PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Czar_Yoshi]

Well yes if you wanted to S-Support Morgan with Lucina, but I always prefered the pair as siblings really.

Since when was Chrom!Morgan bleh?

Anyway on to another more pressing question: Who's the best dad for Laurent?

1. S supports >>> A supports. Especially when DSt+ is involved, it makes the difference between failing to proc exactly none out of however many DS chances you may have, and around 5% of them. The difference between something never (or always) happening and only sometimes happening is the biggest difference it's possible to have in this game. You'd have to be mad to throw that away. Or just have something else that gives an even higher RoI...

2. Since when Chrom has no mods over +1. Morgan is used to enjoying +6es across the board, with Chrom the very best they can do is that much in one single stat. +Str Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan? +6/8/6 Str/Skl/Spd. +Spd Chrom!Morgan? +2/4/6 Str/Skl/Spd. And this is from Morgan, who really should have the best mods in the game- merely good isn't good enough. There's also the issue of not being able to marry Lucina, of course, but that's not as important if you're running a large team, just an inconvenience.

3. Gregor. Gregor!Laurent isn't merely the best Laurent, he's one of the best pairings in the game. You can't go wrong with him, anything you want him to do, he can do. Among his perks are being a very good hard support on both the physical and magical sides in Apo, being an excellent critsweeper, one of the best VV units in the game (should you actually want to use it), being very useful with useful parents on Lunatic+ and having one of the lower demand dads out there.

You can't screw up Morgan or the Avatar for that matter.

That's true for everyone though, to an extent. Even the most extreme modifiers on either end only give +/- 15% to a unit's stats, and when all else fails you've always got LB, Agg (for males) and Braves.

What you can do, though, is cause units to miss out on potential, which is what minmaxing is all about: there's no bad and good, there's good and better.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[TheSilentChloey]

1. S supports >>> A supports. Especially when DSt+ is involved, it makes the difference between failing to proc exactly none out of however many DS chances you may have, and around 5% of them. The difference between something never (or always) happening and only sometimes happening is the biggest difference it's possible to have in this game. You'd have to be mad to throw that away. Or just have something else that gives an even higher RoI...

2. Since when Chrom has no mods over +1. Morgan is used to enjoying +6es across the board, with Chrom the very best they can do is that much in one single stat. +Str Lon'qu!Severa!Morgan? +6/8/6 Str/Skl/Spd. +Spd Chrom!Morgan? +2/4/6 Str/Skl/Spd. And this is from Morgan, who really should have the best mods in the game. There's also the issue of not being able to marry Lucina, of course, but that's not as important if you're running a large team, just an inconvenience.

3. Gregor. Gregor!Laurent isn't merely the best Laurent, he's one of the best pairings in the game. You can't go wrong with him, anything you want him to do, he can do. Among his perks are being a very good hard support on both the physical and magical sides in Apo, being an excellent critsweeper, one of the best VV units in the game (should you actually want to use it), being very useful with useful parents on Lunatic+ and having one of the lower demand dads out there.

Gregor was/is being used for Nah for my current M!Mu playthrough so he isn't an option. I did mention that I *cough* was shaking up my pairings for the M!Mu playthrough. The guys I have left are as follows Donnel, Stahl, Kellam and Gaius. I didn't want to use Kellam because according to what I have read his stats are not the best, so that leaves Donnel, Stahl (who I would normally give to Kjelle) and Gaius. Not a good lot of options, but like I mentioned I was shaking up my normal pairings for this playthrough. Big time.

[Czar_Yoshi]

None of those three really have anything Laurent wants, so you won't see much difference based on which one you pick. Kellam actually has the highest Mag out of the four, though (but only by 1), so he may in fact be your best bet- Laurent doesn't care for Spd anyway.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Czar_Yoshi

[Radiant head]

Wondering if I should just roll with Kellam!Nah. I'm not going to use her for apotheosis, and all the other good fathers are used. Libra and Gregor are the other options, though i was planning to use Gregor for an unpaired Laurent (also not going to apo).

Also, how viable is pairing Vaike!Yarne with Gaius!Noire and giving the latter anathema to cover his lack of hit+20?

[Ebony]

Before I press on and finalize, how is Stahl as a dad to Inigo?

[Radiant head]

He's amazing, and usually what I always do. He's identical to Chrom!Inigo, just without RFK which is useless anyway.

[TheSilentChloey]

He's amazing, and usually what I always do. He's identical to Chrom!Inigo, just without RFK which is useless anyway.

It can be very useful though. Allowing for more skill activation. I usually enjoy it on Morgan, it does help with Sol/Luna or Aether on Lucina so it is not entirely useless. You just have to know how to work with what you have. At least that is how I get through most of the game.

Speaking of Chrom!Inigo is there a specific ending Class that would suit him to be benched on. I am benching him in this playthrough unfortunately because I really don't like his hair as blue *gags*.

