Silvercrow Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 That's the idea: Triforce is such an expensive item that building wriggles will set you back substantially enough in gold that it will no longer be worth it as you'll be sacrificing your tankiness. It was already sort of a luxury item imo, now I just feel that unless you're stomping your lane, you'll probably need that wriggles and will probably be better off just building Wit's End/Frozen Mallet/whatever else immediately afterwards than hoarding 4000 gold for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Wriggles tri is still an amazing combo. It doesn't stop you at all. You can go wriggles phage wits end and your ability to do damage is still amazing and you have more tankiness at early to mid game because of it. Some people will still get wriggles because of the ability to counter people in lane with it. Armor + life steal works against stuff gp or champs that are hard to duke out without armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) tbh I always liked getting the Zeal component first if I do run Triforce Irelia because it's more consistent damage/lifesteal via W and it gives you movespeed. Although Phage first is also nice. Edited March 18, 2012 by Joey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 yesterday was fun we should do that again at some point in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Just a question though: Why wouldn't you build Wriggles first normally anyway? I do enjoy 40 something HP return per hit. And am I the only one that gets the Sheen component of Triforce first? Hi Bladesurge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Just a question though: Why wouldn't you build Wriggles first normally anyway? I do enjoy 40 something HP return per hit. And am I the only one that gets the Sheen component of Triforce first? Hi Bladesurge. I get Wriggles first if I'm laning against physical damage and if I'm doing well in lane I'll go Triforce with a Wits End or Spirit Visage thrown in between if the enemy's AP carry is turning out to be a problem. If I'm laning against magic I tend to rush Wits End although sometimes I will pick up a Philo for pseudo-sustain if I am doing well enough to where I don't need the MR right away and feel like I need to farm for lategame. If I'm doing well in lane but the enemy's physical damage is turning out to be a threat I will do something along the lines of Aegis-Triforce+Atmas or some sort of Atmas-oriented build depending on the severity of the situation and how tanky I need to be. Thing with top lane is it's hard to tell people how to build shit because there's no true "core" build when it comes to building melee DPS. I build something different almost every game if I'm playing top lane or jungle. And one thing you should note is: NEVER get sheen first on Irelia. It is a waste. Her skills are not on a low enough cooldown to justify getting the Sheen first. You either grab Zeal or Phage first depending on whether you need that movespeed and sustained damage or the health+the slow effect. Edited March 18, 2012 by Joey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 And one thing you should note is: NEVER get sheen first on Irelia. It is a waste. Her skills are not on a low enough cooldown to justify getting the Sheen first. You either grab Zeal or Phage first depending on whether you need that movespeed and sustained damage or the health+the slow effect. Right, I'll keep that in mind next time I play her. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The phage is generally the best idea to buy first. It's the component all pros buy first and there are plenty of reasons for it. One is health, two is it's a slow, and besides equilibrium strike irelia has no CC. So the extra health along with the slow gives irelia the ability to chase and live/kite partially. Also the ad on it adds to her q and her ult damage minorly. Sheen is only ever bought first if your against someone extremely weak that you can kill with sheen procs easily. And even then it doesn't outway the phage's benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Yeah, but Phage is an RNG-slow. It won't always proc when you need it to. I'm not saying it's bad and I know pros usually get that first but there is also a point to picking up Zeal first because as I've said: It's consistent. You get permanent movespeed and the AS meshes really well with her W considering it's an on-hit ability and not only does it deal true damage it also heals you for a flat amount of health. Like I said, what you get first for Triforce can be pretty situational. Sometimes I go Phage first, sometimes I go Zeal first and then I get the other after. Edited March 18, 2012 by Joey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The only issue about zeal is that it doesn't actually give any real damage. Chance for a crit which is non-existant and a very small increase in attackspeed which doesn't help too much alone, especially at early levels. It might factor in to one more attack every two rounds of hiten style. Which is a whopping 75 damage, not that much when you could have had a phage or sheen if your just wanting damage. The tankiness with the slow is what makes phage the strongest component of the three when actually solo laning against another tankie dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti-Social Meta Knight Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) The only issue about zeal is that it doesn't actually give any real damage. Chance