Changing the DS games for the better!

[commonguard]

That picture doesn't have levels/stats/difficulty; thus, I have no idea what to think of it.

It's the same screenshot I have in my H3 LTC topic. It's a triple B supported (Marth, MU, Palla) Catria vs a 20 SPD boss on a gate. She's technically using a +5 Hit forge but still, 100% hit rates vs bosses shouldn't exist without Lightsphere.

[PKL]

Sorry about that. Yesterday was quite the busy day! I'm gonna add the poll now. What other gameplay changes would you like before we move on? Class base changes, their weapon rank, weapon buffs/nerfs, etc. Anything you come up with, suggest it.

[Vennobennu]

Archers could use some sort of stat advantage (aside from defence) over Hunters so that they have a reason for existing. Maybe give them higher Strength and Skill than Hunters for Dracoknight OHKOing goodness.

Warriors are also pretty underpowered compared to their competitors - Heroes and Berserkers have higher base and max Speed, Generals have higher base Defence, Dracoknights have higher Defence and a large Move advantage. Maybe give Warriors higher base Defence and Skill, and a 26 Speed cap? Heroes could probably have a 27 Speed cap too if their bases were toned down slightly.

Broadly in Fe11, there should be more variety in classes, and better offensive stats for enemies in the mid-to-lategame.

[TheBigDipper]

Myrmidons get a bit more base Skill and Spd? Their bases only win Mercenaries by like, a few points in Skill and Spd, not worth the HP, Str and Def disadvantage.

Also nerf all weapons. -5 or 10 hit because you hit so frequently, and with the new RNG generator, you'll rarely miss.

Edited November 9, 2013 by TheBigDipper

[Vennobennu]

That reminds me, how strong do the enemy's forges get in H5 and Maniac/Lunatic? Don't lategame FE12 Lunatic forges get into +3Mt, +25Hit or something like that?

Edited November 9, 2013 by Vennobennu

[dondon151]

Also nerf all weapons. -5 or 10 hit because you hit so frequently, and with the new RNG generator, you'll rarely miss.

lol this is so not true, and it's such a terrible idea anyway that i'm not sure if you're joking.

[TheBigDipper]

lol this is so not true, and it's such a terrible idea anyway that i'm not sure if you're joking.

I don't really know, but 75+ Hit with Hand Axes while using a low-level Fighter and not taking account of Weapon Triangle is pretty much OP.

[eclipse]

I don't really know, but 75+ Hit with Hand Axes while using a low-level Fighter and not taking account of Weapon Triangle is pretty much OP.

No, it's not. OP is forgeable Wing Spear. Accurate Hand Axes means that axes went from mediocre to pretty good.

[shadykid]

EDIT: Shinpichu- It still does ridiculous stuff in the GBA games, you just need a mag stat. Making it come later is a thing though.

yeah.....no magic user has enough magic to pull GBA warps in FE11

imagine if GBA warp existed in Awakening

[Irysa]

If it was FE6 warp it would be fine since thats 8 + Mag/2 instead of Mag/2 iirc.

Give warriors instant D bows would help them a bit. Maybe Horsemen get instant C, then the class set in SD is more balanced to set 2?

BTW another idea about warp, how about 1 warp use PER MAP? Warp is untouched otherwise but you may only warp once per map.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Irysa

[eclipse]

If it was FE6 warp it would be fine since thats 8 + Mag/2 instead of Mag/2 iirc.

Give warriors instant D bows would help them a bit. Maybe Horsemen get instant C, then the class set in SD is more balanced to set 2?

BTW another idea about warp, how about 1 warp use PER MAP? Warp is untouched otherwise but you may only warp once per map.

You'd run out of chapters before Warp uses with that system.

[Irysa]

There are a total of 28 chapters from chapter 3 on (if you count gaidens) and there are IIRC a maximum of 4 warp staves per game (1 is in a gaiden). not counting hammerne, which is actually exactly even. :V

If we discount all the gaidens then there are 23, so its possible to use all your warp staves up (again discounting hammerne)

Edited November 9, 2013 by Irysa

[dondon151]

I don't really know, but 75+ Hit with Hand Axes while using a low-level Fighter and not taking account of Weapon Triangle is pretty much OP.

and <75 hit is rage-inducingly annoying. i'm not even sure where you get 75+ hit from. hand axes have 60 base hit, bord is the only earlygame fighter with +hit from weapon rank, and he doesn't even come close to 75 hit unless he gets support bonuses.

[TheBigDipper]

and <75 hit is rage-inducingly annoying. i'm not even sure where you get 75+ hit from. hand axes have 60 base hit, bord is the only earlygame fighter with +hit from weapon rank, and he doesn't even come close to 75 hit unless he gets support bonuses.

Probably support I guess. I don't know one thing about supports, so I may accidentally placed him near supporters. Or my brain is messing up.

