PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[Sias]

Thanks for the advice!

Is Virion X Gerome really that unsalvageable (Is it so bad that I won't actually be able to complete Apotheosis with it? is what I'm asking)

Nah.

You can complete Apo with pretty much any variant of a child, it's just that the better ones are more efficient at their jobs.

Anyways, Virion!Gerome is by far not the worst Gerome around, so you should be fine. Sure, you didn't get Berserker for him, but you have LB + Aggressor + Bowfaire as skill base and are then able to add some fillers (AS+2, Hit +20, DSup+, ...) on top of that to get a complete set.

And if you should still dislike his performance, remember that you are not necessarily going to deploy all of the children regardless because you also want to have staff/rally-support and need a slot for Chrom (possibly with wife) and maybe Olivia as well.

[Vascela]

Bowfaire Warrior is far from "unsalvageable."

[amiabletemplar]

Thanks for the advice!

Is Virion X Gerome really that unsalvageable (Is it so bad that I won't actually be able to complete Apotheosis with it? is what I'm asking)

To add a little onto what the others have already said:

Optimization in Awakening as I understand it is not a matter of "these things are good and those things are awful." In fact, it's pretty damn hard to truly "screw up" a child character. Even the really inadvisable combinations (like Gregor!Inigo, who gets *zero* new classes) are more a matter of "not as good" rather than "bad." Probably the only "bad" choice in the entire game is allowing Chrom to marry the Maiden rather than one of his potential brides--at least Sully gives additional classes and stats, for instance, though other moms give even more (e.g. Galeforce).

More or less, when someone recommends that you change to X instead of Y, it's not "Y is bad and X is good," it's "Y isn't as good as X." That "not as good" may be efficiency, it may be flexibility, it may be a slight drop in raw power--there's a lot of directions that can go. Honestly, I wouldn't be at all surprised if an intentionally "sub-optimized" set of children was still plenty good for tackling Apo. It might be more challenging, or more sensitive to mistakes/miscalculations/etc. during the fight, but it won't prevent you from tackling Apo. In fact, as I understand it, it's possible to complete all the DLC, including Apo, without recruiting any children (except Lucina, of course)--it's just harder.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

Thanks again for that input. Just for clarification, if it's possible to beat it without recruiting any children, just how poorly is it possible to even mismatch the 2nd Gen units? Sil3nt 4sh has children pairings, but if I choose a different set of supports, will it make Apotheosis considerably more difficult, or do the pairings in the 2nd Gen matter less?

Sorry if the question seems excessively nitpicky, I'm just trying to understand what makes good support pairings in 2nd Gen units. Recommendations are awesome, but I'd really like to know the reasoning behind choices in this game (or any game really).

[amiabletemplar]

Thanks again for that input. Just for clarification, if it's possible to beat it without recruiting any children, just how poorly is it possible to even mismatch the 2nd Gen units? Sil3nt 4sh has children pairings, but if I choose a different set of supports, will it make Apotheosis considerably more difficult, or do the pairings in the 2nd Gen matter less?

Sorry if the question seems excessively nitpicky, I'm just trying to understand what makes good support pairings in 2nd Gen units. Recommendations are awesome, but I'd really like to know the reasoning behind choices in this game (or any game really).

Who your supports are matters somewhat, but not dramatically. That is, you don't really want to pair a character with a high Mag/low Str class (like Sage or Dark Flier) with a character who will mostly use Str and ignore Mag (e.g. Berserker, Hero, Bow Knight, etc.) because you'll be "wasting" useful stat bonuses. But, because of the flexibility of fathers for most kids, you can almost always focus a particular character, or even several characters, on whatever it is you want from them and then find good matches from there.

For example, Inigo is naturally inclined toward physical stuff because of his stats and class inheritance from Olivia. So, in general, he works best either supporting a physically-oriented girl with Galeforce (say, Donnel!Kjelle), or as a male lead with a physically-oriented supporting girl who doesn't have GF (e.g. Noire if her dad isn't Gaius, Donnel, or MaMU). But if his dad is Ricken (or maybe Libra, to get Dark Mage too), Inigo will work as a perfectly fine Mag unit, and can support a magically-inclined girl (like Henry!Cynthia).

Really, there are only two/three parents you have to worry about. The first is Chrom, because you absolutely don't want to end up with him marrying the Maiden (and while it won't kill you, it does hurt to lose GF by marrying Sully). The second is Sumia: counting Chrom and the male Avatar, she only has 5 marriage choices, as opposed to the usual 13 (counting MaMU but not Chrom). In a file where a female Avatar marries Chrom, like I did with my most recent file, Sumia has only three possible husbands compared to 12 for all the other moms--and Gaius is already needed to help give Galeforce to a girl who wouldn't normally have it, so I only really had two options (Fred and Henry). The potential third parent is, of course, the Avatar--only because his/her presence can "free up" a dad you might have used elsewhere (e.g. +Str/-Def MaMU x Cordelia makes an excellent Severa--probably freeing up Lon'qu, Stahl, or Gregor), and because you ideally want to have Avatar stats that synergize with the natural direction of the children they'll have (so Owain generally wants a +Mag dad, while Kjelle generally wants a +Str dad).

