SSB4: SSB for Wii U and 3DS, maybe the NX and also your toaster!

[Kiseki]

They need to add more endlag to dodges. Dodge is broken tier.

Yissss. Add some more startup where you aren't invincible on frame 1 while you're at it.

And just earlier today I had a new record time for longest FG 1v1 match against projectiles spam. I had 15 seconds left on the clock against the usual FG Link as Captain Falcon. This Link was somewhat smarter as they reconized that I was trying to ride the Boomerang so I could get a free Punch/other strong move and threw another projectile as I was coming. I still won the match by punishing his roll with a charged F-Smash.

Never again do I want to deal with that sh*t again.

[Knife]

I don't know why you guys like to torture yourselves playing For Glory.

[Comet]

add more shieldstun and increase offensive options (this will sadly never happen)

[Ragnell]

add more shieldstun and increase offensive options (this will sadly never happen)

I don't understand this complaint in our current meta. Of all the generally accepted high-to-top tier characters (namely: Sheik, ZSS, Pikachu, Rosa, Luigi, Diddy, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Ness, MK, etc). only a single character (Rosa) is generally played defensively. Every other character achieved their spot due to bieng an offensive powerhouse. I really don't see why people think defensive play is so overpowered in this game, to the point of warranting such universal changes. Shields and dodging are definitely irksome online with lag (the endless Links and Spamus in FG are a total bore) but real tourneys are far from dodge-fests. Most pros have absolutely honed their ability to crush FG-esque rollers.

[kingddd]

I don't understand this complaint in our current meta. Of all the generally accepted high-to-top tier characters (namely: Sheik, ZSS, Pikachu, Rosa, Luigi, Diddy, Sonic, Fox, Mario, Ness, MK, etc). only a single character (Rosa) is generally played defensively. Every other character achieved their spot due to bieng an offensive powerhouse. I really don't see why people think defensive play is so overpowered in this game, to the point of warranting such universal changes. Shields and dodging are definitely irksome online with lag (the endless Links and Spamus in FG are a total bore) but real tourneys are far from dodge-fests. Most pros have absolutely honed their ability to crush FG-esque rollers.

most of the problem is because all the other characters can only be played well defensively. The top tiers are top tier because they have the best offensive and defensive options. Majority of the characters don't have many offensive options to do that well. I can't play falco offensively any more because of how slow he has become now. Marth can't be played offensively well either with his lack of combo game now.

The wait and bait style of playing is unfortunately the best way to play with majority of the characters that aren't top tier making it difficult for majority of the cast to attempt to play offensively.

Edited August 17, 2015 by kingddd

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I don't know why you guys like to torture yourselves playing For Glory.

Do you have second option? Other than go to tourney's that don't exist around you or play with others which aren't at your play level.

[euklyd]

ESAM just gave a suuuper nice 1-10 tierlist; both entertaining and informative

has some insights that I really just haven't heard anywhere before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEe08ahv0jo

[spoiler=tl;dw]Sheik

Pikachu

Luigi

Fox

Rosalina

Ness

Yoshi

ZSS

Sonic

Mario

he's uploading the second vid (11-20) now apparently

Do you have second option? Other than go to tourney's that don't exist around you or play with others which aren't at your play level.

play with others who are at your play level

play with others who are better than you

we have lots of ways to find matches on SF itself (I can think of three active ones off the top of my head), and there are more elsewhere e.g., anther's ladder

[Jedi]

And 11-20 is up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dhA_u4kAVU

Metaknight
ROB
Falcon
Villager
Pits
Wario
Robin
Diddy
Lucario
Ike

[euklyd]

so nairo vs dabuz happened at nebulous prime grand finals

nairo used ZELDA and zss and dabuz used MARIO AND PIKA

wtf is the world coming to

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3h9ulm/congrats_to_the_winner_of_nebulous_prime/

[kingddd]

so nairo vs dabuz happened at nebulous prime grand finals

nairo used ZELDA and zss and dabuz used MARIO AND PIKA

wtf is the world coming to

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3h9ulm/congrats_to_the_winner_of_nebulous_prime/

8 hr 2 min 15 seconds if anyone is curious.

http://www.twitch.tv/bum1six3/v/11245330?t=8h02m15s

[Knife]

Do you have second option? Other than go to tourney's that don't exist around you or play with others which aren't at your play level.

