Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[Percivalé]

Hmmm, I really don't know how to word this better?? I'm trying to keep this all in the context of the game. Scum have used emotional shit against me before to keep me from making cases against them. I just wanted confirmation that that was NOT what she was trying to do, because I am very worried that it might have happened again. I don't know how Eclipse normally plays recently because I haven't played with her in a while aside from SFMM3 and she did not do ANYTHING in that game like what she did in this one. I'm really not trying to sound guilt trippy or trying to make anyone mad, I wish people wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

[Sunwoo]

Honestly Levity, if you have a case on eclipse then you should just say it and not worry about emotional stuff. Perhaps this isn't any of my business, but there are times when you worry too much about people emotionally affecting you in games, but you don't seem to think ahead to realize how you might affect people in turn with your requests all the time. Remember why I wasn't very happy with you earlier in the game? There are times when it seems (and I am not saying you do this on purpose) like you expect people to treat you in a certain manner when playing the game, but you do things that tick people off in turn. I may be the worst person to say this, but people don't really like being told that how they play is making attacks on someone else, and being told to "tone down" what they are doing.

[Sunwoo]

I don't think you're purposely trying to guilt trip anyone, but you make it so evident when people are messing you up emotionally in a game and state that it is messing you up. Intentionally or not, that can guilt trip people into interacting with you differently than they would otherwise.

[BBM]

Votals

Paperblade (3): Scorri, Elieson, Polydeuces

Polydeuces (2): Paperblade, Refa

Refa (4): Eclipse, Bizz, Psych, Weapons

Not Voting (4): Kay, Euklyd, Boron, Grassbridger

With 13 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch at deadline and 7 votes to hammer. Phase ends on September 29th at 9PM EDT (September 30th at 1AM GMT). You have slightly over 24 hours remaining.

[Percivalé]

I know what you mean and I'm sorry about that, none of this was really my intention at all, I just have these impulse reactions that I have a hard time controlling whenever something triggers me emotionally. But I don't want to dwell on this, it's a distraction to the game. I'd rather not push the eclipse case yet until she's back and feeling better though, sorry.

[Percivalé]

To answer her question, though, I wouldn't really call it "following" you, I was probably going to vote Refa at some point because Poly vote was going nowhere and I'm going by PoE at this point by people who have not done anything convincingly town. I know that's really lazy for town to do but I don't know what else to do yet.

Sorry, by the way, I didn't mean to make you angry and I'll watch myself next time.

[eclipse]

I think I was being less-than-pleasant during SFMM3, but it was directed elsewhere (read what happened after Excellen was shot). If you want to see me super-irritated in another game, go read Shining Force 2.

Also, why do you think I'd do that as an intentional scum tactic? I have more pride in my play than that!

Lastly, Preview button. Read it to yourself, and ask if you'd get angry if someone says that to you. If the answer is yes, don't post it! When I'm doing something that's more than two sentences, I'll use it to make sure that I'm expressing what I mean to, as well as tone down any emotional flare-ups. If impulse is that bad, then maybe make the post, do something else for a few minutes, come back, and see if your sentiments have changed (they probably will, if it's pure emotion speaking).

Now, if you have a case against me, then bring it! Part of the game is lynch cases, and for me to shirk from them would be bad play!

[MRDRHAWK]

This lynch should be obvious

I'm inactive, Refa's not

Case closed

[Sunwoo]

This lynch should be obvious

I'm inactive, Refa's not

Case closed

Do you actually have anything else to say

[MRDRHAWK]

Do you actually have anything else to say

Not really. I can't really do anything else aside from try and throw out cases, and I'm not exactly building up cases for or against people right now.

Honestly, though, I'm not getting the sudden mass scumread on Refa.

[Sunwoo]

Not really. I can't really do anything else aside from try and throw out cases, and I'm not exactly building up cases for or against people right now.

Honestly, though, I'm not getting the sudden mass scumread on Refa.

Well, who do you dislike the most? Who do you feel the worst about? And if you're not getting the "sudden mass scumread on Refa", do you think any of the people voting him are scum?

