Iridium Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) I don't see Cordelia as a Mary Sue at all. She just has "I'm perfect" as her shtick, but has no impact on the plot. The fact that she's mostly plot-irrelevant is literally the one thing she has going for her. Exotic name? Check, from Shakespeare as opposed to mythology. Appears out of nowhere? Check, in spite of her alleged close friendships with Sumia and Phila. Last of her kind? Check, with the only other survivor dying in the next chapter. Crush on the main character? Check, check, holy balls check. Anyone who calls her out looks bad? Severa was the most hated character for the first week or two, so check. Everyone else compliments her? CHECK TIMES FIFTY. Except for the aforementioned, nobody ever calls her out for her flaws. Incredibly good fighter? Check in-universe, check in-gameplay. Perfect at everything she does? Check privilege. Lack of personality? Aside from being perfect, check. Friend to all living things? She's a pegasus knight, that's pretty much the closest you can get in this world. Flaws? Modesty and breast size. That's it. Number of supports in which she wishes she could be normal instead of a beautiful genius? I've seen at least three and I've only just started grinding them. She's also one of only eight characters who gets their own conversation with Avatar in DLC complete with swimsuit, but that's not actually her fault. Edited May 27, 2013 by Iridium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Even the Avatar, ostensibly the Mary Sue-est of them all, compliments Cordelia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Anyone who calls her out looks bad? Severa was the most hated character for the first week or two, so check. er, where did this come in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Sues always have some sort of impact on the plot, so im not gonna include Cordelia. Shes also very very easy to ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Modesty and breastsize. How are those even flaws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Modesty and breastsize. How are those even flaws? where's the plot relevance after one chapter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) The fact that she's mostly plot-irrelevant is literally the one thing she has going for her. Etc. She's also one of only eight characters who gets their own conversation with Avatar in DLC complete with swimsuit, but that's not actually her fault. Sure, she has plenty of the traits. But none of the impact. You could remove her from the game and nothing about the story would need to change. A Sue needs impact to be a Sue. Nothing in the game revolves around Cordelia. Crush on the main character? Check, check, holy balls check. How is this even a Sue trait? Edited May 27, 2013 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 You honestly know something. I'm tired of the mary-sue talk in this fandom. You'd think people can just sit back relax and enjoy their favorite characters and such. But nope the hate is strong here. Let's ask sues? My answer is who really cares? You are all arguing for the sake of arguing and it makes me absolutely sick. There is no point to these mary sue discussions no one agrees with anyone. Everyone is going to have differing opinions on this so I ask of you. What is the point of this discussion? Getting everyone pissed off. That is the only answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Welcome to the club. Now just hope it all stays in this topic from now on (not a good chance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Manic Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) This thread is proof that some people just want to watch the world burn. And I'm not talking about fire and oil tactics. Unless people all agree on the same definition for what a Mary Sue is, which will never happen, talking about who is more of a Sue goes nowhere. inb4 Ike vs. Micaiah arguments consume it? Edited May 27, 2013 by Sublime Manic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 You honestly know something. I'm tired of the mary-sue talk in this fandom. You'd think people can just sit back relax and enjoy their favorite characters and such. But nope the hate is strong here. Let's ask sues? My answer is who really cares? You are all arguing for the sake of arguing and it makes me absolutely sick. There is no point to these mary sue discussions no one agrees with anyone. Everyone is going to have differing opinions on this so I ask of you. What is the point of this discussion? Getting everyone pissed off. That is the only answer. Well, that's what happens when there's a fandom based on a series that releases as infrequently as Fire Emblem does. Every time a new game released, the fans rip and tear into it until they've devoured all aspects of it. Left with nothing to eat, they're forced to cannibalize each other until the next food sou...er, new game is released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotguner159 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 People think Ike is a stu? WTF. Seriously. He's a deep character with various flaws and he's not "worshipped" by people for no good reason like Micaiah is. In the case of RD Ike, he already got much development and he's still not highly respected for no good reason. And he still has his flaws and people that don't like him or give him beef in both games. There isn't anything special about Ike either. He has no unique abilities, nothing. Unlike Micaiah, again. I voted Micaiah. She's definitely a Sue if you ask me. Why people all over the continent worship Ike: He liberated Crimea. Why people from Daein worship Micaiah: She liberated Daein. Why is Micaiah's reason for getting worshipped not justified while Ike's is? And yes people all over the continent worship Ike, it's why the was chosen the lead the Apostle's Army in Radiant Dawn. Nothing special about Ike? He's the only son of the most badass man to ever walk on Tellius and one of two people who could hold the medallion without turning insane, by the end of Radiant Dawn he's known as the greatest swordsman on Tellius. He has three personal swords, none of which have a reason why only he can wield them. The people who give Ike beef and dislike Ike are 1. Shinon, 2. The Begnion Nobles. 3. Laguz. 