AM/PM Mafia - GAME OVER

[Elieson]

Literally no idea what to do now, since No voting means jack.

Kay/Straw; opinions on prims' persuasion suggestion?

[Kay]

Fair enough, Eli.

Skimming ISOs and briefly rereading some stuff makes me more convinced that Kevin is not doing a ton. He seems to be defending people much more often than pushing any scumreads and the main thing I notice is just insisting on lynching day players a lot and arguing that drunkposting shouldn't be ignored, which doesn't seem valid anyway since Clipsey was saying his drunkposts were automatic nullreads, not that they were irrelevant to discussion. So probably Kevin and Eli are my top suspicions, because of PoE in Eli's case and partly PoE in Kevin's case.

Regarding the persuasion, the logic is sound enough, although I obviously object to the target. I'd say persuade him to Kevin, but eh.

[Elieson]

Holy Hell, my eyes are burning from staring at my screen for 3 hours while building this ISO.

[spoiler=Cowbell's Weird Reads, Courtesy of Eli']

[spoiler=Notable Quote Dump]

Pretty much everything Cowbell has said about Rein all game. Except Fun fact, he also has a scumread on Kay and Shinori apparently. Check out what happened to those.

@Kirsche none of the above. I have a tendency to speak concisely because I don't like to reveal the machinations behind my reads. WIth that said;

Paperblade worries me. I'd like to think he's town, but I can't shake the feeling that he's scum.
BBM is prob-scum. I do not for the moment buy his claim, or that he was shot last night after claiming it, UNLESS the vig comes out as saying that he made that shot.

If we're going to hit someone in the day, the biggest one I'm leaning scum on is Captain America. I have a townread further but mostly null reads.


Again; we should seriously be lynching among the night folk. My reasons for suggesting it still apply.

If anyone has anything else in particular they desire a response on, say it in your next post.

I just got verbally abused by a courier. I think they were town because I simply can't see scum wasting a message on me at this point of the game. They seemed highly in favour of Scum!Blitz.

As far as day players are concerned my only scumreads are Captain America and Shino.

I have a scumread on Shino because he

-Is hyper aware of how he is viewed by others. EX:325
-Switches his votes in ways and at times that make me uncomfortable.
-Obviously isn't reading the game, and so probably isn't all too worried about scumhunting.

I have a scumread on Captain America because he

-Doesn't make much effort to push his reads.
-Constantly apologizes for stuff.
-Is always in favour of the current wagon.

They all add up to a person who doesn't want to be ignored and not tread on anyones toes.

And in 302, the way he was dancing around calling Blitz scum while not voting for him makes me suspect he could be scum partnered with Blitz.


I reiterate the fact that I hate how we're lynching from the day pool. With regards to night:, ether is prob-town, and PB and BBM are prob-scum. I'm keeping my rationale to myself because explaining myself would suggest scum strategy. Also, Mr. Courier, no need to be such a hater.

Blitz is null to me and I would prefer to lynch someone else, preferably one of the night players.

No seriously. Vote Captain America.

If town wants to let you set up two consecutive mislynches, that's fine.

You're obvious scum. If Shino goes through and you don't end up getting lynched tomorrow, town deserves what it got.

It's coming. I'm busy doing an assignment atm so I don't have a decent length of time to do it.

Relax.

I'm not lynching Shino today.

I'll vote between Captain America and Mafia Sucks.

Alright, that's enough out of you.

##Unvote
##Vote: Captain America

Me or him today.

Shinori

• Votes Shinori for his case that I UNDERLINE ITALICIZED ABOVE ,
• later retracts his scumread on Shinori here
• and furthers retracts it here
• and here
• and here too

Kay

• Apparently, Kay's scummy in his only mention of Kay ever, but never presses it or explains why.

Blitz

• Waffles on Blitz here, calling him both null and rein's scumbuddy.

BBM

• Pressing BBM since the very beginning of the game, in his posts 2, 3, 4, 6, 7. I'd link them but an ISO will show them easily. Varied crap explanations and a votepark sum his BBM case up.

[spoiler=Blitz s 8 posts']

• Town Reads

• Calls BBM Town in like all his posts where he mentions him
• Ether (Poked about it, recieved "towntell" results)

• Scum Reads

• Cowbell
• Kay
• Paperblade
• Weapons

• ​(I think) Null Reads

• scorri
• Strawman

Interesting to see that Blitz is posting reads on players opposite to what they are/may be.

