Shipping Mafia - Rule 9a invoked for universal loss

[CT075]

(yes i'm aware that was a post with literally nothing of use in it but this is my lunch period and i need this time to do homework; will scrape something together once i get back from sports in a few hours)

[charlie_]

I'm still not liking Grass, I'll be frank, but after rereading Ether's ISO I'm not happy with his play.

[spoiler=mostly useless stuff in rvs]

Alright, so it begins. It looks like we still start D1 with that toss votes at anyone and everyone because you felt like it, stage? Don't mind me, but I think I'll refrain for the time being.

There's no real reason in holding it back, same as there really isn't any reason to throw a single vote on someone just for random lolz. I'm just biding my time, basically.

RVS isn't going to put pressure on someone, unless it becomes a wagon. A single vote in RVS is not any sort of pressure, because it's just that, random and baseless.

But fine, have it your way.

##Vote: Manix

Stahp it Manix stahp it.

The reason why I voted you was because you wanted me to throw a vote into RVS, so I did. You seemed as good a place as any for it, considering how pushy you're being over voting without any rhyme or reason aside from hoping someone slips to D1 votes that don't have anything behind them yet. Consider me a relic of the past, but I find RVS pretty pointless, I dunno if people think it's important nowadays.

But regardless, I'm not all that keen on how quick people piled on, so ##Unvote for now.

Why don't you like how quickly people piled on Manix? I don't like this, it's pretty easy to say "I don't like this wagon" without giving any reasoning.

Eh, not really. I don't have any sort of reads this early, it just sort of got on my nerves a little, is all. It's like I said, you wanted me to vote someone, and you were as good a place as any for it to go.

##Vote: Grassbridger

As for right now, I'm not overly fond of the vote pile on Manix.

Again, why are you worried about it? The reasoning for the Grass vote is pretty vague, and there's only one point to your argument.

##Unvote: Grassbridger

Yeah, I see it now. That's a workable enough explanation, even if the vote timing was a little wonky. Oh well, it isn't a huge tell regardless. As for what's been going on since I left, I have to agree with Manix that I think all of the votes on Shinori seem a bit excessive.

With regards to BBM, he seems way too stuck on the lying thing for my liking. Everyone lies in mafia at some point or another, town, mafia, or third party. If you say you don't, well... that's a lie =P. To be honest, it feels to me like he's just trying to forge an early wagon, so...

##Vote: BBM

I would also like to see those who have been silent talk, as has been mentioned prior. If I missed anything, let me know. I'm pretty bad for forgetting things as I'm posting.

Here, Ether backs down off of Grass (not saying what he thinks of Grass), and says all of the votes on Shinori are excessive, without giving any reasoning for it. He sounds kind of like he's trying to stay neutral there though, since he hasn't actually said what he thinks of Shinori, or the people voting for him. Doesn't like BBM's vendetta against lying (no problem with this, although antitown are forced to lie anyway) but I don't see the early wagon forging thing, and he hasn't cited anything or said why he feels that way.

My latter votes didn't really mean all that much, to be honest, Xinnidy. When there is this little concrete info to go off of, I'll toss a vote at things that make me feel uneasy, give me pause, something like that. I don't agree with the part of RVS which implies tossing a vote on someone for the sake of voting, but even small things can garner potential for a vote depending on what else is happening at the time. I voted Grassbridger because at the time, his vote seemed opportunistic. I switched it to BBM because he was overly harping over something that should usually be expected.

At the moment, I have to say I'm actually having some trouble following current talks. It looks like a back and forth over a misunderstanding to me, and I don't really have a concrete idea of where it's going just yet. On that note, not much has really changed since I posted last, so I'll leave my vote as is for now.

"My latter votes didn't really mean all that much", like I mentioned before this gives me massive scumvibes. I also don't like how he seems to be talking like it's still RVS, and hasn't even made an effort to touch on anything in the last page aside from the comment he's replying to.

Pretty much Ether's votes on people have mostly been due to one thing they posted for one reason that he hasn't backed up with anything, aside from his BBM vote for which he had 2 reasons for. Generally, he hasn't been scumhunting, just saying that he lacks reads, so rather than going back and rereading he doesn't do anything about it. I don't have a clue if he actually thinks that the people he's been voting for are scum or not, since he's been pretty vague also.

##Unvote

##Vote: Ether

[Strege]

So BBM, Cam, SB, Strege, and Xinny; all of you state your reasons for picking your RVS votes as above.

