Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[scorri]

Grassbridger (2): Eclipse, Bearclaw

Boron (1): Weapons

Refa (2): Scorri, Polydeuces

Weapons (2): Shinori, Elie

Manix SB (5): Paperblade, Kirsche, Bizz, Boron, Euklyd

Polydeuces (1): Refa

Bearclaw (2): Grassbridger, SB

Not Voting (3): Psych, Kay

Current votals. I'm ok with the SB lynch I guess? There could be multiples of roles, but the slot hasn't exactly done anything to convince me that they're town... so I guess

##Unvote

##Vote:SB

That makes six on SB, so no one else should vote him.

[Percivalé]

Mafia please do not kill me until I get to drink with Kevin at least once ok ):

[Psych]

Literally the past 10 pages are walls of texts and semantics arguements and I hate all of you

like I don't like anyone

except Euklyd and SB

##Vote Bizz

Bizz has just been bothering me and she's been kind of all over the place and I'm questioning some things she's done. I didn't like Manix, but I'm liking SB for some reason.

I also have a 1 Shot Hook so I don't believe Bizz.

now if you'll excuse me, i want no part of these text walls so please just direct questions to me and i'll wait to defend myself from getting lynched

[Paperblade]

hooker mafia

[Paperblade]

Psych is that one shot Hook your only ability

[Psych]

Psych is that one shot Hook your only ability

that information is classified

[Psych]

hooker mafia

more like paper's mom mafia

[Percivalé]

psych votes me in every game I am really not very concerned with this tbh

also reminding that I have a 3-shot hook and it's my only ability fwiw

[Psych]

either you're lying or i'm lying, as I feel secure in assuming SB is a full Hooker and we'd have one of those

I mean it makes more sense to have a full hooker and a 1-shot than a full hooker and a 3-shot

I guess 3+1 shot would work but that just seems messy

[Percivalé]

which means you're voting me mostly off of rolespec and I don't like that

[Paperblade]

Psych why would Bizz cc SB if she were scum?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

201-300

I'll believe all claims due to the nature of this game. The discussion about this starting here isn't important from retrospect.

Fuckin' hell, I just lost my post and I'm too tired and feeling like shit to retype it all up again aaaaaaaaaa

Weapons is a complete shitlord, but I don't think he's scum. Compared to Kirby mafia, where he was scum, he's actually going after me consistently and at least trying to explain his case on me. However, I like how he and Levity both ignored that last post I made after his "case" on me. Whether you believe my reasons for being lackluster or not is one thing, but to completely ignore that it's there is another.

Grassbridger indirectly answered my question by saying, "hmm, this sounds familiar" and unvoting. Which tells me that he doesn't feel this line of reasoning finds scum.

I'm taking issues with Levity at the moment. I don't agree with her Shinori suspicion, and I'm even more put off by the fact that she was upset at Grassbridger for harping on her for her "wording choice" regarding Wallcrab earlier, and yet she says that Shinori's word choice regarding the Weapons vote pings her. Her entire suspicion on me is based on what Weapons said about me and she can see it after she read over my posts. Literally came out of nowhere. Says that she doesn't find Shinori "necessarily" scummy in #180. But, unless I'm misreading something, #183 sounds like she's saying she does find him scummy?

Also, I don't like her saying that Weapons is an "easy target to push" because it feels like she's dismissing cases on him as "easy votes". In Kirby mafia, Weapons was scum and there was at least one person who dismissed him as "typical Weapons" until his flip.

##Unvote

##Vote: Levity

Not game-related, but there is a chance that I may sub out during N1. I've been unwell for some time and if I don't feel better before the end of D1 I'll probably sub out.

That one post you were referring to doesn't retroactively justify the scumminess of the before post?

IIRC this post was angrier the first time I saw it.

@Boron: fwiw during Kirby, Weapons cited personal obligations as reasons for his bad reads, although we don't know if that's true or not.

@eclipse: I can kind of see that but that might just be how he is? I dunno I don't read shit outside of the mafia forum anymore.

I'm not sure what to think of Shinori's implications, and I'm doubly not sure about eclipse suddenly backing off. There's one role I have in mind that would apply (which I mostly remember because I claimed it), but I mean... BBM'd have to be an idiot to include that. I don't really want to speculate too much about this, but I'm not gonna bend over backwards for Shinori when I don't even know which role he is.

Refa's thing is probably just him being new, he suggested something a lot weirder in Kirby and was town there.

@Kay: It's an RVS vote, you build wagons in RVS to make people react. Do you have anything else to tell the class?

Haven't really noticed Paper yet, and maybe for that reason kind of scum, but idk.

##Unvote
##Vote: Refa

imo he looks worse than grassbridget now, for reasons stated above. i might backread refa too when i get time

Disagree with the reasoning, but not finding it that scummy though it seems easy.

