Kirby Mafia - Game Over

[BBM]

Also with the Weapons part- it still seems odd to say that he completely would not lynch Weapons just because he perceives Jalmont as scummier.

I think part of the reason I'm having trouble reading Cam is because I can't even remember the last time he was this active, so I have no idea what bar to compare him to.

I approve of the PR btw.

[BBM]

Also, Shin (not to be confused with Also Shin), in #424 you said that you could see my point about Refa and that you find him somewhat scummy. Yet in #486, your latest post, you said that you can't really find anything that pins him as scum. Why the disconnect? It's particularly weird because in this post you point out some somewhat suspicious stuff right before that. Why does none of that amount to anything more than a null read?

[CT075]

I think part of the reason I'm having trouble reading Cam is because I can't even remember the last time he was this active,

i think "never" sums that up about now

I approve of the PR btw.

are you volunteering for tomorrow????

also i'm reading what happened bbl

[BBM]

I had enough of that PR in Spellcard. If you give it to me I will take Paperblade's Dayvig and shoot you.

I don't really like GB's Objection vote. Even if the entire scumteam DIDN'T realize that Paperblade doesn't make sense for a fake target, by the time Objection posted, Shin's mistake had already been pointed out. There's no way of proving whom Objection targeted- we just know he didn't target Shinori. Why wouldn't Objection then have lied and said that he targeted someone completely else?

[CT075]

I had enough of that PR in Spellcard. If you give it to me I will take Paperblade's Dayvig and shoot you.

i'm allowed to choose the PR

still rereading, just periodically checking the last page to see if anything new came up

[Paperblade]

Objection is stupid but probably not scum

also please make the PR not something that makes me want to shoot you

[Paperblade]

I'm not really happy with scorri's defense of Refa either

[Shin]

Also, Shin (not to be confused with Also Shin), in #424 you said that you could see my point about Refa and that you find him somewhat scummy. Yet in #486, your latest post, you said that you can't really find anything that pins him as scum. Why the disconnect? It's particularly weird because in this post you point out some somewhat suspicious stuff right before that. Why does none of that amount to anything more than a null read?

Refa hasn't posted in a good while. Whilst his previous behaviour was slightly scummy, I'm yet to form a decent opinion of him after so long. But yeah, I can see why you flagged that up.

Also scorri, my eyes burn so much, I can't even read what you have to say! Cam, you monster! Make it Goldie speak.

[CT075]

not-game related response posts:

Cam has the most posts itg

brb killing self

i am truly a god

WOW THIS POSTING RESTRICTION SURE IS FUN!!!!

you volunteered :P

also please make the PR not something that makes me want to shoot you

itg paper volunteers

Cam, you monster! Make it Goldie speak.

/bow

i take it you're signing up, too?

now that that's out of the way

I think a shin/objection scumteam is possible, but I don't quite see it enough that we have enough to lynch one should the other flip scum

esp. this post by paper which has a bit of mod-meta'ing that i don't quite subscribe to

wrt refa i don't know what to make of him. i dislike how he basically sat his vote on jalmont and then didn't even really say anything related to the two wagons at that point. another minor thing that niggles at me is how when he did post, refa seemed to be sort of buddy buddy with boron.

would not be opposed to inactivity vig if he doesn't show

[CT075]

also if anybody has an issue with my choice of PR's, prims has said he will flat out reject the action if it isn't sufficiently amusing, so i'm going to be using largely font change restrictions (as any other kind of restriction can impede clarity which is bad)

[BBM]

I don't think it's quite mod meta as much as the mod just clarifying basic things about the rules/mechanics.

[CT075]

but regardless we do'nt know if that happened, and as such i don't think we should take that possibility into account

[BBM]

Refa hasn't posted in a good while. Whilst his previous behaviour was slightly scummy, I'm yet to form a decent opinion of him after so long. But yeah, I can see why you flagged that up.

Also scorri, my eyes burn so much, I can't even read what you have to say! Cam, you monster! Make it Goldie speak.

If he has no new posts, shouldn't your opinion of him have stayed the same? Your opinion earlier was slightly scummy. I can understand if you reread and start looking upon the same stuff slightly differently, but that's not what you're stating.

[Grassbridger]

Well, I lost a post...

I see Paper's argument, Objection looks slightly less bad though I'm not sure on the mod meta, Shin still looks independently scummy though. So

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

Scorri sure has been defending Refa a lot, but I don't buy the argument on Refa really, so the scorri/rest team looks less likely to me than the Objection/Shin team.

Why shoot Refa if he'll just get modkilled for 48 hours without a post? Seems like a waste..,

[Prims]

Day 2.3 - Votals

Kay (2): kirsche, Shin

Objection (2): Boron, scorri

Shin (2): Shinori, Grassbridger

Boron (1): Kay

Refa (1): BBM

scorri (1): Paperblade

Shinori (1): Objection

Not Voting (2): CT075, Refa

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. You have about 39 hours and 30 minutes left in the day.

[scorri]

What about my defense of Refa do you not like? The fact that I find a scum tell of yours town? I'm sticking with my gut here. I don't find Refa especially scummy, and I'm not going to change that just because you don't like it.

Also, I still find Objection scummy. He hasn't tried to do anything with his reaction test, I don't know who he thinks is scummy, and he's posting just enough to avoid getting modkilled. I'm perfectly content to leave my vote here.

[The Objection!]

If it wasn't a reaction test then I really question why you did it. It was a test to see if you could end RVS? That seems worse IMO than a weird reaction test.

My reaction to your 'test' is part of the reason why it would be a reaction test. If you weren't looking for a reaction this part seems off. "Easy vote-switch to weapons." WEAPONS WAS SCUM DUDE. Also I explained why I dropped the BBM case I believe. This + the previous herp with the empower role was awful.