From there, it's mostly a matter of determining what roles you want the other kids to fill, and pairing them up to try to match that as much as possible. As long as you avoid super-heavy class-overlap parents (like Gregor!Inigo, as I mentioned before), most kids have access to at least *one* class that boosts the stats you care about. Some are, of course, better than others, e.g. Sage is the highest +Mag, Berserker is huge +Str *and* +Spd with no "wasted" points on Def or Res, etc. Sometimes you just have to grin and bear it, though, like with Nah; the best physical class she can run is usually General (if she inherits it) or Wyvern Lord (if not), which is one reason why people often bench her if Morgan isn't "3rd gen."

So: don't sweat the support pairings TOO much. As long as you can mostly pair physical to physical and magical to magical, you'll be golden; even if you end up with a pair or two where one is Mag-focused and the other is Str-focused, it's not the end of the world. Even that shouldn't be hard to avoid though. It's hard to give many specifics, since dads can change the focus of their kids a lot, but for example most Kjelles will probably pair well with Inigo, while most Cynthias will probably pair well with Owain. Just think about the kind of units the parents are (especially the father), and let that inform your choices for which children should pair up. You can always run it past the thread, if you want critique or advice!

[CoolCoolCool]

Considerations for 2nd gen pairings are mainly:

1) Speed thresholds (e.g. will the +5 from berserker pairup allow you to hit a certain threshold, mainly 75 speed)

2) Matching physical with physical and magical with magical (which typically have complementary pairup bonuses)

3) How to use Nah (are you going to keep her and her husband benched, or pair her with a maleforcer to make her somewhat relevant)

4) If things don't match up perfectly, what class should you run instead?

The prototypical pairings are Sage x Dark Flier (magical) and 45 speed (from Class + Character Mods + AS+2 if needed) physical class x Berserker. Examples of this are Sniper Chrom!Cynthia or Sumia!Lucina, Wyvern Lord Gaius!Kjelle or

LQ/Virion!Severa or Bow Knight Gaius!Noire, all of which utilise the speed boost to hit 75 speed AKA max.

For your specific scenario, I would go with something like (and this is mainly a boring Sage/Dark Flier stack per your pairings)

Femu DF x Yarne Sage

Dark Flier Cynthia/Lucina/Noire x Sage Morgan/Inigo/Owain

Sage Brady x Nah (Hero lets Brady hit 75 speed; otherwise General or Sage for damage).

Kjelle/Severa x Gerome/Laurent

I would probably preference Severa x Gerome, as her best set might be Hero w/ LB/Galeforce/Vengeance/Faire/AS+2 and can hit 75 speed with berserker.

[LiterallyAPegasus]

Thanks for all the insight; these posts are really informative! I've looked up a lot of information regarding this stuff but it feels often like the reasoning behind choices aren't adequately explained in a lot of threads. This was all super helpful, so thanks again!

Is there a way to let Severa hit that speed threshold without Berserker, as I gave Gerome Virion and thus don't have access to it. Better to match her with Laurent, maybe?

Edited April 4, 2016 by LiterallyAPegasus

[aeroblast]

Chrom/Gaius seems like a no-brainer due to Galeforce for Lucina and Gaius outclassing Donnel.

- Cynthia can no longer get aether, so she just wants mods. Sumia herself is great for mods, but also might be needed for galeforce.

- Severa also mainly wants mods, but Cordelia might be needed for galeforce.

- Noire would love a second parent who gives Sage and Dark Flier. AKA Lissa, Sumia, Maribelle or Emmeryn.

- Kjelle just wants galeforce mainly. Sully gives a decent SPD mod to the other child, too.

- Nah wants galeforce and proc. Sumia, Cordelia, Aversa are the only options.

- Owain/Inigo both want a proc (luna or vengeance), plenty of options for that.

- Brady only wants mods

- Yarne wants galeforce + proc. Like Nah, Sumia, Cordelia and Aversa are the only options. Ideally Cordelia I think for mods.

- Gerome again falls into the same category of wanting galeforce + proc. So Sumia, Cordelia or Aversa.

- Laurent wants galeforce, but he already has vengeance so not really much else. Miriel ideal for magical partner.

So from this, I would start with combining Nowi/Cherche/Panne with Sumia/Cordelia/Aversa. Cordelia x Panne would yield insane mods for Yarne and Severa (4 STR, 5 SKL, 6 SPD). Probably Cherche x Sumia and Nowi x Aversa from there.

Tharja x Lissa would be good for both Noire and Owain.

Miriel x Maribelle would give Laurent galeforce, luna if he wants it and give nice mods to both.