Play people you actually know on WiFi. Most people are lazy and just want a quick match. This is what FG was made for. Thats why its full of people who just roll around and taunt at dumb times.If you find playing that mode fun, I guess that's fine since fun is subjective. However if you actually want to get good at the game beyond learning how to punish roll and adapt to WiFi lag, you need to play good/average people. There are sometimes that one guy that is actually somewhat decent and doesn't roll as his only form of movement, but overall you are wasting your time on FG if you're goal is to get better.

I'm surprised Esam considers Robin top 20 when she is often considered one of the worst characters. Greninja should easily be in top 20, but I guess he doesn't have results to back it up.

[Florete]

so nairo vs dabuz happened at nebulous prime grand finals

nairo used ZELDA and zss and dabuz used MARIO AND PIKA

wtf is the world coming to

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3h9ulm/congrats_to_the_winner_of_nebulous_prime/

Nairo using Zelda is not actually anything new. Well, I guess him using Zelda in grand finals is kind of new, but he's always had Zelda in there.

Dabuz also used Sheik for a round in winners finals), but lost.

[euklyd]

Nairo using Zelda is not actually anything new. Well, I guess him using Zelda in grand finals is kind of new, but he's always had Zelda in there.

Dabuz also used Sheik for a round in winners finals), but lost.

yeah, I knew about Nairo's Zelda (although I agree that grand finals is def new! he has used Robin vs Dabuz in GFs before tho), but had no idea about Dabuz's chars

I'm surprised Esam considers Robin top 20 when she is often considered one of the worst characters. Greninja should easily be in top 20, but I guess he doesn't have results to back it up.

Yeah, it's surprising to most people. Apparently there's a really good Robin in ESAM's area (better Robin than Nairo's); from reddit:

I body Nairo's robin when I play it. Dath on the other hand....ugh

more details about players of these characters that ESAM actually has significant experience with:

What people aren't taking into consideration is the local scene that ESAM is exposed to and how it has affected his list. 8bitman is crazy good with ROB, Dath is one of FL's strongest players, having taken sets from Master Raven, TrueBlue, Ed, etc., doing it all with Robin (all of the names written happened before the most recent patch). Ike is insanely good, but no one ever sees him at a high level at nationals because Ryo doesn't travel. ESAM's training partner/best friend, MVD, plays diddy and agrees with the placement of diddy. I was hanging out at Shaky's a couple months ago, and ESAM and MVD literally named 25+ characters that they though were/could be better than diddy. The reason for these placements is due to u/imESAM having experience vs all of these characters with top players in FL, his home state and of the 2 best regions in the USA (tristate and fl are super close. Sorry WC).

[Florete]

eSam's Robin placement also seems highly reliant on her recent buff to down throw, making it a combo move.

[euklyd]

likely so

"dath made robin look p good before, and now she has a combo throw, and a kill confirm off fthrow? maybe top-20 material"

[Knife]

The throw buff, while good, isn't enough to make her overcome her terrible flaws, namely having the worst mobility in the game and still being inferior to some in the zoning department.

[Tamarsamar]

She makes several characters approach her and can punish them for doing so. Clearly she's not the best zoner in the game (RosaLuma anyone?), but she can hold her own and outcamp just as many characters as can outcamp her.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Tamarsamar

[Jedi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWXoyCl-XJg

Esam has posted who he believes to be the 11 worst characters in the game

Bowser Jr

Palutena

Duck Hunt

Shulk

Little Mac

Dedede

Lucina

Mewtwo

Puff

Doc

Zelda

I don't exactly agree with some of these.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Jedi

[Jotari]

Just happy to see Ganondorf isn't considered dead last this time round.

[Jedi]

Just happy to see Ganondorf isn't considered dead last this time round.

Poor Zelda though.

[Carmine Sword]

Was expecting Samus to be in the bottom 10.

[Jedi]

Was expecting Samus to be in the bottom 10.

Well Esam does play Samus and has managed some good wins with her, so he's a bit biased I think.

[Carmine Sword]

Oh, ok. That makes sense.

Can I use my bias powers to take Shulk out of the Bottom 11 and replace him with Samus?

[Jedi]

Oh, ok. That makes sense.

Can I use my bias powers to take Shulk out of the Bottom 11 and replace him with Samus?

Haha, I want to do that too, but he IS right about the frame data. I don't think Shulk is SUPER HIGH or anything, but I think he's at least mid.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Jedi

[Tamarsamar]

Esam is right about a couple of things, though: 50+ of the characters are viable (a good chunk of which are clearly "underdeveloped" in the tournament scene), and the pronunciation of "Dedede".