Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Keep in mind the Rtus do not strictly adhere to one playstyle. So claiming stuff like "Sully will never get a early second seal" is pointless. Reclass to wyvern is legitimately a great choice, and only makes Sully that much better. Just because it's not Avatar/Panne doesn't mean it should be entirely ignored. It may not do too much for her durability wise (until 15, in which it shoots up), but her attack skyrockets. Sully's durability is literally the same as Chrom's. Weird that no one here complains about Chrom's lacking defenses but all of a sudden Sully can't take a hit, huh. Stahl loses a great deal of def/str, movement, better skills, and most importantly, 2 range if he goes to myrmidon. So yes, he can get speed, in exchange for literally everything else. You're arguing over a whole half of a point, by the way. First off I was arguing that it's a bad choice. I agree that she can take a second seal but it has a high opportunity cost and generally isn't worth it. I don't like Chrom's defenses either it just hasn't ever come up. What I meant by his second seal was he could take it late-game if his speed is bad. It's not at all optimal but it's possible. I know, I'm sitting in my chair sick. I have nothing better to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I would disagree with it being a bad choice. Getting a shitload more attack, flight, and arguably better skills definitely seems to outweigh weakness to bows and some magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 The problem is getting Stahl's speed high enough to reliably double. His reclass options are pretty bad. You can scream tonics, pair up, whatever, but Sullly can do the exact same to greatly bolster her str. Not only that, but Sully can possibly fly (with axes, no less), while Stahl's stuck on the ground. Deliverer's fantastic, and both promotions greatly help her durability if you get to 15. I'm just going to point something out quickly. Stahl even as an uber squishy myrm has a higher defense growth rate than sully. He also still gets better strength with comprable skill and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) He loses 3 def off the bat, and is stuck with 1 range swords, which greatly hurts both his offense and defense. Growths aren't everything. Edited May 25, 2013 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Also.... loss of mounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I would disagree with it being a bad choice. Getting a shitload more attack, flight, and arguably better skills definitely seems to outweigh weakness to bows and some magic. Sully isn't the only unit who wants a second seal. Look man. I'm not saying it doesn't help her but she doesn't use it the best, see Sully improves but she doesn't need the boost as much as some people. If a unit is pretty great regardless than giving them a second seal instead of someone who isn't that great without it is bad priorities. Let's look at the people who want it. Sully: She likes it but doesn't need it at all. Vaike: Fixes his speed. Which is his main flaw. Miriel: Dark Mage >>> Mage. Especially when your durability is pretty bad. Panne: We all know this one. Avatar: See Sully Donnel: But chances are he isn't being used. So Sully going to wyvern hurts 2 of Vaike, Miriel and Panne. That's not good for the team at all. Also.... loss of mounts Mounts is the biggest problem with Stahl switching, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I am not looking forward to donnel. Oh that will be FUN! *grabs popcorn* I don't understand, what's the difference? o_O EDIT: OH, wait nvm, I get it now. But that shouldn't be a problem since you can grind people to death using Reeking Boxes and DLC and stuff. Not everyone grinds so they may rate based on that. Im actually glad i missed Frederick because his only uses for me are early game tanking and a father bot. My score for him wouldnt be very high overall. You guys are so gonna hate my rating for Virion. Omg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 You guys are so gonna hate my rating for Virion. Omg. I'm preparing my 1/10 skills now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 imma rate Virion highly /kappa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Two things I have to say, 1. Virion is going to get awful scores overall so I'd ont think it will make a difference. This is more important 2. The only one of the three who needs a second seal is Miriel other wise she can have severe durability issues. Panne appreciates the second seal but I'm going to think of terrain and say I would rather have a foot unit than a mount be left over. This means that sully gets the desert chapters fixed. Vaike enjoys a second seal to thief or barbarian for speed, but an early master seal to hero can fix his speed as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 1. Virion is going to get awful scores overall so I'd ont think it will make a difference. Noooo.../Virion Voice That guy loves his Second Seal. Lemmie tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Two things I have to say, 1. Virion is going to get awful scores overall so I'd ont think it will make a difference. This is more important 2. The only one of the three who needs a second seal is Miriel other wise she can have severe durability issues. Panne appreciates the second seal but I'm going to think of terrain and say I would rather have a foot unit than a mount be left over. This means that sully gets the desert chapters fixed. Vaike enjoys a second seal to thief or barbarian for speed, but an early master seal to hero can fix his speed as well. Not really early master seal hurts his potential. Supporting Cordelia also speeds things up (literally). Panne is basically guaranteed one and the other is between Vaike and Miriel and Sully (others maybe). Sully isn't needing it as much as others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) <s>I used Virion in my playlog. ur argumant r invalid</s> Edited May 25, 2013 by JSND Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 <s>I used Virion in my playlog. ur argumant r invalid</s> rofl for no particular reason. Any thoughts on upcoming votes? I think Kellam is either going to be overrated or underrated (no way people are going to realize how 5/10 the guy is...