Canto Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I have a question about Stahl x Cordelia. The principle behind this pairing is that the only things Severa wants/needs is Vantage and Luna, both of which are obtained from Stahl. Is it really optimal to give her BOTH though? Severa already has vengeance, and the reliability of Vengeance in terms of procs makes in superior to Luna, at least in terms of Vantage tanking. Wouldn't it be more optimal to give Severa Lon'qu or Gregor or someone with just vantage so that Stahl can go to someone in need of both Luna AND Vantage? Or is there really nobody that actually NEEDS both of those, so Stahl may as well give them to Severa so that she has options? I think the general logic behind Stahl!Severa is this. Galeforce units have priority over non-Galeforce units. Lucina and Cynthia can't be fathered by him, and Nah, Noire, and Kjelle don't get Galeforce when fathered by him. It's not particularly optimal to have him father Owain, Inigo, or Brady since they have one of the two and can get the other from a different parent (Stahl!Inigo in partucular is basically an inferior Ricken/Chrom!Inigo) -- though Owain sometimes gets him because he has limited options (normally Libra/Henry/Ricken) and Frederick/Kellam tend to be avoided since they give him a negative speed mod. So, your choices are between Severa, or one of the Galeforceless boys or possibly a Nah/Noire without Galeforce (brcause lol Stahl!Kjelle). Severa generally takes priority because Vantage/Vengeance and Galeforce/Luna are both obscenely good combinations and she stands a likely chance of using either, and a more versatile Galeforce unit is better than a more versatile non-Galeforce unit. ...Or something along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) I have a question about Stahl x Cordelia. The principle behind this pairing is that the only things Severa wants/needs is Vantage and Luna, both of which are obtained from Stahl. Is it really optimal to give her BOTH though? Severa already has vengeance, and the reliability of Vengeance in terms of procs makes in superior to Luna, at least in terms of Vantage tanking. Wouldn't it be more optimal to give Severa Lon'qu or Gregor or someone with just vantage so that Stahl can go to someone in need of both Luna AND Vantage? Or is there really nobody that actually NEEDS both of those, so Stahl may as well give them to Severa so that she has options? No one can (or rather, should) take advantage of VV and Luna at the same time. Vantage+Luna by itself is okay but not my first choice. But there are many reasons Stahl!Severa makes a lot of sense.1. She gets Luna, Swordfaire, +0 spd, and Assassin all at once. Vaike is the only other comparable dad at this point (+1 spd, pass Axefaire). 2. It gives the *option* to VV tank (with Armsthrift!) when needed. Few kids can get both without being tied to the build. 3. Being a female VV user, she isn't wasting opportunities to abuse Aggressor. 4. She has both the option to go Lancefaire Paladin or Bowfaire Bow Knight for support. Only possible with Stahl/Ricken. I mean, the pairing basically makes her a 3rd Morgan. None of the other Galeforce kids stand to gain nearly as much from Stahl as she does. Nah its not to late. Damn, now I have 3 to choose from. Its so difficult... I don't want to make somebody feel like they wasted their time....Just pick whichever yields children that best fit your play style. :) With Sumia's +5 modifer, the 39 speed cap on Wyvern Lord goes up to 44, which is just as doable, plus the added strength. If anything I actually thing you may want to go Wyvern Lord, then get Swordbreaker to break any possible Wyrmslayers and the only weapon in the triangle she doesn't have, she can therefore now control it (swords break axes).Those numbers are... not correct. Sumia has a +3 spd mod, Frederick has -2, and wyvern caps out at 38. So Cynthia would hit an even 40 speed. Wyvern Lord has really poor pair up bonuses, so I would not recommend that choice. Falcon Knight or Paladin all the way (with Pally being my preference and personal suggestion). Lancefaire, Luna, and a couple shields/breakers. Edited August 25, 2013 by Meteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) No one can (or rather, should) take advantage of VV and Luna at the same time. Vantage+Luna by itself is okay but not my first choice. But there are many reasons Stahl!Severa makes a lot of sense. 