Fakeclaim Mafia - Game Over

[Bluedoom]

yes it does,a nd that means people are fakeclaiming. Nothing more we can do but try to shoot out the worst of the lot.

[euklyd]

Hey Weapons, if you decide to dayvig me, would you mind giving me advance warning so that I can post the things that I'd *rather* wait on but can't if I'm dead?

Anyways, any idea who redirected Refa from me to Elieson? Because that person should go belly-up by the end of tomorrow, unless there are redirectors that redirect actions performed by a specific player, rather than targeting a specific player (are there such?).

If you lynch/dayvig me you can confirm my role, which would tell you that much, at least.

@Elieson - Yes, absolutely. For multiple reasons - if Refa's not lying (and I'm leaning towards believing him) then there's a really weird redirect power going on. (Or there's a sloppy scum, unless they think they can win before the end of tomorrow.)

As a side note: BBM, if someone dies during the day, will that change the votes required to lynch/hammer?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Right now, I'm most considering Refa/Euklyd/Elieson, with Boron as wildcard. They're all scummy (besides Elieson) in their own little ways. Euklyd coasts until he gets called out and I feel posts more to avoid looking scummy than to actually contribute. Refa I have been really flip-flopping on as he sounds scummy, but general activity level and relations with dead scum are better. Boron is acting hissy in various parts, which really just annoys me and gives the sneaking feeling she's doing it on purpose.

Right now, I'd said Euklyd > Elieson > Refa > Boron

##Vote: Elieson

Also, who do people think is scum?

[BBM]

As a side note: BBM, if someone dies during the day, will that change the votes required to lynch/hammer?

Yes.

[BBM]

Votals

Weapons (3): Boron, Marth, Refa

Euklyd (1): Psych

Elieson (1): Weapons

Not Voting (3): Elieson, Scorri, Euklyd

With 8 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch at deadline and 5 to hammer. Phase ends on October 7th at 9PM EDT (October 8th 1AM GMT). You have slightly over 33 hours left in the phase.

[Elieson]

End-Day Vote Analysis:

Day1

Grassbridger (1): Bearclaw

SB (7): Boron, Euklyd, Kirsche, Scorri, Weapons, Grassbridger, Elieson

Scorri (6): Eclipse, Refa, Bizz, Paperblade, Psych, Shinori

Euklyd (1): SB

Day2

Paperblade (3): Scorri, Elieson, Polydeuces

Polydeuces (5): Refa, Grassbridger, Boron, Eclipse, Bizz

Refa (3): Psych, Weapons, Paperblade

Day3

Paperblade (6): Elieson, Eclipse, Scorri, Euklyd, Psych, Refa

Refa (3): Weapons, Paperblade, Marth

Weapons (1): Boron

I think I'm gonna

##Vote Sangyul

D2 Poly wagonneer and D3 Weapons vote that has carried into D4 without so much as a change of opinion, regardless of his Day Vig claim well into this day. She's tunnelled pretty hard on him for isn't something I agree with. She's maintained a vote on him because of his gameplay being more annoying than anything else, and her case on Weapons, which I'm assuming is still a priority, just isn't making sense.

Not sure how popular my opinion is here, but I am starting to not like Weapons. D1 was basically a lot of screwing around with a reread and some opinions at the end of the phase, but not very much of them were in-depth or explained. D2 had him fake a guilty on Euklyd and that was the majority of his content on D2. Scum can fake reaction tests as well, remember Rein in C9++? Wasn't it like a day or two before he retracted the claim as well? Not a whole lot from what I'm seeing on D3 either, a vote for Refa that was switched to a vote for Elieson over win-con, and still no real explanations.

I dunno, I'm just not really liking what he's (not) doing right now.

If scum can fake reaction tests, then his reaction test is a null tell.

You actually seem to have agreed with his reaction test here, so voting him for pulling a bullshit reaction test when you found it useful yourself seems pretty hypocritical. Here, too.

Not really, because his vote on me occurred during a point in which he was solidly interpretting his wincon. There's not scum intent in that (compared to the way paperblade jumped on me during D2). He may have not explained it that much more, but even though I was being voted, I understand his sentiment.

The weirdest part of her Weapons vote was that she unvoted Obviscum!Paperblade to do it, and she never provided any solid reason as to why she didn't think Paperblade was scum. It looks like she was just trying to get off of a buddy's wagon (when her Paperblade posts include like one post where she calls him not that bad, and other various posts disliking him).

