like Seth out because he's too good to be fun. I like using characters who start weak, but someone who just starts too weak like Fiona I might ignore most of the time. I have no particular bias against pre-promoted units, though I do tend to prefer unpromoted units first. And in most games I play on the hardest difficulty, Awakening right now being the only exception.

[RJWalker]

Personally, I've never understood the appeal of limiting myself with weird restrictions or blitzing through the game. I feel it takes away from the enjoyment of the game. However, if that's what someone finds enjoyable, then fine. How am I to argue?

Look at me for example. I train everyone. And I mean everyone. Every single unit gets grinded up. Then I never use them again. Why? Because it feels weird to leave them out completely. Also, I don't drop characters that come in pairs or have counterparts or such. If I;m using the green cavalier, then I WILL use the red one too. If I'm using the early game myrmidon, then I WILL use the early game mercenary too. If two characters are friends or associates, I am compelled to use them both. I don't know why. It's just something I do.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Ranger Jack Walker

[Thor Odinson]

I see more people condemning Jeigan use (not on this site, but in general) the second they see the Jeigan unit ever getting any kills, tbh.

I prefer characters with better bases since my playstyle is all about murdering shits the fastest and weak-ass shits get in the way of that. Growth units that end up staying on my team are either those who I like as characters or those who have good bases to start anyway and gets good enough levels. I'd rather focus my time developing strategies and positioning than worrying about green numbers or not, and there's many times where there's characters I'd like to use, but gets RNG screwed enough and doesn't have the bases to back it up, like every time I try to use Sain in HHM he'll never get speed for 10 levels, whereas Seth I find fun to use 'cuz he'll just murderface things forever and that's what i like. It just depends on preference, really.

[Hawkeye]

So I've played Fire Emblem for a decently long time (8 years or so) and this is how it went for me: When I started playing FE7 and FE8 at first I was obviously just screwing around, doing whatever, because I really didn't know anything about the game. I know I thought Kent was a cool character and that's honestly the only specific I remember because this was a long time ago. I find at this stage a lot of people will do things like promoting units at level 10, let the odd unit die, and use Jeigans because they're so powerful.

Then as I got more used to the game, learned about stuff like growth rates, looked at character comparison guides and whatnot, I moved towards what I would consider to be the "standard" casual style of play. This is where you stop using Jeigans because they gain barely any experience from kills, you probably stop letting units die, and you only promote at level 20. I'm pretty sure most FE players reach that at some point, and then there are a lot of different ways for people to go.

Lots of people just stick with that playstyle and never do anything else, and that's great. People keep playing to try new units, or maybe they keep using the same units and they just enjoy the gameplay. People try different things like beating the game on the highest difficulty, or using various self-imposed restrictions. These forums are a great place to see lots of those, like dondon's 0% growths runs or ZM's archers-only runs. Then of course we have the people who move into efficient play. This generally just means beating the game quickly, removing things like arena abuse, boss abuse, or grinding supports. Further expanding on efficient play we have drafts, which are just efficient play while being able to use only a fraction of the cast, or LTC, which is doing everything possible to beat the game in literally the least amount of turns possible (see Olwen's recent FE10 playthrough).

In my case, I was strictly a casual player for years. Then I joined my first draft back in September, and I started moving more towards an efficient playstyle (read: I did extremely poorly in this draft). With the drafting playstyle you see a lot of characteristics of the completely clueless n00b coming back into play: Using Jeigans because you understand that a character being good at the start is a paradigm shift, not a flaw, promoting units early because you want them to get stronger quickly/get a mount/get the ability to use new weapons, and letting units die occasionally (usually just not recruiting units that start as enemies). People who don't play like this often think that trying to focus on strategies to beat the game as quickly as possible is "rushing through it" and takes all the enjoyment out of the game, but honestly I have never enjoyed Fire Emblem as much as I do now. The way this playstyle makes you think appeals to me, and now even when I'm not drafting I play efficiently, because I do honestly find it more fun. It's not just because I'm bored with the games either. While that could be the case for say, FE7, which I've played to death over the years, but I also draft games that I've only completed once, and my first playthrough of FE12 is a draft. Okay I didn't mean to type a novel, but that's what Fire Emblem has been for me.

Also, the only people I have ever seen making claims about efficient players belittling casual players are people who are themselves casual players.

tl;dr Casual is fun, efficiency is fun, fun is good.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Hawkeye

[Chiki]

I play hardcore LTC and avoid Jeigans where possible.

[eclipse]

I do whatever the voices in my head tell me to. Sometimes, I'll super-train one unit to see what he/she/it can do. Othertimes, I streak through the game. I like drafting, because it's "how low can you get your turn counts while using a sub-optimal team?" (and that's assuming that the entrants don't RNG abuse to make things work). If Character X isn't good in an efficient playthrough, So What? The universe won't implode if people refuse to see video game strategy your way!

(that goes for every single view)

[Jimmy_Smith]

My playstyle change from game to game, but it's has something in common.

I rarely use rescue-drop or warp skip to cut turn, but other than that, I try to clear a chapter as fast as I can.

I try to use Jeigan archtype as little as possible, but in some game it's can't be avoid to get acceptable turncount (early chapter in FE9, and acceptable turncount is max BEXP bonus)

I try to use characters with different class, and always regret later on (EX. try to use all type of tome in FE10, that's mean use weak character like Ilyana and ever Pelleas)

I always use a specific character to land a last blow to kill some boss, depend on story.