[MRDRHAWK]

I'm not getting any 100% scumreads per se, but I'm still suspicious of Viata, albeit less so. Paperblade seems the scummiest to me right now due to how he reacted when people started voting him, with Weapons right behind because he's seemed scummy as all hell since the game began.

There could be a scum push to get Refa mislynched, although I'm not buying anybody in that whole thing as scum, Refa or the voters. I'm leaning full town for Eclipse, Grassbridger, Elie, Refa and Boron right now, with everyone else either somewhere in the middle or outright scum (Weapons/Paperblade).

Again, I still say somebody's an indy trying to screw with somebody specific; I'm not too sure who it is (maybe Euk?), but I'm feeling like there's an indy masquerading as scum.

We also have to consider the possibility of a recruiter somewhere in this game; we may not think somebody's scum now, but maybe they are. Eclipse seems likely to be recruited since she's most aggressively going after scum, but I don't think that's happened just yet.

[Refa]

When you asked "If scum were powerwagoning scorri and Boron was scum why wouldn't she do it too?" and "If Boron was scum and bussing SB for towncred, why wouldn't other scum do it too?"

OK, I get where you're coming from. However, my point was that trying to lynch scorri (if SB flipped scum) would look bad the following day, as evident by the people stating there was at least one scum on scorri's wagon (I personally don't agree with this logic, more on that below). So if scum!Boron thought to bus SB for town cred, I can't understand why the other scum would be trying to pull a counterwagon (especially if scum!Boron told her scum buddies to bus SB) instead of following suit. The only reason I can see is that they had a disagreement about things/lack of communication.

I mean, the logic is consistent, but there is NO REASON for you to have these priorities, like "making the lynch happen sooner" or "at a particular time of day" or "if certain people had voted" (well actually that last one could be OK due to associative reads on flip but still)

I felt like we had all of the information we needed on the table. My reasoning was that there was a very good chance that either Euklyd or Weapons would flip scum. I will concede that I was overly impatient on this matter.

Of course those are the 3 scenarios, my point is that using the phrase "very real possibility" makes it sound like a higher probability than it is. Of course the possibility is real, it's just unlikely. I wasn't saying this was dumb, I was saying it was "bad". Bad can mean either dumb or scummy; this one was scummy. AND YES I KNOW THIS IS WORD CHOICE BIZZ BUT I NOTICE THESE THINGS

Why is it unlikely?

Nobody said EVERYONE on the wagon was scum, so saying "hey look there's a townie on the wagon" proves nothing. And, since that townie was killed by mafia, it wasn't even saying "hey look this randomly chosen person on the wagon is town" which would have been at least slightly better. No, mafia could have killed anyone on the wagon but they weren't going to kill another scum so your logic DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING or even support your point.

First point- How can you be so sure that Shinori was killed by Mafia?

Secondly, my point has nothing to do with the fact that Shinori was killed. Why are you misrepping my argument? My point is scumtelling based on voting for scorri alone is inherently flawed, as a townie as been shown to execute the same behavior. I am not arguing that there were no scums on her wagon (statistically speaking, there's a fairly good chance that there is), but that reasoning strikes me as really bad.

And that bit about people voting for SB: Powerwagons on people who flip town are scummy because it's lynching them without really giving them a chance to respond or anyone else the chance to comment. Powerwagons on people who don't flip (like scorri) are somewhat scummy by the same reasoning, but it's much less clear. And powerwagons on people who flip scum aren't scummy--the same reasoning applies as in the first two cases, but it's more than canceled out by the fact that they lynched scum.

This reasoning is bad, scum has every reason to bus their teammates who are likely to get lynched anyways for some easy town cred.

Also, there's a difference between votes at the very end of a phase to push someone over the edge, and a sudden rush of votes. It wasn't the fact that scorri's wagon happened right at the end, it was that it happened quickly.