I voted BBM because I don't think I can read him well, and on N0 he was oddly confident that alignments weren't determined yet. I'm still nullreading him though -- he went from policing the thread (I don't mean that negatively) to weirdly tunneling, but I feel like BBM would exit less conspicuously than this if he was hiding something.

Note these posts in order; BBM is certain that people don't have alignments pre-game, and Manix is unsure of it. I feel like one of these might be a slip, more likely Manix than BBM due to wording (yes I'm the wording Nazi I know).

Elie, why do you feel that one of them might be a slip?

SB's improved a bit in my eyes due to activity and his language. I know these reasons are kind of vague, which is why I'm not taking my vote off of him right now. I sympathize with the exam schedule but I'm still scumreading scorri -- she has a lot to prove when she comes back. I don't share the scumread of Manix -- he's been drawing a lot of attention when he didn't need to, and has promoted activity when things start getting quiet, which seem like needless risks for scum. I agree with SB that Ether's content warrants some suspicion, but SB telegraphed that he was looking after Ether -- not sure what to make of that exactly.

I'm not sure I'll have the chance to post for another ~9 hours, but I'll try to get something up then.

Candy box is great.

[Grassbridger]

Manix: I feel like asking people to explain RVS votes, at this point, is trying to keep us in the RVS. Yes, we want to hold people accountable, but (a) you seem to have missed me asking for (and receiving) a vote explanation from Xinnidy despite the exchange lasting several posts, and (b) there's a lot more content that *you* could be talking about than RVS votes.

Maybe your self-QT quote was a cleverly constructed ploy... Anyway you've been actively commenting on how nullish the game is reading, but if you dig there's reads to be found. Going back to page 1 and asking about RVS isn't digging.

I'd vote for you--I'm finding you scummy--but not as scummy as SB, so there my vote stays.

[charlie_]

Manix makes those quicktopics every game (and this time I'm trying one too, although it's not helping much.)

I'll claim if necessary, I'd rather not repeat the past.

[scorri]

Why do I need to prove myself? What do I have to prove?

But lets see...

Scorri did some warranted self-defense and two minor prods, but hasn't really pressured anyone and isn't voting for anyone right now.

Alright. This is literally your only mention of why you find me scummy. So, lets see. I'm voting Shinori, have been pressuring him, and still enjoy my vote there for now. So unless you have new reasons why you think I'm scummy, I don't see any reason why I need to prove anything to you. You, on the other hand, claim you're feeling better about SB but you're not moving your vote because your reasons are vague. You then say that I need to prove myself, that you don't think Manix is scum, and that you agree with SB but maybe not.

[Xinnidy]

Okay gonna get people to explain their RVS votes in this post (if they haven't already said anything about them)

So BBM, Cam, SB, Strege, and Xinny; all of you state your reasons for picking your RVS votes as above.

If you want an explanation on why I voted Shinori, it was mostly RVS, though I based loosely on the fact I didn't talk to him N0 and saw him reading the thread without posting at the time, so I wanted to prod him for something. My current assessment of Shinori should be in another paragraph.

That would still be it.

Xinnidy: ok, sure, using profiles to see when people are around had never occurred to me. (This is only my second online game.)

Fair. I don't think I took that into account either.

I have a question still: what is your read on BBM? I've noticed that, until you voted SB, you had a vote on him and it never really got a reaction, nor did I see you passing a new opinion on him.

More Manix fun. Is this really something that needs to be called out so early in the game? It's been almost one Day phase and you're already calling potshots as if you're the unanimously agreed on town-leader or something.

If you're going to call Manix out for wanting Cam hypothetically vigged if he keeps the apathy and doesn't give enough content to work with, have in mind I've suggested the same at the end of this post, so I'd have disagree with that being a stance to try to 'call the potshots', and wonder what your read on me is with that in mind.

yes i will once i finish my chinese project (due tomorrow) or potentially during study hall tonight

That's either cutting it close to or at N1, then... very well. I will await your content.

Shinori, do you still feel your read on SB? Considering I haven't seen you giving an opinion on him for a while, and I just saw you reading the thread.

I gotta leave now to the amazing world of concentrated study, this post was kinda all over the place and I'm not sure it served my purpose, but I'll get back to it tonight.

[Grassbridger]

I have a question still: what is your read on BBM? I've noticed that, until you voted SB, you had a vote on him and it never really got a reaction, nor did I see you passing a new opinion on him.

I guess he's fallen off my radar a bit. I still find him a little scummy for the same reasons I did when I voted him, but he apparently fell off the face of the earth yesterday and I have stronger reads now (SB and maybe Manix).