I also would like to know if Libra!Ingo would make an alright Sage or should I leave him as a Hero or War Monk to mix things up?

Also any tips for Virion!Kjelle? What class would she benefit from most as a finishing class? Is it worth making her a general? Or would she be better suited to a different role?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Inigo doesn't have room for RK though. He'll already be running LB/GF/Agg/Luna/Faire, and if he were to sacrifice a skill for something it would be Astra, no questions asked. So what would you drop?

Ending classes on benched units don't matter, but Libra!Inigo can do pretty much whatever (physical or magical). He's a pretty good Dread Fighter if you want to use one of those, has mounted options in DK and BK (no BF though so his BK is a little weak) and can also make a good Sage or Hero. He's decently suited to Berserker as well due to having Vengeance, though those are typically underwhelming when not hard supports.

[Ebony]

He's amazing, and usually what I always do. He's identical to Chrom!Inigo, just without RFK which is useless anyway.

Gosh I just wish is hair wasn't so gross looking. Otherwise I'd do that pairing over Frederick x Olivia. Because I don't think Stahl!Nah is worth it otherwise I'd stick Henry to Lissa so fast

[Radiant head]

Fred!Inigo is the popular choice because no one else wants Fred, while everyone wants Stahl. But I'm too biased towards wanting to run armsthrift/luna/galeforce for Double Bow sniper.

Though you can replicate that with Ricken or Chrom.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Radiant head

[NobodyInWonderland]

For the record, in my last playthrough Libra!Inigo made a pretty great sorcerer and had pretty much anything I could ever want on a character. On the other hand, I don't go for a lot of physical classes for my most-used characters, so there's that. I pretty much put him on par with the Avatar kids in that particular playthrough, and he's the only character I trusted to solo Rogues and Redeemers 3 with Chrom (and obviously no support levels) before he had mostly capped stats with Vantage/Vengeance (and occasionally a bit of Aversa's Night, yay Armsthrift). As a disclaimer, I did use him in Normal Mode with Limit Breaker, and I was weird enough to put him in a magical class, and Libra mostly just gives a well-rounded Magical Kid Starter Kit to whichever kid gets him as a father. So if you're looking for min/maxing of stats or a lot of useful skills for a physical Inigo to add to the ones he's already got, I'm not sure if Libra's the one to go for; if you don't want Inigo in a magical class you're probably not going to get a ton out of the pairing (though it won't hurt him either). Not that Inigo really needs much in my personal opinion; but I've got my own ideas of what I like as far as available skills and class sets, and Inigo - especially Libra!Inigo - just happens to fit the bill.

Edited November 20, 2015 by NobodyInWonderland

[TheSilentChloey]

*Snip*

Also any tips for Virion!Kjelle? What class would she benefit from most as a finishing class? Is it worth making her a general? Or would she be better suited to a different role?

Inigo doesn't have room for RK though. He'll already be running LB/GF/Agg/Luna/Faire, and if he were to sacrifice a skill for something it would be Astra, no questions asked. So what would you drop?

Ending classes on benched units don't matter, but Libra!Inigo can do pretty much whatever (physical or magical). He's a pretty good Dread Fighter if you want to use one of those, has mounted options in DK and BK (no BF though so his BK is a little weak) and can also make a good Sage or Hero. He's decently suited to Berserker as well due to having Vengeance, though those are typically underwhelming when not hard supports.

Ok I will definately have to see how we go on my F!Mu run. Good to know that I can bench Chrom!Inigo without worrying too much. I think that my main concern is just getting galeforce and setting him down after we have him. I trained Lucina to have it already because I forgot to grind Olivia. I will fix that the next play through though if I do another M!Mu playthrough.

Which map do we get the dread fighters from again? Also where do we go to get limit breaker? How is the map overall? Does Limitbreaker help at all with Grima. Sorry I seem to be asking a lot of questions but I feel that there is a lot that I need to learn before I start getting to test some of the strategies that I may use to get onto hard. (That and I want to avoid nearly killing Robin in the process again as well as breaking Lissa's staff before I can get another one).

Does Ricken!Laurent work well as a Sage at all? I am thinking of Miriel giving him renewal or dual support + whichever works out better. I am still not sure what to have Ricken hand down to Laurent. Luna might be an option if I were going with a minimum exp run.

[NobodyInWonderland]

Dread Fighter - Lost Bloodlines 2 DLC.

Limit Breaker - it comes from the Rogues and Redeemers 3 DLC. Very difficult map the first time around, required pretty much mostly maxed-out kid units to deal with it. There's about a gazillion enemies and your only saving grace is that they don't all start moving toward you at once, and the fact that it's straightforward hit-the-enemy-with-the-thing without any weird terrain or having to protect any allies. Out of this, you get what's arguably the best possible skill - since it raises your stat caps by 10, then as long as you bother to max out your characters with the new skill equipped, it will help with anything. Grima included. Plus, it gives any advanced class 100% Armsthrift activation if they've got Armsthrift.