So be honest did you not empower me solely because it was an accident? Or were you lying and you didn't empower me because you thought I was scum?

This defense by Shinori doesn't makes sense unless he knew that weapons is scum before the flip.

And this is the last post where you mentioned BBM AT ALL.

This was the reasoning for swapping to weapons which seems weak and forced and I heavily dislike it.

I didn't disregard it I just didn't like his explanation for it.

Because I saw literally no reason to swap off of jalmont and then randomly swap to weapons for no reason. It seemed random and awkward and forced. I disliked your reasoning for it.

I was not saying that you should say nothing about it. But I'm pretty sure you could have promoted discussion in a different way other than talking for someone else. I don't entirely think it's townie for talking for someone else. In worst case scenario it could just help scum when they can just agree with what you said.

If there's an explanation for dropping the case here, I don't see it.

Will keep my vote for now.

Me not empowering you was an accident, but I don't think I would have empowered you anyway since you seem scum enough to me. Not to mention weapons choosing to vote Jalmont (who flipped town) over yourself.

Refa should post, really.

Meanwhile, Shin

I haven't liked Objection from his "reaction test", which was bad to start discussion or something. His answer to Boron makes him look pretty bad. Apparently he had no justification to vote for Weapons other than to vote to please people. Especially since he said he didn't find him that scummy. Otherwise his posts are pretty lazy, and I don't feel he goes into enough depth. He's in the "somewhat scum" part of my list. His empowering was bad too, why not use it on Shinori?

The bolded parts are wrong. Number 1, if it was bad you should've done a better job. (not wrong just eh..) Number 2, I think you meant Jalmont and I didn't vote him to please people, he looks worst at the time and I think you didn't read my explanation. Number 3, I derped, and this point has been explained.

Your points against me are either a misrep or outdated recited points from other people.

[BBM]

>_> Objection, you'd better empower Shinori in the future. If he's scum, the worst that happens is that our chance of blocking the kill reduces, if he takes the kill in the first place. Except if he's scum, the mafia clearly didn't have him take it on N1, so saying you're not going to empower him doesn't harm him in any way if he's scum, since his role is not especially useful for the mafia. However, if he's town, it means that we can't use our strongest power role without leaving it open to getting nightkilled by the mafia. Townread or not, if you don't empower Shinori tonight, I won't defend you from lynches.

As for Weapons voting Jalmont over Shinori, that was more a point in Jalmont's favour than a point against Shinori. In that situation, even though Shinori was a plausible lynch, the only case in which Weapons would vote for him is the case where Jalmont is his scumbuddy. Otherwise if both Jalmont and Shinori are town, it just makes more sense to vote the one with more votes on them, Jalmont.

Scorri, you didn't actually respond back to what I said in response to your defence of Refa.

[BBM]

Refa is most definitely on his computer. Pretty sure he's purposely avoiding the thread. If Prims doesn't modkill him, shoot him IMO.

Kay's attack on Boron seems a little more personal than actually game related, so mean! A lot of her reasoning is about ridiculous silly meta. It seems ridiculous for anyone to go to those lengths, and just as ridiculous that someone would suggest that.

I never said directly that my vote on Kay was because of a personal attack. I've specified quite a few good reasons such as the sudden dropping of the Jal case and the tunnelling on Boron which my critics have unfortunately overlooked but that's cool I guess!

You didn't say that you were voting Kay only for the personal attack, and you did specify other reasons for the Kay vote not quoted here, but saying that you never directly said you were voting her for a personal attack isn't true.

I'm pretty sure Refa is scum, and I want a dayvig shot on him, but my vote there is useless while he doesn't post. ##Unvote

Not sure if I want to vote Shin or Grassbridger. I don't like how Grassbridger seems to base stuff off associative reads without a flip, but Shin's posts have looked contradictory in several places. Kay's frustration looks sort of genuine and it makes me not want to vote her.

[Grassbridger]

BBM: where am I basing stuff on associative reads without a flip? Yes, I'm making associative reads, but for both my Objection vote and my Shin vote, I thought they looked independently scummy. I'm making the associative reads because it looks like Shin announced "If I was scum, I'd need to bus Objection" and then started bashing Objection, as well as both of them making the same Paper/vig mistake which could explain Objection's empowering Paper. I promise, though, I do understand the base rates involved.

[BBM]

Your entire vote on Objection consists of him not empowering Shinori. When it was pointed out to you that if Objection was scum he'd have a better excuse for not doing so, your response was "not if Shin is Objection's scumbuddy".

[BBM]

Your entire read on Objection consists of him not empowering Shinori. When it was pointed out to you that if Objection was scum he'd have a better excuse for not doing so, your response was "not if Shin is Objection's scumbuddy".

Sorry, fixed. I forgot for a second that you were voting Shin and not him.

[Grassbridger]

Your entire vote on Objection consists of him not empowering Shinori. When it was pointed out to you that if Objection was scum he'd have a better excuse for not doing so, your response was "not if Shin is Objection's scumbuddy".

Yeah I think it's incredibly scummy, but I did have slightly more... I found it rather incredible that town!Objection, with his scumread on Shinori, wouldn't think to connect his target of Shinori with that. In other words, the fact that his excuse didn't mention his scumread on the guy he chose not to target, is scummy to me. Also, I just don't buy the "he'd have a better excuse if he was scum" argument. Assumes optimal play by scum, etc. Especially given that at least one player has admitted to making that same mistake that would be required, and that player is already looking scummy on his own.

[BBM]

You took what I said you were doing about the "he'd have a better excuse as scum" argument and said the exact same thing, just leaving Shin's name out this time.

And I don't see what's scummy with not tying it to his scumread on Shinori. Seriously, where's the scum intent in that?

[Paperblade]

##Shoot: Refa