Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 You took what I said you were doing about the "he'd have a better excuse as scum" argument and said the exact same thing, just leaving Shin's name out this time. You may have missed my actual response to your argument, which was "I don't buy it, assumes optimal play by scum, etc." And I don't see what's scummy with not tying it to his scumread on Shinori. Seriously, where's the scum intent in that? town!Objection has a real scumread on Shinori, that will affect his decisions. scum!Objection has a fake scumread on Shinori that he has to remember about, but might forget if he's not thinking things through carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 BBM: where am I basing stuff on associative reads without a flip? Yes, I'm making associative reads, but for both my Objection vote and my Shin vote, I thought they looked independently scummy. I'm making the associative reads because it looks like Shin announced "If I was scum, I'd need to bus Objection" and then started bashing Objection, as well as both of them making the same Paper/vig mistake which could explain Objection's empowering Paper. I promise, though, I do understand the base rates involved. I believe you've misread what I said. Firstly, I've not been a fan of Objection since early game, and you're grasping at straws when it comes to a shared mistake. If that's all it took to flag up scumteams, mafia games wouldn't last very long at all. My statement was not saying what I'd need to do as scum, more that I'm really not a fan of Objection. But you read things how you want to interpret them, no? BBM, you're overemphasising half a sentence, especially since I've said a lot more about Kay than that one line. Her crazy assumptions about someone who's pretty town right now look pretty bad. If Boron's game was weak elsewhere, Kay might have had a point, but that's not the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 If Objection were my scum buddy, my win con would have to be get Objection lynched. I'm not a fan on one-liner list posts of reads and a lot of them are poor. I can appreciate that time is often an issue, but "posts are weird" and "posts aren't bad" really don't constitute as decent reads. How exactly is this not saying that scum!you needs to try to bus Objection? Firstly, I've not been a fan of Objection since early game There is literally zero evidence in your ISO to support this claim, other than saying "Objection's boring". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I didn't like the reaction test, but I guess you can ignore stuff like that when you've got a list of lynches you need to get through! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Show me where you said this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Before the inevitable REFA DEAD FLIP, just want to apologize on my lack of activity; kind of busy with school starting and all, and well, kind of totally forgot about this thread i'msorrykirby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 are you scum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 good thing that shot wasn't the right syntax then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 lol really I don't really like how Refa conveniently came into the thread right after getting shot, but I'm not sure whether or not he'd just lie there. I'd still like him to respond to my case, and to update reads and stuff. You may have missed my actual response to your argument, which was "I don't buy it, assumes optimal play by scum, etc." town!Objection has a real scumread on Shinori, that will affect his decisions. scum!Objection has a fake scumread on Shinori that he has to remember about, but might forget if he's not thinking things through carefully. It doesn't assume optimal play, it assumes that Objection isn't stupid. And if Objection had been like "I didn't empower Shinori because I thought he was scum", I would have considered that way scummier than saying he simply didn't see the plan to have him empower Shinori. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 NO BALLSYBUMBLINGMOTORCYCLE HAS MORE POSTS THAN ME MUST REMEDY THIS eheheh Alright, let's go, grassbridger's theory i don't think it's a for sure thing that objection and shin are the same alignment. i see the argument and it's kind of there, but then there are some points that are kind of not so much (confirmation bias is a thing, after all). I'm disliking shin more and more (will compilation in a bit) also i support shooting refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 It doesn't assume optimal play, it assumes that Objection isn't stupid. And if Objection had been like "I didn't empower Shinori because I thought he was scum", I would have considered that way scummier than saying he simply didn't see the plan to have him empower Shinori.Really? That's not what I would have thought. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 WOW EPIC CUT reposting sec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 I don't really like how Refa conveniently came into the thread right after getting shot, but I'm not sure whether or not he'd just lie there. I'd still like him to respond to my case, and to update reads and stuff.Refa had been reading the thread for a bit (presumably catching up or something) which is why I faked it then Although that doesn't excuse him from not posting I'm not sure if I just disagree with grass on most things or if I think he's scum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 alright i would really rather not lynch objection today at least (both because i find shin a lot scummier and for a secondary reason), gimme a moment to compile my shin case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 lol really I don't really like how Refa conveniently came into the thread right after getting shot, but I'm not sure whether or not he'd just lie there. I'd still like him to respond to my case, and to update reads and stuff. I was creating a response, but then I checked the end of the thread, and turns out I got vigged or something. Will continue after all, I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 OK, shin's post-by-post analysis (fun fact: i considered springing rainbow colors on him out of nowhere because he was barely posting but i figured i would probably get lynched for that) Shin claims that he's been finding objection scummy all along. I don't see that. The first time he seriously mentions his reads of objection are here, where he claims that "objection is just paranoid and therefore null". He also makes a bit of a show here of suspecting BuddyBuddyMafaeioua because of how he was defending objection, and then turns around in his next post (admittedly two days apart but he doesn't really elaborate). Additionally, Shin made a point of talking about Jalmont (and voting for him) while neglecting to even mention weapons; I was going to call him out on it at the time but I forgot. here, he has this whole thing about kay that i don't really get, and then also makes a jab at me (which immediately gets dropped???) D2 stuff, Shin was the third vote on the Kay wagon, for mostly flimsy reasons ("she's personally attacking boron and she's posting way more than she usually does as town"). His next stuff I don't really have anything to say about, until this, where shin makes a really non-committal fence-sitting post on Roofa, and then goes on to say that he's disliked Objection ever since the "test" (which i've already shown that, at most, he was null on him before). Finally, he then turns back to Kay while sheeping my reasoning. tl;dr shin's been fence-sitting and using lazy and/or flimsy reasoning whenever he does commit ##vote Shin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 oh yes, i don't know whether he and objection are scumbuddies; grassbridger doesn't have me convinced yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 ballsybumblingmotorcycle? more like BALLSYBAMFMOTORCYCLE AWW YEAHHHHH @Grassbridger- The latter thing might be something that a townie might do accidentally. The odds of a townie seeing people telling him to empower Shinori and then just choosing not to are comparatively much worse, which is what I said to Objection when he spoke about doing it this night phase just now. I guess that makes sense wrt Refa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Shin claims that he's been finding objection scummy all along. I don't see that. The first time he seriously mentions his reads of objection are here, where he claims that "objection is just paranoid and therefore null". He then proceeds to not say anything about objection until grassbridger makes his claim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Paper you promised us a vig shot what happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassbridger Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 He was setting up the fake on Refa, apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 What bothers me about grass is I feel like he's just finds everyone scummy. Like, it gives him an out to vote literally anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 how much time is left in the phase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 like 22 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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