[Sunwoo]

D2 Poly wagonneer and D3 Weapons vote that has carried into D4 without so much as a change of opinion, regardless of his Day Vig claim well into this day. She's tunnelled pretty hard on him for isn't something I agree with. She's maintained a vote on him because of his gameplay being more annoying than anything else, and her case on Weapons, which I'm assuming is still a priority, just isn't making sense.

If scum can fake reaction tests, then his reaction test is a null tell.

You actually seem to have agreed with his reaction test here, so voting him for pulling a bullshit reaction test when you found it useful yourself seems pretty hypocritical. Here, too.

Not really, because his vote on me occurred during a point in which he was solidly interpretting his wincon. There's not scum intent in that (compared to the way paperblade jumped on me during D2). He may have not explained it that much more, but even though I was being voted, I understand his sentiment.

The weirdest part of her Weapons vote was that she unvoted Obviscum!Paperblade to do it, and she never provided any solid reason as to why she didn't think Paperblade was scum. It looks like she was just trying to get off of a buddy's wagon (when her Paperblade posts include like one post where she calls him not that bad, and other various posts disliking him).

I like how you didn't even mention my D1 vote on Manix/SB, even when quite a few people (including confirmed town Levity) switched their votes onto scorri after SB subbed in. Give me a reason why scum!me would bus Manix/SB but not Paperblade.

As for unvoting Paperblade, Elieson, please note that I unvoted Paperblade to vote Polydeuces in D2. I felt that Paperblade's frustration in D2 was real and his interactions with Manix at least seemed genuine enough, and turns out I was wrong. People make mistakes. I didn't vote AT ALL in D3 until I placed a vote on Weapons. And if you look back at the votals at the time I voted Weapons, Paperblade was already at deadline lynch and Refa was one vote away from deadline lynch. Paperblade would have gotten lynched with or without my vote.

Also, regarding when I "agreed" with his reaction test in D2, funny that you linked the posts where I was under the impression that his "results" were genuine. Therefore, NOT a bullshit reaction test.

Being a dayvig doesn't automatically exclude one from being scum, and I think you of all people should know that. I'm not voting him because his gameplay is "annoying". I'm voting him because I can't see how he's being beneficial to town, and the vibe I got from his behavior was "scum trolling town".

If Weapons wants to dayvig someone before the end of this phase, I'll happily volunteer if the rest of town can promise me that my flip will actually help them find scum and clear up whatever is going on. Either way, I'm not lynching Marth or Psych, and I'd be fine with lynching you, Elieson, since you're confirmed not-town with an SK around.

[Elieson]

Ugh i lost a massive post.

I like how you didn't even mention my D1 vote on Manix/SB, even when quite a few people (including confirmed town Levity) switched their votes onto scorri after SB subbed in. Give me a reason why scum!me would bus Manix/SB but not Paperblade.

Of course I didn't mention it. No matter what I accuse you of, you'll either say "I was confused by the claim discrepencies" or "I found him scummy regardless". You addressed this during Day 2, and I'm fine with that. I don't think talking about your vote on SB during Day 1 will clear anything up.

As for a reason; ok.

• Rules don't determine that scum either will "Bus all teammates erry day" or "distance all teammates erry day". There's a gray zone, which town as well as scum can fit into. You could easily be acting in that gray zone, as to not look too "bussy" or too "distancy".

As for unvoting Paperblade, Elieson, please note that I unvoted Paperblade to vote Polydeuces in D2. I felt that Paperblade's frustration in D2 was real and his interactions with Manix at least seemed genuine enough, and turns out I was wrong. People make mistakes. I didn't vote AT ALL in D3 until I placed a vote on Weapons. And if you look back at the votals at the time I voted Weapons, Paperblade was already at deadline lynch and Refa was one vote away from deadline lynch. Paperblade would have gotten lynched with or without my vote.

Your Polyderps vote was rather meh and based on RoleSpec that the rest of us can't hope to possibly depend on without proof that you're a town!driver. Also, you just dropped your suspicions on Paperblade when you voted for Weapons. You never outlined why you thought he was suddenly not worth voting, and you were pretty hard on him, calling Paper out for poor activity post-SB's sub. Was Weapons really worse than Paper at the time of you voting for him? Because if he was, you dropped your suspicions rather suddenly.