You could argue the same for SB's case. The only difference was that SB flipped scum, but I don't like your argument that powerwagons aren't scummy only because the person flipped scum instead of town. Look at this logically. Scum are the only ones who know who is or is not scum. Therefore, they'd be the only ones who knew for certain the alignment of the person they were voting for, disregarding 3rd parties. And I believe I've stated above the benefits of voting for fellow scum buddies when they're liable to get lynched anyways. On the other hand, townies would have no idea of the alignment who they are voting for, therefore there is a very real possibility that they'd have voted for someone who didn't flip scum. How can you consider that sort of behavior scummy?

If yesterday she was a scum read and today she was a null read, what changed?

Simple; her arguments early on were lacking and indecisive. I felt that sort of behavior was scummy. However, the quality of her posts stepped up later on, and in addition I'm not really seeing any scum intent in her latest posts. The reasons why I put her as a null read instead of pro town I believe I have already discussed at length.

This lynch should be obvious

I'm inactive, Refa's not

Case closed

Ugh, noone's voting you purely based on inactivity; otherwise I would have voted for Kay, who has way less activity than you. My point is that you've been sheeping arguments and haven't really helped scumhunt much at all. Being apathetic doesn't really help! I get that you feel that you missed a lot, but you can still help to scumhunt, provide reads, etc. even if you weren't around for a large portion of the game.

Also, scum can be active, so saying the lynch should be obvious based on the fact that I am is just :\ (especially considering that in Kirby Mafia, I was inactive for a long period of time and flipped town in the end).

[eclipse]

To prevent a massive headache, I'm just going to step in here:

First point- How can you be so sure that Shinori was killed by Mafia?

The three kills were Shinori, Wallcrab, and kirsche. Psych has claimed responsibility for the kirsche kill. This means that either the mafia night kill was Shinori or Wallcrab. Now, either the scumteam's kill was redirected, or the mafia intentionally shot Wallcrab. . .the former is an insanely long shot, and the latter is out of the question (that's called game-throwing). Thus, the only person left for the mafia to kill would be Shinori.

[MRDRHAWK]

You're also assuming that scum knew Wallcrab's alignment before they killed him, Eclipse. I doubt that scum would have a tracker working with a killer; hell, I doubt they've got any roles that can communicate with each other period.

[Refa]

You're also assuming that scum knew Wallcrab's alignment before they killed him, Eclipse. I doubt that scum would have a tracker working with a killer; hell, I doubt they've got any roles that can communicate with each other period.

Um...scum all know each other's alignements...

[Sunwoo]

Wait, Polydeuces, what the fuck are you saying

Mafia are able to communicate with one another. That's how they work.

[MRDRHAWK]

Um...scum all know each other's alignements...

And how, pray tell, are you privy to this info, hmm?

And I've been scum before and yet have had no communications outside of the thread allowed.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Polydeuces

[Sunwoo]

And how, pray tell, are you privy to this info, hmm?

Because that's how it's always worked?

[Refa]

...You're not allowed to edit your posts. I can confirm that he didn't actually remove anything, but jeez man.

[Sunwoo]

... I can't tell if Polydeuces just really doesn't get this concept (as far as I can tell, anti-town factions always know everyone in their alignment on SF) or if he's playing dumb noob!town very poorly.

[MRDRHAWK]

To be fair, this is my first SF Mafia, and obviously you guys run things a lot differently than the other places I've been in mafias before. On other boards, very rarely do scum have communications with all other scum members; they're usually more likely to be with other scumbuddies, but I've never seen a scum player who can communicate with all other scum-aligned players.

[Refa]

... I can't tell if Polydeuces just really doesn't get this concept (as far as I can tell, anti-town factions always know everyone in their alignment on SF) or if he's playing dumb noob!town very poorly.

I don't get what benefits he'd get from acting ignorant of things of how things work on SF, so I'm more inclined to believe he really doesn't know these things.

[MRDRHAWK]

I don't get what benefits he'd get from acting ignorant of things of how things work on SF, so I'm more inclined to believe he really doesn't know these things.

I just explained above; I'm basing what I figure through past experience. Unfortunately, I have no past experience in an SF mafia.

[Refa]

Yeah, I made that post before I read yours.