[spoiler=Decifering BBSCUM is hard work]

This post stuck out to me, mainly because seeing Blitz's flip makes me think that BBM was trying to force some sort of bus on Ether, as he apparently did it for blitz, to earn towncred.

Rein was my only townread after that phase. There sure is something wrong when he's the most active person in the thread. Speaking of Rein, if your persuade is mandatory Elie, Blitz or Ether probably make better targets.

Also says this.

I purposely only used three of my Courier messages (Rein, Kirsche, Rein)

Not sure how I wanna interpret this, but it builds to something else. Something else that strikes me as fucking weird as shit.

BBM sent me a message. He got hit.

Why would scum!BBM send a message out to kirsche of all people saying he was hit? Earlier, he said;

Null on Kirsche

Why would BBM send a message to a null read? Not sure how to interpret this, but I think it gives me more of a townread on kirsche, in conjunction with an earlier Rein ISO that I can't be arsed to put back together after losing it. He could've just faked sending a message and talked to Rein or kirsche as a potential scumbuddy, but I see him wanting to mislead people via messaging more than faking a conversation like that.

After those maddening ISOs, I've learned that decifering BBM is about as difficult as robbing the Stock Market with a bow and arrow. Cowbell is acting badly but doing things that so strongly imply cluelessness that make his scummy behavior look more Try-hard strange than bad. He's smart (knows what an INNO is), but can't pull together a case on Rein longer than a few short bullet points that rein proposed a rebuttal to. Kay is Kay, and Blitz has a pattern of calling town scum, and scum town. Putting faith in Blitz dropping tells about Ether/Eclipse brings me to this.

[spoiler=A Breakdown on Eclipse (Because Ether" s contributions were not town but whatever?)]

Put this in the first post, kthx


Unless I am misreading this horribly, this implies that one of Rein/kirsche is mafia. After reading D1, I'm null on kirsche due to rum being a horrible drink, and don't really feel like lynching Rein, who is doing an amazing job of talking.


Elieson's biggest townread. I also agree with his sentiment (will explain when I get to the end of N1).


This logic stinks. If you're gonna claim something like BPV, and the vig thinks you look scummy, why NOT test it? Worst case scenario is that you lose the BPV. Best case? Dead scum.


You went from meh to suspicious by getting touchy about your own claim.

END OF N1: The Paper/Prims thing is a null on Prims, because he's prone to lying about everything. I'm not feeling a Paper lynch, because of Weapons' flip (yes, this didn't technically happen on N1, bite me). Since Paper hasn't been shot, I'm inclined to believe his claim. Furthermore, mafia vig makes no sense in my mind. Of the night talkers, I'm willing to lynch BBM based on his reaction to his claim. Kay needs to be subbed out; she posted NOTHING during N1. Not really reading anyone else in the night group as scum, despite Prims' antics.

Every vote that isn't mine before this post requires explanation.


I like seeing the logic that drives reads and votes. This gives me a better idea of your logic, which in turn helps my reads. I don't care about your town reads unless they're being lynched. I WOULD like to know what you don't like about Paperblade/BBM, and why. I may agree with the BBM read, but I want your views in your own words. I absolutely do NOT like your conclusion on Paperblade, and I think it needs to be explained.

I think all the votes on Paperblade are terrible, and would not object to a lynch any of the people doing so based on Weapons' flip alone. I can't take my vote off of Shinori, and that message I got wanted to lynch Blitz. Speaking of Blitz, he's got slightly more content than Ether, and I got on Ether's case for it. His Paperblade vote is absolutely empty, and I'd vote for him only on that, but I can't. Thus, it's gonna be up to you guys to do it.

Voting priority is Shinori = Blitz ? Cowbell (where Cowbell fits into this will be determined by him explaining his reads). I'm not wholly convinced that the person is a cop - if said person wants to drive a Blitz lynch based on a cop result, message your strongest townread with this information. I need to go to bed, and won't be back for most of the phase, so messaging me will waste most of the remaining day.

kirsche, can you explain your scorri vote from D1? Rein, can you keep talking?

RE: Calls BBM suspicious (which I imply as meaning scummy)

RE: [Weakly] Calls voting priority towards only Shinori and Blitz, and makes no mention of BBM after calling him suspicious. This is her first indication of any scumreads worth voting for, and it's pretty weak at that.

Got off of work early.

I have no idea what Blitz wants me to explain.