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Wait...people use Vaike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Wait...people use Vaike? He's actually pretty good. I'd say around 6/10... (which is 5 better than Virion...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Hey he is worth at least an 8. He is the third best unit in my draft so far. Only after chrom and Cherche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Bear Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Hey he is worth at least an 8. He is the third best unit in my draft so far. Only after chrom and Cherche. Not really. Vaike's got a few problems that leave him below an 8 And my ratings are naturally pessimistic. Among his issues are his speed and his being a foot soldier no matter what. Edited May 25, 2013 by bearclaw13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Vaike's reclass options smell a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 Yeah I understand he has shitty speed but it works out that tonics, Lon'gu and Cordelia all join shortly after he does to help him gain speed to fix his troubles. As to the foot issue he can always take Fred for an extra move and lol look at that strength and a defense boost. I think there are plenty of ways to hole up his problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Sully isn't the only unit who wants a second seal. Look man. I'm not saying it doesn't help her but she doesn't use it the best, see Sully improves but she doesn't need the boost as much as some people. If a unit is pretty great regardless than giving them a second seal instead of someone who isn't that great without it is bad priorities. Let's look at the people who want it. Sully: She likes it but doesn't need it at all. Vaike: Fixes his speed. Which is his main flaw. Miriel: Dark Mage >>> Mage. Especially when your durability is pretty bad. Panne: We all know this one. Avatar: See Sully Donnel: But chances are he isn't being used. So Sully going to wyvern hurts 2 of Vaike, Miriel and Panne. That's not good for the team at all. Mounts is the biggest problem with Stahl switching, yes. Who cares about other units? We're talking about Sully and what use she gets from a second seal. Am I not allowed to factor in the possibility of Sully getting a second seal and becoming better in my score, just because she's "good enough"? Should Avatar not be using the second seal at all because he's already good enough, and it prevents Panne/Vaike/etc from not using it? Edited May 25, 2013 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Who cares about other units? We're talking about Sully and what use she gets from a second seal. Am I not allowed to factor in the possibility of Sully getting a second seal and becoming better in my score, just because she's "good enough"? Should Avatar not be using the second seal at all because he's already good enough, and it prevents Panne/Vaike/etc from not using it? He totally has a point here, its not like the rtu has set guidelines like "avatar always gets the first second seal" or anything. It's fair to assume a unit is getting resources. I'm saying this and I really don't like Sully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroMystic Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) He totally has a point here, its not like the rtu has set guidelines like "avatar always gets the first second seal" or anything. It's fair to assume a unit is getting resources. I'm saying this and I really don't like Sully. The only true rule an RTU has is you have to assume the character is being used throughout the game. The fact that Sully can operate well without a Second Seal should actually be seen as a bonus, unlike others like Donnel who absolutely needs to get out of Villager ASAP. Edited May 25, 2013 by HeroMystic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raine Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Then again, Donnel's absurd growths and awesome skillset make him worth the extra trouble to get him out of villager-- and underdog makes going for 15 a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Sully's durability is literally the same as Chrom's. Weird that no one here complains about Chrom's lacking defenses but all of a sudden Sully can't take a hit, huh. I never said Chrom had good durability Heck he's worse if Sully becomes a Great Knight I'm also not saying that any particular unit deserves a second seal but I see the point about that and concede that I'm dumb But then again I always am Vaike's reclass options smell a lit Barbarian smells of "savior" Gives him gamble and despoil aswell as the speed he needs. Edited May 25, 2013 by The Fush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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