Also, regarding when I "agreed" with his reaction test in D2, funny that you linked the posts where I was under the impression that his "results" were genuine. Therefore, NOT a bullshit reaction test.

Ok, what about the part where you mentioned Weapons exactly one time in between his confession to it being a test, and your deathtunnel vote on him? Where did you identify that his behavior all game was worse than Paper's (whom you constantly criticized)?

Being a dayvig doesn't automatically exclude one from being scum, and I think you of all people should know that. I'm not voting him because his gameplay is "annoying". I'm voting him because I can't see how he's being beneficial to town, and the vibe I got from his behavior was "scum trolling town".

When did I say that dayvig = town? ISO me. 2 posts ago, I just said exactly what you said. Also, while you find his behavior as "scum trolling town", did your reads on Euklyd not develop due to the reaction test? His Day-Vig nonsense was indeed, nonsense, but his reaction test wasn't useless, and therefore, he isn't trolling us as hard as you're making him out to. Correct me, I'd be down for that. I can't identify specific examples of scum-intent behind his weird posting style. I really can't.

[Sunwoo]

Of course I didn't mention it. No matter what I accuse you of, you'll either say "I was confused by the claim discrepencies" or "I found him scummy regardless". You addressed this during Day 2, and I'm fine with that. I don't think talking about your vote on SB during Day 1 will clear anything up.

As for a reason; ok.

• Rules don't determine that scum either will "Bus all teammates erry day" or "distance all teammates erry day". There's a gray zone, which town as well as scum can fit into. You could easily be acting in that gray zone, as to not look too "bussy" or too "distancy".

Look, if I were scum willing to bus Manix/SB then why would I NOT do the same with Paperblade? Especially when he was close to being lynched D2? Why not just try to lynch him all the way for the town credit in that case?

Your Polyderps vote was rather meh and based on RoleSpec that the rest of us can't hope to possibly depend on without proof that you're a town!driver. Also, you just dropped your suspicions on Paperblade when you voted for Weapons. You never outlined why you thought he was suddenly not worth voting, and you were pretty hard on him, calling Paper out for poor activity post-SB's sub. Was Weapons really worse than Paper at the time of you voting for him? Because if he was, you dropped your suspicions rather suddenly.

Do you have my role PM sitting in front of you? No? Then I'd kindly appreciate it if you don't call it "rolespec" that the "rest of us can't possibly depend on". I only know what my role PM tells me, and it was telling me that I'm not going to lynch Refa over anyone else.

Also, please learn to read. I did not "just drop" my suspicions on Paperblade when I voted for Weapons. I said that everything after his interactions with Manix was very "meh", which I admit is not a very good statement but it is FAR from "just dropping" my suspicions on him. Also, I "decided" that he was "suddenly not worth voting" because he already had enough votes for a deadline lynch. I figured that my vote would be more useful letting people know where my thoughts were going to be after D3.

Ok, what about the part where you mentioned Weapons exactly one time in between his confession to it being a test, and your deathtunnel vote on him? Where did you identify that his behavior all game was worse than Paper's (whom you constantly criticized)?

See above. Also, there is this thing called "rereading the thread". I saw that Paper was going to get lynched anyway because he had enough votes for a deadline lynch, and decided to get my thoughts for the next day clear.

When did I say that dayvig = town? ISO me. 2 posts ago, I just said exactly what you said. Also, while you find his behavior as "scum trolling town", did your reads on Euklyd not develop due to the reaction test? His Day-Vig nonsense was indeed, nonsense, but his reaction test wasn't useless, and therefore, he isn't trolling us as hard as you're making him out to. Correct me, I'd be down for that. I can't identify specific examples of scum-intent behind his weird posting style. I really can't.

Weapons also kept his reaction test on Euklyd up for quite some time, longer than what was probably necessary. He took his time telling us that "no, I'm serious, this isn't a reaction test I'm cop" after making the initial "Euklyd is scum" post, and took even longer to retract his "claim". Also, when people are asking you to claim your role because we're massclaiming our roles then stalling the way he did and not being straight with is role is helpful ... how? No, seriously, how is that helpful to town? I'm not even sure if I actually believe he's a dayvig right now.

Just because you can't see the scum intent in it, that doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong just because I can.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Idk, how Boron is WIFOM defending herself is boosting her scumminess.

[Sunwoo]

Like I said, if my flip will help you guys narrow down scum then go ahead and shoot me.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

graaaaaa

[euklyd]

Idk, how Boron is WIFOM defending herself is boosting her scumminess.

