Semi-Precious Mafia - Mafia wins!

[BBM]

This might be an issue of semantics, but so far on SF I've seen no one confuse an opinion on a wagonee with an opinion on the wagon. The former was what I did, the latter is when you attack/support the people on the wagon. W/e.

I'm attacking you for it because it looked like you picked up a scumread and dropped it later for no reason. That seemed fishy.

If you didn't like Scorri mainly for her overdefensiveness, then:

Bold: Why was that a counter to my opinion?

Italics:Does not say as much about your opinion of Scorri as the the one in bold.

Remember that prior to this you didn't elaborate on why you agreed with the scorri wagon.

The part about her kirsche vote is good though.

The part in the bold is a counter to your opinion because your opinion was that her not laying down a vote wasn't scummy, and I corrected it saying the reason that was closest to what you were saying. I don't understand why the italics is any less indicative of my opinion than the bold. If I'm asking you to explain more why defensiveness is a nulltell, it show follow that I don't see it as a nulltell, and as I was voting Scorri at the time, it's clear that I saw it as a scumtell.

I suppose I didn't clarify earlier exactly why I agreed with the wagon.

[Wayward Winds]

Hold on a sec, did Serenes just post an unfinished post of mine? I think it did... Anyway, the missing part was about two sentences;

...and the 'What the heck is Wayward Winds doing???

Uh, Refa? I appreciate the 'leaning Town' read... but I don't count a post a page (ish) 'active'. Sure it's more than Scorri, but...

...And the bold/italic tags went cuckoo as well. Oh well. I'll post a bit more once I'm into an area with better reception.

[Bard]

BBM, surely you can also respond to the post right above that one, right? :)

[Bluedoom]

Hmmm, i was of the opinion that when you countered my opinion you had posted what you thought was most scummy about scorri but apparently that's not the case, rather it was a correction of that statement.

Otherwise your opinions have been consistent so not much more to add.

[scorri]

She says that there's nothing scummy about using meta after expressing a dislike of it in past games, but that's untrue. Had the basis for Kirsche's vote been true (and if I were unbiased), I would have considered it to be an okay vote. As an analogy, someone suddenly voting someone for a meta reason after saying meta is bad in previous games would be sort of like Scorri voting someone for not making an RVS vote, when she doesn't like RVS much either. Playstyles can change, but not that drastically that quickly, and especially not for people who've played enough games to be somewhat set in their playing style.

... But my point was that kirsche's vote was unfounded because you've used meta in the past. In fact, I never said there's nothing scummy about using meta. I just said that his vote was based off of something that wasn't true.

No but really, BBM does use meta before and even if he doesn't, a change in play does not scum make, especially if that behavior hasn't been seen in scum!BBM before. A townread on someone D1 is not a be all end all and you claiming that he's just handwaving things is a generalization in and of itself.

Like... my point with the second bit was that someone suddenly doing something that someone claims to have never seen them do before is not scummy per say. They could just be trying something new. If the thing (in this case using meta) has never been seen before in that player's style as town or as scum, it can't be determined if that behavior is scummy or towny. And whether or not I like meta didn't apply here because Kirsche's logic (to me) was not solid and therefore felt like grasping.

scorri- I think her reaction at the beginning was a null tell, and while I don't like her reasoning behind her recent vote on BBM, I'm not sure if it's because she's necessarily scum

Never voted BBM, though seriously considering changing that...

I'll reread more later because ~tired~. BBM's response is good, Refa is good, Scorri is unchanged. "Oh I'm sorry I was defensive but here's my opinion on Bear" is not really a good response. Actually there was like 1 person voting Bear at the time so "blowing it out of proportion" is wrong. Looks like padding to make it seem like she's saying more than she has.

The point wasn't even the number of people voting Bear, it was the number of people going "WOW BEAR SO SCUMMY, TOTALLY WANT TO SEE HIM LYNCHED AT SOME POINT OR SHOT" I think that the number of people that got a scum read on Bear just because he posted to say he wouldn't be around was out of proportion and don't really see any reason to change that belief.

[Refa]

Never voted BBM, though seriously considering changing that...

*facepalm* Just...ignore that. I was more referring to your arguments against BBM, but yeah, should've actually ISO'd.

[Refa]

Er, about. Whatever.

[BBM]

Yeah, I was going to, but then I decided to go the washroom and completely forgot about it for two hours (blame SB). Whoops. I was just going to state that your explanation was valid.

@Scorri- Personally I don't think that voting someone off something you didn't understand or remember correctly is scummy, if you fix it once you're corrected. So I don't really think that his vote just being untrue is scummy. Also, I never said that you said that there's nothing scummy about using meta. I said that you said that there's nothing scummy about using meta after saying meta is bad in previous games

Wow that last sentence was confusing.