1. She gets Luna, Swordfaire, +0 spd, and Assassin all at once. Vaike is the only other comparable dad at this point (+1 spd, pass Axefaire). 2. It gives the *option* to VV tank (with Armsthrift!) when needed. Few kids can get both without being tied to the build. 3. Being a female VV user, she isn't wasting opportunities to abuse Aggressor. 4. She has both the option to go Lancefaire Paladin or Bowfaire Bow Knight for support. Only possible with Stahl/Ricken. I mean, the pairing basically makes her a 3rd Morgan. None of the other Galeforce kids stand to gain nearly as much from Stahl as she does. Just pick whichever yields children that best fit your play style. :) Those numbers are... not correct. Sumia has a +3 spd mod, Frederick has -2, and wyvern caps out at 38. So Cynthia would hit an even 40 speed. Wyvern Lord has really poor pair up bonuses, so I would not recommend that choice. Falcon Knight or Paladin all the way (with Pally being my preference and personal suggestion). Lancefaire, Luna, and a couple shields/breakers. Wait, it's not? o.o Oh, shoot, I'm so sorry. I must have mixed someone up or something... Edited August 25, 2013 by Vashiane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Luna's one of the best procs in the game. You definitely want to keep it. Um. I'd say remove Pavise over Aegis since Aegis can counter two of her biggest problems as a Wyvern Lord: bows and magic. Thanks for the help, I think this is what I'll do :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Why have pavise or aegis? They're too unreliable to be useful, and late game you shouldn't even be taking damage. Also, wyvern's skill is stupidly low. I like paladin!Cynthia with LB, GF, Luna, Deliverer and lancefaire. But hey, some people on here are smarter than I am. Actually, this set would work well as a wyvern lord, too, so if that's what you want, go for it! Anyway, Stahl can be used for Panne, Cordelia, Lissa (Only for original class tree), or Cherche. He makes Severa perfect because of access to luna and myrmidon, so why use anyone else? The next best is Vaike or Lon'qu, and then you only get one or the other when it comes to classes. And Stahl!Inigo is quite good, actually, the only problem is that he is better used somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Why have pavise or aegis? They're too unreliable to be useful, and late game you shouldn't even be taking damage. Also, wyvern's skill is stupidly low. I like paladin!Cynthia with LB, GF, Luna, Deliverer and lancefaire. But hey, some people on here are smarter than I am. Actually, this set would work well as a wyvern lord, too, so if that's what you want, go for it! Anyway, Stahl can be used for Panne, Cordelia, Lissa (Only for original class tree), or Cherche. He makes Severa perfect because of access to luna and myrmidon, so why use anyone else? The next best is Vaike or Lon'qu, and then you only get one or the other when it comes to classes. And Stahl!Inigo is quite good, actually, the only problem is that he is better used somewhere else. Oh don't be like that. So is Stahl like a Frederick replacement for Inigo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Why have pavise or aegis? They're too unreliable to be useful, and late game you shouldn't even be taking damage. Also, wyvern's skill is stupidly low. I like paladin!Cynthia with LB, GF, Luna, Deliverer and lancefaire. But hey, some people on here are smarter than I am. Actually, this set would work well as a wyvern lord, too, so if that's what you want, go for it! Anyway, Stahl can be used for Panne, Cordelia, Lissa (Only for original class tree), or Cherche. He makes Severa perfect because of access to luna and myrmidon, so why use anyone else? The next best is Vaike or Lon'qu, and then you only get one or the other when it comes to classes. And Stahl!Inigo is quite good, actually, the only problem is that he is better used somewhere else. Oh gosh, that is so not true, I completely got the latter half of my argument WRONG. :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Oh don't be like that. So is Stahl like a Frederick replacement for Inigo? I was mainly taking about Meteor and Canto Actually, Fred is like a Stahl replacement for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 Stahl