This leaves Inigo and Kjelle. You could just run Olivia x Sully. Although Sully x Say'ri and Olivia x Flavia might work a bit better.

Lucina would obviously be great for FeMu. Otherwise Noire or Severa depending what class you are running.

Sounds great. Out of curiosity, what would Sully/Say'ri and Olivia/Flavia give over Sully/Olivia?

Edited April 5, 2016 by aeroblast

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Meh, no idea why you did Gregor!Severa when Ricken gives Severa her hair and more tools to work with (while Lon'qu!Severa and Virion!Severa are just too good).

Because Gregor!Severa's is much more redder than Ricken's. o3o

[CoolCoolCool]

Thanks for all the insight; these posts are really informative! I've looked up a lot of information regarding this stuff but it feels often like the reasoning behind choices aren't adequately explained in a lot of threads. This was all super helpful, so thanks again!

Is there a way to let Severa hit that speed threshold without Berserker, as I gave Gerome Virion and thus don't have access to it. Better to match her with Laurent, maybe?

Whoops, meant to say Severa x Laurent for the berserker pairup. Gregor!Severa has a +3 speed, and if you factor in the standard +25 (rallies, tonics, limit breaker, pairup) and AS+2, she would need to be on a base 45-speed class to hit max speed without a +speed pairup. So your options if you aren't married to a berserker are either: 1) Run Assassin Severa (slightly worse class than hero overall), 2) Run Virion!Gerome on a +SPD class like bow knight (but this costs him a TON of damage) or 3) just settle for 69+ speed (the second highest threshold) which you hit fine regardless.

[CoolCoolCool]

Sounds great. Out of curiosity, what would Sully/Say'ri and Olivia/Flavia give over Sully/Olivia?

In both cases, very marginally better mods. Kjelle gets +1 STR/DEF, +2 RES in exchange for -1 MAG/LCK

Inigo gets +2 STR in excange for -1 SPD.

You would lose effectively nothing whichever way you went, though.

[amiabletemplar]

Because Gregor!Severa's is much more redder than Ricken's. o3o

I've never paired Cordelia with either one, so I don't know how it looks on the 3DS screen...but the Wiki image is imperceptibly different to my eyes. When I c/p and crop the image to just those two, and zoom in really close, I can see that Ricken!Severa's hair is ever so slightly darker, perhaps with a very slight purple/burgundy shift. But otherwise, the two are almost exactly identical.

[CoolCoolCool]

http://imgur.com/qQgWELo

http://imgur.com/O5MW35c

Very similar colours to me as well.

[TheSilentChloey]

I think that Cordelia's support with Ricken is far worse than Gregor's is. If you wanted to factor in that as well.

Ok, now onto the most pressing issue for me. What should Lon'qu give to Owain? I have Lissa set to give the lad galeforce but as for what Lon'qu has...well I haven't sorted that out yet. Especially since DLC skills are not handed down (damn it). I will also have to work out what to have the Vaike hand down Brady (again mother's skill is set as galeforce). Is axefaire any good for a war monk build?

[amiabletemplar]

I think that Cordelia's support with Ricken is far worse than Gregor's is. If you wanted to factor in that as well.

Ok, now onto the most pressing issue for me. What should Lon'qu give to Owain? I have Lissa set to give the lad galeforce but as for what Lon'qu has...well I haven't sorted that out yet. Especially since DLC skills are not handed down (damn it). I will also have to work out what to have the Vaike hand down Brady (again mother's skill is set as galeforce). Is axefaire any good for a war monk build?

Both are sort of "whatever you feel like," since the absolute most you can get is "already did the grind on dad so son doesn't have to."

Since Owain starts as a Myrmidon like Lon'qu, your best bet is to give him something that will be immediately useful and would let him skip one of the two default promotions. Unfortunately, you kinda want both of the skills from Swordmaster (Astra is LQ!Owain's only proc, and Swordfaire is his main Faire), but don't really get much out of the two Assassin skills (Pass rarely matters, and Lethality is a very low proc rate early on.) That said, Swordfaire would be immediately useful, and would let you reclass at Swordmaster 5 rather than 15; a very small boost, but worth considering. LQ!Owain is probably still best as a Berserker in the end, though, so this may not amount to a substantial time savings. Any other skill you pass down, you're basically just "pre-grinding," that is, grinding up the parents so then the kids start out a little better.

Axefaire would be good if you plan to go War Monk, though War Monk isn't a very good class. If you want to do staff stuff, Sage is way better (but wastes that Str bonus from Vaike), and if you want to do Str stuff, Berserker is way better. If you want to leverage both Str and Mag, Dread Fighter is better. The only situation I can think of where you'd want War Monk is if Brady is supporting a female who needs a Str boost, but you need Brady to provide staff support--but that's a silly combination, since you can easily find a different boy to provide physical support (like Owain) and have Brady support a Mag girl (e.g. a Dark Flier Cynthia). Vaike!Brady gets a little benefit from Axefaire while going through Great Knight to get Luna, but since you really want to pass through Cavalier as well (to get Discipline, since I know you like to max out weapon skills) it's not immediately useful.