[eclipse]

Probably support I guess. I don't know one thing about supports, so I may accidentally placed him near supporters. Or my brain is messing up.

Supports take a while to kick in. Barst/Bord/Cord/Ogma won't see any improvement until Chapter 6.

[Dark Sage]

75% is generally not as reliable as we're lead to believe anyway. 75% is 87.75% true, which is a 12.25% chance of flubbing a hit, which doesn't seem like large chance of missing but it adds up over time.

[TheBigDipper]

Supports take a while to kick in. Barst/Bord/Cord/Ogma won't see any improvement until Chapter 6.

Well, chapter 6 to me is earlygame.

But seriously -5 Hit for all axes at least. Many other games had Axes with 70-ish Hit and this game had Irons, Silvers and Devils which are 80.

@Jack Frost

Still higher than the actual 75% of some other FEs.

Edited November 11, 2013 by TheBigDipper

[TheBigDipper]

Aaand this thread is dead for nearly a week.

[Irysa]

Fine, I'll try something!

Shadow Dragon Marth - besides being unable to do his job in h5 (idk, make the falchion give him +2 speed or something?) he doesnt seem that bad off

Barst - is fine, unlockable merged class sets would be cool

Bord - never used him because I looked at his speed growth and benched asap. fixing that would be cool.

Cord - higher axe rank

Ogma - is fineish, maybe needs marginally better base speed to handle some shit like the manakete boss in ch10(I think its 10, the one with jake) without being blessed, make heroes get d axes on promo maybe. Alternatively add the Longsword into the game for sword users.

Darros - I don't even know where to start. Just copy paste Dart into the game instead of him <_<

Castor - Is fine, could use a higher skill base and maybe higher hp growth but latter not that important.

Navarre - needs some of his stats boosted depending on what you want you want to make him decent at. he needs more speed/skill to be able to reclass into cav effectively for more str, and needs more str to be a myrmidon. Longsword existing would help a lot.

Lena - seems fine really. she obsoletes some other healers but I don't see that as HER problem. Buff her hp growth a bit. MAYBE put mag/speed/skill to 30%.

Julian - I tried to turn him into a combat unit but even with decent growth and blessed levels he's still remarkably hard to raise in H5 (although he's been marginally useful once or twice since he doesnt get doubled by a few enemies like thieves with some levels, which is nice). I don't think he needs to be a combat unit to do his job though, but a better sword rank and a longsword existing would help, and maybe +1/2 on his str/hp base.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Irysa

[eclipse]

-> Lena obsoletes other healers

-> Buff Lena

OKAY.

Back on-topic. . .

- Cord can keep his awful axe rank; he's a prime candidate to reclass, anyway

- Darros could probably use +2 Str and +1 Spd, so he's not doubled by everything with his default weapon

- Navarre's class is naturally base speedy, so I'd offset that with a +10% Spd growth instead (it makes his growths slightly inferior to the Christmas Cavs)

- +1 to Julian's base Str so he's not weighed down by an Iron Sword

[dondon151]

But seriously -5 Hit for all axes at least. Many other games had Axes with 70-ish Hit and this game had Irons, Silvers and Devils which are 80.

yeah and in those games, players got more hit from skl and luk

-5 hit is such a bad idea. if anything, i would much rather push for +5 hit.

[TheBigDipper]

Maybe I didn't play much of anything higher than H3 to see if the nerf makes axes unusable.

[dondon151]

it won't make them unusable, it'll just make everything way more infuriating, especially since on H5, a miss equals a death and/or a reset.

[Vennobennu]

Earlygame Hand Axe hitrates are in the 55-65 range on H5 iirc. Not something that needs to be reduced even further!

[PKL]

I am so sorry everyone. My previous comp finally died (im almost glad) and so I was left without comp for nearly a week. That's why u haven't seen me around updating stuff. Good news though: I'll update this now. It seems warp has been nerfed to half mag range.

Next:

FE11 *How to make Falchion THE way to kill Medeus.

Both *Class changes: Hunters vs Archers. Knights vs...everything. Class Set A vs Class Set B. Class Growths. Class Bases. Mage Bases. Stuff like that.

FE11 *Gaidens changed? Early boss stats nerfed heavily? Javelins/Hand Axes MT nerf ala 12? Enemy def drop?

Characters:

Discuss changes on FE11's- Marth (again), Cord, Bord, Castor, Darros, Julian, Lena, Matthis, Navarre

taking into consideration the following:

1. Gameplay changes can affect previously established balance.

2. We don't want to make good characters bad. Instead rebalancing the bad to be good. Nerfs shouldn't be drastic enough that the previous good character is now bad or completely obsoleted.

3. Don't fix what isn't broken.

4. Don't let bias get in the way.

And changes on FE12's- Warren, Linde, Palla, Julian, Bord, Cord, Wrys (rejoin), Yubello, Yumina, Sirius, Ogma(rejoin)