Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Paper: not true. Kirsche, Refa, Boron, scorri, and Shinori are all people who I think are town or null (and have never called scummy). I've accused Cam once of doing something scummy, but that was (I'll admit) kind of silly. I said I kind of bought the reasoning on scum!Kay, but since updated my read to say that I think she's town. I've dropped my read on you for the most part, BBM is on the back burner for now since his recent posts haven't pinged for me, it's basically just Shin and Objection at this point. (Also let's not forget there's a presumed SK among BBM/Cam/Boron...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 the SK could be anyone, not just them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 (Also let's not forget there's a presumed SK among BBM/Cam/Boron...) ... You do realized that a SK doesn't have to necessarily be among the three mystery roles, right? Alignments were predetermined before the game even started. So any person with any role can be the SK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 the SK could be anyone, not just them Paperninja ;/ I am aware that my vote is on Objection at the moment. I still think that he's scum, but if we're going to leave him alive to empower Shinori tonight I suppose I could hold off my vote for now. Will look through the thread again to see who else I would most support lynching at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Oh, hmm... I guess I think of SK as a role, not just an alignment... Also, prims confirmed that everyone started this game as vanilla, I thought that meant that the ITP didn't exist until N1... I misunderstood the posts about this before. Doesn't matter, I know now and it didn't affect me too much. Update to my previous post: My most recent mention of Cam was actually townie on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Hmm I still have bad feelings about scorri but I'm not really opposed to shooting Kay I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Paper: really? You haven't said much about Kay to this point... why her? Also, what about Shin (individually, not related to Objection this time)? Seems scummy to quite a few people, useless role, why not him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I think that BBM, Cam, kevin, Objection, Refa, Boron, and Shin are reasonably unlikely to be mafia although any of them could be SK. That leaves you, Kay, scorri, and Shinori. I don't want to shoot the latter two because of Shinori's role, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Paperblade, what are you basing the not-mafia read on Shin from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I've already stated my thoughts on Shin. His initial posts and vote reasons don't look very well explained, but when pressed to do so his reasonings actually aren't horrible. (Not to mention that he plays pretty much EXACTLY THE SAME regardless of alignment so no silly meta stuff here). I can't say whether I think he is town or scum at this point in the game, and I wouldn't support a lynch on him unless I had no choice but to do so. Okay, so, I finally got myself to read through Grassbridger's content, as I said I would back in D1. Almost all of Grassbridger's content focused on finding BBM (and later Paperblade) scummy. What bothers me about his case on BBM is that he tried to use the meta argument, despite not having really played many games with BBM (and none when BBM was scum). The Jalmont vote was weird because he stated that his "scumvibes" on BBM hadn't changed at all, but he chooses to pressure vote Jalmont, and then he moves his vote on Weapons afterwards? My issue with this is that he had a scum read on BBM at that point. It didn't change. If you have a scum read, why are you voting people for pressure or for more content, unless you find them scummy because of their lack of content? Grassbridger's post 4 hours before deadline implies that he did not find Jalmont nor Weapons scummier than BBM and Paperblade, and yet he left his vote on Weapons although he found at least BBM scummier. Now, I know that Weapons flipped scum, but this reminds me of Xenoblade mafia where Prims voted for his scum buddy, Core, without really explaining said vote and accidentally got him lynched, but got town cred until the end of the game for it. Grass also continues to say that he is still okay with lynching Jalmont. He continued to find BBM scummy in D2, but never actually voted him once. Jumps onto the Objection wagon simply on the basis that Objection didn't empower Shinori (did you find anything else than Objection did scummy, or is it just the not-empowering Shinori thing?) and tries to link Shin and Objection as scum buddies for reasons I don't feel are very strong. I mean, I understand you finding them both independently scummy, but it feels like you're jumping the gun trying to link them. If not Objection, I wouldn't mind lynching Grassbridger. A close look at his ISO and his interactions with other players do not sit well with me. Will tackle scorri's content later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 gah i have a tech support meeting in like 20 minutes so i don't have time to compose a full thing but i'm fine leaving my vote where it is until consolidation becomes an issue i feel like objection pushing so hard for shin/objectionteam is a bit of a towntell the same way that kay's pushing on boron is a tonwtell, but i'm not quite as sold on this one since both shin and objection have been, if not related to each other, independently rather scummy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 oh yeah i may not be around for phase end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Ugh, wow, I got extremely unmotivated to do anything with this game, sorry about that guy. Uhm, right. I approve of the reaction test there Paper. It leads me to continue to believe that my town read on Refa was a correct one. Beyond that, I'm still not liking Objection, especially with his whole "I probably won't empower you because I think you're scum" stance towards Shinori. I don't like Boron's "I think Objection is scum, but if we're leaving him