TL;DR:

Doesn't *really* matter. Swordfaire for LQ!Owain and Axefaire for Vaike!Brady are fine, but almost anything would be "fine." For Owain, Deliverer, Lucky Seven, Quick Burn, or a Breaker would be fine alternatives. For Brady, Counter, Sol, Lucky Seven, or Wrath would probably all be fine too. Do whatever you feel like; probably, that means doing whatever you already have on hand.

[TheSilentChloey]

Thanks Amiabletemplar. I'll have to see which skill will work to help Owain to do minimal grinding.

What skill should Henry hand down to Noire? I am thinking of despoil simply because I want to have minimal time spent in Golden Gaffe to get extra gold and the more units that have it the better (except for Severa because axfaire!hero might be better than despoil or is despoil a good option for the goal in mind?). He already has counter so there's that as an option as well.

[amiabletemplar]

Thanks Amiabletemplar. I'll have to see which skill will work to help Owain to do minimal grinding.

What skill should Henry hand down to Noire? I am thinking of despoil simply because I want to have minimal time spent in Golden Gaffe to get extra gold and the more units that have it the better (except for Severa because axfaire!hero might be better than despoil or is despoil a good option for the goal in mind?). He already has counter so there's that as an option as well.

If you're going to have Noire be a Sniper, Bow Knight, Sage, or Sorcerer, there's not a lot of value in Counter--even without considering that it's useless in Apo, Counter does nothing when a character doesn't take direct (e.g. melee) damage. Snipers won't ever (because they can't retaliate in melee) and Tome-users should avoid getting into melee whenever they can, more or less. A Vengence build for a Sage/Sorc (where you plan to take SOME damage) might be vaguely useful, but if that's what you go for, Wrath would be even better since it synergizes with Vengeance. (You're probably still best served by Luna without Counter *or* Vengeance, but these are options you could consider.)

Despoil isn't a bad plan at all. I've learned to love it myself--it's not hard at all to get ~50% chance of extra gold per kill, and that becomes much more valuable than the amount you get just from running a map (you can easily get 6 bullion per map from Despoil, when most maps only give 3 just from drops). Plus, it's extra income while you're specifically wanting to use that character a lot--not a bad combo. It doesn't help you much in the long run, but then again you're looking at pretty low-priority alternatives anyway. Another option, of fairly narrow use, is Axefaire, either for keeping Noire as a General (kind of a waste IMO but you could do it) or for making it easier to grind Great Knight to get Luna.

So yeah: skip Counter because it's too situational and doesn't fit Noire's best classes. Despoil is definitely good to shave off money-grinding time. Wrath pairs nicely with Vengeance, if you choose to use that, but I'm not sure if that is really optimal. Axefaire is a remote possibility, though using it carries a heavy opportunity cost.

Edited April 10, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[Sil3nt 4sh]

Libra!Inigo/Gregor!Laurent x (+Spd/-Def) FeMU!Lucina

Chrom!Morgan x Stahl!Severa

Libra!Inigo/Gregor!Laurent x Henry!Cynthia

Ricken!Owain x Henry!Nah

Virion!Yarne x Gaius!Kjelle

Lon’qu!Brady x Donnel!Noire

Frederick!Gerome x Bench

or

Gregor!Laurent/Libra!Inigo x (+Spe/-Def) FeMU!Lucina

Chrom!Morgan x Vaike!Nah

Ricken!Owain x Henry!Cynthia

Stahl!Yarne x Gaius!Kjelle

Libra!Inigo/Gregor!Laurent x Virion!Severa

Lon’qu!Brady x Donnel!Noire

Frederick!Gerome x Bench

I hope you guys don't mind but I would like some opinions on these sets as to which on is better in your view in term of diversity and combat effectiveness. Classes and skillset are also appreciated if you don't mind.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Sil3nt 4sh

[amiabletemplar]

Libra!Inigo/Gregor!Laurent x (+Spd/-Def) FeMU!Lucina

Chrom!Morgan x Stahl!Severa

Libra!Inigo/Gregor!Laurent x Henry!Cynthia

Ricken!Owain x Henry!Nah

Virion!Yarne x Gaius!Kjelle

Lon’qu!Brady x Donnel!Noire

Frederick!Gerome x Bench

or

Gregor!Laurent/Libra!Inigo x (+Spe/-Def) FeMU!Lucina

Chrom!Morgan x Vaike!Nah

Ricken!Owain x Henry!Cynthia

Stahl!Yarne x Gaius!Kjelle

Libra!Inigo/Gregor!Laurent x Virion!Severa

Lon’qu!Brady x Donnel!Noire

Frederick!Gerome x Bench

I hope you guys don't mind but I would like some opinions on these sets as to which on is better in your view in term of diversity and combat effectiveness. Classes and skillset are also appreciated if you don't mind.