is essentially a better Frederick Because Vantage > Pavise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimeanRoyalKnight Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Why have pavise or aegis? They're too unreliable to be useful, and late game you shouldn't even be taking damage. Also, wyvern's skill is stupidly low. I like paladin!Cynthia with LB, GF, Luna, Deliverer and lancefaire. But hey, some people on here are smarter than I am. Actually, this set would work well as a wyvern lord, too, so if that's what you want, go for it! Anyway, Stahl can be used for Panne, Cordelia, Lissa (Only for original class tree), or Cherche. He makes Severa perfect because of access to luna and myrmidon, so why use anyone else? The next best is Vaike or Lon'qu, and then you only get one or the other when it comes to classes. And Stahl!Inigo is quite good, actually, the only problem is that he is better used somewhere else. Ah... I don't have LB unfortunately. The only DLC I plan to get are EXPonential growth and the maps with the DLC classes, but thanks for the suggestions :) I'll keep this in mind. Edited August 25, 2013 by CrimeanRoyalKnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 Then DG+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeoandReo Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Oh don't be like that. So is Stahl like a Frederick replacement for Inigo? Stahl's actually a Chrom (and arguably Ricken) replacement for Inigo, of all things, since both pass the exact same class set, Cavalier and Archer as well as decent physical modifiers. Fred gives Knight for Pavise to work with his natural AT/Sol/etc. while Ricken gives what Stahl and Chrom do, but also Sage so he can Celica's Gale some fools. I think it's actually one of the best uses of Ricken along with Owain and Yarne, if I might say so myself. The way that I see it, it's Ricken and Kellam that are usually the replacements of Stahl and Fred respectively, because all Great Knight fathers are the same although there are a few kids that can take fuller advantage of what the replacements offer, Inigo being one of them. Edited August 25, 2013 by HeoandReo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) I'd say for Inigo it's MU (Because he's best for everyone, not because bias) >>>>>>>>> Chrom > Stahl > Frederick > Virion. I really can't use magic Inigo at all when others (Laurent, Brady, Owain) need the magic and Inigo doesn't. For me it's usually this: Lucy- Olivia > Sumia > Maribelle Owain- Henry > Ricken > Libra Inigo- Chrom > Stahl > Frederick Brady- Lon'qu > Gregs > Henry Kjelle- Donny > Vaike > Gaius Cynthia- Henry > Gaius > Chrom Severa- Stahl > Vaike > Lon'qu Gerome- Gregor > Frederick > Stahl Yarne- Gregor > Stahl > Frederick Laurent- Lon'qu > Gregor > Ricken Noire- Gaius > Donnel > Lon'qu Nah- Gaius > Vaike > Donny Edited to add in fathers: Frederick- Gerome, Inigo, Yarne Virion- Brady, Inigo, Owain Vaike- Nah, Kjelle, Severa Stahl- Severa, Severa, Severa (Also Yarne and Inigo) Kellam- Yarne, Gerome, Nah Donny- Kjelle, Noire, Nah Lon'qu- Laurent, Brady, Severa Dicken- Owain, Owain, Owain Gaius- Noire, Nah, Kjelle Gregor- Laurent, Gerome, Yarne Libra- Nobody cause he sucks Owain, Brady Henry- Cynthia, Owain, Inigo, Brady Edited August 25, 2013 by Duck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I questioned the notion that Chrom x Olivia is optimal Good thing a certain someone is not here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 I'd say for Inigo it's MU (Because he's best for everyone, not because bias) >>>>>>>>> Chrom > Stahl > Frederick > Virion. I really can't use magic Inigo at all when others (Laurent, Brady, Owain) need the magic and Inigo doesn't. For me it's usually this: Lucy- Olivia > Sumia > Maribelle Owain- Henry > Ricken > Libra Inigo- Chrom > Stahl > Frederick Brady- Lon'qu > Gregs > Henry Kjelle- Donny > Vaike > Gaius Cynthia- Henry > Gaius > Chrom Severa- Stahl > Vaike > Lon'qu Gerome- Gregor > Frederick > Stahl Yarne- Gregor > Stahl > Frederick Laurent- Lon'qu > Gregor > Ricken Noire- Gaius > Donnel > Lon'qu Nah- Gaius > Vaike > Donny So umm I should put Inigo with Stahl on my Lunatic file which would shift Frederick to Yarne? And who would need Gregor more? Gerome or Brady? If not Brady then who needs Lon'qu more? Him or Laurent? God so many questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 