[BBM]

I pretty much picked someone at random for my RVS vote. I didn't really bother looking for alignment stuff on N0 because after talking to a few people I realized that most people, if not all, didn't have an alignment or role yet. So the only way I've factored in N0 has been to try and find odd changes in behaviour from N0 to D1, which is why I was pushing Shinori for a while.

Now, ##Vote: Strege

In his first content-post, he calls out SB and Scorri. What he said about Scorri there is true, but in his most recent post, I feel like he's not really making any attempt to update his reads with what has happened to that point. It's true that at the point of his first post, all Scorri had really done was say her viewpoint on RVS, but by that next post, she'd said stuff about Shinori and produced some content. Not a lot, admittedly, but enough that his original point was no longer applicable. As for SB, he says that SB is scummy for particularly focusing on Cam for being inactive when others have been so as well, but he's sort of misrepping SB here. SB was pressuring Cam for having low content despite making posts- the exact same thing that Strege is calling SB and Scorri out for. His stance on SB in the latest post was weird because he pointed out good stuff about SB while still saying it wasn't enough and keeping his vote there. And then later in the post he also agrees with SB, his vote, on something. It's not something that's disallowed, but still kinda offputting. He also has a post in the middle which is literally just a one-line question, which is bad because there were around 24 hours and 40 posts between his first post and that one, so quoting one post out of all that and asking a question about that is bleh. Both that question, and the one to Elie in the recent post, are kind of just there and don't seem to have much of a purpose.

[charlie_]

Uh, BBM? The first 2 links are the same (tell me if I'm missing something so I can smack the wall against my head)

[BBM]

For me at least, the first link goes to Post 94 and the second link goes to Post 153.

[charlie_]

Or... I could be an absolute moron.

Carry on.

[BBM]

SB, since you're here and you've read my case, what do you think about it?

We don't need a majority for a lynch, but an extension would probably still be good.

[charlie_]

I can agree on some of the points there (mainly the stuff about how he said I was improving but didn't move his vote. Would like to know what this:

but SB telegraphed that he was looking after Ether -- not sure what to make of that exactly.

is supposed to mean too.

[Shinori]

##Unvote:

I still feel kind of uneasy about SB but I don't see too much reason in keeping my vote on him at the moment.

My new vote is gonna go here:

##Vote: Balcerzak

After a very lengthy post he dropped his vote down on me for what looks like pressure and his thought that I was contradicting myself which a lot of people say I did so I would say that's justified.(I still say I didn't.)

However directly before he posted I had posted and he followed it up by mentioning that he noticed he was cut by me and that he would address it later. Then he commented about how BBM had been pushing me the entire time but not pushing me, which seems to me as if he was trying to put suspicions onto BBM.

Since this, two whole days ago, he hasn't posted once. He did not address my post. He hasn't been here to post anything at all. I understand that people can and will be busy but I feel like he's more or less skimming by at the moment and I don't like that.

[charlie_]

Shinori: if you feel uneasy about me, why move your vote over to someone who's even less likely to be lynched?

[CT075]

this post of Ether did seem scummy, but then I realized, he is actually trying to do something productive, unlike me who feels the same way and is unable to do anything to do some scum hunting. So, even though I cannot say who is scummy and why, I can say that I think Ether is town.( for being in the same boat as I am)

i have to disagree with this; it seems like you're saying "this is scummy but i'm going to let it slide because i would do the same thing"

something that's scummy is still scummy, regardless of whether one agrees- honestly i don't have any problem if you people lynch me for not particularly caring about the game since i would do the same

I have no reads on Cam, who seems to be trying to live through the day by doing as little as possible

yeah pretty accurate

it's partially because i have a bunch of major projects that i hadn't expected to be as time-consuming as they were/are; i can't really spare the attention span until probably tomorrow night

Manix: I feel like asking people to explain RVS votes, at this point, is trying to keep us in the RVS. Yes, we want to hold people accountable, but (a) you seem to have missed me asking for (and receiving) a vote explanation from Xinnidy despite the exchange lasting several posts, and (b) there's a lot more content that *you* could be talking about than RVS votes.

this just reeks of a misrep to me

while i can't see any gain asking about RVS shenanigans, i also can't see any harm in doing so. it's not like we're going to just revert to throwing our votes around wildly every which way just because we were asked about it. having more information on motivations (especially in a game with N0 OC) is always helpful.

you also call him out for not talking about other things even though he's been one of the most active people in the thread

I'd vote for you--I'm finding you scummy--but not as scummy as SB, so there my vote stays.

there is something very off-putting about this that i can't quite place my finger on

---

Now, my vote. I'm not feeling very good about Ether. Everything SB said rings true, but there's one other thing I kind of want to know- Ether, why did you back down so quickly from your anti-RVS thing? From the way you just gave up and voting Manix, it sounded kind of like you were doing it just to get everyone off your back.