Why am I scummy?

[Refa]

Because your member name has Marshmallow in it. As we all know, that's pretty much the same as Marshmellow, which are extremely fluffy. Ergo, you are scummy because scum have a lot of fluff in their posts.

[Refa]

Hold on a sec, did Serenes just post an unfinished post of mine? I think it did... Anyway, the missing part was about two sentences;

...And the bold/italic tags went cuckoo as well. Oh well. I'll post a bit more once I'm into an area with better reception.

Well, in your case it's more quality VS quantity. Quantity wise, you have roughly around the same posts as say, bearclaw, but your posts are a lot more detailed, containing more reads and such, which is why I put you as leaning town.

There's something a little strange (like, not scummy, just...strange) when I have to explain my town reads, but not my scum reads.

[charlie_]

A few hours ended up being longer than expected. I got to #109 and then stopped for like... 10 hours. But meh. Summing up reads quickly.

Wayward looks less like newb town than I thought and just general newb. I thought that he would just sit back and coast at first, but now I kind of see his actions as scummy. He looks really defensive in places with stuff like "let's see how much flak I attract for this one" and when he said to Polydeuces to "do a bit of scum hunting elsewhere or I’m shifting my vote to you" is also pretty bad along with him having a very weak opinion on Polydeuces reaction to it.

DIdn't like scorri's earlygame defensiveness, but I agree with her kirsche vote and feel a little bit better about her than I did before. Would still lynch, but I feel like there's bigger fish to fry.

kirsche's vote on BBM was bad for reasons that scorri already explained. I feel like kirsche has been really under the radar and his play's been weak and lazy. Not really enough to propel him over some others, but still.

Polydeuce's early posts were dumbtelling instead of scumtelling, but his empty unvote post where he pretty much discredits all of his own reads, says that DA BEAR isn't around enough to pressure but then votes him after more people call him out on it, which was a pretty bad reaction. He also hasn't explained his read on DA BEAR. I feel like most of this stuff about Polydeuces has been beaten to death though. Would lynch here.

Already said that I didn't like Refa due to him replacing early scumhunting with short questions and responses that say you do or don't disagree. Also his comment about me tunnelling on scorri with two posts on her is funny, and he says that I spend more time talking about my opinion on himself and scorri than coming up with scumreads, when those are scumreads. I've just focused on my more prominent ones, and I've said things about other players as well. Also him voting Polydeuces for dumbtelling was bad.

DA BEAR really should've posted content while he was around. I feel like he's more vigworthy, as a lynch won't bring much in the way of interactions. I'm kind of annoyed that he hasn't come back by now.

Shin feels like he voteparked on DA BEAR for way too long for his RVS vote, and doesn't really have opinions on a lot of other people aside from Polydeuces who's pretty much the leading wagon.

As for Marth, I'm not too fond of how he spends a while seemingly defending scorri. It's bad but I don't get a scumread from it, so I dunno?

I feel like I have reasons to distrust more or less the entire game to varying extents :/

What are votes like right now?

[Wayward Winds]

...I know it's Eclipse's job, but we haven't had a vote tally for about 34 hours. Thought it mught be a good idea to provide updated figures given that D1 ends in about 7 hours., and she's told us only one 'no-lynch' before universal loss.

Bearclaw (2): Wayward Winds, Polydeuces

Polydeuces (4): Refa, Marth, Bard, Shin

Refa (1): SB

scorri (2): BBM, Kirsche

Shin (1): Bearclaw

Kirsche (1): Scorri

...I think that's right.

Anyway, I'm a little short on other targets at the moment. I'm giving Poly another couple of hours ('till midnight local time) to better explain his position, otherwise I'll shift my vote to him prior to hitting the sack tonight, but that doesn't mean Bearclaw's off the hook by a long shot. At the moment Poly seems to be playing purely defensively, with no real effort to shake more info out of others.

That said, I still don't trust Bear though my reasons remain constant. No effort since the RVS ended, which just doesn't ring true for a Town aligned player. Although, maybe there's Independants mixed in as well, what do I know?

Just for the record, you don't have to go easy on me for being a newbie. If I was scum, being a newbie would make no difference to Town's objective - you'd still have to take me out. I'm not saying I want to be lynched, but...

[BBM]

MOD META^TM but I don't think that Eclipse would make WW scum in his first game.

SB what do you think of what I said about Scorri's Kirsche vote?

[Da Bear]

posting to tell you all I'm here and will be getting some thought up asap

[eclipse]

Geez, I just got back home. Lemme make sure those votals make sense.

[Wayward Winds]

>Good, come on Bearclaw! Prove that my current plans to shift to Poly are the right way to go!