Oh right, I recall that now. Well, at the moment I don't find Weapons scummy, although if he really thinks I'm scum and wants me lynched then he needs to give a more serious case.

I mostly agree with Paperblade regarding Refa. In Kirby mafia he suggested that we try to lynch a townie on D1 because of the way role assignments worked in that game, which is a terrible idea, and he was town. I'm going to reread his exchange with eclipse and other stuff regarding the "lynch debate", but as of now I'm reading it as Refa misreading or misunderstanding stuff and not being familiar with game mechanics, not as a scum tell.

IIRC I at first felt like Sangyul was totally overreacting (one vote and one agree and no one else would care). I think I ended up deciding this was a town overreaction but idk.

blargh all these posts are just blurring together and I have no imput

I will say I think this eclipse/shinori thing is stupid, as eclipse is usually very careful about her vote and what she does with it as well as very independent with her opinions

i think i meant to use a different word than independent but w/e

I also think shinori is just mad he didn't get his way and that eclipse didn't co-operate with him

also if someone was talking about lynching day one in re: eclipse's attitudes, I want a D1 lynch too, but I'm abstaining from voting as i don't see any worthwhile wagons and I usually don't want to vote someone unless they're bugging me or we need to lynch

also wtf guys, 3 new replies as I'm typing this?

This and Psych's general posting pattern is scummy. It goes back to trying to look town by commenting on stuff, but not scumhunting.

Don't mention any modifications BBM made btw

There's gotta something; that role straight is bastard modding.

K Paper could be town.

People I remember off the top of my head:

eclipse

Viata

Paperblade

Sangyul

Lonely Wallcrab (has disappeared at this point)

Kay (made a post once)

Psych

Manix

...

Shinori

Bizz is town. Also IIRC Boron sounded angrier here too. Also side note: defending is overrated.

Boron is angrier here too. That makes her seem more town?

explain your vibes on being in love with manix

ugh i'm too lazy to look up shinori's role

I think everyone needs to stop taking things out of context because i fee like tempers are getting high and I don't like people's tones

Yeah Psych sounds like he's trying to contribute too much more than he's actually contributing. I think town Psych cares less?

You don't get to say I'm "so worked up" until you've played in games with me where I have exploded.

Boron mad?

This has been a pretty null stretch tbh.

I got null on Manix. Maybe feel like he should have better reads and is taking the simpler interpretation as scum, but I feel like recent events are polluting the retro.

srs how does anyone read all this thread text

how are you reading this right now?

w/e. i think it's scummy and antitown at the same time. add on what i said about his iso and i'm fairly confident in it right now.

hell, @everyone: thoughts on refa?

Forgot about Refa

blah blah blah skipping ahead to 160; who cares about Manix's reasons for voting Refa, at least enough to make the thread unappealing to read

So atm my primary scumread is Refa... reasons are basically the same as Manix's... so yeah... despise the lameness of sheeping I'll take that for my vote

Unvote
Vote: Refa

The first interesting post in a while. That's risky. Everybody was all like "noooooo Manix noooooo" and you're like "yeeaaaaaahhhhhhh"

It was an example. I don't think anyone actually seriously voted for him.

Well if it was a gut read, there's not much I can go upon because I can't concur/disagree with it. If it's based on Manix's actions, then that's a different story.

Question: What happens if two groups have the same number of lynches, at six or above?

I don't like this argument, because as I understand it Shinori is advocating for 6 vote maximums. Yet before when I was talking about no lynching, he mentioned that was detrimental to town. But with a 6 vote maximum, it would be pretty easy for anyone to change or create a counter wagon quickly, which seems counterintuitive to his argument. Also, I'm just not seeing the benefits that a 6 vote maximum provide.

Fake Edit: OK, this was before he confirmed his role. Which is um...what exactly is it? Anyone?

Yeah, I believe Weapons style of playing is a null tell at best.

Really? I never found my tone aggressive but I digress. Also BBM really should prod Poly or something...

Also, scumreads;

Apparently Manix has been getting on my case for not having any real reads (true), but that seems like a flimsy case considering I can name a couple of other people who have the same problem. I'm not familiar with his meta though, and flimsy reasoning is not the exclusive domain of scum, so he's a null read atm.

Peoples' arguments on Grassbridger are based solely on the fact that he pays too much attention to word choice, which seems like over-analyzing it. For me, he's a null read.

I don't really like how Bizz switches stances a lot, but I feel it's more of a playstyle difference and there's nothing else about his posts that strikes me as scummy. Leaning town.

Shinori apparently has a super role which only helps for townies, so...closest thing we have to confirmed town?

WRT to Weapons, I don't like his argument against Boron, and he really hasn't made an effort to read anyone else. Leaning scum.