25, 2013 Author Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) Well, luna and no speed decrease, plus vantage and assassin on Lucy, I'd say it's pretty optimal. So umm I should put Inigo with Stahl on my Lunatic file which would shift Frederick to Yarne? And who would need Gregor more? Gerome or Brady? If not Brady then who needs Lon'qu more? Him or Laurent? God so many questions... I'd say the pairings you have are fine, but it doesn't really matter, whichever floats your boat. Edited August 25, 2013 by Duck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeoandReo Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 (edited) And who would need Gregor more? Gerome or Brady? If not Brady then who needs Lon'qu more? Him or Laurent? God so many questions... Brady's one of those kids along with Cynthia and Inigo who you could give even a garbage or leftover dad like Virion and he'll still turn out fine, so I'd put him as lower priority than Gerome and Laurent. For Gregor!Gerome vs. Gregor!Brady, both like Vantage and Axefaire, although Gerome already has Hero so he doesn't really care too much about Mercenary. I'd probably say that Gerome would prefer Stahl over Gregor if he's doing frontining or backlining, but it depends on who else is around. (Well, that and everybody wants Stahl so it's no guarantee) As for Lon'qu!Brady vs. Lon'qu!Laurent, while I personally prefer the latter, I have to admit that Brady probably makes better use of Lon'qu overall. Laurent only really wants Vantage and speed. The rest is gravy and can work well with a support set since he already starts with Barbarian and Hex/Anathema and is likely to inherit Dual Support. As for Brady, he likes Deliverer/Movement+1 for Galeforce offense and gets a whole horde of support options to work with in addition to what he has. (Galeforce, Aggressor, Dual Guard) Edited August 25, 2013 by HeoandReo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 (edited) > So umm I should put Inigo with Stahl on my Lunatic file which would shift Frederick to Yarne?I would not recommend Stahl!Inigo. He gets too little out of the deal. Frederick!Inigo would be way more useful. S!Yarne > F!Yarne anyway.> And who would need Gregor more? Gerome or Brady?Gerome, definitely. The mods are more appropriate, and he really likes Berserker access for Axefaire and the class itself. He's also a great candidate for Armsthrift, which lets him indiscriminately slap enemies around with a Brave Axe.> If not Brady then who needs Lon'qu more? Him or Laurent? God so many questions...Laurent also is better suited to sitting in the back of a pair up and raining fire, so he really doesn't care about Lon'qu's mods or class selection 95% of the time. However I do like giving him a Vantage father so he can tank occasionally, and he's better for that role than Brady is. If Lon'qu is the last opportunity to nab myrmidon access, give him to Laurent and have Brady take Virion (who I am assuming is available). Edited August 26, 2013 by Meteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 I don't think I've been really paying attention to things.. Why is Stahl x Cordelia so great? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteor Posted August 26, 2013 Share Posted August 26, 2013 If that's not sarcasm, I refer you to the first two posts on page 11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 Actually, my Lon'qu!Laurent soloed paralogue Aversa (I don't know the number). I prefer Laurent as a sweeper as opposed to a support, but Ricken!Laurent is probably best for a support Laurent. And would Lon'qu!Laurent!Morgan be superior to R!Laurent!Morgan? I'm going to use one for Apo no LB original class run so he gets sage in his original class tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeoandReo Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Actually, my Lon'qu!Laurent soloed paralogue Aversa (I don't know the number). I prefer Laurent as a sweeper as opposed to a support, but Ricken!Laurent is probably best for a support Laurent. And would Lon'qu!Laurent!Morgan be superior to R!Laurent!Morgan? I'm going to use one for Apo no LB original class run so he gets sage in his original class tree. I tend to prefer Lon'qu!Laurent!Morgan over Ricken!Laurent!Morgan mostly because 3 more skill and speed is quite a bit more significant to him