Somebody explain to me how WIFOM is scummy; I would think it's entirely null.

Okay, after much thought, I have other more important stuff to say.

I think I've finally figured out what's been pinging me as 'off', role-wise. Shinori's death on Night 1. I just don't understand how he could have been killed if there was a successful redirect that targeted him.

Since if Boron drove Shinori and Poly but was redirected to Refa, the targeting would have looked like:

• Shinori -> Refa -> Poly
• Refa -> Poly
• Poly -> Refa

and so Shinori could not possibly have been killed (unless I'm just completely misunderstanding something).

And not even my theoretical targeted redirector explains this, because Grassbridger (confirmed town) was also redirected.

The simplest solution by far is that Boron drove Poly and Shinori, the scum targeted Poly for their NK (and were redirected to Shinori), and Boron was just lying when she said she was redirected to Refa.

This would also explain why Paperblade would be so willing to hard defend Shinori, since he would know that they basically have a guaranteed kill on Shinori anyways.

This is the case I've been delaying a bit because I've been getting these strong townvibes from Boron the entire game, but after thinking about it I just see no way around this.

Is there any way to explain this situation? Is there something that I've missed?

Anyways, for now I'll also ##vote: Sangyul

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

fuck it

##Dayvig: Sangyul

[BBM]

As you were talking, Weapons pulled out a gun and pointed it at random people. "Okay guys, I've got a gun and I'm not afraid to use it!"

"A gun? Ha!" Boron spat at him. "You're bluffing! Sit back down or I'll punch you into a door!"

"Bluffing!?" Weapons asked, laughing. "Not this time!" He pointed it at Boron and pulled the trigger.

Boron has been killed! She was:

Dear Boron, you are the Driver, as claimed by Paperblade in Chilean Musician Mafia.

In Chilean, Paperblade was a Serial Killer Driver who claimed Driver. It worked for a while, but then he thought that I’d given up at the end even though I hadn’t, and was trying to trick the town. This caused him to give up as well, and confess that he was the SK. Basically, it’s all his fault for not understanding my master plan. Plus, since he’d spent the whole game using his role to protect Shinori, going as far as driving the mafia’s kill onto his own BPV, he didn’t think that he’d be able to get away with killing Shinori later. These faults of his have driven you here to seek atonement.

Therefore, every night, you may reply to your role PM with <Night X: ##Drive USER1 and USER2>. Everything targeting USER1 will instead target USER2, and everything targeting USER2 will instead target USER1.

You are allied with the Failed Claims. You win when they are the only ones left.

With 7 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch at deadline and 4 to hammer. Phase ends on October 7th 9PM EDT (October 8th 1AM GMT). You have slightly under 14 hours left in the phase.

[Refa]

I've got four words for you.

What. the. hell. Weapons.

With that being said, rereading this day to see how my stance on Weapons stands.

The first post I can see talking about Boron's role (on this day, mind you) is this one from Euklyd;

Sangyul, would your role explain why Refa was redirected?

My guess as to what your role is would not explain that, so unless my guess is wrong (which is a definite possibility), either

• We're playing a game with two redirectors AND Sangyul's role
• We're playing a game with a mass-redirector
• One (or both, I guess) Sangyul or Refa is lying

Or of course my guess is wrong.

I'm not sure what a mass-redirector is, so I'll ignore that possibility for the time being (can anyone else explain to me what this is?). One would think that since Boron flipped town, there is a slim chance that she was lying about her results. However, it's feasible that one would do so to prevent a mislynch; it certainly would make more sense than having such a vast number of redirecting roles. Whether or not you believe that I am lying about being redirected is up to you, but from MPOV that's not a possibility. Regardless, one can't discount the possibility of multiple redirectors.

Then we head for this;

Before I claim, who wants to guess my role?

Weapon's guessing game....I don't believe this is really a scum tell, but it's certainly anti town behavior; precious time that could have been used to scumhunt was instead wasted on Weapon's waffling. Just something to keep in mind for later on.

##Shoot: Bluedoom

And then he does this. Even if in jest, pretending to shoot a townie that I got an INNO on is rather suspect; unlike his actions with Euklyd earlier, this can't simply be chalked up to a reaction test to see whether or not the person appears to be scummy. There was literally no reason for him to do this; at best, it comes across as serious trolling, and at worst, pretty scummy.