Once you get the first Limit Breaker, use it on your Avatar and then get maxed-out stats, then as long as you have a reliable method of self-healing that works on the enemy phase (in other words, Sol, Nosferatu or Aversa's Night) it gets a lot easier. If you've got a magic-using Avatar I'd recommend combining Sol with Celica's Gale and Armsthrift so you don't run out of your weapon in the middle of enemy phase and so you have range, because there's a guy with Counter and another guy with Lethality and it's probably for the best that you handle them from a distance. You always have to bring Chrom along, but with the appropriate set of skills I've found I don't necessarily need any support levels.

These days, when I don't want to train a team specifically to get that first Limit Breaker for my Avatar in a new playthrough, I hire one of my old maxed-out Avatars with Limit Breaker out of the logbook, sit them down in the middle of the map and end my turn repeatedly (just keeping an eye on the two with the scary skills).

Edited November 20, 2015 by NobodyInWonderland

[Czar_Yoshi]

Which map do we get the dread fighters from again? Also where do we go to get limit breaker? How is the map overall? Does Limitbreaker help at all with Grima. Sorry I seem to be asking a lot of questions but I feel that there is a lot that I need to learn before I start getting to test some of the strategies that I may use to get onto hard. (That and I want to avoid nearly killing Robin in the process again as well as breaking Lissa's staff before I can get another one).

Does Ricken!Laurent work well as a Sage at all? I am thinking of Miriel giving him renewal or dual support + whichever works out better. I am still not sure what to have Ricken hand down to Laurent. Luna might be an option if I were going with a minimum exp run.

Virion!Kjelle, whoops. She'll be like Gaius!Kjelle or Virion!Severa without GF; just use those base 40s like Paladin and Sniper. If you want to go magical she'll be fine at that too, having 0 in both Str and Mag- she has no DF but she does get TF DK.

Dread Fighter is LB2, Limit Breaker is RaR3. Both of those maps vary by difficulty; on Normal/Hard you could roll over either of them with a good endgame team, on Lunatic you'll need to be prepared and have a ton of Galeforce to handle the latter. LB wrecks Grima on Lunatic, but since it only has an effect once you've reached the regular stat caps you won't see much effect on Normal/Hard- Grima's already doomed by the time you're that strong (it doesn't make you stronger, it lets you get stronger).

Sage is pretty much all Ricken!Laurent is good for.

[TheSilentChloey]

Dread Fighter - Lost Bloodlines 2 DLC.

Limit Breaker - it comes from the Rogues and Redeemers 3 DLC. Very difficult map the first time around, required pretty much mostly maxed-out kid units to deal with it. There's about a gazillion enemies and your only saving grace is that they don't all start moving toward you at once, and the fact that it's straightforward hit-the-enemy-with-the-thing without any weird terrain or having to protect any allies. Out of this, you get what's arguably the best possible skill - since it raises your stat caps by 10, then as long as you bother to max out your characters with the new skill equipped, it will help with anything. Grima included. Plus, it gives any advanced class 100% Armsthrift activation if they've got Armsthrift.

Once you get the first Limit Breaker, use it on your Avatar and then get maxed-out stats, then as long as you have a reliable method of self-healing that works on the enemy phase (in other words, Sol, Nosferatu or Aversa's Night) it gets a lot easier. If you've got a magic-using Avatar I'd recommend combining Sol with Celica's Gale and Armsthrift so you don't run out of your weapon in the middle of enemy phase and so you have range, because there's a guy with Counter and another guy with Lethality and it's probably for the best that you handle them from a distance. You always have to bring Chrom along, but with the appropriate set of skills I've found I don't necessarily need any support levels.

These days, when I don't want to train a team specifically to get that first Limit Breaker for my Avatar in a new playthrough, I hire one of my old maxed-out Avatars with Limit Breaker out of the logbook, sit them down in the middle of the map and end my turn repeatedly (just keeping an eye on the two with the scary skills).

Hmm looks like I'll have to go DLC hunting That does sound like some fun!

Virion!Kjelle, whoops. She'll be like Gaius!Kjelle or Virion!Severa without GF; just use those base 40s like Paladin and Sniper. If you want to go magical she'll be fine at that too, having 0 in both Str and Mag- she has no DF but she does get TF DK.

Dread Fighter is LB2, Limit Breaker is RaR3. Both of those maps vary by difficulty; on Normal/Hard you could roll over either of them with a good endgame team, on Lunatic you'll need to be prepared and have a ton of Galeforce to handle the latter. LB wrecks Grima on Lunatic, but since it only has an effect once you've reached the regular stat caps you won't see much effect on Normal/Hard- Grima's already doomed by the time you're that strong (it doesn't make you stronger, it lets you get stronger).