alive I'll be ok with that I guess." If you think he's scum, why would you want to let him go? Just because of his role isn't really a good reason. We're trying to lynch scum, not let people live because they have a useful role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 i am 95% certain that even nontown!objection will be useful to us alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 when pressed to do so his reasonings actually aren't horrible.can you point out an example of this? just skimming his ISO i can't see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I don't like Boron's "I think Objection is scum, but if we're leaving him alive I'll be ok with that I guess." If you think he's scum, why would you want to let him go? Just because of his role isn't really a good reason. We're trying to lynch scum, not let people live because they have a useful role. That's not exactly what I said, scorri. I'd prefer to have Objection lynched above anyone else right now. However, if everyone else wants to leave him alive because 1) they don't feel strongly he's scum or 2) they want to give him another chance to empower Shinori, and if it becomes painfully obvious near phase end that he is NOT going to be lynched today, I'm not going to let my vote sit useless on someone who is not even getting lynched. That is what I meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Boron: it was pretty clear nobody else was going to vote for BBM. Why would I keep my vote there if it's not going to affect his action, not going to convince anyone else to vote for him, and not going to get him lynched? Also, the last time I talked about my scumread on BBM (before saying a few minutes ago that he was "on the back burner") was during the night phase, not during the day. If I could have voted him during the night, I would have, but I couldn't and then there was the whole cop thing which quickly became much more relevant than picky language issues. As for D2--I voted Objection for one reason, yes, but I did back off of that vote when people convinced me I was, as you said, jumping the gun. You seem to take issue with me voting players I find scummy and/or calling those players scummy in-thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 That's not exactly what I said, scorri. I'd prefer to have Objection lynched above anyone else right now. However, if everyone else wants to leave him alive because 1) they don't feel strongly he's scum or 2) they want to give him another chance to empower Shinori, and if it becomes painfully obvious near phase end that he is NOT going to be lynched today, I'm not going to let my vote sit useless on someone who is not even getting lynched. That is what I meant. and cut, but interestingly your reasoning for (potentially) moving your vote off Objection is exactly the same as mine for moving mine off BBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 can you point out an example of this? just skimming his ISO i can't see it Posts 468, 479, and 552 seem to at least explain his thought processes well enough for me to get where he's coming from. I'm not saying that I completely agree with him, but that he at least appears able to explain the logic behind his posts when pressed for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Boron: it was pretty clear nobody else was going to vote for BBM. Why would I keep my vote there if it's not going to affect his action, not going to convince anyone else to vote for him, and not going to get him lynched? Also, the last time I talked about my scumread on BBM (before saying a few minutes ago that he was "on the back burner") was during the night phase, not during the day. If I could have voted him during the night, I would have, but I couldn't and then there was the whole cop thing which quickly became much more relevant than picky language issues. As for D2--I voted Objection for one reason, yes, but I did back off of that vote when people convinced me I was, as you said, jumping the gun. You seem to take issue with me voting players I find scummy and/or calling those players scummy in-thread. Grassbridger, you dropped your vote on BBM in D1 relatively EARLY. If you are honestly convinced that someone is scum, then you don't simply drop it because "nobody else was going to vote for BBM". That is what I take issue with. You dropped your vote on BBM at a point in the game where you could have continued to build a case on him that was not based on meta stuff. You could have found ways to explain your suspicion on him in ways that other people might have agreed, but you didn't. In the VERY SAME POST where you moved your vote off BBM and onto Jalmont, you explicitly stated to me that the mild scumvibes you were getting for BBM hadn't changed, but you thought it was due to meta. This was on page 6. And yet you don't explain where these scum vibes are coming from, you just stated they're there and moved your vote. and cut, but interestingly your reasoning for (potentially) moving your vote off Objection is exactly the same as mine for moving mine off BBM It is not, on the sole basis that we have less than 24 hours left to consolidate right now and you moved your vote off BBM (who you found scummy) when we had almost 37 hours left in the phase. You didn't even bring up your BBM (and then Paper) suspicions until there were 4 hours left before D1 ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Paperblade, what are you basing the not-mafia read on Shin from?I think that if he didn't understand my role his team would've told him, although that requires them to have discussed me, since otherwise it's possible he made an assumption that was never corrected. He's one of the people I'm less sure about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 ugh I could also shoot grass since his role is sort of annoying and a lot of people find him scummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 am I still voting Refa ##Unvote, ##Vote: scorri I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Can we have votals? Or did I miss them and am just blind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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