SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Jedi]

you definitely can do both

Seconding this, you can stick in place if you so wish. Knowing the distance and how to cancel your distance if you want to go shorter is a bit tricky but key for Zelda players.

[Jotari]

Are people still calling Zelda's default Farore's move a bad move? I'm still seeing it score sidestage KOs at the 80s, which is pretty tremendous.

Sure it's great for attacking but it's a bitch for aiming accurately. Also for some crazy reason if you use it in the air and aim downwards, she won't just appear beneath her original position. She'll move left or right for the remainder of the move which can easily lead to a suicide if you're not aware it's a feature. Highlighting her on the 3DS helps a lot to get to grips without how to move works since the highlighter shows the path she takes when reappearing.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Jotari

[Jedi]

Sure it's great for attacking but it's a bitch for aiming accurately. Also for some crazy reason if you use it in the air and aim downwards, she won't just appear beneath her original position. She'll move left or right for the remained of the move which can easily lead to a suicide if you're not aware it's a feature. Highlighting her on the 3DS helps a lot to get to grips without how to move works since the highlighter shows the path she takes when reappearing.

Sadly this feature can also be used against her or any character with a teleporting move.

[Chloe Neo]

Seriously , the move is used against her, damn it.

[Carter]

I honestly don't find many issues when it comes to aiming and accuracy. I don't really played competitively, and my brother sure isn't better than I am.

True, I do find it a bit tougher than Brawl, but I play Zelda way too much to a point where anything feels natural. I love how it became one of her KO moves. In fact, after watching my old replays back when the 3DS Version was just released, I was disappointed in myself by my overuse of Farore's Wind.

[Chloe Neo]

Spamming moves cheap moves on Zelda and Lucina is something i do a LOT .

[Fruity Insanity]

But Lucina doesn't really have any cheap moves. .-.

[Ein]

Her Dair spikes reliably though.

[Carmine Sword]

A lot of characters have a dair spike though.

[thecrimsonflash]

you definitely can do both

Oh crap I completely forgot that you could teleport to the same place I just haven't been using that since brawl

[Comet]

if you get hit by the dair, you probably deserve it. the only move of lucina's that could possibly be called cheap is probably counter, to state something relevant to the original topic.

[thecrimsonflash]

I dont know her counter has about 1-1\2 of a second of helplessness at the end and not to mention that it isn't that hard to get around a counter

[Jedi]

Counter leaves you wide open for grabs. This goes for any counter.

However the knock back for counters has gotten a tad ridiculous.

[Samias]

I dont know her counter has about 1-1\2 of a second of helplessness at the end and not to mention that it isn't that hard to get around a counter

Good players know this, bad players will spam it. Marth and Lucina's counters also become active faster than anyone else's except maybe Shulk's, making it hard for other inexperienced players to actually not just eat a counter. But you can simply grab someone who is relying too hard on counters and punish those people with ease, even if you're not so great.

[Jedi]

Good players know this, bad players will spam it. Marth and Lucina's counters also become active faster than anyone else's except maybe Shulk's, making it hard for other inexperienced players to actually not just eat a counter. But you can simply grab someone who is relying too hard on counters and punish those people with ease, even if you're not so great.

To be honest I think Macs has a slightly faster start up but I could be wrong.

[Gaia]

If you can get a good read on someone's counter, rather than grabbing, simply just charge up a smash attack and once they initiate the counter, wait for the counter window to end, and then hit them with the punish.

[Chloe Neo]

What is the purpose of counter, anyway ?

[Carmine Sword]

To punish predictable moves with a lot of start-up lag.

[Chloe Neo]

Yep when I first tried that move all I saw was lag.

[euklyd]

to punish moves you can predict in general, actually; they don't need to have startup lag at all (although it definitely helps)

it rewards you for having good reads

[Knight]

Counter is an excellent move, although eventually people might see through it and grab you. I find human opponents fall for it more often then computers, but they won't fall for it consistently.

[Jotari]

The most effective use of counter is not to use it. Even just having it without using it makes it a boon as it makes players much more wary about using high risk attacks. Using it in the air is also useful since you can't easily be grabbed in the air. Unfortunately getting a good counter is just so dang satisfying, I personally can't help but over use it a lot.

[Ninian]

Unless you are going up against (these are the easy ones in my opinion) Ganondorf, Bowser, Kirby, or King Dedede, then using Counter in the air is not a bad idea. However, Ganondorf can use Flame Choke to slam you down wherever, Bowser similarly with his Special Grab, Kirby and Dedede can just suck you in.

[Knight]

I often mistime counter in the air and cause myself to be launched, I gotta stop doing that.

[Chloe Neo]

So to put it in a nutshell you should use counter when fighting people like Ganandorf.