Edited May 7, 2013 by CT075

[CT075]

oh shit fuck me i just edited didn't i

i blame the rich text editor (all i did was attempt to fix a quote tag)

[Shinori]

@ SB: Cause he needs to do something. I don't feel that he should get to slide by the entire day phase.

[Shinori]

And even though I feel uneasy about you it is partially a gut feeling.

[charlie_]

This isn't the time for a pressure vote, this is time to consolidate lynches, since we only have 8 or 9 hours left (I think.)

[CT075]

let's see...

(blitz post)

this post of Ether did seem scummy, but then I realized, he is actually trying to do something productive, unlike me who feels the same way and is unable to do anything to do some scum hunting. So, even though I cannot say who is scummy and why, I can say that I think Ether is town.( for being in the same boat as I am)

i have to disagree with this; it seems like you're saying "this is scummy but i'm going to let it slide because i would do the same thing"

something that's scummy is still scummy, regardless of whether one agrees- honestly i don't have any problem if you people lynch me for not particularly caring about the game since i would do the same

I have no reads on Cam, who seems to be trying to live through the day by doing as little as possible

yeah pretty accurate

it's partially because i have a bunch of major projects that i hadn't expected to be as time-consuming as they were/are; i can't really spare the attention span until probably tomorrow night

(Grassbridger post)

Manix: I feel like asking people to explain RVS votes, at this point, is trying to keep us in the RVS. Yes, we want to hold people accountable, but (a) you seem to have missed me asking for (and receiving) a vote explanation from Xinnidy despite the exchange lasting several posts, and (b) there's a lot more content that *you* could be talking about than RVS votes.

this just reeks of a misrep to me

while i can't see any gain asking about RVS shenanigans, i also can't see any harm in doing so. it's not like we're going to just revert to throwing our votes around wildly every which way just because we were asked about it. having more information on motivations (especially in a game with N0 OC) is always helpful.

you also call him out for not talking about other things even though he's been one of the most active people in the thread

I'd vote for you--I'm finding you scummy--but not as scummy as SB, so there my vote stays.

there is something very off-putting about this that i can't quite place my finger on

---

Now, my vote. I'm not feeling very good about Ether. Everything SB said rings true, but there's one other thing I kind of want to know- Ether, why did you back down so quickly from your anti-RVS thing? From the way you just gave up and voting Manix, it sounded kind of like you were doing it just to get everyone off your back.

---

Also, can I ask that phase be extended?

[CT075]

wow i really hate this thing

[Shinori]

Well frankly if I remember correctly the people with the most votes are me and ether and I don't feel like lynching either of those.

Well there was also a couple votes on you SB but I don't know.

Like I said I feel uneasy about you but it's partially gut based and I'm not too confident in it.

[Grassbridger]

this just reeks of a misrep to me

while i can't see any gain asking about RVS shenanigans, i also can't see any harm in doing so. it's not like we're going to just revert to throwing our votes around wildly every which way just because we were asked about it. having more information on motivations (especially in a game with N0 OC) is always helpful.

you also call him out for not talking about other things even though he's been one of the most active people in the thread

there is something very off-putting about this that i can't quite place my finger on

What?? Misrep? All I said was that he was asking about RVS votes (which he was, unambiguously) and then gave my opinion (that it is holding us closer to RVS than useful scumhunting), which is not "representing" anything he said so it can't be a misrep. Unless you're referring to my point (a) about having already asked Xinnidy for an explanation, which is completely valid since he said he was going for people who hadn't explained anything yet, and Xinnidy definitely did.

Anyway, asking people for RVS explanations is likely to result in "well it was RVS" or "well there was something vague n0 that bothered me" (see SB's explanation for his vote on you). These are not productive for the town, and are distracting from any productive discussions that the town may actually be having.

"Calling Manix out" for not talking about other things? Yes, Manix has been very active, but here's what his last 30 hours consists of:

-1 quick response/clarification post

-2 "All my reads are null" posts

-1 "Explain RVS" post

-1 "where are the inactives" post

-1 post calling for vigging Cam due to dearth of reads

Zero scumreads. He says there are some people he finds scummier than others, but doesn't mention who. Yes, I think there are other things he could be talking about other than RVS. Where's the vote update he promised?

All that said... I don't think he's as scummy as SB, and that's where my vote is staying. Why does that bother you? Maybe I should elaborate on my position on SB. Post on that to follow.