>Mod meta? That sounds reliable... (cough, cough)

>No offence SB, but part of the comments on me were a little close to nitpicking. I often embellish posts with comments like that right across the site. Comes from having low self esteem. As for my telling Poly to scum hunt elsewhere, if you check back I also stated that I wasn't telling him to stop suspecting me, just that I'm just one player and there's going to be at least three mafia.

Coasting isn't going to help root out scum either. Besides, with Bear, Scorri and Poly all having varying levels of inactivity, do we really need another player 'coasting'?

Can't fault your paranoia though.

[eclipse]

Busy host is lazy. . .wait, that doesn't make sense.

Windy counted right.

Seven hours remain. It takes 4 to lynch, and 6 to hammer.

[Da Bear]

Reasons post in a sec but wayward asked me too so...

Poly is my leading scumread. Otherwise I'm not getting a whole lot of reads other than slight townreads on Bard and Wayward.

[Da Bear]

Also

>Mod meta? That sounds reliable... (cough, cough)

I agree with you here. BBM deciding to say that implies that he will treat you as more likely town than other people in this game.

I don't think it's scummy but I think it's bad reasoning.

[Da Bear]

I'm building my post now but I would like to ask Wayward to not vote poly yet because I prob would miss it and hammer early (not sure how much more can be gotten from this phase but I want to see...)

[BBM]

Shit I thought phase ended tomorrow. Poly should claim I guess.

As I've said, I don't really want to lynch him. Scorri would be my #1 choice, followed by Bearclaw if I had to, since he hasn't really done anything. Of course, since he hasn't done much, it'd be a pretty shitty lynch in terms of associative reads if he flipped town.

Someone can probably back me up on at least one instance of Eclipse purposely assigning a new player to town, as well as stating that she doesn't think it's fair for somebody to be scum without some experience of being town first.

[Da Bear]

all quotes are poly's

Wayward's either the most town scum I've ever seen, or a ridiculous tryhard. Right now, I'm willing to bet the latter, but I'm not chancing it on D1.

##Unvote
##Lynch: Wayward

(I know this post has been beaten to death, I will be brief) This is really bad reasoning... I'm seeing it as scummy. Voting someone after saying you're townreading them isn't exactly a good idea.

He could be doing all that to mask being scum. I've seen a couple of people be ultra-aggressive in scum-hunts that turn out to be scum themselves, so it's not out of the question.

Wayward was trying really hard, not being aggressive. There's a difference.

That said, he could just be playing ultra-aggressive because he doesn't know anything to the contrary that would have him show town in order to avoid a mislynch on himself. I'm not sure, but then again I'm not picking up any major scumreads yet. Scorri's kinda scummy, but not enough to make me jump on the idea lynching him.

Waffling.... it's so here. So basically, at this point, you think Wayward is townie...but scummy and are voting him and you also think that Scorri is scummy, but only kind of...

Show some commitment man.

Either way, I'm not too convinced of anyone being terribly scummy, but I feel like his RVS reads seemed a bit off in terms of reasoning to me.

…But you just spent two posts giving reasons that Wayward is scummy…

Bear does seem like the most obvious of the potential scum right now, but part of me wonders if he's just playing that to try and lower the scum's guard so that they can get away with more thinking they'll be good until the Night phase.

What.

I seriously don’t understand… I had rl issues… when you said earlier…

I'll never get how being busy IRL automatically makes you a target, and the people who figure that's the case always baffle me.

So why are you now saying it makes me scummy?

And what does your second reason even mean?



Then he just says he no longer thinks that WW is scum and votes me for that reasoning that seems kind of contradictory to me.

##Unvote
##Vote: Polydeuces

[Da Bear]

and then it bit off the last part of my post...

I basically said that I think he's waffling a lot more than he should and seems to be having trouble getting a good read either way and then votes me for faulty reasoning.

[Da Bear]

and then it bit off the last part of my post...

I basically said that I think he's waffling a lot more than he should and seems to be having trouble getting a good read either way and then votes me with faulty reasoning.

as far as I can see anyway.

[Wayward Winds]

I'm building my post now but I would like to ask Wayward to not vote poly yet because I prob would miss it and hammer early (not sure how much more can be gotten from this phase but I want to see...)

...I guess Poly's in line for a lynch with current numbers anyway, I don't need to push. But as it is now 15 min to midnight, and I won't be able to get online between midnight and about 9am (by which time it'll be Night phase), time's running out. I suppose if I do miss changing over then the lynch will still likely happen, but Poly's got another 5 or so hours to explain himself.

I would ask why you don't seem to be particularly desperate for me to shift my vote from you yet, but you are at two votes currently; you're comparatively safe. Unless things shift drastically anyway.