4. People from Daein. Shnon's a dick, the nobles are evil, the laguz and people from Daein like him later anyway. Compare to Micaiah, who has Sothe, herself and Almedha, while pretty much everyone in the Apostle's Army express disgust and disbelief that she'd use the tactics that she does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Micaiah is hardly a Sue, and anybody who truly believes that is just plain silly. :/ My Unit in Awakening is probably the only example I can think of, but seriously, these kind of discussions are just stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 It's funny how the only person who doesn't think highly of Ike is called a Mary Sue by over half the fandom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorMajora Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) It's funny how the only person who doesn't think highly of Ike is called a Mary Sue by over half the fandom. That's most likely unrelated. There is no clear evidence of any causation. "I once read a poll that showed that 10% of people are left handed. I also read a scientific study showing about 10% of the population is of a deviant sexuality. I think it's obvious what that means". Also, this. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue It's not the oxford definition or anything, but it has more or less the average obvservations of how it is used on the internet. The very definition of Mary Sue is debated in and of itself, so this argument is kind of doomed to go nowhere. Hope this helps at all. In reality, Micaiah is a Canon Sue, a Mary Sue within the canon of the game itself. I'm changing my vote to Avatar, not because of the writing but more for the fact that it fits the purpose of a Sue the most, being an escapist self-insert that gives the player a great deal of freedom. The way it is written into the story isn't as severe as part 1 Micaiah, but Avatar very concretely serves the purpose. Still, in the end, I feel "biggest" isn't a good term for comparing Mary Sues, considering the flexible nature of their definition(s). Edited May 27, 2013 by MajorMajora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I know there's no relation. It's just a funny coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 this is why Shinon is the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Why people all over the continent worship Ike: He liberated Crimea. Why people from Daein worship Micaiah: She liberated Daein. Why is Micaiah's reason for getting worshipped not justified while Ike's is? And yes people all over the continent worship Ike, it's why the was chosen the lead the Apostle's Army in Radiant Dawn. Nothing special about Ike? He's the only son of the most badass man to ever walk on Tellius and one of two people who could hold the medallion without turning insane, by the end of Radiant Dawn he's known as the greatest swordsman on Tellius. He has three personal swords, none of which have a reason why only he can wield them. The people who give Ike beef and dislike Ike are 1. Shinon, 2. The Begnion Nobles. 3. Laguz. 4. People from Daein. Shnon's a dick, the nobles are evil, the laguz and people from Daein like him later anyway. Compare to Micaiah, who has Sothe, herself and Almedha, while pretty much everyone in the Apostle's Army express disgust and disbelief that she'd use the tactics that she does. Correction: Daein worships MIcaiah long before she actually liberates them. And why? All because of her uber special hair color and powers. Yes, she's a Branded, but no other Branded is given such a unique and powerful ability. Ike didn't gain respect from anyone until he DID do great stuff. The mercenaries never really thought highly of him until after awhile either. Reyson hated his guts until he rescued Leanne and crap. Same with Tibarn. He also had to earn respect from Sanaki and pretty much everyone else that respects him. Micaiah never earned her fame at all. It's just there all of a sudden. Ike can't hold Lehran's Medallion without going insane. Only Mist can, and Elena before she died. Greil isn't the only well-known Daein Rider. Black Knight and Petrine are famous too. All lords have their own special weapons that no one else can use. And in the case of Ettard, it's implied that it was once Greil's sword. Also, what reason is there for Thani to only be usable by MIcaiah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 don't make me laugh, Petrine is a famous rider? lololol and by that logic, why is the Regal Sword Ike-only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 don't make me laugh, Petrine is a famous rider? lololol and by that logic, why is the Regal Sword Ike-only Soren knows about her. So obviously she is well-known. As for the Regal Sword, it's Ike's equivalent to the rapier, which is only usable by lords and always has been. Does this make Marth, Eliwood, Eirika, Chrom, and Lucina Sues/Stus? Didn't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) Soren knows a lot of things. Look, can't we all agree that every lord isn't a Mary Sue/Gary Stu? They all have positive traits, and they all have negative traits. That's all. The only one, IMO, that qualifies as a Sue/Stu is Robin. That character is just too damn perfect. Edited May 27, 2013 by Zeem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faye Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Also, what reason is there for Thani to only be usable by MIcaiah? Thani does super-effective damage against mounted and armored units, it is clearly a magic-rapier. =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Zeem: Oh fine. xP Faye: It does super effective damage to mounted units too? That I didn't know, so you're right, my mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 (edited) don't make me laugh, Petrine is a famous rider? lololol and by that logic, why is the Regal Sword Ike-only Well, yeah. She is one of the Four Riders. The most powerful generals in Daein. If you are in such a small but important group, I would say you deserver to be called famous. Though admittedly, unlike Tauroneo, Gawain, Bryce and Fiona Senior, they probably never included her in a song. Anyway, my vote goes to Robin because... well, the fact that everything has to resolve around this gal really hurts the story. Just imagine if we had a few scenes between Emmeryn and Chrom or Chrom and Lissa or whatever. But no, because we can't have a scene without My Unit, so of course we (or rather MU) are merely being told how close they all were and what a void was left by her death. What we actually see, is Emmeryn wanting to do something foolish and Chrom trying to talk her out of it. It doesn't show much of a bond between them. Let alone with Lissa, whose grieve over her sister's death lasts a whole of two lines ("Noooo!" and "*snif* *snif*") before she returns to the status quo. Are there even scenes with main characters which don't involve MU? Well, besides scenes which only feature bad guys, of course. Edited May 27, 2013 by BrightBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Regal Sword=Ike's Rapier Thani? oh what a Mary Sue /Analogic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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