I didn't see a serious wagon on Ether (one that would force him to participate or be lynched). He was definitely around, and had I been playing, I would've called that out (you guys need to RP more).

If I posted "I'm not going to say anything relevant about the people playing this game", does it give you any sort of read? To me, it reads like someone who's trying not to interact with others, and that is extremely scummy. Now, look at who I replaced. I am arguing for a lynch on myself, based on what my previous incarnation did.

I won't hold you to anything regarding drunkposts, because you're not necessarily in the most coherent state of mind. As any motive can be written off as "I'm drunk", I'm not inclined to read it as anything but null. This holds true for other states of mind as well (other substances, extreme stress, etc.)


I don't know. That's something you need to clarify with him.


So that's what you meant. My apologies. Rum sucks


[spoiler=Not related]Whiskey > Rum. Get at me.

No objections to the Blitz lynch, as his latest posts didn't change my read. Can't participate myself, so you'll have to take my word that you're getting my full support.

No Objections = No Commitment. I know you can't vote, but if you feel that someone is scummy and worth a vote, do something to imply that you think they're worth lynching. Do not just act like "eh it's ok if we lynch blitz idc"

Dammit, lost my post. Let's try this again.

- Didn't care for Shinori's Paperblade logic, and after reading this, I am even less thrilled about him. He's getting his latest reads from dead!Weapons, not his own conclusions. Will not object to his lynch, because lazy reading is lazy.
- Didn't care for Blitz's Paperblade logic, and he went and defended it after I pointed out why I refused to lynch Paperblade (mafia vig makes no sense, unless it's a bastard game or something equally silly). Same courier that messaged me earlier was kind enough to point out that it wasn't a cop scan; however, I don't disagree with the sentiment within the message. Will not object to his lynch, because that vote on Paperblade was That Bad.
- After seeing Cowbell's logic, I'm not interested in lynching him today. However, I think that town should post their logic as loudly as possible, because if they flip, their role can help to explain their posts, which in turn can help to clear/lynch someone.
- Would lynch BBM over how touchy he was about his own claim; however, I don't think we have enough people to pull this off.

If you'd read what I posted in the two giant walls, Elieson, you would've seen a lynch chart near the bottom of the second wall, and sentiments to lynch BBM within the N1 wall. If I didn't mention someone as a lynch target, then I'm not interested in lynching them right now. I'm still irritated with the persuasion, though (I like talking through my vote).

Also, dear courier: I'm quite frustrated with how little I had to work with D1, because the most active people consisted of Rein and kirsche-who-wasn't-always-coherent. My previous incarnation didn't leave much in the way of interaction, and I'd like to fix that. The fastest way to do that, IMO, is through myself.

Will not object = will not commit. Times Two.
Bleghs it up over BBM but this was the second time she mentioned her disdain of it.

If I'd known that would not object to lynching X = this person is most likely to be scum fmpov and since i can't vote I am working extra hard to convince you all to vote for X, then there wouldn't have been a problem and I wouldn't have called out anything.

I'm not quoting this. However, I already said something about that.



If your case is on semantics only, then I'm going to assume that your read on me is weak. This was also Prims' first post of N2 - it contains his logic. Unless something drastic happened afterwards, I wouldn't expect another wall from him. I don't have a problem with his 1-2 line posting at night, because his first post already explains what he's thinking.

Rein, go and ISO me. NOW. It's the weekend, so I can be a bit more active. . .wait, my ISO isn't in the first post. Here.

At the end of D2, I said that I didn't care which one of Shinori/Blitz was lynched at the end of the day. Seeing as Blitz is gone, and Shinori suddenly has a new scum read in Rein right after Rein posted a vote on him. . .

##Vote: Shinori

Where are you pulling your reads from, and why?

You didn't care. That's the problem. You took your position of being persuaded to a level of not giving a shit about trying to convince town that your scumreads were legit. You sat on them, and then after a while, complained about your previous Alter-Ego and called out things that drove your opinions of certain players to a resounding "maybe". This, I have a problem with, and this, I find incredibly scummy.

Hooray for getting bombarded with a lot of not-mafia stuff. ;/

Courier message (sent about forty minutes ago, received not too long before this post), in a nutshell:

- Verbal abuse towards Shinori (as a mod, I can't repeat that; also, don't break the SF flaming rules when it's your turn to post, or I'll have to hand out warns. For a mafia game. Which I really don't want to do.)
- Shinori isn't clear from his reaction, because it looks like he isn't reading the game
- It was Rein's vote that got Blitz lynched; thus, the wagon on Rein is bad. Had Rein voted for Shinori instead, Blitz wouldn't have been lynched?