Bearclaw has been sheeping an awful lot this whole game, which is just what. Leaning scum.

I don't have a problem with any of Boron's arguments so far or get any scum vibe from her posts, so leaning town.

Also I don't really get why people find Eclipse suspicious, since to me it seems like she's putting the most effort into scumhunting, so leaning town there too.

First post in a while? Also interesting, that question is really out of place feels like trying to contribute. A lot of it is out of sync. Deferring Manix's arguments to apply to other people is scummy? Really the random surveyness of the post is weird. Grassbridger kind of disappeared, so that mention is weird. I'd also want to say Shinori and Refa are not buddies, but again, drastic moral victory. Scum always votes me at some point, so there's that. Yeah this post is surface contributing. TUNNELING. Going back to null.

Oh yeah no vote = new?

IMO Manix > Refa at this point

Dammit when I was looking over my arguments I noticed I missed something. Ugh. Stupid me.

Weapons still isn't making a lot of sense, but I can imagine Viata agreeing with earlier him now, so nevermind about that. I can always go back to that if I need to, or if someone requests I post it.

Top tier town right here

Also Weapons it's really hard to tell if you're being serious or not. And by hard to tell I mean often impossible.

nah

I think it's about the same, and the fact that you had to wait this long to make a case tells me that I shouldn't hold my breath.

So I haven't noticed eclipse in a while and I've decided deathtunneling her is the smart thing to do.

What makes me scum exactly?

BBM

But actually idk about Shinori

Related side note related to the other related side note: Why does responding to a defense matter so much to the attacker? Continuing that is like having the attacker trying to convince the defender that they're scum. Debates are bad (cause they suck to read).

More stuff I agree with from Bizz.

His playstyle is a nulltell, his reasons for voting Boron are not.

I was still deciding if I find weapons or bearclaw scummier. Surely being indecisive is not the sole characteristic of mafia, otherwise why don't you suspect all of the other people who haven't voted?

Looking back, Weapons' arguments have been bothering me more than bearclaw's sheeping, soooo...

##Vote:WeaponsOfMassConstruction

My apologies then. Feel free to ignore that argument, since it was all based around that fact.

I think you're leaning town. The reason I dance around a lot concerning my opinion of you is honestly, everyone keeps on mentioning this role that you have that I have no clue how it works. So it's less that I think that you're scum and more that I don't get why you're confirmed town.

In light of the side note: uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

My reasons for voting Boron are not scummy. Your reasons for voting me are scummy. Namely you got called out and were shifty.

Also I do think what Levity said about eclipse has some merit btw.

Also why isn't eclipse capitalized?

Weapons is full of BS and I assumed that his 15/2 joke wasn't actually accusing me or Shinori of anything. I'll continue to assume that until he's helpful at all.

Eclipse's response to Bizz's forthcoming case on her is troubling to me. Townies should focus on scumhunting, and if they have to defend themselves, that's regrettable because it means someone is going after the wrong person. Eclipse being intrigued by having to defend herself? Doesn't seem to come from a pro-town mindset. I find it scummy, along with a general pattern of an odd tone in her interaction with Bizz.

##Vote: Eclipse

Refa: Shinori's role is (apparently) that he gets info on the number of scum on each day's lynch wagon. It's a protown role but I think it'd be a stretch to call him confirmed town.

pedit: cut by Bizz, I agree with most of that stuff on Eclipse

Suddenly, Grassbridger. Grassbridger and Shinori not buddies drastic moral victory. Really I think these all point to Shinori is prob town. Which could be another drastic moral victory but I'll give it to them. Ok, there is arbitrarily stuff on eclipse but not other stuff so idk.

Okay yeah IIRC I decided Boron wasn't scum because she got kinda upset. So town overreaction.

I think cruising Shinori is scum Shinori?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Yeah well deal with it Psych.

[Psych]

because she's scum duh obviously

I'm JoAT and I can prove other parts of my role, so there's that

but there'd be no reason for SB to out that he's hooker since at the time he only had 4 votes on him

like he had reason but not a huge one since he needed 2 votes to even be lynched at the end of the phase

like this just doesn't seem positive for bizz since i don't know where my train of thought is going but if she knows she's got a use limit then why would having a full hooker be something to cc

slash i cc'd bizz's cc

i don't even know any more man

This and Psych's general posting pattern is scummy. It goes back to trying to look town by commenting on stuff, but not scumhunting.

Bizz is town. Also IIRC Boron sounded angrier here too. Also side note: defending is overrated.

Yeah Psych sounds like he's trying to contribute too much more than he's actually contributing. I think town Psych cares less?

that's normally how i post?