Overall, the first set is looking slightly more favorable than the second, though there are one or two small tweaks.

One: Owain is naturally Mag-leaning and doubly so as Ricken!Owain; Vaike!Nah (I assume you meant this instead of Henry!Nah, since he's needed most on Cynthia) is best for physical stuff, so the pair-up bonuses for their best-choice classes are conflicting rather than harmonious. Better to pair him with someone naturally Magical--like Henry!Cynthia.

Two: Unfortunately, a lot of your Mag-leaning units are boys, making it a challenge to find a good pair for all three of Libra!Inigo, Ricken!Owain, *and* Gregor!Laurent. Would it be possible to swap Libra for Frederick? That would make Inigo a quality physical unit, without unbalancing any of your other pairings. If Libra and Olivia are already married, don't sweat it--it just means you may not be getting the fullest use out of Inigo and whoever he hooks up with.

My recommendations (which are fairly speculative, so definitely seek additional advice before following them):

Ricken!Owain (Sage) x Henry!Cynthia (Dark Flier)

Chrom!Morgan (Berserker) x Vaike!Nah (General w/Axefaire)

Gregor!Laurent (Berserker) x FeMU!Lucina (Wyvern Lord or Bow Knight) [Note: This pair is almost ideally flexible, so Laurent(Sage) x Lucina (Valkyrie or Dark Flier) works too.]

Libra!Inigo (Berserker) x Stahl!Severa (Hero or Bow Knight) [Note: You could also run Libra!Inigo (Sage) x Stahl!Severa (Dark Flier or Sorcerer), as this is a relatively flexible pair.]

Virion!Yarne (Berserker) x Gaius!Kjelle (Wyvern Lord or maaaaaaaybe General)

Lon'qu!Brady (Sage or Dread Fighter) x Donnel!Noire (Valkyrie or Bride) [Note: could also swing physical, with LQ!Brady (Wyvern Lord or Great Knight) x Donnel!Noire (Hero or Bow Knight).]

If you are able (and willing) to switch to Fred!Inigo, ignore the magical set (Inigo won't have access to Sage in the first place).

As usual with skill advice: always have Galeforce if you can get it; have an appropriate Faire if you can get it; put Aggressor on all males if you have the DLC for it; put Limit Breaker on every unit always; for boys that can't get GF (namely Laurent here) give Dual Support+ or another key female-only skill. Decide which unit of the pair is going to spend most of the time "in front," and give that unit one or MAYBE two proc skills, preferably Luna if you can get it, hopefully ones that synergize (e.g. Aether+anything but Lethality; Luna+Ignis; etc. For "hard" maps, Luna > Astra when you have to choose between them.) For characters with access to them, Dual Guard+, Dual Strike+, and Dual Support+ are all really nice skills since they work regardless of being front or back. If, after all of that, you still have a space or two left open, then go for a solid utility skill: Breakers are good, especially to patch a weakness; Deliverer is nice for bonus movement; All Stats +2 can be very useful; Armsthrift is always nice; hit/avo buffs (Lucky Seven, Quick Burn) or enemy debuffs (Anathema) are both great.

Avoid Counter, Lethality, and Sol. The first two are useless in Apo and counter-productive to get them to proc, typically speaking. Sol (and other recovery skills like Lifetaker) are "wasteful" because skillful play should be enough to keep your units alive, and taking a little damage is fine as long as you don't *die* from it. Individual "Stat +2" skills are of narrow application: most of the time they're worthless, but if they get you to a breakpoint (69 or 75 Spd, for instance) then they're awesome.

Edit:

Overall, you certainly have "flexibility" down, with half your pairs being relatively reasonably able to go either Str or Mag based without too much trouble. Some of that flexibility (e.g. Libra!Inigo) comes with a potency/synergy cost, but that's sort of how this kind of thing works.

Edited April 12, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[Sil3nt 4sh]

Once again, thank you once again. I hope to get more advice to make a solid set. I also meant Vaike!Nah instead of Henry!Nah. I didn't even notice until you mention it.

I wanted to use Fred!Inigo but then I thought about Gerome. Although I have no plans to use him in Apo DLC, I still wanted to use in other DLC as I equally like all the childrens,But if I did Fred!Inigo then the only fathers available to him are Libra and Kellam and I don't really know how well they work on Gerome and good set for them and that why I ended with Libra as Inigo's father.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Sil3nt 4sh

[Boingle]

I'm restarting my Lunatic/Classic run due to some unforeseen circumstances causing some RNG to be slightly less favorable for the first few chapters, I thought it wouldn't matter at much, but it really is screwing me over. Anyways, I've decided to try switching up some pairings and force a different one on myself since I always default to MU x Cordelia even in Fates with Caeldori. xD

I am having troubles matching up the last few parents and would love some help and some second opinions on them please. Also I am planning to take this team to Apotheosis. I won't be grinding until I beat the game, but I guess that's pretty irrelevant.