Uh, courier, can you explain that last part? I get the feeling that I'm not doing it justice, and I can't quote you. I'll post my own analysis below.

From what I see, had Rein voted for Shinori during D2, he would've been lynched instead of Blitz. I feel that both are scum, which is why I didn't care which of the two was lynched on D2. Likewise, the only people that would've known Blitz's alignment are his buddies. Thus, I don't see Rein's Blitz vote as anything definite (as this assumption implicitly implies that Shinori is town, IMO). Rein's actions in-thread are a bigger point in his favor, as he's active (which I'm not quite accustomed to, but I am so very happy to see), I don't have a huge problem with his logic, and the case against him is poorly explained, at best.

There was little interaction directed towards Blitz and BBM, but the noncommital issues all around lead me to believe that eclipse was buying time until the persuasion would wear off before posting more solid reads and throwing down a vote. Only, all she did was park on Shinori, when there were legit cases elsewhere (and he got lynched by a swing vote, which she could've swung elsewhere had a different case been pushed). Problem is, that at this point, eclipse displayed a sliiiiight scumread on Kay, but just said "i'm keeping on Shinori"

In the end, I'm looking at eclipse as scum due to primarily:

• Noncommittal issues regarding scumreads
• Blitz's posts wrt eclipse (and to a lesser extent, Ether)
• Eclipse's calling BBM suspicious but never ever ever ever pressing him for anything

and if I could vote, it'd go right on her.

[Elieson]

dammit hit Post instead of Post Preview.

Anyway i was pretty much done. I was supposed to end with

...

and if I could vote, it'd go right on her. Then either Cowbell or possibly Kay (still running ISO crossreferencing).

[Prims]

cool i still think we should lynch rein because hes mafia

[Prims]

kevin's obvtown, blitz wagon wouldn't have even started without him

blitz calling eclipse town doesn't mean much because scum can defend a townie and a scum at the same time and we only have one non-blitz scumflip to compare it with anyway

cowbell is town. weapons, the guy who scum killed n1, already explained this, and even if you don't buy his logic, it'd be weird for cowbell to want the player that considers him clear dead n1

seriously guys just lynch rein for gg

[Elieson]

kevin's obvtown, blitz wagon wouldn't have even started without him

blitz calling eclipse town doesn't mean much because scum can defend a townie and a scum at the same time and we only have one non-blitz scumflip to compare it with anyway

cowbell is town. weapons, the guy who scum killed n1, already explained this, and even if you don't buy his logic, it'd be weird for cowbell to want the player that considers him clear dead n1

seriously guys just lynch rein for gg

I didn't even check kirsche's ISO yet, but yea he did start the Blitz train, and that's some serious bussage if it's all a ruse.

WRT Blitz, we have 1 scumflip and 3 not-scum flips.

Cowbells, eh I can see that.

I'll check rein.ISO in the A.M. Gotta be up for work in 4 hours.

[Prims]

the 3 not-scum flips don't mean anything because there are more townies for blitz to talk about than scumbuddies for him to talk about

[Strawman]

I hate that I have crappy reads on all of you night players and that Prims is making me doubt all my reads on day players.

At first I agreed with the persuading idea.

But I need to go read some stuff, and think about some things, because as I thought more about it I didn't like it so much.

Also, sorry about my crappy activity. School has been getting really busy.

[Strawman]

Ok ok.

Would lynch Kay or Prims from night and Rein or Eclipse from day.

Basically I'm having to rethink my strongest town reads(Prims and Rein).

I still don't feel great about Elie either because of weird mechanic related thoughts that I'm having, but it kinda falls under finding an aspect of his role suspicious. Or a possible use of it I guess, if a certain other assumption that popped into my head were true.

Persuade Eclipse to either yourself, Eli, or to Prims I think. I know those both sound crazy, but its because I'm having tons of indecisive thoughts and I think that would help me.

[Elieson]

Late double at work, but I got a few.

I checked, I can make someone vote for me (so I may as well do that?)

Prims, Kay, would you rather me just persuade someone to myself?