for a crit which is non-existant and a very small increase in attackspeed which doesn't help too much alone, especially at early levels. It might factor in to one more attack every two rounds of hiten style. Which is a whopping 75 damage, not that much when you could have had a phage or sheen if your just wanting damage. The tankiness with the slow is what makes phage the strongest component of the three when actually solo laning against another tankie dps. This isn't necessarily the case with every champion. In Irelia's case, her W gives her true damage on every hit, which means increases in attack speed do give her increased damage output. And if it's true damage, 75 is a big deal. Phage gives 18 AD every hit, which is mitigated by armor (a stat people tend to have in spades in the top lane). There are plenty of champions like that who scale heavily with attack speed - Vayne, TF, Kog'Maw and Warwick come to mind - and who would therefore prefer a quick zeal to a phage. For a different example, consider a top lane Tryndamere. The bulk of his early game damage comes from his rage crits; that's how he pushes people out of lane. That's why top lane Tryns tend to rush Phantom Dancer - the crit chance it offers allow them to keep up their damage through early game without much investment in AD (usually Wriggle's Lantern is where the line is drawn). For Tryndamere, a zeal is decidedly preferable to a phage, for a number of reasons. He doesn't need the slow procs phage offers (Mocking Shout covers that); the AD is insignificant, given his role on the team; and HP isn't a pivotal stat for him, as he has huge base HP and his ult to fall back on. This isn't to say some champions don't benefit more from a phage. Champions with heavy AD scaling (Riven, Renekton) will definitely prefer a phage because it helps them do their job. But just because they prefer a phage doesn't mean everyone ought to. By the way, how is 10% crit chance non-existent? On any crit-intensive champion I'll bet you it counts for a lot. Edited March 19, 2012 by Anti-Social Knight 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I was talking about irelia. I never mentioned other top lane champs. Just gonna point that out there. Never did i say phage would be better than zeal on someone like tryn or kog or vayne. Just irelia. And i will also keep my largest point out there that high level play, 2200+ players always get phage first on irelia. They hardly ever switch from that no matter who they lane against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti-Social Meta Knight Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I was talking about irelia. I never mentioned other top lane champs. Just gonna point that out there. Never did i say phage would be better than zeal on someone like tryn or kog or vayne. Just irelia. And i will also keep my largest point out there that high level play, 2200+ players always get phage first on irelia. They hardly ever switch from that no matter who they lane against. Well, in high level play they take phage first to keep their lanes secure. They don't take it for the damage (again, for Irelia a zeal would give more consistent damage by way of her W) or the slow procs - they take it because it's a survivability item that's relevant to their build, and they'd rather not be ganked into oblivion. 2200+ is not the level we play at, so we don't have that problem, nor do we have to follow that precedent - that's why phage is not the best choice by default. Edited March 19, 2012 by Anti-Social Knight 2.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 legay of legays jesus christ i'm funny i should probably be a comedian or something p.s. plans op Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK-201 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Up for a game if anyone wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Lulu: first day impressions. HOLY FUCKING SHIT THIS SHOULD BE ILLEGAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Yes, that all yordle game we had was quite nice. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 i supersucked. :( i am so sorry. i don't think you guys will want to play with me again. like ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You're still learning, it's fine. <3 When you play support, don't poke the minions and harass from a safe distance if you must. Try not to overextend, especially if your AD is far away from you. Ward early, and don't facecheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) I actually am supposed to know this stuff but for whatever reason i still fucking go full retard it's like i have this thing and it makes me dumb Edited March 21, 2012 by Stolypin Necktie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 It's okay, you just derped for a little bit. :D Next time, if we Skype while doing this, I'll tell you properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 ;__; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Why so sadfais? :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) in other news: i spent 70% of the ip i was saving up for runes n shit to buy lulu. fucking. i'm genius. worth it. Edited March 21, 2012 by Stolypin Necktie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakusa Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Lulu is worth it if you plan on playing a lot of support in general. She can be used for more gimmicky things, though, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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