MaMU x Maribelle

Chrom x Sumia

Donnel x Sully

Gregor x Cherche

Gaius x Tharja

Stahl x Panne

Kellam x Nowi

Lon'qu x Cordelia

? x Lissa

? x Miriel

? x Olivia

I'm open to switching some of the pairings around if it helps create more diversity and/or efficiency, especially since Lon'qu x Cordelia makes me cringe really hard. The only two pairings I won't budge on are Chrom x Sumia and MaMu x Maribelle.

The only child pairing I'm aware of is Nah x The Bench and could use some help pairing them up for Apotheosis as well.

[Sil3nt 4sh]

I'm restarting my Lunatic/Classic run due to some unforeseen circumstances causing some RNG to be slightly less favorable for the first few chapters, I thought it wouldn't matter at much, but it really is screwing me over. Anyways, I've decided to try switching up some pairings and force a different one on myself since I always default to MU x Cordelia even in Fates with Caeldori. xD

I am having troubles matching up the last few parents and would love some help and some second opinions on them please. Also I am planning to take this team to Apotheosis. I won't be grinding until I beat the game, but I guess that's pretty irrelevant.

MaMU x Maribelle (Don't know asset/flaw to work with here but I recommend a +Mag asset to make Brady and Morgan an awesome Sage or Sorcerer. )

Chrom x Sumia (Best overall pairing for Chrom. A fantastic battle combat wife, a duty-bound older daughter who is very speedy compared to other Lucinas and a Pega Pony Princess as the younger sister who is freaking adorable with blue hair and can use Aether as well as her sister. What more can a man have.)

Donnel x Sully (I would stay with pairing as it pretty effective. Though Gaius is Sully's no. 1 husband, Donnel comes a close second and doesn't lose much compared to Gaius)

Gregor x Cherche (This is pretty good pairing as it make Gerome into a good tanking unit unlike other father that turn him into support bots but I like to give Gregor to Miriel to abuse Armshift!Sorcerer!Laurent which is pretty badass by himself. Good fathers for Gerome is Henry, Vaike and Stahl.

Gaius x Tharja (Best pairing for Noire to exist in my opinion. This pairing has a lot of versatility in terms of skills and classes. She can definitely play support or frontliner with the stuff she gets from Gaius. Donnel comes a close second to Noire as well.)

Stahl x Panne (Great pairing as a make Yarne into a good supporting unit for his wife or even a frontliner if you desire but stick with supporting. Hit Rate+, Dual Guard+, Luna, Vantage and many other wonderful skills this pairing give you. Other recommended fathers are Frederick and Virion)

Kellam x Nowi (This is an...okay pairing. It is certainly not bad but there many other pairing that can do better. I would like to introduce you to Vaike as he can make her into a wonderful physical supporter with Armshift to abuse to your heart content and an really toching support conversation that make that pairing my No. 1 OTP for Nowi or Henry to make her into a nice magical supporter.

Lon'qu x Cordelia (This was definitely a hyped pairing at one point since it allowed Severa to become a rather fast Sorcerer/Dark Flier. Lon'qu doesn't offer much in skills that Severa want but it his mods that make this pairing my second favourite pairing[Can't beat that Blue Hair!Severa from Virion]. Wyvern Lord is this build main course as it can reach 75 speed to double to Goddess!Anna in Apo DLC with All Stat +2, this is also the same as Virion. Lon'qu also make her a great Sorcerer due to her natural Armshift and Lon'qu passing down Vantage to her. Other recommended fathers include Stahl and Virion)

? x Lissa (Good husband for Lissa are Libra- give Owain good mods as well as get access to Sorcerer and with innate access to Vantage, he can play a high risk, high reward game with Vengeance. His Vengeance build is best played as a Sage, but go ahead if you want to use a sorcerer build or Ricken as he make Owain fills out the magical role pretty well but that is his only good class though as his mods doesn't suit physical unit that well compared to his magical options.

? x Miriel (Good husband include Gregor-although their mods conflict, it is not really that bad to be honest as it work itself very nicely in the end and give Laurent access to the infamous Armsthrift Sorcerer set and he even gets a complete VVW set or Ricken for the same reason as Owain above. I recommended Gregor though.

? x Olivia (Potential husband include Frederick and Libra. The nly thing Inigo want to be even more awesome than he is right now is Luna which Frederick pass down with good physical mods though his speed mod is kinda sad. Vengence is an alternative skills to let Inigo have which Libra passes down along with the infamous Sorcerer set and VVW set like Laurent. Libra!Inigo is more suited toward magical but have an option to go physical if you like diversity. I like Libra!Inigo)

I'm open to switching some of the pairings around if it helps create more diversity and/or efficiency, especially since Lon'qu x Cordelia makes me cringe really hard. The only two pairings I won't budge on are Chrom x Sumia and MaMu x Maribelle.