[Elieson]

the 3 not-scum flips don't mean anything because there are more townies for blitz to talk about than scumbuddies for him to talk about

You really think Blitz pushing cases on [now flipped] town, while defending a [now flipped] scum means nothing? FMPOV I see that as blitz trying to push lynches on non-buddies, and I'm surprised you don't acknowledge that as a possibility

[Sunwoo]

Phase end. No posting.

[Sunwoo]

kirsche has died! He was:

Dear kirsche,

You are Elieson, a day vanilla.

You have no special abilities aside from your vote and your word.

You win when all threats to town are removed.

It is now D4. D4 ends on September 20 at 12:50 AM PST. The following players may post during this phase:

eclipse
Cowbell
Rein

[eclipse]

You get a content post when I'm not off to bed (I blame the phase end times).

[Cowbell]

##Vote: Captain America

Ball is in your court, Eclipse.

[Prims]

If the game doesn't end RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW I'm going to need a sub.

[charlie_]

10/10 activity guys

Votals

(1) Rein: Cowbell

(2) Not Voting: eclipse, Rein

34 and a half hours left.

[Grace]

You hear a voice from somewhere...

Cowbell explain your case on Rein please. I've been asking this from you for days. I know I'm not the only one who's curious as to what's going on in your head.

Rein Responded to you in #433 and you haven't responded to that yet. Also, you said Kay is a good lynch in #439, but never said why. Also I ended up idling my persuasion because I'm not comfortable enough with any of the survivors to have potential vote control if day!town was shot (was planning on persuading someone to me, but didn't wanna waste obvitown!kirsche's vote, and the rest weren't worthy enough for my mighty persuasion.

Elieson, OUT

Maybe you're just imagining things. Oh well. Life goes on, as they say.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Manix

[riariadne]

Hey calling out people for inactivity when I'm not there is my thing. I guess there aren't many people, I was away, eclipse is in Hawaii, and Cowbell never explains anything!

this is at Prims's first post of the night. I'm actually really glad to have a concrete case on me so I can argue with something actually there instead of dealing with Cowbell's horseshit.

1. I wasn't convinced of Blitz being scummier than Shinori at this point, but I thought 2 votes was perfectly enough to get him talking. A third vote would not really serve much of a purpose. I even said this in my post where I voted Blitz.

2 and paragraph below. Why the hell would I make the Blitz case in the first place as scum? I could have easily gone along with Shinori for the day and not lynched a scumbuddy as mafia. The part below where you say I could have panicked and bussed doesn't make sense because I could have... not bussed and been in a better position.

3. I don't really see how I am suddenly scummy for saying "would also lynch Cowbell tomorrow" because I think he's the next scummiest day player. That's like saying someone is scummy for having multiple scumreads, or like saying "also, if Rein flipped town then I'd bet on Elie being the single final scum who claimed an ability intended to add vote control to earn towncred over any of eclipse/Cowbell/kirsche being scum, for whatever that's worth." is scummy... oh wait, you said that. Also just because Weapons flipped town N1 doesn't mean he's always right, so that point is bullshit.

so yeah. ##Vote: Cowbell and all that.

also kay is probably mafia but we can't afford to lynch her without losing lynch control. Maybe Elieson could persuade tomorrow? But we could possibly lose because of priority or something, which would be lame.

[eclipse]

This game has no method of ending the day phase early.

Elieson's case on me seems to be a combination of semantics (sentence after the quote has my take on such it) and hindsight. I haven't been pushing night players because it would be an exchange a phase, with information interspersed in the middle, which isn't efficient. Speaking of night players, are there enough subs for Prims and Strawman?

Rein, can you explain this?

also kay is probably mafia but we can't afford to lynch her without losing lynch control. Maybe Elieson could persuade tomorrow? But we could possibly lose because of priority or something, which would be lame.

I am having a hell of a time fighting the fog in my head (fuck you common cold). I'll see if it clears up later tonight.

[Cowbell]

##Vote: Captain America

Ball is in your court, Eclipse.

[riariadne]

The Kay thing was just musing. I don't think we should do it. We don't know if a persuade will go through before the kill and I'd rather not risk the game to find out. I do think she's maf though.

[charlie_]

12 hours

[Cowbell]

I just realized that there are no more day scum.

7 initial day, mislynch town d1 and vig+mafia shoot two town = 2 scum 2 town.

Administrators wouldn't have let that happen, ergo there are no scum in the day phase.

##Vote: Mafia Sucks

He has subtly being leading towards a day phase lynch this entire time.