Sage is pretty much all Ricken!Laurent is good for.

Many thanks! I was wondering what sort of bonuses Virion!Kjelle would get. A lot of the information I read mentioned that she needed regeneration skills if I was going for future past DLC. I think that was where I got that question from.

Another healer is always needed on my team D: I seem to level them up so easily it is not funny. I wonder if that is because I baby my units too much if they get so much as a scratch...*looks nervously at Lissa and Maribelle*

Edited November 20, 2015 by TheSilentChloey

[MewMewExorcist]

Does Virion!Inigo make for a good physical attacker? I want to match him up with a Stahl!Severa, who probably will also be an offensive unit, but I'm waffling between swapping out Virion for Libra. Not sure which is better - Virion has more classes, but I think Libra has slightly better stats, from my memory. Could be wrong.

[Radiant head]

Libra is better. Inigo needs either Luna or Vengeance, and Virion gives neither while Libra gives the latter. Libra!Inigo can do both physical and magic.

[EarthboundAddict]

Hey...um may I ask what are some good in-game pairings. I'm doing a no DLC, no grind playthrough and would like to make sure I get as many good units as possible. Also I'm doing a no reset playthrough. Luckily no one died though.

[MewMewExorcist]

Hm.. Might want to revise some of my pairings then. I'm going for offensive, but also... unusual pairings? Mostly stuff I've not done before that doesn't completely compromise the kid's usefulness.

My current pairings (already married) are my MaMU and Sully, and Chrom with Sumia. With the Avatar as her father, I'm pretty sure Kjelle will turn out good no matter what, and Chrom and Sumia make good children too, in my opinion.

Mostly I'm looking at Lon'qu x Miriel, I'm not sure how good Laurent is going to be with him as a dad. My usual choices (Gregor and Ricken) I've already put with Panne and Lissa, respectively. Can Henry and Miriel get it together? Lon'qu might be better off as Gerome's father...?

I'm not good at this stuff. .-.

[Radiant head]

Yeah MU gives Kjelle Pegasus Knight, which is all she needs to be good. And you now have Gaius freed up for Tharja, which is really nice. And yeah, Chrom x Sumia is the best way to go.

Lon'qu isn't good on Gerome. He's optimal on Severa or Brady, who already have their skills, and just want the +spd/skl mod. But he's alright on Laurent, who wants Vantage. Henry is alright on Laurent too, though I'm not a fan of the class overlap.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Radiant head

[EarthboundAddict]

So does it not really matter or?

[MewMewExorcist]

I think I've got Fred for Cherche right now. I really like Cherche's supports honestly, they seem more sincere than... most supports. .-.

I don't remember who Brady's father is. I plan run a Stahl!Severa, which I've done in the past, and it's pretty solid. Besides Lon'qu, who would you suggest for Brady? He might be more of a support character, he's never been very offensive for me. Maybe I'm just using him wrong.

[Radiant head]

So does it not really matter or?

There are like several different combinations of good pairings, so it's hard to say in a vacuum what good pairings are. It's easier to help if you have some starting ideas.

I think I've got Fred for Cherche right now. I really like Cherche's supports honestly, they seem more sincere than... most supports. .-.

I don't remember who Brady's father is. I plan run a Stahl!Severa, which I've done in the past, and it's pretty solid. Besides Lon'qu, who would you suggest for Brady? He might be more of a support character, he's never been very offensive for me. Maybe I'm just using him wrong.

Fred!Gerome is really bad, which is a shame, cause I also really like that pair.

Virion is the other father for Brady who can give him +skl/spd. Personally, I usually go with Libra or Henry for Dark Mage skills, and the latter for axefaire war monk (for fun).

Brady initially isn't much of a lead unit given he has poor bases and cleric as a starting class. But he has the potential to be one of the best units, as regardless of who his father is, he has innate access to Galeforce (passed from Maribelle), Luna, and Tomefaire. I usually give him a Dread Scroll as soon as he's recruited, and then he picks up Aggressor and and gains a lot of stats quickly.

[NobodyInWonderland]

Fred!Gerome is really bad, which is a shame, cause I also really like that pair.

Out of curiosity, what pairing would you recommend instead of Fred? I've used Vaike Gerome a few times and he was pretty good - hit like a truck - but I'm using Vaike Kjelle in my current playthrough and I'm still unsure about who Gerome's father will be. (Ending class would be Wyvern Lord.) Edited November 20, 2015 by NobodyInWonderland

[MewMewExorcist]

Fred!Gerome is really bad, which is a shame, cause I also really like that pair.

Fred!Gerome can get Pavis, Aegis and Luna, which are pretty good skills. What fathers would you suggest for Gerome, instead of Frederick?