The only child pairing I'm aware of is Nah x The Bench and could use some help pairing them up for Apotheosis as well.

I know the feeling, my brother. RNG Goddess somewhat doesn't like me at all when playing Lunatic/Classic. I am a fan of Lunatic/Casual as it lower my blood pressure and doesn't increase the risk of waking up to see my 3ds smash against the wall.

If I had to form a team for your children units then I would;

MU!Brady x Chrom!Cynthia/Sumia!Lucina

Maribelle!Morgan x Ricken!Owain

Gaius!Noire x Stahl!Yarne

Lon'qu!Severa x Henry/Vaike!Gerome

Sumia!Lucina/Chrom!Cynthia x Gregor!Laurent

Donnel!Kjelle x Libra!Inigo

Nah x Bench

Typically, just match physical x physical and magical x magical units together and plenty of Rescue and Rally bots, you have yourself a team to challenge Apo DLC. I would still ask for more than my opinion but this is the best I could do. I have Lucina and Cynthia changing between different husbands because they are exactly the same in terms of mods and stats, only different is that Lucina gets Dual Strike + which help to acquire 100% Dual Strike and Rightful King which is not a bad skill but not necessary while Cynthia get.... absoulutely none of those.

Also I would like to know why you're marrying Maribelle. Don't get me wrong, I started to open up to her through various of conversation with other units but I'm the kind of person who like to involve a story with some of his pairings like MaMU x Lucina, a story where a princess from a ruin future and a mysterious tactician with an even more mysterious past. Against fate and time, they found each other. It become more touching when she soon realize that he is the same person who cause her future to be ruin yet didn't despise him but still love..... OMG I did it again. Sorry for rambling there for a moment. I hope this help you in creating your team.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Sil3nt 4sh

[Boingle]

I know the feeling, my brother. RNG Goddess somewhat doesn't like me at all when playing Lunatic/Classic. I am a fan of Lunatic/Casual as it lower my blood pressure and doesn't increase the risk of waking up to see my 3ds smash against the wall.

If I had to form a team for your children units then I would;

MU!Brady x Chrom!Cynthia/Sumia!Lucina

Maribelle!Morgan x Ricken!Owain

Gaius!Noire x Stahl!Yarne

Lon'qu!Severa x Henry/Vaike!Gerome

Sumia!Lucina/Chrom!Cynthia x Gregor!Laurent

Donnel!Kjelle x Libra!Inigo

Nah x Bench

Typically, just match physical x physical and magical x magical units together and plenty of Rescue and Rally bots, you have yourself a team to challenge Apo DLC. I would still ask for more than my opinion but this is the best I could do. I have Lucina and Cynthia changing between different husbands because they are exactly the same in terms of mods and stats, only different is that Lucina gets Dual Strike + which help to acquire 100% Dual Strike and Rightful King which is not a bad skill but not necessary while Cynthia get.... absoulutely none of those.

Also I would like to know why you're marrying Maribelle. Don't get me wrong, I started to open up to her through various of conversation with other units but I'm the kind of person who like to involve a story with some of his pairings like MaMU x Lucina, a story where a princess from a ruin future and a mysterious tactician with an even more mysterious past. Against fate and time, they found each other. It become more touching when she soon realize that he is the same person who cause her future to be ruin yet didn't despise him but still love..... OMG I did it again. Sorry for rambling there for a moment. I hope this help you in creating your team.

I actually marry Lucina pretty much every time I don't marry Cordelia so I feel you there man. For the exact same reason as you as well. I'm actually giving Maribelle a shot because of the very first dialogue between you and her where Vaike rips a pretty crazy belch and you comment on having much to learn in those arts. Then Maribelle says how she hoped you were cut from a finer cloth. What she said stuck with me there so I was thinking that Robin would have to prove himself to her as the Shepherds' tactician and it develops from there. But I totally understand wanting to involve a story, I mean I just created one for Maribelle and Robin no? xD

Anyways for pairings here's what I got:

Chrom x Sumia

MaMu x Maribelle (+Mag-Lck MU)

Henry x Cherche

Virion x Cordelia

Stahl x Panne

Vaike x Nowi

Donnel x Sully

Gaius x Tharja

Ricken x Lissa

Gregor x Miriel

Libra x Inigo

I haven't tried quite a few of these pairings so I hope it goes well.

Thanks for the help so far.

[amiabletemplar]

Once again, thank you once again. I hope to get more advice to make a solid set. I also meant Vaike!Nah instead of Henry!Nah. I didn't even notice until you mention it.

I wanted to use Fred!Inigo but then I thought about Gerome. Although I have no plans to use him in Apo DLC, I still wanted to use in other DLC as I equally like all the childrens,But if I did Fred!Inigo then the only fathers available to him are Libra and Kellam and I don't really know how well they work on Gerome and good set for them and that why I ended with Libra as Inigo's father.