... Does anyone else feel like lynching Weapons for being a complete troll? I mean, by refusing to seriously claim or stop joking around when multiple people are asking him to contribute he's stalling us getting anywhere, and he's just reading scum trolling the game right now.

I'd just like to note that Boron was the first person to seriously suspect Weapons (at least on this day). Of course, Marth and me suspected him too, but shooting an INNO or a cop would look rather bad; considering he did end up shooting Boron with his Day-Vig (and she flipped town), and you can see that Weapons is starting to look more and more scummy.

Being a dayvig doesn't automatically exclude one from being scum, and I think you of all people should know that. I'm not voting him because his gameplay is "annoying". I'm voting him because I can't see how he's being beneficial to town, and the vibe I got from his behavior was "scum trolling town".

If Weapons wants to dayvig someone before the end of this phase, I'll happily volunteer if the rest of town can promise me that my flip will actually help them find scum and clear up whatever is going on. Either way, I'm not lynching Marth or Psych, and I'd be fine with lynching you, Elieson, since you're confirmed not-town with an SK around.

Finally, in this post Boron really seals the deal. First she mentions that day-vig can be scum, and then basically gives Weapons a free pass to kill her. If Weapons was scum, this would basically allow for him to remove a threat while appearing to be just "following the advice of a townie". Obviously, I don't like this.

So my vote is staying where it is. As things stand now, Weapons is the one whom I believe most likely to be scum.

[Psych]

The only problem is that scum with a dayvig is incredibly powerful and almost broken.

Weapons would have to be third party and I'm still in the camp where I believe Elie is the only one.

Whatever he did though is just

ugh I have no words

[Refa]

The only problem is that scum with a dayvig is incredibly powerful and almost broken.

That's true, but I'm inclined to believe it's a one shot role since he hadn't used it beforehand.

[Psych]

most dayvigs are one shot and the only one I can think of that might not be was Shining Force mafia, but that was just a 2-shot vig who could shoot whenever

also I don't remember what game weapons claimed yet

[Refa]

also I don't remember what game weapons claimed yet

he claimed that his role didn't mention a specific game, since it was referencing all of the times that prims has claimed dayvig.

[Bluedoom]

Wel you proved your role and you being scum with that role would be OP, but WHY DIDN'T YOU VIG ELIESON?

##Unvote ##Vote: Elieson

You could've like, at least vigged Euklyd you know.

Also gg guys this is why we finish the lynch at this stage instead of waiting and self-doubting for life, but we're screwing the third party over and chances are I'm not living to see another day, do what you like.

[Elieson]

That was unexpected, I seriously had boron placed highly on my scumdar. While I still don't necessarily find weapons to be scum (see Psych/Chilean mafia for similar activity), there is stil a possibility of him being SK with a DayVig tacked on. I'm also still suspect of Scorri (tho rolespec is the primary case, and considering she has been voting for scum all game, she may hve just luckily bought herself a ton of time while bussing the shit out of her team).

Though weapons isn't looking too townie. I can't see a town DayVig THAT EAGER to get rid such a powerful role. Sure by a lynch I could see consideration, but not with a day shot.

##Vote weapons

[scorri]

Day1

Grassbridger (1): Bearclaw

SB (7): Boron, Euklyd, Kirsche, Scorri, Weapons, Grassbridger, Elieson

Scorri (6): Eclipse, Refa, Bizz, Paperblade, Psych, Shinori

Euklyd (1): SB

Day2

Paperblade (3): Scorri, Elieson, Polydeuces

Polydeuces (5): Refa, Grassbridger, Boron, Eclipse, Bizz

Refa (3): Psych, Weapons, Paperblade

Day3

Paperblade (6): Elieson, Eclipse, Scorri, Euklyd, Psych, Refa

Refa (3): Weapons, Paperblade, Marth

Weapons (1): Boron

I think at this point getting rid of the ITP is the best way to do this. It's the safest bet and with no real understanding of what's happening, better to go with a safe flip and wait for night reads than to risk another mislynch.

##Vote:Elieson

[Psych]

he claimed that his role didn't mention a specific game, since it was referencing all of the times that prims has claimed dayvig.

that sounds like shit

##Vote Weapons

[Psych]

but ugh he at least is a day vig so I don't know whether to believe weapons is town because no one would give mafia a day vig or to lynch elie because there's a chance he could be lying