Why are you so confident in that?

hah all psychs spill their roles especially town psych when he can prove it

[Percivalé]

except SB said he didn't know the specifics to his role and if there's a town 3-shot hooker and also a JOAT that makes sense to me tbh

[Percivalé]

also I'm an idiot and jumped to the cc because my role says town hooker and he claimed town hooker so w/e. w/e

[Da Bear]

Actually, the more I think about it the less I like lynching SB beca of cc.

If it can be called cc, idk SB is the only claimed unlimited Hoooker (?).

[Percivalé]

but why would town have an unlimited hooker and a 3-shot what the fuck.

also SB still hasn't actually given us the specifics of his role

[Paperblade]

3 shot hooker might as well be unlimited, it's pretty much 99% that one of them is scum

[Da Bear]

Phone posting before I'm ready 10/10

[Percivalé]

if SB flips town please just vig me I don't like being mislynched <___,<

[Da Bear]

Then not telling me about new posts.

also SB still hasn't actually given us the specifics of his role

That won't be happening until BBM returneth I believe.

[Psych]

ugh now i'm thinking bizz isn't mafia but i still don't think sb is either i just don't like this lynch

[Percivalé]

who would you rather lynch then

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

301-400

I HAVE THE BIGGEST WALLS

So I tried reading Bizz vs eclipse. (So you tried reading my walls.)

eclipse could be town. Actually eclipse is just posting a lot of alignment independent stuff?

Grassbridger's posting pattern is kinda scummy. Like, the pattern where you stick around when people are talking about you and then disappear when they aren't and show up sometimes to renew your town token.

TUNNELING

Refa maybe too.

What is everyone's thoughts on a Day 1 Massclaim combined with Shinori's role to break the game?

Let's do it.

Maybe sortof sounds like scum not wanting to fight the tidal wive, but idk could be tunneling.

can I throw a few things out there before we get too ingrained in the massclaim idea

1) his claimed role, while strong as fuck, can easily be faked as scum (funny that) and can "clear" scum with the right result fake.
2) i see a number of people assuming shinori is town from role alone. why? (if you want my opinion, i'm nullreading him rn because role =/= alignment)
3) I'd argue that the people that seem to be all too sure of shinori being town are more likely scum. paper/eclipse/refa/and whoever else i've missed, 11pm posting too stronk
4) massclaiming outs protective roles anyway (prime kill/hook targets), which puts our investigative roles at risk. also consider chances are (I would damn hope) that massclaim won't break the game.

that be me take on this fishy massclaim business, mateys.

This imo is a more reasonable town reaction.

It's only Dat 1 and we're already jumping right to massclaims? Hoo boy.

I'll post a lynch vote when I've read through the last little bit.

Polydeuces lives! That level of disappearance could go either way.

I agree with Manix, massclaiming seems like a really bad idea for outing protective roles and probably not going to help to much. Paper, why did you suggest that?

Actually, on reread, Paper has exactly one sentence about his reads, where he votes Wallcrab and says why. He's said a lot of stuff about Shinori's role. That, coupled with a weird suggestion and a reread of the Eclipse-Viata snit at a non-4-am time that makes me less confident of my Eclipse vote, leads to
##Unvote
##Vote: Paperblade

Grass could be town for changing the eclipse read. Grass could be scum for changing votes so easily.

@Manix: See, that's the thing about Shinori's role: You actually can't fake it. It only looks like you can because of its artificial similarity to a cop, which is really easy to fake. The role PoEs scum surprisingly quick. That's why I got vigged in Mitnala, something like two days of results was enough to prove my results were phony even though I was bussing everyone but myself. And then, if Shinori's scum and there are scum he doesn't know about, it just becomes 10x harder.

I'm kind of put off by your attitude, you're not giving any reason Shinori is scum, just "h-he might be guys"

##Unvote, ##Vote: Manix

@Bizz: I'm kind of extremely busy and on the verge of subbing out, so w/e

Also if we do do this I will claim first.

Manix's reaction was reasonable, so Paper could be scum.

kirsche sounds town, but I'm going to chalk that up to how sub ins inherently sound town.

scorri, why do you so much text

Same thing as kirsche, really. Except scorri didn't sub in, so town?

scorri why did you give a read on like four people only to go "Well this could be scummy but it could also not" for each of them

Town Paper?

Anyway, Manix makes solid points with regards to doubting the mass claim. Would not vote based on this.

Euklyd is alright.

Euklyd is prob town.

Honestly, I'd say Manix was town if there wasn't a wagon built up on him, but what is life.

kirsche, why have you as of then only focused on eclipse and Manix? (I think; or any additional persons provided there are not too many)

@WoMC: is that a serious claim?

Seriously?

kirsche is prob not scum if Manix flips town.

Still don't agree with like anything Elieson ever reasons. He doesn't really sound scummy though.