My pleasure. I'm still relatively new to FE:A optimization, but patterns emerge as one examines the data and I'm happy to pass that along (and what others, particularly in this thread, have told me).

It's true that those two aren't your ideal choices for a father on most characters, but then again, Gerome isn't exactly an ideal character to work with in the first place (can't get Galeforce without MaMU as father, Str-focused but doesn't naturally have Berserker). Kellam offers more diverse choices for classes, but the stats are slightly inferior (of the ones worth caring about, it's +1 Str, -1 Mag, -2 Spd, -1 Lck).

Kellam!Gerome has some clear advantages for the physically-inclined, whether he mostly sits in the front or the back. Luna access is good for being in front, and both L7 and DG+ are good pretty much anywhere. Great Knight slightly edges out Wyvern Lord for raw strength, a small boost for a back unit. Libra!Gerome opens the magical path, but in so doing only provides 2 new end-classes (Gerome already has Sage via Priest, and Mage/Dark Mage both give Dark Knight). Libra!Gerome could go either physical, e.g. Wyvern Lord (or Warrior) with LB, Agg, DSup+, Vengeance, Quick Burn(/Swordbreaker if needed) *or* magical, e.g. Sage (or Dread Fighter) with LB, Agg, DSup+, Vengeance, and Tomefaire. So I guess it's "Do you want a flexible front-runner (Libra!Inigo) and a pure-physical male support (Fred!Gerome), or a semi-flexible support (Libra!Gerome) and a pure-physical front runner (Fred!Inigo)?" Both are valid choices.

I actually marry Lucina pretty much every time I don't marry Cordelia so I feel you there man. For the exact same reason as you as well. I'm actually giving Maribelle a shot because of the very first dialogue between you and her where Vaike rips a pretty crazy belch and you comment on having much to learn in those arts. Then Maribelle says how she hoped you were cut from a finer cloth. What she said stuck with me there so I was thinking that Robin would have to prove himself to her as the Shepherds' tactician and it develops from there. But I totally understand wanting to involve a story, I mean I just created one for Maribelle and Robin no? xD

Anyways for pairings here's what I got:

Chrom x Sumia

MaMu x Maribelle (+Mag-Lck MU)

Henry x Cherche

Virion x Cordelia

Stahl x Panne

Vaike x Nowi

Donnel x Sully

Gaius x Tharja

Ricken x Lissa

Gregor x Miriel

Libra x Inigo

I haven't tried quite a few of these pairings so I hope it goes well.

Thanks for the help so far.

These are pretty good. Libra x Inigo is probably the only one I'd quibble about, since (purely IMO) Inigo is most naturally suited to being a physical unit, and you have the option since Fred is unmarried. But you really wouldn't *need* to switch. Anything else is a matter of examining trade-offs or putting a slightly different spin on a character (like switching to Virion x Panne and Stahl x Cordelia--though the latter does give Severa Luna, which is better on a front-runner like a GF girl than it is on a mostly-back-support char like Yarne).

Edited April 13, 2016 by amiabletemplar

[TheSilentChloey]

You're spreading a lot of misinformation:

-Gerome can never inherit Galeforce. I thought you it was a mistypo, but you actually believe Male Robin passes Peg Knight lmao. Male Robin, Gerome, Yarne, and Laurent can never learn/inherit Galeforce without hacking.

-Fred/Kellam!Gerome is bad because he doesn't contribute in Apo. If you have bad kids (Kellam!Nah, Fred!Gerome, Donnel!Owain, etc) just bench them and deploy more Rallybots/Rescuebots. You should only be deploying good units, bots, and Olivia. Fred!Gerome isn't valid, he sucks with average bonuses and no Axefaire to increase his attack. He's only high on the OUTDATED UNOFFICIAL gamefaqs list because some trolls tried very hard to get Donnel!Owain and Fred!Gerome to S and Lucina to F.

It's more efficient to pair Libra and Olivia and deploy a Rallybot/Rescuebot then it's to compromise Inigo and Gerome and failing at both.

-Your opinion is wrong. Magic > sword Inigo if your pairings allow it and magic is overpowered in Awakening.

-Again, misinfo. Luna is slightly better on the Galeforce units in the back and Vengeance is slightly better on the Galeforce unit in the front. Also, Severa doesn't need Luna when she has access to Vengeance

Not everyone is perfect, I'm sure that depending on how you look at it, those pairs are viable; just not in the sense of apo.

That said here is what I would make of it:

Frederick is not as good a father for Gerome because of some classes overlap with Cherche and Kellam is better for the bench as we well know. MaMu is Gerome's best father but I don't like a pink/red haired Morgan, so I wouldn't do that pairing. I guess from what I understand it is better for Gerome to have access to classes that improve his strength. In the end though I always go for Virion because bowbreaker on Wyvern Lord is something that I need.