than 2 more magic, and Sorcerer becomes a lot more viable for him since the class suffers otherwise from its low speed cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symphony Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 All right. I'm getting Olivia!Lucina, Chrom!Inigo, Kellam!Nah, Lon'qu!Severa, Henry!Cynthia, Libra!Brady, Gaius!Noire, Vaike!Gerome, Donnel!Kjelle, Ricken!Owain, Stahl!Yarne, Gregor!Laurent, and Gerome!Morgan. (Forgive me if I've misspelled anyone's name; correction is welcome.) My asset is strength; my flaw is magic. I am not looking to replace any of these, though criticism and questions are welcome. I'm wondering about a good way to pair up the remaining child units. I'm playing on Normal/Casual, so I suppose it doesn't matter, but I'll be using this set for a Hard run as well (With Nah!Morgan and +defense -magic instead), and then a Lunatic run once I get accustomed to the gameplay. Have you any ideas? I'm especially interested in why; a simple pairing won't convince me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vashiane Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 All right. I'm getting Olivia!Lucina, Chrom!Inigo, Kellam!Nah, Lon'qu!Severa, Henry!Cynthia, Libra!Brady, Gaius!Noire, Vaike!Gerome, Donnel!Kjelle, Ricken!Owain, Stahl!Yarne, Gregor!Laurent, and Gerome!Morgan. (Forgive me if I've misspelled anyone's name; correction is welcome.) My asset is strength; my flaw is magic. I am not looking to replace any of these, though criticism and questions are welcome. I'm wondering about a good way to pair up the remaining child units. I'm playing on Normal/Casual, so I suppose it doesn't matter, but I'll be using this set for a Hard run as well (With Nah!Morgan and +defense -magic instead), and then a Lunatic run once I get accustomed to the gameplay. Have you any ideas? I'm especially interested in why; a simple pairing won't convince me. Do you have any idea as to final classes/skills you want on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM ME MARIANNE ART Posted August 27, 2013 Author Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) All right. I'm getting Olivia!Lucina, Chrom!Inigo, Kellam!Nah, Lon'qu!Severa, Henry!Cynthia, Libra!Brady, Gaius!Noire, Vaike!Gerome, Donnel!Kjelle, Ricken!Owain, Stahl!Yarne, Gregor!Laurent, and Gerome!Morgan. (Forgive me if I've misspelled anyone's name; correction is welcome.) My asset is strength; my flaw is magic. I am not looking to replace any of these, though criticism and questions are welcome. I'm wondering about a good way to pair up the remaining child units. I'm playing on Normal/Casual, so I suppose it doesn't matter, but I'll be using this set for a Hard run as well (With Nah!Morgan and +defense -magic instead), and then a Lunatic run once I get accustomed to the gameplay. Have you any ideas? I'm especially interested in why; a simple pairing won't convince me. If you don't mind switching a bit around, I'd say Stahl!Severa, Lon'qu!Laurent, and Gregs!Yarne. Either way works, but with this one Severa becomes perfect, Yarne gets AT to be the ultimate support unit Zerk, and Lon'qu!Laurent is more about sweeping over Gregs!Laurent. These two are the best for him. Either way will work. Virion!Brady might be better for more class choice, but Libra provides sorc, which is cool if you're into that (I'm not). Also, for when you're not using Gerome!Morgan, I would recommend Fred!Gerome. It gives him paladin and more balanced stats (But again, either will work). On another point, I might recommend against third gen Morgan. Morgan WILL be godly no matter what, so why let another child be less good in exchange for one slightly better child who will be almost the same if you marry a first gen over a second gen. If you are using a FeMU, then 2nd gen would be good, but for a MaMU, I would recommend marrying Nowi instead of Nah. That way you get two really good children over one god child. Third gen is overrated even for lunatic. I beat lunatic with the setup in my sig, and I didn't use third gen. Conclusion: For FeMU, third gen is fine, for MaMU, go with Nowi, Sully, or Tharja to maximize galeforce. EDIT: Just realized you only wanted second gen pairings. Well, then just ignore me. Edited August 27, 2013 by Duck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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